HomeMy WebLinkAbout1977-07-20 PC Minutes, ' MEETI~G Or THE PLANNING CO~yISSSON
CSTY OF' MOUNDS VIEW
~ RAMSEY COUNTY, MINNESOTA
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~Phe moeting of the Mounds VSew Planninq Commiasion was called to order
at 7:AU PM, Wednesday, July 20, 1977, et the Moun3s View City Hall,
2401 Hlghway 10, Mounds View, MN 55112.
1Nembara prasent:
Chairperaon Haake Commiesion Member Blanchard
Cummieaion Member Zeppar Comtniesion Member Foss .
Cammission Member Mackeben Commission Member Fedor
Commiaeion Member Glazer Ccuncil Memhar Haumgartner
Commiaei.on Membar Burmeietor Nuilding & 2oning OfFicial Roae
Corr.e~L-iona o£• tha June 8~ 1977, minutes werA submitted by Chairperson
Haake: 2nd page, lst paragraph, lat line, llth word changed f.rnm °
"would" to "Rhould"s 3rd page, last paraqraph, 6th 11ne should read
"R-1 to R-4 would be permanent"; paqe 9, let paragraph, 2nd line '
parking spacer~ should be "9y x 20" not"9y x 28"r Paye 4, 2nd p~ragraph,
llth ltne ahould read "brinq tha property back" not "being the property
back"i page 8, last paragraph, 9th line ahould read "91"' not "90"'.
MSP (SUiTneister-HaaY.a) to approve the June 8, i977, minutes ae
corrected, 9 ayes
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ITEM3 FOR C9NSIDERATION:
MINOR SUBDIVISION AND VARIANCE_OF PROPERTY AT 7959 6UNNYSIDE ROAD
OfPicial Rase explained that Mz. Weller, owner of ptoperty located at
79~9 Sunnyside Road, wished to aubdivide his 165' lot into two lota,
the south lot with the exiating houae to be 89' x 231' and khe new lot
to be 76' s 231'. Both lota would front Sunnyaide and services aze
availab).e for th4 new lot. Code require:~ that 165' lots be subdivided
equally but due ko the existing hnuse this becomes impossibla. The
existing garaqe woUld have a 5' setback from the new .lc~t. A garage
on the north side of the 76~ newly created lot is also 5' from the
common pr~perty line. OfficiaJ. Rose furth~r escplained thut Nr. Waller
also requests a vart.snce of 1' fr~r bui2dfng setbacks as the new home
he plans to build will be 62' long. Code ;aould require a 77' lot to
accommodaY.e a house of that size.
Chairperaon Haako asked Mr. Saeller if he had anything h+a wished to
add. Mr. Weller then proceeded to show the Commissioner the home he
was qolnq to build noting that it would be difficult for him to reduce
the size nf his house oY qarage one foot. He stated he was planc!lnq
to put two garage doora in his garage, one in front and onQ ir. back
so that he would have accesa to hie back yard. He stated his neighbors
cou13 also use it iP needed.
!~ lhairperson Haake asked if Mr. We1Ler planned to reaide on the new lot
~~~and he stated yes.
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MSP (Fedor-Zet~per) to recommend to tha City Council that they approve
~ne minor subdivieion aP Joseph Weller, 7959 9unnyeide Road~ areating
two lots, with the north lot to be 76' x 231' and the sauth lot 89' x
231', and also to grant him a variance of 1' on the side yard eetback
requiremente on the qarage aide oE the northern lnt For tho conetruction
of a new home. This variance ie qranted due to tho Eaat L•het the lot
has only a 76' frantago. B ayea
MINOR 8ll8DIVISION OF P1tOPERTY LOCATED AT 8408 LONG L.AKE RORD
Commi;~ion Memk~er Foss askad to be excused since he had a conElict of
intereat in the matter.
Ofi`icial Ruse expl.ained tha.t thio again was a m.i.nor aubdivieion ae the
last item, except ehat thia lot £ronts on two atreeta, I,ong Lake Road
and Greenwood Drive. The lot ie 100' wida and 272.82' long on the
north and 344.27' on the south, mhe irregularity is due to the curve
of Lonq Lake Aoad. The gpplicant; has reqaeratad to subdivide the parcel
into one lot front•ing Greenwood Drive 100' wide x 170' deep an3 one
lot fronting Long Lake Road 1Q0' widP x 102.82' c3eep on Lhe north and
174.27' daep on the south. The lot fronti.ng Grr~enwood hao services
provided while tt~e Zot Pronting Long Lake Aoad will require an
extension of water maln aervicea which would pe required o£ the b~ilder.
Drainage requirementa along Long Lake Road would be met to County
specifications. Rear lot line does not correspcnd to previoua subdi-
- visinns due to curve o£ Lonq Lake Road. City does not foreaee additional
drainage easPments needed in the area.
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Chairperson Haake asked if the applicant had anything to add. George
Payno cpoke for the applican: and explained they requested tha affsat
of rear lot li»os to mnke both lots more deeirable for building.
b19P (Mackoben-Hurmeiater) to racommend approval of the minor aubdivision
oY Ben Peichel, 8408 Long Lake Road, the property being 100' wide on
west side, 2'/2.82' deep on north s!de, 344.27' deep on tho south side,
with frontage af .t22' on east side, into two lotsi with the lot Eranting
Greenwood to We 100' wide by 170' deep an3 lot front Long Lake Road
to be 100' wide at rear of lot, 102.82' deep on the north and 174.27'
on the south, with ],22' frnntaye. 7 ayes
1 abstain
Commisszon Member Foss rejoined the meeting at this time, and Commiseion
Diember Zepper asked to be excused due to a conflict of intereat on
the next Sssue.
PR~LIMTNARY PLAT FOR PROPERTY AT Z500 HIGHWAY 10
Pteve Roae gave a background of the property in queation. The zoning
map denotee the south area ae R-2, while the north area ia donated
~s-2. The land uee map den~tes the areu as medium dens'ity, with a
{ ;aximum of six unite per building.
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The property lies in District 1, whir.h recommende for that area that
"qeaeral use patterns, commercial and high densfty resi3enL•_:.1 development
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ehauld be loaatod in proximity to Highway 10, with a decreaea in
~nteneity o£ use occurring outward fro,n tho higha~ey toward tha low
eneity residential nQiqhhorhoode to the aouth a~id weRt".
The total land area is 23.8 aaree. The purpose oE the e-2, Limited
Bueinesa Dietrict, is to provide £or low intensity, retiail or serviae
outlete which deal directly with tha austomsr £os whom the goods or
sarvi~os are furn~ahed. The usea allowed tn the 8istriet are to provida
hoods end servicee on a limited community market acale and located in
greas which are well aerved by collector or arterial street facilitiae
at the edge of reeidontial distriote.
The de£initior, of Limitod eveinees usee would ~ilow for a bu~farinq
of Ni~hway 10 to the Madium Deneity. Development Madium ~ensity fror~tinq
or rearing on f[yg~way 10 would ee~m not to be advantayer,us or economical.
A higher denu±ty residenticl or co:nmerr,ial would be more economical,
The devalopment 2s eketched preeerves a majority of the nai•ural amenities
aa the Comprohensive Qlan advisos. The ponding area wil.l be utiljzed
as ~pen space and orovide a holding area for naturul runoff.
The street plan and acceas to khe property poaes no problem and can be
coordinated with the street plan of tlie property to khe west.
The Staff recommended thak the Plan, as outlined, ie more desirable
than preeent zoning, yet does not meet Land Uae Map classification. I~
-~.oea meet the criteria for District 1 uaes. The type of 1lmited business
sea could be the key for a desitable and economical developmer.t.
The applicant hao submittgd a preliminary plat with aropnsed zonings
and a preliminary grading plan for which they seek an approval. Tha
plat ia compoaed of Additione 1 and 2, with the lst Aadition creating
11 lote, which all front County Road H-2.
The weat 10 lol•e are propoeed to be deveioped R-2 (duplex). Lot 1
is ~ corner lot 110' x 130' with all the other 9 lots being interior
100' x 130', All R-2 lota meet area and frontage requirements (12,500
square feet and 100 foot fxontage).
Lot 11 is proposed ho be developed 8-2 (parking lot for ponatelle's).
The lot. i:; five sided and fronts both County Roads H-2 and Highway 10.
The exiating B-3 uae to the cast of the lot ia in need oE additional
parking to meet Mounds View's parking code reyuirements. Thi~ lot
should eithar be developed ta meet h.hat need or ba daveloped R-2 along
County Road H-2. Tho Staff recommended proposed zoning be changed
from B-2 to B-1 ae a parking lot is a perm~.tted acceasory uee in a
~-1 claesiflcation.
The Second Addition creates 3 blocko and 18 lots. Block 1 would be
14 lote, of wh~ch Lota 2-11 would be developed R-2, Lot 1 developed H-2
and Lots 1?., 13 and 14 developed B-1. Block 2 would be three lots, with
all of them befng develuped B-2. Block 3 would be one lot, tu be
""'',eveloped B-2. All lnta with the exception of Lok 4, Block 1, 2nd Addi-
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tion meet Erontage and area requirements. Lot 4 hae required square
~ootage but has a subetandard bu.tldable frotttaye. Code requires 100'
md only an averaga of 97' ie provided. Although the lot Ss subetandard
it preeente no buildable probxem wlth a 95'-100' tronCage.
A holding pond would be neceseary for the development and io required
by City, Coanty and the Rice Creek S4aterahed. All roade and cu~-de-esc
right-of-waya maet Mounds View code spocificationa. Also, the
drainaqe and ponding area are adaquata as provided, Additional 10'
(total 20') easemente are neceesary alona the following lot l~nea Eor
the looping of water servicea: Lote 4 and 5, ~lock 1, ls~ Addition
and Lote 7 and 8, Block 1, 2nd Add~tion.
1'he StafP now.recommends approval to the Council of the pr.aliminary
plat, prelim3nary qrauin~ plan and rezoning with the followiny cunaidora-
tions, that an additional easement ba takan for 7.oopinq oP water aervlcee,
that the ponding area be privately owned and maintained, and a varianoe
granted for Lot 4, Block 1, 2nd Additior, for substandar8 frontage (97').
Mr. Oleon, an engineer representing Mr. O'Neil, siated that 'c.hrr plan
was presented ln the skatch plan staqe and that khey were now before
the Planning Commiseion foi rezoning and pxeliminary plat approval.
Commiasion Member G1a2er asked iP all the R-2 units would be rental
unlts. Mr. Olson raplied that hopefully there would be an owner in one
halE, with a rente.r in the other.
ommission Member Glnzer stated that he was concerned with the depth
~~~f the pand and felt ti:at the deptYa would not minimize the algaa. Mr.
OYson replied that it wae f.ound that algee grew much better in deptha
of ~ive feet or lees.
Commisaion Member Eurmeister asked if the lot proposed for ponatelle's
would be includad in tha drainage plan. Mr, Ulson replied that there
wna an exieting sewer system there already.
Allen Zepper, apeak3ng as a citizen and not a Ccauni~sion Memmer, asked
whera the water ~ould ga from Ridgo Road and Long Lake Road. Counail
Member Aaumqartner replied that it goes east to IsondalA then eouth to
Woodcreot ihen easl to Bona Road anci then aouth again to Rico Creek.
Mr. Zepper questioned the amount of fill that would be re~uired in the
area. Mr. Olaon replied that the qrade is beiow water level and that
a grading permft hae been requested from the City. The area would be
filled in considerably. Mr. OlAOn also etatad that one of the reasons
the project had be~n expedited was because the owner had acceRe to Eill
for the'axea. Also, all tcees would be saved wherever poseible.
Commisaion Member Glazer pointed out that the depth of the holding
pond would actually help the miaquito pro6lem as misquito's prefer
ahallower areas.
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Mr. 2eppar pointed ou~ that the Ciky is trying to keep commes•cial
~ehiclee out oE the residential areae and e*,ated tha~ paople would
~ve to drive through the aommercial area to reaeh their homes. Also,
'the area is not made ior heevy traffic Elow that ia anticipated.
Mr. Olson stated that the original propoeal had planned for a aeparation
betwaen the commercial and xesidenti~3 areas hut that the Planning
Commission had wanted more residential aroa. Aleo, the traffic f].ow
was checked from Long Lake Road and Eound to be acceptable and that a
signal would probably be put in once the traffic reached a certain point.
Dennie Olaniok, 7918 Groveland, asked Mr. Olson what price range the
duplexea would be in. Mr. Olaon replied that thoy would be similar to
the duplexes presently located on Silver Lake Rond and Miseiesippi.
PaulinP Steller, 2454 County Road H-2, etated that she had talked to
Ramaey County regardinq the trafEic flow and that shA helieued
the increaeed traffic would be a hazard ta children in the neiqhborh~od.
Mr. 2eppor asked if the Planning Commission was nware oS ehe tra£iic
already on the road. Com~iasion Member. Foss replied that moat of the
traffic on tt-2, other than the apartments, was basically from people
going to work at Medtronics, Onan, marget and ao torth, and that the
pxoposed duplexes would not increase the traffic a great deal.
~r., Zepper stated that he did not want to sae any commercial huilflings
=-~oing directly out to Long Lake Rnad, Chairperson Haake pointed out
hat all the planned building fox Lonq LaY,e Road would be R-2,
'~--v~hich would have a low traffic Elow and the commarcial buildinge
would be exitina onta Highway 10.
Councilm~mber Batungartner pointed nut that the wooded area is quite
heavily in~ectad with oak wi].t and that many of the trees wiA1 bs loat
within the next year or so.
Cqmmission Member Foss pointed out thah. in Mounds View the majority
of the developmant has besn in single family homes aud that taxes
have gone up considerably and that the citizens should be planning
ahead and allowing commercial development to help relieve the tax
situation.
Commiesion Member F'e3or asked if the holding ponfl would ba used ae a
park at nome time. Chairperson Haake eaid it w~uld not. Ghe also
pointed ouL that medium deneity allows up to six units per lot and
that the developer is on2y aeking Por two.
~ MSP (Haake-Blanchard) to recommend to the Council that they approve
~ thQ praliminary plat for the 0'Neil ~ddition, dated 6/23/77, as presented
to the Planciinq Commission. Also, the plat requires a variance oE 5'
for the f.rontage of Lot 4, Block l, Second Addition. It will also require
an addittonal 10' 'utility easement on Lots 7 aud 8, Hlock 1, Second
A3dition, and a 10' easement on Lots 4 and 5, Aioek 1~FiYat Addition,
the common lot lines (total 20'). The plat will requira a rezoning
.~f Lot 11, Block l, First Addn £rom R-2 to H-1. A downzoninq af Lots
17., 13 and.14, Block 1, Eecond Addn from H-2 to B-1 would be requirea,
along with the downzoning of Lots 2-11, Hloak ~ Second Addn from 8-2 to
R-2. The Planning Commission also recommenda that the hold~ng pond be
raquired an~ thst it be maintainad by the owner ko meet the specifications
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of rhe City Enqineer, the riiae Creok Waterehed, or any ather related
~.t}apartment and that it not be ooneidered a park dedioation.~
f ~roll aall votg wae takene
Commieeion Member Foxe - aye
Commiaeion Member Dlanchard - aye
Commiaeion Mentber Burmeieier - aye
Chairperson Haeke - aye
Commiaeion Member Glazer - nay
C~mmiesion Membar F'edor - nay
Commieeion btember Maokeben - nay 4 ayeA
3 naye
Commiseion Member Mackeben atatad t.hat tha proposed piece of property
to be aold to Donatelle'a wae not good plannin9, in hav:ng the R-1
bein3 scrose the atreet from tho propoeed H-2 zoning.
Chairpr~raon Haake point-, :at thati the carner lot on County Road H-2
and Fdqewood had racently baen rezoned R-2. Comr,?iseion Mamber Mackaben
dummarized and stated that his main objoction was with Lo't 11.
Chairparson Haake etated that any development should have attention
paid tn adequate bu~tering. Commission Member Burmeister etated that
bhe Planning Commission should have it noted in tha minutes that adequate
bufEering ehould be attained in any development, to i.nsure that the
xor, next to Donatelle's is revfewed when Donatelle`s comes in.
~'ommiesion Member Glazer stated that while the plan Ss good overall,'
.e dicl queation the ponding area and i.f the City should take it ae a
park. He alaa staled that a holding pond would no~ respact the nature
af. khe land.
Mr. Zapper pointe8 ouY. that the kida in that naighborhood cannot reach
a park without croaeing over Long Laka Road, County Road H-2 os Highway
10. Councilmember Baumgartner ste;:ed thafl there is a pask on Ridge
Lane that will he givun to the City within the next few years.
Chairperaon Haaka state3 that with the approval of the motion, it would
then go UeEore tho Cauncil.
Commiseion Member 2epper at thls time retcurned to his aeat on the
Planning Commiaelo~~.
MAJOA SUBDIVISION OB' PROPERTY AT 2172 MUSTANG DRIVE
Mr. Aoae gave a baek.ground of tha subdi.;rision xequest. The app].icant,
Bill Baim of FBK Investment Cc~mpany, has reguasted to create an addi-
tional lat in a 32 acre parcal in tho Mounds View Industria2 Park far
a:c industrial ware~houae iise, The lot would front and corner on the
exteneion o£ Nlustsng Road and a new street propoeed to connect to a
etreat in New Briqhton. The lot would be 200' fronting Muetang i:~:ad
and 475' front3.nq the propoaed road.
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Mr. Beim asked that i.t be pointed ~ut that there will be three lote
~ith the eubdivieion rath~r than the two ae shown on the Pianning
~ommiseian agenda. Chairperoon Haake asked thati it bo eo noted, that
Mr. eeim wae propoeing tn subdivide one lot into three, rather than
one lot .tnto two. OfPioial Roee corrected hie backqround oE the
eubdivieion explaining thati the pla*_ areatad two additlonal lots
beeide the ane cornerinq ~n Muatang and tihe new etreet. Hoth
edditionel lote would have frontage on Mustanq Road and the endir~g
00' radiue cul-de-sac. Al1 throa lote exceed eize requirements for
industxia7, lota.
Con~ieeion Member Glazer asked what the purpose of the lot aplit was.
Mr. geim raplie3 that he had received an oEf.er to buy Lot 2 and that
lie plannad on developing one of the other lote, but had no plana yet
for the third lnt.
MSP (FOS~-Maakeben) to approve the major eubdivieion of PBx Investment
Comp~ny, Eor tha property ].~cated at 2172 Muetang Road and to recommend
to Cauneii that they approve th~ preliminary glat, dated 7/6/77, a~
submitted. 5 ayse
Commiesion Membez Glazer aslcad that it be noted that the intent of
the aubdiviaion was to aplit off a salaable portian of the land and
that it would nut neceaearily induce dovelopment of Lot 2.
--.CENE~RAL CONCEPT PLAN 3UHMISSTON OF PROPERTY I,OCATED AT 2245 HIGHWAY 10
__.Jfficial Rose reported that Mr. 8111 Beim hae requasted approval of
the General Concept Pian for his mixed PUD. The proposed zoninge would
be R-1, H-4 and I-1, whioh would include apartments, office/warehouse,
oEfice, motei of£ice, retail commercial and reatauranta commercial.'
The Comprehenalve Plan land use reconvnendation for tho subject acreage
is com~ercial uees oriented to auto traffic. The present zoning ia
composed of ~pprnximately ono half high deaeity reaidontial and one
half geuarnl buainesa. Rezaning3 would be necessary in the final plan.
Tha pr.oposed R-0 density factoz ie 15 unita per acra. 5cotland Green,
a representative exant~le,has l7 unite per aare. Zoning allowa 17.42
anita per acre. The proposed zoning ie R-0 which allowa commercial
u~es by condit.ional use only.
Tha proposed B-4 deneity percentage ia 10.65 floor area per lot. Ueing
McAOnalds and Mpunds View Squure as repzeaentative examples, thelr
percentage of floor area per lot ia 7.528 and 23.668 r~apectively.
The proposed I-1 denaity percentage is 26.17 floos area per lot. After
a review of all uses and coneidecing f1UOr area to lot siza af axisting
uaea and propoaed uaea, the Staff finds their overall denaity to be
satisfactory.
Mi~e Waod, a reprosentative for Mr. aeim etated that the area in
•uestion has lostmoat of ite treea due to wind damage and disanao.
~lso, there aro two low areaa which could be potential ponding areaA.
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He rep~rtad tihat the propoaed zoning is a PUD proaose ar,d thati the
~tajor portian would be B-4. Also, iP all goea well with tho Sbate
~ Jlghway Dapertmar,t, a naw ncaosa will 6e gut in on Highway 10, thue
° providinq four eidad exposure to the davelopment. The road xliqnment
of Woodale wae ohanged elightily on the concept plan due to lining it
up with the proposed changeover. Okher than that, the concept remalne
the eame ae beEore.
Mr. Beim stated that he aould not quarantea that the area would look
exactly as ~t wae laid out on the concept plan dua to the wishee and
raquoats o£ whoever bought tha property and put in bueineseea, but
that tha plan ehowed it to be how he doeired it be.
61r. tVoad po3ntad out there would be an office warehoueo or light indus-
trial axea and that while an area had been aet asidefor it, 1t could
not Ue guarantded that would be tihc~ exact apot it would be built. The
bulk of the development will be retail, commercial and r99t3uran~.
Chairperson Haake asked if the R-0 zoning would allow an apartment
buildinq 10 etorieR hlgh to go in. Official Aoae replied thgt three
stor!ea is the maximum and that the Gity did hav~ control over th9
height of any plannad building.
Commiaeion Membar Glazer asked who.rA the figure 2.2 people per unit
aama from. Mr. Wood replied that they had used the Metro Councll
fiqures, which wne an overall aver.aqe taken throuqhout tite mntro area.
:ltatrperson Ifaake pointad out there were presently £our lots exitiny onto
.:ounty Apad H-2 and felt that there might be a problem with too much
traffia trying to get onto A^2.
Chairpereon Ytaako aeked whnE happened to the plan once it was approvad
by the Commiesion and sent on to the Council. Mr. Roee replied that
there ware three steps to go through,firet the conaept plan, then the
development plan and then tlte final plan. The Council would oet a public
Y~earing on th.°. is~ue.
Chairpor9on Haaka stated that Mn/DOT ha3 reEused io put in a signallizd
interchariqe until 1983 and aske~ if there was any chance of getting
one earlier. Official Roae replied that when the developmen~ does
taka p7.ace, a curb cut could be made to alluw a right turn lane, and
thut the Stote Flighway Depnrtment works on a need basie, so he could
not say whethez or not a eignal would be put in,
Councilmember 9aumgartner stated that a meeting had been held June 20,
1977, wi.th a representative fro~r'the Highway Department and that the
representative would not commit himaelf to the cut, eince t11e cub
would serve na purpooe until the developmant was put in. OEEicial Aose
also statad that tha Highway Department was oppoaing kJ~e signal becaase
of prublema in synchroniLing the stop lighte. However, he dici not
feel that the eignal was definiteZy ruled out.
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~ M3P (Heake-aurmeieter) to recammend to Council approval of the conaepr
,~"~lan Eor the Northcrest Park devaloYmant as pteeentad io the Planning
]ommtasian. The reasrvation the Planning Commiseion hae ie tha many
--curb cute th~t are f~ropobefl on County Road F1-2 and that perhape ~hey
could be minimized, it ie also tha Planning Commiseion's underatanding
ttiat rhere will bo a full public hearing nn the conoeptual pian and
that cons±derati.on will be given to the op4hions o£ the many residenta
alung County Road H-2 during the Council's deliberations.l
.
A roll vall vote was tiakana
Commiesion Member Foe~e - aye
Commlasion Memhor Blanch~r.d - aye
Commisaion Member Burmeieter - ayo
Chaizparaon Haake - aye
Commieaion Member Glazar - nay '
Camniesion Memher Fedor - nay
Commisoton Membar Mackeben - aye
Commission Member Eepper - eye 6 ayes
2 naye
Commi.enion Member Glazer etated I~e £elt there were problems with tha
in+tensity of the R-0 zoning f~r the area ao4th of County Road H-2~
and it wae far too intense to be immediately next to singl.e family areas.
Commiseicn MemhPr aurmeister atated that she agreed with Commiasion
Member Glazer concerning the problems of the intennltiy af ;~ie zoning.
^.haiLpert~on Haake staked that ahe also agreed with Commisaion Member
;lazer'e commente. ~
Ccemmioeion ldembor Lepper asked how anything could be approvad by the
Planning Qommiaeion without knowing what was to l~e developed. Chair-
peraon Haake replied that that ie what PUD ia, a plan without a dePinite
d~'velopment set to takP place.
Councilmember Baumyartner stated that you have to etart som~where and
Ceammieeion Member Burme.iater etated that the idea is being approved
eo that tdr. Beim could gu ahead and make definite plane for the
developmEnt.
Commission Member Fedor augaested that before going too ~~ar aheaC with
the plana, thaE the R-~0 zoninq should be looked into. Coqncilmember
Baumgaztner asked whet Commisaion Member Fedor Eelt it ahauld Ue if
not R-0, and Commiaelon t•Sember Fedor replied it sliould ba, at the very
moot, R-3.
Commission MembPr Glazer stated r.hat the city would be in a much better
position if chey added lowar denaity. Commisaion Member *'edor stated
that if the area on H-2 dis3 end up to b:~ x-3,xoning the middle area
industrial wuuld be a bad idea, Commiesion Member Burmoleter polnted
auC tnat zoning the area R~-3 would involve more curb cute than R^D.
..rommisai.on Member Glazer otated tha~ he hacl H problem with R-0 in that.
t wae £ar too intense for a aingle family neighborhood. Howovor, he
~ound the rest oE the plan acceptable.
~10-
Ca:nmiseion Member Fedor otated he wo~~id like to make the City CounQil
/"'~ware thaC with thie being the giret PUDr 8 lower zoning than R-0 would
.eep the City in a bettor bargaining p~eition in the future,
DBIVF-IN AN~ CUNVENIENCE FOOD PROPOSAL FOR 2741 HIGHNAY 10 FOR JAMES
REFRIGERATIOK
C,hairperson Haake informed Mr. James and his attorney, Stuart (3ale,
thet the court reporter preeent with Mr. Gale would not be allowad ta
take minutea of tlie diacusaion ae the City provided their own recording
secretary. Mr. Gale replied that he wanted the court reporter to take
minutce o.f the meeting ae he wanted an exact recar.d af wliat was said.
Councilmember Baumgartner stated that the City At~ornay, 2iichard Ma~~era,
lyad adviaed the City not to allow court raportars whan ther.e was a
oity rr~cordiny secretary present. Chairperson Hzake told Mr, Gale
h~ cou3d either dismias his court reporter or cancel the discuseian of
the pr~posal. for Jamea Refrigeration. Mr. Gale requoated a recees to
confar with his aliont,. A five minute recesa was granted.
At the reawnption oP the me~etinq, Mr. Gale stated th~t he did not foel
the ~i.ty recording secretary wae acceptahle but in the intareet of moving
tha proposal along, ho wonld diamias hie court repor.ter and procead
with ttie meeting.
Offic±al Fose reported thgt the applicant, Charlee James uf James
Refrigeration,proposea to develop a convenience food estabiishment
.t the aorner of llighway 10 and Aed Oak Drive. mho Cumprehensive
dlan Land Use Map denotes the land to be developed as hiyh denaity
reaidontial. The,present zoning is Highway Buainess, 8-3. A 8-3
! Conditianel ^ae Pexmit allowe a faat food or convanience fno~9 sa~abliehment.
The bu1131ng would be 1900 square feet and would be approxltnately
40 x 46' Eronting Hi~hway 10. The building would be locnted 69' from
the Red Oak right-o£-~~:ay and 59' from Highway 10 zight-of-way (a 30°
minimu.T is requirad).
The applicant has grovided 69 parking apaoee, while the code requ~rement
is one spaca for every 15 squara feet less 10 percent. This would
amount to 17.4 spaces. Aftor camparing parking at Perkins, McDOnaide,
and Arbys, the 64 spaces appear to bo adequate. Howaver, a vartance
or codo change would be needed.
The daueloper has proposed a private service drive Eor the parcol oR
lend. Accesa would be off of Red Oak Drive and Nighway 10. The aystem
would aerve the proposea food estaqlishmant as well aa the exiating
uae (Crown Auto) and an additional use not yet proposed.
The curb cut proposed for Red Oak Drive is 26'. A varlance would be
•required since 22' is maximum. However, the roqaeat tor the variance
is reasonable and has been given in the paot.
^he proposal pr.ovides for n minimum 15' green area on both eide~ of the
,~ot fronting tha road. The code requirea 15'.
-I1-
Alonq the rear lot line bordering reeidential propeLtios the propoeal
~!~rovidea 9tl' wlth tk~e use of existing amenities to ocreen the R-1
ropertias (cnde rec~uiras minimum 20'). ~P1ie Btatf recommende that a
minimum 6' fence also be provided along the zaar lot adjoining the
R-1 propertiea.
x 5' green area has been provided along tha eaet property line abutting
an undevelopAd commorcial lot. The cocie requires a 5' minimurn.
The Staff recommends thak if approved, variancee would be required for
a rel_+,ef of 50 parking spauas and a relief of 4' far the ausb cut.
C:~a1.r.peroon Naeke e+tal•ed that if the cnde req~i;~r~.5 only a?2' curb
cut, she felt that 26' would be much bettar.
~anmiaei.on Member eurmeieter aeked how far the property line ie from
tiillview 22o~d. Offiiual Aose replic:d that it is 11.65'. Commiasion
tdember aur.meieter then atated that she was cor.cerned that stacking
problems wou13 occur due to the heavy traffic at the Red Oak Drive
and Highway 10 inCersa~tior,..
Cem~nission Membet Zepper. asked if there was any way for the proposed
drive-in ta have the curb cut on Hillview rather than Red Oak Drive.
Offiolal %ose reglied that there was a problem in coming out on Hillview
as ln coming outt on Aed Oak Drive. The Staf~ check.ed the area and
found that there was not much stacking on Red Oak Dzive. Chairperson
-~Haake and Commiseion Members Blanclzard and Fedor stated. that they felt
here definitel.y was a stacking problem thPre at timea, especially duxing
~che rush houre.
Commiesi~n Member Zepper pointed out that Red Oak Drive ie propoeed to
become an intersection batween the prop~eed new Highway 10 and Silver
L~ke P.oad. The City haR expressed opposition to the concept but that
does not mean that it will not happen.
Mr, Charles James stated that he would like to explain his involvement
witilxthe proposal. Ha stated that he had purchased the pro~eriy in
1970 and that• as a condition to his purcl~ase, he had to be guaranteed
that the property was zoned s-3 and that a letter was provided him
from the City of Mounds View, dated 7/13/70, from the City Admiaistrator,
etating that the propc~rty wae'rezoned under orclinance 152 to 8-3.
He, upon receipt r~f the letter, completed the purchase of the prop.::ty.
Mr. James etated that he had developed Crown Auto next to the proposed
lnaatton.
61r, Jamee atat;ad that rogarding the accoss ontta Red Oak Drive, he had
euxvey'ed the property l~x correlation to t::o plat p].an and that the
prosent traffic counts indicate there are nearly 30,900 care per day
going through the intereeotion on H19hway 10, and that the figures
shoul9 drop once new Highway 10 goea through. Also, the count taken
on Silver Lake Road waa 3400 cars per day in the area of Miseiseippi
Street, and that ae tha traftic progreeses nnrth, the count droYe
oneidcrably, lu 975 st Red Uak Driva. Alao, he felt thet there ie
a other point to make the exit other than Aed Oak Drive. However, he
'"has allowed f.or stacking on the property itself.
-12-
Official Roee polnted out that the CiCy ie £acad wi,th that same prnblem
~~,imo and time agairi and that one of the. most .important thtngs to keep
:n mind is that the C±ty muet have accege to allbuildinys for the fire
" and police departments.
Commieeion Member Burmeigter aeker] •ah~re th~: trafEla count came from.
Mr. Jamea repliad that the figures came from Mn/DOT and that thoy were
from 1974 and were the most recent figuras ava.ilable, and th~t Mn/DOT
had kold him thooe Eigurea ohould be compounded 12 percent per year.
Commission Member Burmelstar stated that ehe wae sure the fic~ures
Mara ncaurr.t~ in 1979 b~~t thet a great d.ea1 0£ development had gone
in the past thrae yeare and tha figures were very autdaced.
Mr. James stated that once new Highway 10 ia bui.lt, Lhe truf£ic on o1d
Highway 30 will decrease measurably. Commiasion Member Glzzer etated
that this was not true, that Mn/DOT Y.ad told the City to not expect
the traffic to dxop on Highw~y 10 once L•he new Highway 10 was puC
through.
Mr. Jamea introduced b1r. Paul riisso, who i.s thQ owner-operator oE the
propose3 pra~erty.
Mr. Riseo gave h1s backyround ot having worked for Howard Johnaon for
18 yearo, Allied Stvres for 8 yoare, Daytons for'8 yeara and that Is~
had just recently left Perkins to start h,is own buainess. He stated
'~+:hat his rsalaurant was to be a family restaurant and would not be
erving liquor, and that }is hae a brand new concept in reataurants
-that he helieses w:.11 he aucccsssful.
t4r. Risso staY.ed that he would like to clariPy hia propoegd rantaurant
being called a drive-in and convenience fo~d establiahment. He
axpla3ned that the definition oE convenienc:a food is anytlt±ng t:hat has
been altared, and that all food mu~t be altered in some mannar when
served in a restaurant. Ae for the driva-in, it ia actually to lbe
a dxi~~a-throuqh, where cuatomers will pull up to an intercom and order
their food and then drive through to a window where they will pick it
up, nnd thon drive out wi.th it.
He also stated that he wouid not be serving fast foods and that a7.1
foode would be prepared fresh on the premises daily, with the only
exception being that he wauld be purchaeing Erozen fish ae Ereeh Eis11
wae tao expensive to fly in.
mhe restaurant would,be designed to emit warmth and a family oriented
ntmosphare. It would be immaculately kept up and an attendant will
be seeigned +o patrol the parki.ng lot at lea.at onca every half hour.
tio pick up any litter and to watch over it, and someone else wauld be
a9eig~n.=d to tha same task inside.
Mt. itieso etated !ze would~operate the restaurant and that hie son-in-law
would be tha nighL manager. Their propoaed hours would be 11 AM to il PM,
r perhape 12 PM en aeekenils. They would not ellow loitering at all~
.`~nd would cooper~te 100 percent with the police.
_13_
t All equipment Eor the building would be anviranmentally eound. The
~'"`~etaurant would provide seating £or 75 to 80 patrons.
~ tn roference to the traffic, Mr. Riaeo stated that a etudy done by
the National xestaurant Aeaociation ehnwe that the average car bringn
~ 3 people to a raetaurant and that he expects approximately 180 oare
per day and that they will serve 400 people per day, including the
'i driva-throuqh aervice, thus resultiny in approximately 15 cere per
~ haur enterinq and extting the reataurant parking lot.
Mr. Riseo intreduce~ Mr. Charlea Novak, architect of the building.
Mr. N~vak atated thet there would be etacking provided for approximately
two or three care before receivinq ordera.
The plan ia for a 6avarian chalet typa exter.ior, to Le call.ed Burg~r
Tower. The tower itself will have clocks on it. Tkie ronf iu to bo
oE gabol. dasign and wi.ll allaw ail the heating aad air condit.ioning
equipment to be put into it, thus sliminating it fr~m view from the
outside of the buildinq.
The interior will use a good deal of natural i.ic?~t. The concept
calls for a nounter for self service and then seating. All areas of
the building would be accesaible to thc+ handiuapped.
Commiseion Member Fosa asked what peroentage o£ the people would Ue
going through the drive-through as compared to boing seated. Mr.
Risao replled that he oxpected 20 percent tq go thzouch the drive-
hzough, with 80 percent coming inside for seating. ]#lso, with those
~--khat do go through the drive-through, it has been his e:cperienr.e that
they then leave the premiaes and take the food elsewhere and d~ not
park in 4;he lot and eat it there.
Commieaion Member Eurmeister asked Mr. Risso if ha was affiliated
wit}t another Eurger Tower. Mr. Rieao replied that he was not, that
this would L•e ~he firsc Burger Tower.
Mr. Gale atated thak. if it were to become a problem with drive-through
customera reraaining on tha premisea to eat Lheir food, signa would be
posted prohibitin4 conaumption ofi food in the parking lot.
Chairpereon Haake stated that tite main problem was thr~ Red Oak Drivo
exit and that problam altiould k~e Eocused ~~pon.
CommiRSion Member Zepper asked what type of a menu would be offered
so as not to make i+_ another McDanald's. Mr. Riesa said there woulci
be Havarian chicken, roast beef, ham, hamburgera, German franks,
french fries, nnion rings and home-made cookies on the menu.
f~fficial Rose reported that the reason there may have been confusion
about the type of reatauran~ it vrould be was that it had to be classlfied
a conven3ence food eatablishment beaanea of the type of uteneil uaed
i,;x se:rving the food, i.e., the ~omparison to MeDOnald's
~~
-14-
Mr. Riseo stated that he has found kide eti11 wanti hamburgeru when
~hey go out to eat, He plano to have mueical chimea plnyinq in tihe
ack9round ~f the restiaurant and ~b.st he ia trying to puE d~q~ity
°w.back into the lower priced food.
Commiasion ~fe,~nber Fedor aeked how Busger Towar would compare to
Perkine. Mr. Rieao replied thnti otiler than tha size oP the menu,
it would be very comparable.
Chairpereon Haaka stated thati ehe wae ebill ooncerned about the
trafPic cominq out nnto Red Oak Dr9,ve,
Commie~ion Member 2epper etated that if the restauran+, did have 75 to
80 eeata, and the average car carried 3 peopla, that only 25 aare
would be entoring per hour, which he di.d not £ee1 was exaeeeive.
Chairpereon Haaka pointad out that the drive would eerve three
eetablishmente.
Mr. Aieso reported that studi.es had Ueen dane and revealad that the
geagraphical market area of this type oE operation is no moxe thnn
three milee. Also, there is a gocd pereentage of people who will etop
at any i•ast food place to est, and with McDOnald'e in MounSs Viaw and
Burges Kin9 by Northtown, there would not be that great a nwnber drivittg
to his restaurant spec:lEically.
ffiSSP (Glazar^Fedor) to racommend ta Counail that the request oE James
!efrig~rRtian,to dewalop a conveniance Pood eetabliehment et the aorner
--(NB) of Hlghway 10 and Rad pak Drive be denie8. The reason Por thl.e
recommendation ie based on th~ pr.emisea thab it ie nat in conPormity
with the Comprehanaiva Plan to preeerve the reaidential aharaoter ot
thia particular dietrict. It is far too intenss to uae to abut an
establiahed reeidential area. It aill promote s goad deal o! traPiia
on Hillview which is presently quita aerenc~. It wl11 elso probnbly
augment developmon~ along Red Oak Drive. The disausaion that bzouqht
the upgrade of Compaseion Center currently applied to thie requeet.~
A roll aall vote was taken~
Conuniosion Member
~qrnmisaion Mernbe•r
Cqmmission Member
Chairperson Haake
Co~mniasion Member
Commieaiqn Member
Commieeipn Member
Cqmmieeion Member
Fosa - nay
alanohard - nay
Burmeister - nay
- nay
Gl.azer - aye
E'edor - aye
Mnckaben - nsy
2eNper •- nay
Commieaion Member 2epper ~ointed out thtst the nrea is already
zoned 8-3.
6 neye
2 eyeo
^ommiseien Member Burmeiater etated that theze is elreedy high deneity
1~d commercial development in the area and that it Boee no*. qo againaC
~..~he Cemprerianeive Plan. It is epecially zoned Por 4uch e purpoee.
-is-
Commisaion Member Glazer replied thnt '~he particula= use ie bad for
f'~he area. Cammiseion Member Aurmeieter replled that anythinq that
ould qo in there then would be Uad.
Commiesion Member Glazer etated that accese on and of.f oE Highway 10
from Re~ Oa1c Drive ie xlready difficult. He atated he lives on
Hill.view and ie familiar with the traffic patterns and that it is -
almoet impoaeible to get onto Highway 10 now unlese at a eignal.
Chairpernon Haake pointed out that most peopie take Highway 10 either
norCh or eouth to Red Oak Grive.
Commieeion Member Fedor stated that ha would like to add a commant
that many hours were spent working together on the Compreheneive Plan
and that generally you do not qo against the Comprehansive Plnn.
Commieaion Membar 7epper replled that the proposed restaurant would
not go againet th~ Comprehensive Plsn an the area is already zonad B-3,
which is what 1s requirad.
Mr. Jamee etated that he bel+_eves the best uae of Lhe land is cor,unercial.
Also, ho goinked out that when he was considE,~ing purchasing the
proper.ty he wae told by the City that it was ~uitable for commprc3al
uee and that ho did not believe it wae appropriate for aparhment
buildinge. 8ordner Consultanta had repo:ted to him that it would bo
eerved baeically by a ly mile radius, with a maximtun of 3 miles.
~~SF (2epger-Blanchard) to approve the conditional use and two vaziancas
or the proposal Eor 9urger Tower as pr~eantad by Charles Jamea of
-Jamb~ ~a£rigaratiou. Conditional use approval ~vill, r.equire a variance
of 50 parking acaces and u curb cut of 26' ra~her than 22' on Red Oak Dr,~
A rqll aall vote was takens
Commieeion Membar
Commiseion Member
Commlasion Member
C,hairpaYSOn Haake
Commieeion Member
Comrniseion Membar
Commiseion Meinber
Cummi.aeion Membez
Fose - aye
Blanchard - aye
Burmeister - aye
- aye
G1azoL - nay
k'edqr ~ nay
Mackeben - aye
Zepper - aye
Commieeion Member Fass pointed out that the zoning code akatoa that
conditione must be met on conditional use ~ermits. The City Council
must approve it and they can hold a public hearinq if they wieh.
Commission Member Fedoz atated that varisnaee are generally granted
for. hardships and that they ehould think abaut changing th~ ordinance
a.s far as parking ia concerne8. The owner, Mr. James, has thrae lots
with which to cnme up with tho required parkinq spacee. Chairpereon
Haake aqreed thnt t}ie ordinance ehould be reviewed £or parking epacee.
6 ayee
2 naya
-lb.~
Commieeion Member Burmoieter asked that tiie Council bo notified that
/"`~;he Planning Commiseion wae concerned about the exit on Red Oak Drive
nd have Ehe Council look at it and eae if t.hey can aome up with eome
- Buggestione.
MAJOR 5UBDIVISYUN dF pROPERTY AT 8270 GR~VELAND ROAD
Official Rase reported that Mr. Stanley Fieher, owner of rhe property
at 8270 Groveland Road, has requoated to aubdivide the lot fronting
Groveland and Knollwood (460' wide x 458.2' deep) .into 10 lote of
equal aize (92' wide x 211.6' deep).
The lots meet size requirements. However, the exieting house floes not
mPet setback requirementa as subdivision requeated (13' frotn r.eaz
lot line of Lot 6). A varianca wuuld be required for a relief of 17'.
The garaqe (22x23) must be relocated to meet setback requi,rements as
it liee on the common lot line of Lote 6 and 7. mhe ehed on Lot 7
is ovorsized and ahould Ge removed or relocated. If it ia relocated,
it must be reduced to ordinance size (2~8 =quare feet). Adjacent
to the southern lols (5 and 6) is an undeveloped parcel 41.5' wide
by 458.2' deep not owned Sy the applicant. Thia parcel ahould be
incliade~ in the subdivision request, forming two corner lats and two
interior lots.
All luts in requested gubdivisio^ propose ho hava a 5' drainage easementi --
- aloag the rear lot linea. The lota faoing Groveland are low and therefore
rill require fill, soil tests and grading pcios to bui131ng permits
~'.,,,~tieing issued.
The 9taff recununenda that before approval ie glven, that thQ plut be
revised to accommodate the future use oP the 41.5' strip of land located
south ~f the presented plat.
Mr. Robert Smith identified himself as attorney for Mr. Fieher and
sta~ed that Mr. Fisher was not preaent due to his age and tho lateness
of the ciiscuea, but that his son wae present.
Mr. Smi.th stated that the parcel wa» pu.rchased by Mx. Fieher i.n 1991
and that aesessmenta to dat.e un tha property have amounted to $50,000.
Mr. F.isher plans to keep his own home there. Also, the 2' setback
would not demage the lots at all, and the developmcnt of the land
would bc: beneficial to L•he CSty.
MSP (Haake-FOSS) to reoonunercd to Coixncil upon re.ceipt of a new prelimi-
nary plat drawn up on the Eisher Addition the approval of said new
plan with the follo:uinq stipulationa, that there be nine deaignated
lots, W1th ?,ots 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 dnd 9 be1n9 90' Wide by 211.6'
deep and that Lat 5 be 100' wide x 423.2' deep, and that the plat would
deaignate a 15' easer,.ent off the baclc lot lines on Lots 1, 2, 3, 9,
6, 7, B and 9, for.drainage aae~ement, and Lut 5 wauld g1.ve a 28'
~,asement in the center part of the lot in continuatuion with the easement
ylready on it, except it would be 2' lesa on the western most side
~ ~eeduae oE the pl.acement of the exietiny homestead. There ie also
""`an additional drainage easement of 10' that will be required on the
north lot line oP Lot 3 eatending to the proposed new back lot line.
The shed that will be located on new proposed Lot 6 will have to be
re~n~vad. 7 aYes
1 abst.
-i~-
l Comrcieeion Membor Foss explained that he abetalned on the vote ae
~^'~e hed e confliot of interest.
COMIdERCIAL VEHZCLE PARHIN(i
~ Counciimember eaumgartner reported thaC tho Councii wanta a recommendation
from the Planning Commiesion if thsy wanti to make a zeoommendatinn on
i the oPf-etraet paYking of aommerciul vehiciee~ and if eo, what aize,
weigt~t, et~. Counoilmember eaumgartner etaEed thst he hed beeh driving
i around Mounda View to qat an idea of the commercia]. vehialea involved
, an~9 raoommended ~hat all Commiseion Membors do the eame. He etated
that thare was a wide aseortment o£ vehicles in Mounda View to aonei.der.
Chairperson Haake stakad that it wculd be hnrd to desiqnste vehielee
, by weight or chassie.
'
' Commiesion MemUer 7epper stated it would be hard to claseify the
~ v~hicl~a by weight as some 1/2 ton trucke carried a heavior load and
„ 1 we::e mose unai,yhtly bhan same trucke classiPied in the higher weight
` i categoriee.
r;
G i Commiasion Member Fedor stated that he was intereated in getting rid
, oP the large seml!s.
There was considerable diacuosion among the Commisaion Members as to,
; if commprcial vehicles ehould k~e conaidered with recreational vehiclee
+~ nd whst stan3ards to use in evalixatinq the commarciaZ vahiclas, snd
_...~Jhether commarcla.l vehiale owners would ba di~criminate~l againet
~ iE their vehiales were bannefl but rer.reational vehiclee weren'E.
~
' Chairperaon Haake asked that the Commieaion Membera drive azound
~ Mounds View and that 0£fiaial xose put the topic of ofE-eCreet parkinq
~ of aommercial vehiclas on the agcnda for the next Plannin9 Commiseion '
, meetiny.
;
~ NIETROT.'OLITAN SY5TEM STRTEDSENT
I
~ Of•ficial Roae stat.ed that ho would 11ke to recei.ve comments from the
j Commi.asion Members o» the MetropoliY~n Syetem 6tatement.
~
~ M~P (9urmeiater-Blanchard) to adjourn at 12=45 AM.
; Respectfully submitted,
Pamela Young
Recordinq Seoretary
ti~