HomeMy WebLinkAbout1979-01-10 PC Minutes~ PROCGEDINGS OF TNE PLANNING COMMI35ION
CITY OF MOU~DS VIEW
' RAMSEY COUNTY, MINNESOTA
A ragular maeting of the Diounde View Planning Coffiniasion wae called
to or er by Chairpereott Haake at 7:35 Pt4 on January 10, 1979 at Che
Moun e'Viaw City Hall, 2401 Hlghway 10, Mounds View, Minnesata 55112,
P3embera Preaent;
Chairperaon Haake
Commisaion Memher Blanchard
Commiesioc~ Memher Burmeiater
Commiseion Member Fedor
Gnmmiasion Member Foes
Ca~isaion Member Glazer
Commieeion Memher Quan
Aleo Present:
Building and 2oning Official Rose
Caunailmember Forslund
Chairperaun Haake asked for any correcCiona to the December 13, 1978
meeting minutea,
Mayor McCarty asked that the wording o~ the November 29, 1978 minutee be
changed regarding low income housing. He atated that he was trying to
~~"'`pke the pois~t that frame hames, especially rental onea, it is parti.cularly
!rd to get the ormer to make repaira once they are buile and occupied,
~ 2'n particular when they are federally funded.
Chairperson Aaalce stated that the minutea of the December 13, 1978 seeting
were approved ae read.
DAILEY HOMES - MAJOR SUSDIVISI9N - 7555 GROVELAND RGAD
0£ficial Rose reported thaC the Planning Commiseion first reviewed the
requcst in late 1977, at which time Mr. Thoreon owned juet the eaet half
oE lot 9 and all of lot 8. D1r. Thorson at that time requested three
duplex lota which were subetandard in width, and the Plantting Co~mnission
denied the request for rezonittg and the subdivision becauae the lota did
not meet the size requiremenCS. The Cir.y Council then reviewed the plat,
efter Mr. Thorean stated he s~ould purchc~se 32' to bring the lota closer
eo code.' The City Council tabled the request at that time since thare
were not public 3mpx°ovementa and set an in£ormal mesting for b'ebruary 28,
1478. It waR reaolved at thaC meeti.ng that if' someone wanted to develop,
they wauld provide eheir own servtces. Official R~~e added that aoil
teate were also taken ae tk~at time which found peat at great deptha on
some of Che property, and economicall;r dif.ficult to develop. The City
Council also inEormed Mr. Thoroon st that tine that he w~uld have to bring
his ],oea up to code, i.e., lot ~rontagea, £or approval.
'flcial Rose reported that Mr, Thoreon ~zow has a purchase agreement fox
,e east half of lot 7, which would create two 100 lote fronting Stlver
~ake ~toad and one 198' lot. He added that Mr, Thorson has also propASed
a meane £or. servicing hie land for developmenC.
.January 10, 1979
Page 2
0££icial Roee etated that the rezoninq had been approved for the
~ther lots in this area and, furthor, that Mr. Tliorson's lots notu
r let the minimum aize raquirements. He added that there is an
exietinq utility lino which paesea through Lot 2, rrhich would have
to be moved unlesa it could be built around. The easementa are adequate
Eor dxuinage and public i.mprovemente, and there ie a culvert located above
lot 7 which draina into tha Kxaus Andereon property, and thare is aleo
existing drainage, Official Roea aleo etated that development controle
would include a bond or caeh eacrow for the improvement, plantinga,
buildi.ng alevatione and proposed gradinge and a bond or cash escrow for
the lnt development.
Coir~niseton Member Burmeieter aeked if Mr. Thoreon w~uld skill have two
curb cute and a circular driveway. 0£ficiei Rose replied that he would,
with the front of the lote draining to Silver Lake ~oad.
Conm~iesion Member Glazer aeked what the atat-us was af the drainage on the
east eide of 511ver Lake Road on the Kraus Anderaon property. Official
Roae replied that any existing drainageways would have to be left open or
have a conduit placed over them. Co~nisai.on Member Giazer also aeked where
Che a*ater goea fr.ow Silver Lake Road. Offic3al Rose replied that Silver
Lake Road draina to either eide oS the road and Che natui•al drainage flow
ia in a souY.heasterly d3recti.on, and pointed out on a map the flow of the
drainage.
Mr. Thorson atated L•he only thing he had to add to what Official Rose had
''~tready explained was that he would be putCing 1~t one fire hydrant on
:lver Lake R~ad. Official Rose explained that Staff and the Fire Chief
~-cfave re~uired that if Mr. Thoreon developed al~n9 Silver,Lake Road tiiat
a hydrant was needed.
Commiseion biunber Burmeister pointed out that the aubdivision was denied
on November 9, 1977, yet Mr. Thoraon is preaently buildin~ a home there now.
Offlcial Roae explained that he has the right to pull one permit for one
lot, and that Mr. Ttioreon has placed the home on the lot to allow for
future development. Official Rose added that the attorn~y has determined
th~t an applicant has the le al right to pull a perwit f4r one h.ome as
lonq as it did not hamper fu~ure development of the total property.
Leonard Kramer stated he was representing hia ~arents who own lote 1 and 2.
Mr. Kramer atated that hia parenl•s had been at the meeting l~et February
suFporting che inetallati.un of aervicea by ehe City. He added that thera
were only a few people in oppoaition to having the City put the eervices
in at thak t~me. ldr.'Kramer explained that he and his partata have nothing
againat Dailey Homea aince he feels the development would be in both theia•
best intereat and the City's, but if Mr. T.horeon puts his own servicee in,
it could cost them up to another $10,000 to put their services in.
Chairperaon Haake asked if Mr. Kramer would like all Che property oomera to
put in servioes now. Mr. Kramer replied that he would like a11 of them to
get involved now. He added that the water inatallation would not be too
coatly but the sanitary sewer would be.
s. Kramer stated ehe was afraid that if Mr. Thorson put his own ~ervices
, and she put her own service in, and aince they are at different eleva-
~Eione, they could not connect and would thue leave Lhe middle prn~~erCy
ownere ouC. She added, though, that Che middle property ownere had been
sgainat having the servicea put in since thsir loea were not buildable.
January 10, 19J9
Paga 3
~~~£icial Fose explained that ori.ginelly, when Mr. Thoreon requested the
lbdivieion, it was abvioue that public improvemente wera needed, which te
why thr. Council held the public nearing and had eoil teete taken, What
came out of thAt meeting was that the Councii left if up Go the tndfviduals
Lhat if they wantad co build, they wnuld t~ave t~ aarvica L-heir property
themeelvea. He added that a peeition with 35 percent of the property
ownere signatures had not been submitted, ae required, for Che City to
consider putting in tke aervicea.
Mz. Thoraon at~ted that the feaeioility atudy which wae done ataCed that
i~ was nnt feasible to hnve the City put the servicea in aince not all
the lote were accessible, and thue would no[ be coet eff.icienk L-o put
them in.
M~. Kramer atated that he did not believe the lote o~ere undevel.opable.
He explained that while they might be now, ha felt they would be cor~si-
dered developable in Liie LaCUre.
Chairpersan I{aske etated she'ceuld see both eides, eince Mr. Thuraon
is ready to develop his three lote and ie willing to put hie aervices in,
yet ehe Krawere want ehe whole ayatew put in.
Official Roae advisad that if the Kramera would like the City to put
the services in, they get up a petition wtth the required 35 percent.
Mra. Kramer replied that she didn't think she could get the required 35
~~'~ercent .
i
`'G~ommiseion :Sember Foss stated that the i~sue had been discussed eeveral
times the previous year and that the Council had turned down putting in
the sarvices because of the property owners who did not Leel they would
value from it.
Official Rose stated thnt the other option open to the Kramers would be
to service their lote off Groveland, which would require ejectora,
He also stated that for the Ci.l•y to puC service in, it was esttmated to
be approximately $58 per frontage fo~r for both sewer and watar.
Mr, Kramer etated he didn't feel he could put the sexvices in for the
price the City could. ,hairperaon Hanke aeked him if he had worked out
T.he cont i£ all six preperty ownere put the improvements in. Mr. Kramer
replied that he hadn't but he atill felt it wnuld be higher than if the
City put tliem in.
Mr. Thoraon pointed out that he had paid for a professiona7. engineer,
who calculated actual expenses, not ~cti.mates. ~Ie aleo etated that he
had tald the Krauiers they could hook into his system. H~ slso puinted
out that if he put hts own servicea in, he would not be harming the
Kramere at all, or any other praperty owner.
Official Rose explained tYiat there are two waye of having pubLi.c improve-
ments put in, ¢ither by submitting a petition of 35 percent for Council
~ nsideration and approval, or the Council, on ies own by unanimous vote,
`~..,.dn order the pro,ject itt, He adde.d that if they cannot gQt ehe requir.ed 35
percent b~.it etill have aevaraL ownera intereuted, the Council can r.econ-
aider the ie~tue if they dealre, further recommendinq that tl~oy attond
the publlc heuring in which the City Councll would reconsider the pint.
January 10, 1979
~1. Kramar stated ha doee not want ro delay Mr.
lt doee want to facilJ.tate their own eexvicea.
Cammiesion delay action until thei.r next meeting
work something out.
Page 4
Thoreon's development
He asked that the Planning
Co allow mora time to
Cammieaion Member Burmeister p~lnted out that eewer services are not in
the Planning Commiesion'e realm but rather in the Councils, and that they
cannot lagally hold Mr. Thoraon up eince he hae met ail tha requiremente
e~acifiad, and that the Planning Comm~esion muet act on the request,
Mr, Kramer etnted that it ~.e the responeibility nf the Planning Co~nigsion
to provide or ineure tha orderly development of the co~unity. Commiaslon
Member Burmeieter raplied that Mr. Thorson has met all the r:.quizemenCa
and that he hae gona through boththe Planning Coimniaeion and ~ity Council
already , and the Planning Commiesion doeen't have any ground to stand on
for holding him up. She recommended that the Kramers cone in and oee the
Council.
OfEicial Rose poinced our. that.Mr. Thoraon wae directed by the Council
to cseate code canforming lots and ser,vice hie own property if he wanted
to develop, and lie has wet tl~ose requiremente, lle added thae he did not
eee any reaeun where the Planning Commieaion had strong grounde for tabling
the iaeue, but the City Council could cor.sider the alternat.ivea.
Chairper~on Hsake statQd she felt the aervices should be put iu the mnet
~~onomical way but that Mr. Thorsan has conformed to all the re4uirementa
~~~d met everything Che Council has requeated of him,
Commieaion Member Glazer ntated he felt the Ci.ty Council would rely on
the expertise of tha engineer and Buildiag Official.
Co~iseion Member Qua^. aeked how Mr. Thoraon planned on handling the soil
problems. Mr. Thorson replied that there is no soil prob.lem ~n the pro-
perty he wtl! be developing, He stated thah it is buildable, and on the
lar.ge lot, he will be building Che home on good soil and putting a gArden
ia on the queationable area.
Commisaion Member Fedor stated he felt the requeatshould go on to the
Council. He also stated he was curious that i£ Mr. Thorson could afford
to service his lote, wh,y the other property ownere could noC afford to
alsa.
Mr, Kremer replied that they would have to tie into tl~e system elsewhere,
which would eignificant].y increaae their cost. He stated that he ltad
zetimate3 the coat to be 51b,000 to aervice the two lote wlth juse sevTer.
Commission Member Fedor pointed out that with the Kramers 232' on Silver
Lake Road, the C3ty coet of sewer nnd wuter would be $13,400, and allowing
for a 10 percent increase in cost this year, would be roughly $15,000 for
the Ci,ty.
~ ~iaeion Member Foss atatad he would be in £avor o£ reaummending approval
'~! the plat to the City Council, unlese the City could act prompCly r.o
brittg sewer and water down the whole street. Hc poineed out, tteough, that
the City had turned in dowm last year a£ter spending money on roil teets.
January 10, 1979
Page 5
~iseion Kember BurmaisCer etatad 6he agrae@ that it ehould go onto Che
uncil,
Commieaion Membar Blanchard also agraed that it ahould go on to the Council.
81ie added ehat Mr, Tharaoa has done everything he hae been asked to.
Commieeion Member ~uan etated that he could not give a good comment eince
he wae con£ueed by ehe iesue and did not have encugh infarmation to make
aenee.
Chairperson Haaka eta~ed that she agreed the iesue ehould go on to the Coun-
cil aince Mr. Thoraon had met aIl the requirement~. She also recommended
that the Kramere get a petiti.on of 35 percent to the Council right away,
Officisl Ruse reported that if Che isaue goes on to the Council, a public
hearing ~i21 be he2d and th_ ~eorle n~tixi.ed. Offi.cial Rose pointed out
on e map where Che lots in question are and where aewer and water servi.cea
ara in t.he axea,
Mx. Thorson pointed out that the City Counr.ll had di.rected him to prepare
a etudy, which he did, and the Qouncil approved it and sent him back to
the Planning Coamniseian becauee of the lot ei~e changes.
Councilmember Forelund stated ritat at the time of the public hearing last
ear, Mr. Tobiason sl•ated he had tried to give his land to the City, and
~+~'ye Council had said at that time that devel.opers ahould put in their own
t~rvices.
Chai_rpereon Haake recommended that the noticea for the rablic hearin
be aent to everyone owninq Erontaqe on Silver Lake Roa~ betweon Hro[~son
and County Road I weetside.
Commission Member Glazer qaestioned why Staff steted R-2 developwent wauld
be better than R-l on Silver Lake Road and queationed -why the impact of
heavy traffic would be woree for R-1 thar. R-2, r,hairnerson Haake replied
that the R-2 would be uaed for a buffer zone.
MSP (Fase-Burmeister) to recocmtend approval of the preliminary plaC of
Dailey Hamen, dated December 15, 1978, 7555 Groveland Road, with the
rezociing £rom [t-1 to R-2 0£ lote 1, 2 and 3, with lot 4 remaining R-1,
aubJecC ta enCering into a development agreement with the City. 6 ayes
1 abetain
Commiesion Member Quan etated lie was ahecaining from tYie vote se he could
nnt mxke a fair judeement.
Comniseion Tlember Foea stated that he would recommend to the Council to
elso coneider the requesL oE the Kramers and other partiea on the north
Eour lots, to recone3der brinq sewer and water services to the remaining
prcaperty along Silver Lake Road up to County Road I,
Chairpez•son klaake reported that Official Roae had prepared the ordinance
zevieions to Secl•ion 40.07, Su~~ D. 8, E and j, ae requeated b,y the
Planning Cap¢ni.autoa.
Mn... ,
h~.
Janu+xry 10, 1979 Paga 6
~mmienion Mamber Blanchard eCatad that Staff had done an exaell.ent ~ob
i preparing the ordinance rsviaion.
Commiesion Member Foss aekad wh,y 125' was raferred to in ehe reviaion
eince moet lots ara 85' wide. Official Raae replied that it was becauad
it ie an exieting raqui.rement in Ghe coda,
MSP (kisake-IIurmeieter) to recommand to the Council that they inetitute
tha recommended changee that are liated in the memo of January 6, 1979
from the Building and Zoning 0£ficial to the Planning Commieeion regarding
40.07 Subd. D, 8, f and j reviaione. 7 ayee
Chai.rperaon Haake read a letter from Glen Westarheim, 7.286 Broneon Drive,
which ehe raceived ~unt beforo tha meetin~ began, in which Mr. Waetc~rheim
atated hie apinion of developmenL in MounJe View and how iC ehould occur,
roEerring to en article from the November 13, 1978 ieeue of Time Magazine.
Chairpereon Haake statad that Mr. Westerheim had given her copiae for tha
Council and athexa, whiciz eiia would ba pasainE out.
NEXT AGENDA AND PREVZOUS CITY COUNCZT ACTIONS
Councilmember Forslund reported that Spring Lake Park hne requestad a etop
light be put in u~ Highway 10 end Pleasant View. Mayor MeCarty dre~a a
aketoh of what Spring Lake Park hae requested and stated that they would
ve mare inforciation wlthin the next two weeks.
~eirpereon Haa~Ce reported ahe would be out of tuwn for the January 24
maeting. ~
Commieeion Member Qssan etated he would also be absent from tha January' 24
meeting.
~
Commieeion Member Glazer stated he felt there were mora and more rezoninge
from R-I to R-2, or owner occupied to rental.
MSP (Burmaieter-Blanchard) to adjourn the meeting at 9:00 PM. 7 ayes
Respectfully eubmitted,
, Steven A, Roee
Building and Zoaing Of£icia7.
~
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