HomeMy WebLinkAbout05-07-2003
PROCEEDINGS OF THE MOUNDS VIEW PLANNING COMMISSION
CITY OF MOUNDS VIEW
RAMSEY COUNTY, MINNESOTA
Regular Meeting
May 7, 2003
Mounds View City Hall
2401 Highway 10, Mounds View, MN 55112
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1. Call to Order
The meeting was called to order by Chair Stevenson at 7:00 p.m., May 7, 2003.
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2. Roll Call
Members Present: Commissioners Stevenson, Hegland, Song, Zwirn, Miller, Scotch, and
Johnson
Members Absent: None.
Also Present: Community Development Director Ericson
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Index to Minutes Page
Planning Case CU03-002 2
Location: 7988 Edgewood Drive
Planning Case PA03-001 3
Location: 2442 County Highway 10
Planning Case No. SP-114-03 4
Pawnshop Ordinance
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3. Approve Minutes
a. April 2, 2003
MOTION/SECOND: Scotch/Miller. To Approve the Planning Commission Minutes for April
2, 2003 as Presented.
Ayes – 7 Nays – 0 Motion carried.
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Mounds View Planning Commission May 7, 2003
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4. Citizens Requests and Comments on Items Not on the Agenda
None.
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5. Consideration of Conditional Use Permit Request Regarding Property Located at
7988 Edgewood Drive
Community Development Director Ericson reviewed the conditional use permit request with the
Commission. He then indicated that the applicant had revised the plan to orient the garage
differently to bring it into compliance with the City’s Code for front footage.
Commissioner Miller asked what the combined square footage of the garage and shed would be.
Mr. Eyler indicated that the square footage would be approximately 1,644 and that would be
within the 1,800 square foot limitations.
Chair Stevenson asked how many useable garage doors there would be.
Mr. Eyler explained that he has three college children at home and that amounts to five cars, a
boat and a snowmobile in the garage. He then explained how he intended to orient the garage to
best utilize the space and be able to get the boat into the garage.
Chair Stevenson asked where the garage doors were and how many were off of the driveway.
Mr. Eyler indicated there would be one 18 foot door and one nine foot door and, in the back,
there would be an eight foot roll up door for access to the boat as well as a service door along the
side.
Community Development Director Ericson read Resolution 726-03, a Resolution recommending
approval of a 1,344 square foot garage at 7988 Edgewood Drive.
Community Development Director Ericson indicated that the Resolution requires the applicant to
remove the second curb cut.
MOTION/SECOND: Johnson/Hegland. To Approve Resolution 726-03, a Resolution
Recommending Approval of a 1,344 Square Foot Garage at 7988 Edgewood Drive.
Ayes – 7 Nays – 0 Motion carried.
Community Development Director Ericson indicated that the City Council would hear the
recommendation and make a final decision.
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Mounds View Planning Commission May 7, 2003
Regular Meeting Page 3
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6. Consideration of Development Review Requests Regarding Properties Located at
2436 and 2442 Highway 10
Community Development Director Ericson explained where the parcels were located and
provided an overview of the development.
Director Ericson indicated that the applicant would need 60 parking stalls or would need to
shrink the size of the building to conform to the Code.
Director Ericson indicated the applicant would need to provide photometric analysis for the
adjacent residential properties to conform to the Code.
Director Ericson indicated the applicant would need to provide further specifications with regard
to the garbage enclosure.
Director Ericson indicated the landscaping plans provided look nice but the City Forester will
review it and make recommendations for specific plantings.
Director Ericson indicated that no sign plan had been submitted yet but the PUD will dictate
what type of sign is allowed.
Director Ericson indicated that it looks as though the site plan submitted was carried over from a
previous site plan so there are some notes to be revised on it.
Director Ericson indicated that all dimensional requirements and setbacks are met for Outparcel
B.
Director Ericson indicated that Staff is recommending that the developer revise the plans and
correct them as noted but feels no reason not to approve the development review at the next
meeting.
Commissioner Miller asked if Staff addressed the distance from the pond as it seems there would
be additional parking available.
Director Ericson indicated the problem is that the pond is already there and, if it is adequate to
suit the needs of the site it may not be possible to change it.
Commissioner Zwirn asked how long Rice Creek would take to review this development.
Director Ericson indicated it usually takes from 30 to 45 days for Rice Creek Watershed
approval.
Audie Tarpley addressed the Commission and apologized for the shortcomings in the drawings
and explained that limited engineering work was done in case the project is turned down. He
then said that the building is 12,500 square feet of useable space and that is what they based the
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parking on. He further commented that the plans would be amended and they would meet all
City requirements should the project proceed.
Chair Stevenson asked if the extra spaces could be added.
Mr. Tarpley indicated that they had tried to respect the setbacks but could add six more spaces on
site with some consideration from the City.
Chair Stevenson commented that the Commission is keenly aware of how parking issues can
affect the surrounding area and will ensure that the development has adequate parking.
Commissioner Miller asked how many uses were expected for the building.
Mr. Tarpley indicated he expected four or five and no more than six.
Commissioner Johnson asked if the tenants would be medical and dental.
Mr. Tarpley indicated he thought so but lost a big user that he was planning on. He then said that
he has been talking to other medical practitioners but they are not as heavy as a use as what was
initially proposed.
The Commission asked whether a coffee shop was possible.
Mr. Tarpley indicated he was working very hard on a coffee shop but said he did not want to
disrupt their relationships with their landlords by naming names.
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7. Consideration of Resolution 724-03, a Resolution Recommending Approval of Two
Ordinances Related to Pawnshops, Zoning and Licensing in Mounds View
Community Development Director Ericson overviewed the history of the pawnshop ordinances
for the Commission.
Director Ericson indicated he had not added the manager definition but will do so. He then
asked for clarification on the buy hold and the pawn hold and reviewed the other changes that
were made based on the discussions at the last meeting.
Director Ericson indicated that Mr. Sonterre had raised a number of issues at the last meeting and
overviewed them with the Commission. He then said that the way the Code is drafted
concerning violations and revocation allows the City flexibility to review the violation and make
a determination as to whether it warrants revocation.
Director Ericson indicated that Staff had reviewed the fees of other cities and found Mounds
View’s fees to be in the middle. He then said that if it is determined that the recommended fee is
inadequate the fee would be changed immediately.
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Director Ericson indicated that Minnesota Statutes sets the maximum interest rate but the City of
Mounds View could set something less if the City feels 24% is excessive.
Director Ericson indicated that the Commission needed to discuss the possibility of creating an
overlay district and where that would be located. He then said the current version of the
Ordinance allows pawnshops in the B-4 zoning district.
Director Ericson indicated he would like the definition of manager to include that the manager is
on site an average total of 80 hours per month.
Chair Stevenson indicated he would like fee recommendations to be included when the
recommendation goes to Council.
Director Ericson indicated he would add it after the first now therefore be it resolved.
Commissioner Hegland indicated he would like to hear from Chief Sommer as to whether he
feels the fees are adequate.
Chief Sommer addressed the Commission and provided an overview of how the police
department would use the APS system.
Commissioner Hegland asked whether the system was used only for investigating or
periodically.
Chief Sommer indicated the use would depend upon how much time the department can devote
to the investigation of pawnshops.
Commissioner Hegland commented that the APS system is a deterrent for thieves attempting to
unload stolen goods because, if the system is used properly, they will get caught.
Chief Sommer indicated that is a side benefit but there are many items of stolen property that end
up in pawnshops with the automated pawn system.
Commissioner Hegland asked for the percentage of stolen goods pawned.
Chief Sommer indicated that some items cannot be easily tracked such as CD’s and things
without serial numbers. He then said that he has no information to be able to answer what the
percentage of stolen goods would be.
Commissioner Zwirn asked whether it was the consensus of the Minneapolis, St. Paul, and
Mounds View Police Departments that the automated system becomes another avenue for
legalized fencing.
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Chief Sommer said he does know that some stolen property ends up in pawnshops but he does
not want to make the statement that a pawnshop is a legitimate fencing operation.
Commissioner Zwirn indicated the City’s police department is stressed already and adding a
pawnshop to Mounds View will take police man hours away from other duties and he is
concerned that the fees being charged do not take into account the time for the police
department.
Chief Sommer indicated he is not able to say how many hours will be spent on it because he
simply does not know what it will involve at this point.
Commissioner Scotch asked whether Staff looked into how often police departments from other
cities are called to pawnshops.
Commissioner Zwirn asked whether adding the pawnshop will further stress the department
because of the time involved.
Chief Sommer indicated there would be more staff time used for managing pawnshops that was
previously used on other tasks.
Commissioner Hegland asked if a sworn officer has to do the tasks or if an administrative staff
member can.
Chief Sommer indicated the City does not have anyone to review the system so it would be extra
duties given to someone that already has a full plate of duties.
Commissioner Zwirn asked if, in discussions with other cities, Staff had learned whether the fees
are high enough to pay for the extra man hours or if the cities are in a deficit situation where the
city is picking up the tab for the extra requirements from a pawnshop.
Chief Sommer indicated that cities fall into both those of those categories as some spend a lot
more time than others.
Commissioner Johnson commented that there are cites that have large pawnshops in excess of
20,000 square feet and the pawnshop proposed for Mounds View is a lot smaller.
Commissioner Zwirn asked how many police calls are attributed to Mounds View Square for
malicious mischief, theft and vandalism.
Chief Sommer indicated he did not have that information with him.
Commissioner Zwirn indicated he had learned from residents and business owners that there are
a number of police calls to Mounds View Square.
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Chief Sommer indicated it would be hard for him to say how much extra time would be
involved.
Commissioner Scotch recommended getting some statistics from the City of Fridley.
Commissioner Johnson indicated this is one small pawnshop.
Commissioner Zwirn indicated he has issues with the location and issues with regard to youth
activities at Mounds View Square including vandalism and theft and he is vehemently opposed
to something of this nature in that mall.
Director Ericson indicated that Staff had researched the amount of time other cities spend on
managing pawnshops and then reviewed the time spent and the cities that were checked. He then
said that all cities contacted recommended not allowing handguns.
Commissioner Hegland indicated he did not have an issue with the applicant but wants to make
sure that the Commission’s recommendation to Council for this ordinance takes into
consideration all the possible scenarios and possible owners.
Commissioner Zwirn thanked Staff for the information on how much time communities spend on
pawnshops but then said that he has information from Blaine, Anoka and Roseville that indicates
that pawnshops are an overpowering stress on the department and they cannot supply the demand
for following up on items stolen. Further, those departments feel that the fees are a joke and do
not cover the manpower that is lost by having a police officer taking time to do the checking and
not doing other things he is trained to do making for double time lost.
Commissioner Zwirn indicated he feels the need to either increase the fees or deal with the
situation with regard to pawnshops in the community. He then said that all the cities he asked
said they would be better off without a pawnshop and he wants Commissioners to really consider
whether they want a pawnshop in Mounds View due to the negative aspects associated with it.
Chief Sommer commented that the City’s police department is below the state average and the
fees will not allow the City to hire additional officers so there will be extra work with the same
number of people.
Mr. Przetycki said he appreciated the concern that this could be a problem but said it is a legal
business and it is something that police departments do use to find recovered merchandise.
Mr. Przetycki indicated he has relationships with other pawnshop owners and they have not had
much of a problem with stolen merchandise. He then said that he has an incentive to ensure that
the merchandise he accepts is not stolen because, if it is stolen, he has to turn the item over to the
police and is out the money he spent to purchase it.
Chair Stevenson indicated that this Commission was challenged by Council to come up with an
ordinance and a location for a pawnshop. He then said that whether they want a pawnshop or not
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is not the issue as the task is to ensure that the Commission makes a good recommendation to
Council on how to regulate pawnshops and where to locate them. He further commented that he
feels the Commission has spent a lot of time and done a lot of research on the ordinances and he
feels it is time to send the recommendation to Council for further discussion and public input.
Commissioner Johnson asked if during all the research done with other police departments if
they had all said they would rather not have a pawnshop.
Chief Sommer said, generally, yes.”
Commissioner Zwirn said he disagreed with Chair Stevenson with regard to how much time and
effort needs to be put into this ordinance. He then said that expediency is not the answer to this
problem and he is vehemently opposed to the location proposed. He further commented that
Penny Pinchers is right next door to the proposed location and that is an establishment that works
with kids.
Commissioner Zwirn indicated that there is a liquor store only 50 feet away from the proposed
pawnshop location and there have been numerous break-ins and vandalism incidents at that
location. He further commented that he does not feel it would be appropriate to allow a
pawnshop in that location as it would further exacerbate the vandalism and break-ins and draw a
certain type of person that pawnshops attract to a family mall.
Commissioner Miller indicated that she went to a couple of pawnshops and even made a
purchase and she was very impressed with the operation and the way that things were displayed.
She then said that the people coming and going from the pawnshops seemed to be upstanding
citizens so she is not sure what is meant by the types of people that frequent pawnshops.
Director Ericson indicated he would prefer not to have a pawnshop located in Mounds View but,
legally, the City cannot say no to the pawnshop but can decide where it goes and how to regulate
it. He then said the City is spending a lot of money to upgrade the corridor and this may not be
something the City wants in the corridor but, if not in Mounds View Square in B-4 zoning, then
where should it be located?
Commissioner Zwirn indicated he feels the Commission needs to put more time into this and
find a location that will not impact the corridor and a family run mall. He then said that he
understands that the applicant has entered into a lease with the mall which is a little premature.
He further commented that he feels that the City needs to create fees that are high enough so that
locating in Mounds View is unattractive. He also said he is aware that the City cannot prohibit
pawnshops but could make the fees so high that it is not attractive to come to Mounds View and
he does not want the pawnshop in Mounds View Square.
Commissioner Scotch asked where Commissioner Zwirn proposed to locate the pawnshop.
Commissioner Zwirn suggested the industrial park or across the street but not where children
congregate and there is a lot of loitering and mischievous activities already occurring.
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Council Member Gunn addressed the Commission and said she has begun receiving input from
residents that are concerned about the pawnshop and the primary concern is the proposed
location. She then said that she feels it is time to consider an alternate location.
Commissioner Zwirn indicated he has fielded 30 telephone calls with regard to pawnshops being
located in the mall and a number of tenants were not told about the pawnshop proposal or it was
misrepresented to them by Paster Enterprises. Secondly, the residents surrounding the mall
within a three or four block area have indicated that they do not want a pawnshop in the mall.
Some were okay with having a pawnshop but not in the mall and not in a family area they want it
away from children and not around apartment areas and this Commission needs to address that
issue and/or raise fees so high that it is not attractive.
Chair Stevenson indicated he is not opposed to limiting Mounds View Square.
Commissioner Hegland asked if there is any square footage limit to the size of the operation or if
it is possible for this business to take over the entire Mounds View Square.
Director Ericson indicated there is no limitation as to the size.
Director Ericson indicated that he would hesitate to comment on the record making the fees high
enough to discourage someone from locating in Mounds View.
Director Ericson indicated that the Commission could discuss creating a new overlay district but
he is not sure of a consensus on the position of the Commission and asked whether it would be
necessary to discuss the location further or if the Commission was ready to make a
recommendation.
Chair Stevenson indicated that one of the reasons why Mounds View Square was chosen was
because of the uniqueness of a B-4 zoning district and, this being the only one, it would limit the
number of pawnshops in the City.
Commissioner Song indicated the fee is only an estimate and can always be raised if necessary.
She then said she believes the owner will cooperate very nicely with the City.
Commissioner Miller indicated the Commission discussed and determined that the best location
would be Mounds View Square. She then said she has a problem with the comments concerning
the types of people that frequent pawnshops after having been in one and seen people coming
and going.
Chair Stevenson indicated he feels that the Commission has spent a lot of time on this
recommendation and now it is time to pass it on to Council who will deal with the resident input
and amend the recommendation as necessary.
Commissioner Hegland indicated the City needed to limit the square footage for the business.
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The Commission agreed to a 5,000 square foot limitation.
Commissioner Zwirn asked if any of the Commissioners had gone to Mounds View Square and
seen the activity in the evening. He then asked if any of them wanted the pawnshop in the mall.
Commissioner Zwirn indicated that most of the people that he talked to had not been given a
notice and nobody informed them about what is going on. He then said he is tired of this
community passing things without informing residents that later negatively impacts them.
Commissioner Johnson indicated that what the Commission is doing does not require public
notice and that is why no one is informed. He then said that once the recommendation goes to
Council the notices will go out and residents will have an opportunity to come to Council and
voice concerns. He further commented that the City can only do so much to notify people and
the rest is up to residents to keep informed of what is going on within the City. He also
commented that the information will be on the website, cable, and in the paper so, if residents are
not informed it is because of a lack of effort on their part.
Commissioner Zwirn indicated he feels the Commission needs further information.
Commissioner Hegland indicated it is not the Commission’s job to inform the residents.
Commissioner Johnson indicated that if there is as much outrage at the Council level as has been
eluded to at this meeting then the pawnshop at Mounds View Square will not fly but that is up to
Council to determine.
Commissioner Zwirn said he has been a victim of this process with Mr. Mezzenga and he is still
dealing with the fallout. He then commented that the people in this community do not have the
time that it takes to worry about what variances are being approved and how that is going to
affect them and it is the City’s responsibility to inform them.
Council Member Gunn indicated that residents are concerned as there has never been a
pawnshop in the City and they do not know how it will impact them. She then said that the
Commission has done a lot of work on the ordinances and she feels it is time to forward the
recommendation to Council for further research and public input.
Commissioner Hegland indicated that no matter where the pawnshop is located it is in someone’s
backyard and they will say they do not want it.
Commissioner Johnson indicated an overlay is a band-aid for the problem as it would have to be
in the industrial parks and he is not sure that is a good idea. He then said he would like to limit
the square footage and pass the recommendation to Council for further consideration.
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MOTION/SECOND: Miller/Song. To Approve Resolution 724-03, a Resolution
Recommending Approval of Two Ordinances Related to Pawnshops, Zoning and Licensing in
Mounds View.
Ayes – 6 Nays – 1(Zwirn) Motion carried.
Director Ericson indicated that there would be coverage of the issue in the newspaper as well as
the required notification, website and cable channel. He then explained the reason the City does
not go overboard on notifying for the Planning Commission meetings is because of the sheer
volume of opposition has the possibility of tainting the recommendation to Council.
Director Ericson indicated that the City is in no way trying to exclude public input and Paster
Enterprises should have been more forthright with their tenants but the City cannot control that.
He then said that proper notification will be provided for the Council meeting and all interested
public comments will be taken.
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9. Next Planning Commission Meeting: May 21, 2003
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10. Adjournment to Agenda Session
There being no further business before the Planning Commission, Chair Stevenson adjourned the
meeting at 9:04 p.m.
(The meeting immediately adjourned to the Agenda Session)
Respectfully submitted,
Jim Ericson
Community Development Director
Transcribed by:
Joan Lenzmeier
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.