HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-21-2004
PROCEEDINGS OF THE MOUNDS VIEW PLANNING COMMISSION
CITY OF MOUNDS VIEW
RAMSEY COUNTY, MINNESOTA
Regular Meeting
April 21, 2004
Mounds View City Hall
2401 Highway 10, Mounds View, MN 55112
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1. Call to Order
The meeting was called to order by Chair Stevenson at 7:00 p.m., April 21, 2004.
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2. Roll Call
Members Present: Commissioners Miller, Stevenson, Song, Hegland, Zwirn and Johnson
Members Absent: Scotch (excused)
Also Present: Community Development Director Ericson and Planner Prososki
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Index to Minutes Page
Planning Case MA04-001 2
Hidden Hollow Preliminary Plat
Procraft Development
Planning Case VR04-002 11
7717 Long Lake Road The Phoenix Residence, Inc.
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3. Approve Minutes
a. March 17, 2004
MOTION/SECOND: Johnson/Miller. To Approve the Planning Commission Minutes for
March 17, 2004 as Presented.
Ayes – 5 Nays – 0 Motion carried.
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Mounds View Planning Commission April 21, 2004
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4. Citizens Requests and Comments on Items Not on the Agenda
None.
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5. Planning Case MA04-001
Community Development Director Ericson indicated that this item is a public hearing and
consideration of the preliminary plat for the Hidden Hollow major subdivision. He then
explained that the City and the development team have been working on this project for a year
and a half.
Director Ericson indicated that the site in question is 9.36 acres south of H2 adjacent to the
western City limits and the proposal is for a 17 lot major subdivision for single family residential
homes.
Director Ericson indicated that there would be 4 homes within this area that remain after the plat
and then pointed them out on the map.
Director Ericson explained that the existing pond would be reworked to allow for better drainage
for water off of H2 and the entire development.
Commissioner Song arrived at 7:06 p.m.
Director Ericson indicated that the lots would range in size from 11,600 square feet up to 29,000
square feet. He then said that the City and the developer had originally discussed vacating the
Pleasant View Drive right of way but the City has decided to protect the existing utilities and not
vacate the right of way.
Director Ericson reviewed the storm water management plan for the development and noted that
all drainage will be handled on site.
Director Ericson indicated that Rice Creek Watershed District would review the site and if there
is any question on the ponding will make a requirement for re-sizing, but the City is reasonably
confident that the drainage plan as presented will be acceptable to Rice Creek.
Director Ericson indicated there is only one street and it is to be named Hidden Hollow Court
and it will satisfy City requirements for streets.
Director Ericson indicated that the City does not anticipate an issue with traffic for this
development.
Director Ericson indicated that the development was renamed from The Woods of Mounds View
because a significant number of trees will be removed due to the balancing of soils and the
amount of grading that needs to be done on the site.
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Director Ericson indicated that as a condition of approval, the developer will be required to
replant trees at two trees per each front yard.
Director Ericson indicated the soils have been reviewed through soil borings and they are
suitable for development with a foot or two of organic soil down to four feet in some places. He
then said that the City has a high water table but with the soil balancing on site all of the
basements of the new homes would be above the water table. He further commented that the
City’s engineers are reviewing the plan to make sure there are no issues with it.
Director Ericson indicated this has been a project that has been in the works for years and he
thanked residents that have been involved with the project and invited anyone interested to voice
concerns and ask questions as the City wants to make sure that all concerns are addressed.
Director Ericson indicated there would be another public hearing before Council to review the
same preliminary plat with any changes that have occurred through the Planning Commission
recommendation.
Chair Stevenson opened the public hearing at 7:19 p.m.
David Veenstra of 3000 County Road H2 asked why the pond is being deepened and the trees
destroyed to make a second pond.
Director Ericson indicated the pond is being expanded to address runoff from H2 and to handle
runoff from the site itself. He then explained that the water is captured by catch basins and piped
through the development to the first pond to allow for solids to settle out before it flows through
to the next pond.
Director Ericson indicated that while there will be trees lost on the property, the determination
was made to save the trees on either side of the pond to screen it from adjacent properties and
that is why the pond was elongated rather than widened.
Mr. Veenstra said he feels the City is destroying a beautiful woods and losing all of the filtration
that the trees provide and he is sick about it. He then said he thinks it is an environmental
disaster and does not think you get any better ground water this way because trees do a better
job. He further said he thinks this is insane.
Mr. Veenstra asked how power would be brought to his property.
Gary Nordness, representing ProCraft, or, member of development team, indicated that they will
be working with Xcel Energy on how to place the power and then said that it would be up to Mr.
Veenstra whether he wants his power to remain on the pole or be run underground.
Mr. Veenstra asked why he was never approached by the developer on this matter.
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Mr. Nordness explained that they were waiting to finalize the plans before meeting with Mr.
Veenstra.
Mr. Veenstra asked why he was never asked whether he wanted to sell out.
Darren Sylvander, representing ProCraft Homes, explained that Mr. Veenstra did not have land
available behind his house that they could have purchased. He further explained that Mr.
Veenstra’s home is too nice to purchase and knock down making it not cost effective to add his
property to the project. He also indicated that information was provided about the potential
development to Mr. Veenstra when the project began.
Mr. Veenstra indicated he did receive the paper but was never approached to discuss it. He then
said he feels this will destroy a beautiful environment and be an absolute disaster.
Gary Mann of 3009 Wooddale Drive asked what the new height of the land would be.
Director Ericson reviewed the plan and indicated the area of substantial elevation change would
be along the newly created road but the backyards would remain about the same.
Mr. Mann asked whether the City has considered a “ghost plan” and the potential impact of this
development on the surrounding lots and their potential for future development.
A resident commented that he had asked the Mayor to do that and it has not happened. He then
said their concern is to make this an integrated plan that does not limit development potential for
the residents to the south of this area.
Mr. Mann commented that the wetland to the south of this property has been filled and asked
how that would affect the neighbors for future development.
Director Ericson indicated that the wetland stays a wetland as delineated but, with development,
there are ways to work with that and fill it and provide additional wetland in other areas. He then
said that the City has been informed of potential issues with the owner of the property to the
south and filling of the wetlands. He further commented that there remain options for
development of the properties to the south.
Mr. Mann asked what the status is of the development of the Brennan property because he is
concerned about finalizing this development and limiting potential development options for the
neighbors to the south.
Director Ericson indicated that there is nothing pending but he has spoken with Mr. Brennan
about his plans and been told he is not sure what he wants to do or when. He then said that the
City communicated with him information about the fill and the issue with the wetlands in an
effort to bring him into this but he was not interested in having a soil analysis done when the
borings for this project were done. He further commented that all the City can do is address the
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issues with regard to the Hidden Hollow plat but the City is aware of issues with the land to the
south.
Commissioner Johnson asked if someone to the south has filled wetlands without proper
procedures.
Director Ericson said that there has been fill brought onto the property and that has been a long-
standing practice at the property prior to Mr. Brennan owning it. He then said that City Public
Works had an agreement with the prior owner for dumping street sweepings. He further
commented that he has been told that it may not be good fill and may have to be hauled out.
Commissioner Johnson asked if anyone was notified about the fill brought in there.
Director Ericson indicated that communication has been made but the issue is that it does not
show up on the City’s wetland maps otherwise the City would not have authorized having fill
brought out there. He then said that he is not clear on what was brought out there but now they
are aware that there is a situation that will need to be addressed.
Commissioner Johnson asked if Rice Creek knows about it.
Mr. Mann indicated the neighbors notified them and brought them out a year or so ago and Barb
Haake and the head engineer for Rice Creek commented that it was too late. He then said that he
is concerned that the actions of that property owner and the decisions made by the City on this
development will adversely affect the ability of the neighbors to the south to develop their
properties.
A resident in the audience commented that filling the wetland can affect the flow of water and
adversely affect the neighbors.
Chair Stevenson explained that water does not flow in that direction.
Director Ericson indicated that Rice Creek will be looking at the integrity of that wetland and
what impact this development will have on it.
A resident in the audience indicated he is concerned about flooding to his property.
Director Ericson explained there would be no flow to the south because the elevations are such
that any overflow goes to the storm sewer that is already there. He then said that the
development is designed to make sure the water stays on the site.
Commissioner Zwirn indicated that when this was initially discussed, there was discussion of
natural flow of water from north to south but then during the presentation it was said that water
would be pumped up to the north to the ponding area. He then asked for further clarification.
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Director Ericson explained that the street elevates slightly as it goes toward the cul-de-sac so that
the water flows back toward H2 and is captured in the catch basin and the pipes are tilted
downhill to cut through the development and end up at the pond on the northeast corner.
Commissioner Zwirn asked for clarification on whether the identified wetlands in Lots 9 and 10
will be protected and secured with fencing.
Director Ericson indicated that those areas would be protected. He then indicated that Rice
Creek Watershed District has requirements for protecting a wetland with silt fencing and
setbacks to protect the wetland. He further commented that the City, residents and Rice Creek
would be keeping an eye on this to make sure the wetlands are protected.
Commissioner Zwirn asked whether the wetlands show up at Rice Creek.
Director Ericson indicated he is not sure what Rice Creek has for an inventory.
Mr. Nordness indicated that they had a wetland delineation study done on the property and it is
identified in green on the map. He then said there is a separate study that they did for the City to
delineate and identify where they were.
Commissioner Zwirn commented that it has been identified as a wetland for a number of years
and the fact that someone took it upon themselves to fill it concerns him.
Mr. Nordness indicated he is not sure how far they went with the delineation but the dotted area
outside of the plat is definitely wetland.
Commissioner Zwirn commented that anything done in that area will have an impact on people
to the south or southeast.
Mr. Nordness indicated that nothing will drain into the wetland after the development because
they are protecting that wetland.
Commissioner Hegland asked if the delineation is after the fill was brought in.
Director Ericson indicated the delineation did not extend all the way into the other property but
did go to the south to a certain point.
Mr. Nordness commented that the identifying of the wetlands was based on FEMA maps and the
actual delineation was done based on Sunde Engineering and an outside engineer. He then said
he does not know how far south they went but the FEMA map shows it distinctly and that is why
the delineation was done.
Commissioner Zwirn asked whether there is any kind of protection or assurance that the
developer will truly work to save all trees possible, other than a comment that they will do so.
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He then said that a carte blanche to cutting down trees does not appeal to him and he would like
a way to assure that as many are saved as possible.
Director Ericson indicated the City asked that all trees larger than a sapling and other than brush
or scrub trees be marked. He then said that any trees located where the elevation remains
essentially the same after the soil correction would most likely remain but those that are located
where the elevation is changed will be removed. He further commented that the City does not
have a tree preservation ordinance but is working with the developer to save as many as possible
and that is evident in that the developer has agreed to save trees on the periphery of the project.
Commissioner Miller indicated the Resolution states that the developer shall plant two trees and
sod the front yards.
Director Ericson explained that a condition of obtaining the certificate of occupancy would be
that the sod and two trees be planted.
Director Ericson indicated that the Resolution states that trees shall be preserved wherever
possible but there is no real protection should Procraft clear cut the site. He then said that
Procraft has taken the position that trees add value to the project and they would like to save as
many as possible.
Commissioner Johnson asked if the trees to be replanted are of a minimum size.
Director Ericson indicated that the City Forester would be consulted as to the type of tree and
there is usually a minimum size requirement.
Chair Stevenson commented that the City could include in the Resolution a specific size for the
trees and that type is to be determined by the Forester.
Mr. Nordness indicated that the preliminary development agreement and the revised
development agreement currently being negotiated states the number of trees and the minimum
size of one and a half inches.
Director Ericson indicated that Staff would review the document to make sure it is consistent and
appropriate.
Jerry Blanski of 2933 Wooddale Drive asked what type of long range planning was done for the
area to minimize negative impact to the neighbors to the south and allow for future development.
Director Ericson indicated that the City has had numerous long range plans and looked at the
opportunity of subdividing every way possible including all properties possible going back to
1997 or 1998 with various configurations. He then said that there remain a number of
opportunities for future development to the south. He further commented that approval of this
development may place certain restraints on the development to the south but it does not in any
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way prevent development from happening and there are still opportunities for residents to the
south to develop their properties.
Mr. Blanski expressed concern that the City is building all of these small ponds rather than
looking at drainage for a larger area and limiting the ponds. He then asked whether there would
be fencing around the ponds and what they would look like and who would maintain them.
Mr. Nordness indicated that it is their intention to rework the existing pond and it will be
elongated and narrower than it is today and will riprap and sod or seed the ponds.
Mr. Blanski expressed concern that when there is a dry year there will be nothing there but dead
grass and asked whether it would be rocked or what would be done.
Mr. Nordness explained that riprap would be installed to stabilize inlets and outlets and they are
proposing crown vegetation for seeding as it is used a lot on highways for controlling erosion.
He then explained that crown vegetation is a low growing vegetation that is always green and it
works well. He further commented that there is no intention to fence the pond.
Mr. Blanski expressed concern for kids playing on or near the ponds and the safety of that. He
then said he is concerned what the ponds would look like and whether there are easements or if
they are on private property.
Mr. Nordness indicated the ponds are on private property but there would be easements to
maintain them.
Mr. Blanski asked whether the water would flow over or under ground between the ponds.
Mr. Nordness indicated it would be over ground in places, under ground in others.
Chair Stevenson indicated he had found a discrepancy on the preliminary plat on the vicinity plat
the road is marked with an incorrect name.
Mr. Nordness indicated that is being corrected.
Commissioner Song asked whether the City has considered a significant rainfall and whether the
system as designed can handle it. She then said that when it rains hard in her neighborhood the
water flows over the curb and to the backyard when the storm sewer is full.
Mr. Nordness indicated the City Engineer and Bonestroo has designed this for a 100 year flood
incident but if there is something beyond a 100 year flood there would be overflow into the
existing storm sewer system.
Judy Witbeck of 3009 County Road H2 asked whether anyone looked at moving the road to its
junction with Spring Lake Road rather than having it offset.
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Mr. Nordness indicated it was originally planned to have that road come through and line up
directly with the street but the gentlemen who owns the property did not want to sell it so that
made it not possible to do so.
A resident asked whether there have been any protections considered to keep vehicles from
sliding into the pond during the winter.
Mr. Nordness indicated they would work with the City and address any potential danger issues
but the pond does belong to the City.
Mr. Blanski asked whether the radius of the curb could be looked into to allow more room to
make a right turn out onto H2 because at Knollwood your front end ends up in oncoming traffic
if you are not very careful.
Mr. Nordness indicated that the street would be a public street and built to City standards.
Director Ericson indicated that there have been issues with the reconstruction of H2 and he will
discuss the matter with the Public Works Director.
Mr. Mann commented that he is concerned that approval of this development limits the potential
for development to the south and he would like the City to consider holding off on approval for
further information and analysis of the development potential to the south.
Mr. Nordness commented that from their standpoint they feel they have gone above and beyond
what is required by most developers in considering all possible scenarios.
Mr. Mann agreed that it seems the developer has done what is expected and the development
sounds like it will be a quality development but, once the decisions are made on this
development their ability to develop is limited and they would like the City to consider a larger
plan for the entire area rather than just this parcel.
Director Ericson indicated that he would like to see more areas developed to bring more housing
units and a larger tax base to the City, but there are those residents who feel that larger lots and
trees make Mounds View a nice community to live in and they are not interested in developing
their properties. He then said that this development will impact future development to the south
but there remain opportunities to develop.
A resident in the audience asked if there is access so they would not be landlocked.
Director Ericson indicated there is the Pleasant View Drive easement on the western portion of
the property and, in speaking with Mr. Brennan, he would be possibly interested in dedicating an
additional 30 feet for a small cul-de-sac, so there are opportunities.
Paul Vik of 2940 County Road H2 said he feels it is a shame that this area will be torn down as
there are a lot of old trees and the area is very cool. He then recommended that the
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Commissioners take a walk back there so they are aware of what the City is losing. He further
commented that he was offered a buy out but likes his lot and wants to stay in Mounds View.
Mr. Vik asked the Commission to be very careful that all things are considered especially with
ponding and drainage and the overall effect that this development will have on future
development to the south before approving it. He further commented that this would landlock
his property for future development, but he wants to stay where he is.
Chair Stevenson indicated that his wife grew up in the area so he knows the area and it is very
nice.
Commissioner Johnson commented that when a development is done the developer is
responsible for the water on the site and it has to be contained on site. He then said that he feels
confident that with three engineering firms things are being handled properly.
Commissioner Zwirn indicated he is skeptical about the entire thing and he has some serious
reservations. He then said he would like to table this to the next meeting to allow for more
information and further clarifications on how this development will impact the people to the
south.
Commissioner Zwirn said he feels that after the fact is too hard to deal with to rectify anything
and he would like to have the information first and make the decisions based on the professional
advice.
Commissioner Johnson indicated the resolution says that all the approvals are contingent upon
Rice Creek and the engineers.
Chair Stevenson indicated that there is not much more information that would become available
as most has already been received.
Economic Development Coordinator Backman confirmed that most of the information has been
obtained by the City.
Chair Stevenson closed the public hearing at 8:30 p.m.
MOTION/SECOND: Johnson/Miller. To Approve Resolution 754-04, a Resolution
Recommending Approval of the Hidden Hollow Preliminary Plat.
Director Ericson read the stipulations for approval and indicated that Staff would consult with
the City Forester concerning the tree requirements.
Ayes – 5 Nays – 1(Zwirn) Motion carried.
Director Ericson indicated that this matter is scheduled for City Council action on May 10, 2004
and residents will be noticed of the meeting.
Mounds View Planning Commission April 21, 2004
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6. Planning Case VR04-002
Chair Stevenson opened the public hearing at 8:35 p.m.
Planner Prososki indicated that the prevailing setback is 41 feet on this block and the applicant
has requested a reduced front yard setback of 32 feet to allow for the construction of a state
licensed residential facility operated by The Phoenix Residence.
Planner Prososki indicated the dimensions of the lot and the additional setback requirements of
the lot do make it difficult to build on. She then said that Staff received one letter in opposition
and that was provided to Commissioners at this meeting.
Commissioner Johnson asked whether everyone was notified.
Planner Prososki indicated that all residents within 350 feet were notified by mail and it was
noticed in the paper.
Chair Stevenson thanked the applicant for making changes from 11 feet to a 9 foot variance. He
then asked Staff to address the letter of opposition and why the City should allow the variance to
allow the building forward of the 41 feet.
Planner Prososki indicated that Staff feels there is a hardship due to the smaller lot dimensions
and prevailing setbacks and it makes it somewhat difficult to build on the lot without a variance.
Chair Stevenson explained that a traditional setback would be 30 feet but this block has 41 feet.
Chair Stevenson closed the public hearing at 8:40 p.m.
MOTION/SECOND: Song/Miller. To Approve Resolution 755-04, a Resolution Approving a
Variance to Allow for a Thirty-Two Foot Front Yard Setback for a New Home at 7717 Long
Lake Road.
Ayes – 5 Nays – 1(Zwirn) Motion carried.
Commissioner Song asked what The Phoenix Residence does.
The representative from The Phoenix Residence indicated that they serve persons age 18 years
and older with physical and development disabilities. She then provided information on the
organization to the Commissioners.
Commissioner Zwirn indicated he had voted in opposition to the variance because he was in
opposition to the other two on the street and he wished to remain consistent. He then said that he
has nothing against The Phoenix Residence but feels that, aesthetically, it throws off the look of
the entire block.
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7. Next Planning Commission Meeting: May 5, 2004
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8. Adjournment to Agenda Session
There being no further business before the Planning Commission, Chair Stevenson adjourned the
meeting at 8:47 p.m.
(The meeting immediately adjourned to the Agenda Session)
Respectfully submitted,
Jim Ericson
Community Development Director
Transcribed by:
Joan Lenzmeier
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.