HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-05-2000PROCEEDINGS OF THE MOUNDS VIEW PLANNING COMMISSION
CITY OF MOUNDS VIEW
RAMSEY COUNTY, MINNESOTA
Regular Meeting
July 5, 2000
Mounds View City Hall
2401 Highway 10, Mounds View, MN 55112
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1. Call to Order
The meeting was called to order by Acting Chairperson Stevenson at 7:02 p.m., July 5, 2000.
2. Roll Call
Members Present: Acting Chairperson Stevenson, Commissioners Berke, Hegland, Johnson,
Kaden, Miller, and Thomas.
Members Absent: Chairperson Peterson and Commissioner Laube (excused)
Also Present: Planner Jim Ericson, Community Development Director Rick Jopke and Council
Liaison Stigney.
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Index to Minutes Page
Local Water Management Plan Update 2
Planning Case ZC00-002, 2387 Highway 10. Public Hearing and Discussion 4
Regarding a Planned Unit Development (PUD) for a Walgreens Drugstore
at the Northeast Corner of Highway 10 and Edgewood Drive.
TOLD Development Company, Represented by Terry Moses.
Special Planning Case SP-079-00. Discussion Regarding the First Draft of 14
Ordinance 664, an Ordinance Amending Chapter 1106 of the Mounds View
Zoning Code Pertaining to Permitted and Conditionally Permitted
Accessory Buildings.
Staff Reports / Items of Information 17
Chairperson and Planning Commissioners Reports 17
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3. Citizens’ Requests and Comments on Items Not on the Agenda
There were no citizen requests or comments on items not on the agenda.
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 2
4. Approval of Minutes
A. May 17, 2000
MOTION/SECOND: Miller/Kaden to approve the May 17, 2000 meeting minutes as corrected.
Ayes - 7 Nays - 0 The motion carried.
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5. Local Water Management Plan Update
Rocky Keehn, of SEH, Inc., explained that the goal for the evening is to receive any last
feedback from the Commission before update goes to the City Council worksession. The plan
incorporates comments made in previous meetings, descriptions on maps are more detailed, and
Watershed descriptions have been added. Mr. Keehn advised that a few more edits may need to
be made; also, highway descriptions would need to be consistent with the Comprehensive Plan
update.
Commissioner Miller pointed out that Figures 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10 were not clear. Mr. Keehn
explained the final plan would be in color. He had not made color copies to conserve on costs.
Commissioner Miller commented that Pages 3 and 17 discuss land uses and how Mounds View
has developed and stabilized. She questioned if anything should be included regarding
“redevelopment” issues, as the City is concerned about redevelopment. Mr. Keehn agreed that
the issue could be further addressed.
Commissioner Miller stated although there is not a great deal of land left to be developed, there
are redevelopment processes going on that should be included.
Commissioner Hegland asked what they would consider redevelopment in regard to this plan.
Mr. Keehn advised that if redevelopment in this plan entailed open space, there could be a
negative impact on the City’s hydrology. For example, if a commercial business goes to
industrial or vice versa, there would probably not be that much of an impact. However, if one-
acre lots are converted to ¼ acre lots, those are the kind of redevelopment scenarios that could
have an impact on the plan and some of its assumptions. He said they could expand this area if
the Commission would like.
Commissioner Hegland stated they should be specific as to how redevelopment is defined in
terms of the Watershed.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson stated if a building’s footprint is not going to change it is not
really a redevelopment issue for Water Management.
Commissioner Hegland noted if the square footage of a home is doubled it is considered
redevelopment, however, he does not think it would be necessary to put that in this plan.
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 3
Mr. Keehn advised that he has seen an occurrence in many communities where 20 to 30 homes
were previously built with a house and possibly a garage, and are now built with a house, a
double garage, a barn in the back, and the patio. This could impact the storm sewer systems with
street flooding, a low spot that never used to flood could begin flooding. He advised a lot of
plans do not address that, but that may be a problem in the future if redevelopment increases the
impervious surface areas. Mr. Keehn noted that if everyone in the Watershed District were to
build a new house and a double garage, there would be problems.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson inquired if they should expand on the redevelopment issue in the
plan.
Mr. Keehn said if he read this plan the way it is, it would imply that conditions have not and will
not change. Perhaps the plan should explain that although planned development may basically
stay the same, there could be other issues related to redevelopment. He suggested that as people
look for changes in their property, they should look at the “big picture” and see what the
potential impact is.
Commissioner Hegland stated he finds it hard to believe that a typical homeowner in Mounds
View would have an impact on this. Even if everyone increased the size of his or her building by
50 percent, he cannot believe it would affect this to that large of a degree that it would have to be
dealt with. Commissioner Hegland suggested, perhaps, the types of things to be included would
be a change of the topography of the property or large projects, such as big parking lots or
something similar. He said he would like to make sure that the plan does not restrict homeowner
development in any way, but rather keep it restricted to the larger projects.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson pointed out that in Mounds View, redevelopment is an issue, and
it is becoming more and more of an issue. He concurred with Commissioner Miller that they are
really not addressing redevelopment in this document. He stated it should be addressed that
water management should consider redevelopment, as it is an issue in Mounds View.
Mr. Keehn said the way the plan reads now is that it almost implies that the system is good and
everything will be okay. However, it sounds like some redevelopment issues could cause
potential negative impacts and they should be addressed in the plan. He stated he will add some
additional language to flag that point and to let people know that there is a concern.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson said there are definitely some issues with redevelopment. If they
were to redevelop a large parcel that happens to be a mobile home park, the implications to water
management would be great. He stated some development will happen in the City and he
believes the plan needs a statement regarding it.
Mr. Keehn said he would work with Staff to develop language that reflects both sides of this
concern. He added this would not include anything that would restrict a property owner from
constructing a garage.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson directed Staff to draft a resolution for the next meeting.
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 4
______________________________________________________________________________
6. Planning Case ZC00-002
Property Involved: 2387 Highway 10
Public Hearing and Discussion Regarding a Planned Unit Development (PUD) for a Walgreens
Drugstore at the Northeast Corner of Highway 10 and Edgewood Drive. Applicant: TOLD
Development Company (Represented by Terry Moses)
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The applicant’s representative was present.
Planner Ericson gave the staff report as follows:
Bob Cunningham, of TOLD Development Company, has made application for Planned Unit
Development to develop the parcel commonly referred to as the remnant parcel, and a portion of
the open space referred to as the Midland Videen property. The Planned Unit Development is to
construct a Walgreens and a restaurant, which is tentatively planned to be a Culver's restaurant.
The remaining eight acres would be deeded to the City with the development of this proposal.
He commented this has been discussed with the Planning Commission at the last couple of
meetings and there have been some very significant and long discussions on this subject. He
also informed the Commission that Mr. Cunningham was not able to attend the meeting but that
Terry Moses would be able to address any questions.
Planner Ericson indicated that the revised site plan shows a trailway along the Highway 10 right
of way. It shows the existing sidewalk being extended down to Highway 10 from the
Community Center. A trailway connecting from the Highway 10 trail would be constructed
through the open space and terminating at the Community Center parking lot. The plans to have
a trailway encircling the wetland have been eliminated due to the impacts to the wetland. As the
Commission is aware, the wetland does go right up to the property by the Community Center and
is very tight to the property line as proposed for both of the developable lots. The exact location
of the trailway is not set in stone, other than it would be located between the relocated
stormwater pond and the existing wetlands.
Planner Ericson advised that they had discussed with Ramsey County Traffic Engineer Dan
Soler about the proposed right-in access off of Highway 10. While Mr. Soler is not in the
position to approve the proposed plans because the County has not yet obtained ownership of the
highway, it was his consideration that if they were to be the custodians of Highway 10 that the
right-in access would be allowed with minimal improvements to the shoulder to support the
added traffic. The other issue discussed with Dan Soler was the location of the proposed
trailway along Highway 10. The developer was indicating that to make the project work they
would need to maximize the site area and would have a difficult time putting in the trailway and
the amount of space on either side of the trailway on their property. Mr. Soler felt the Highway
10 right-of-way would not be an inappropriate location for a trailway, so long as it would be as
far away from the driving surface as possible. There is approximately 50 feet of open space in
between the pavement and the property line, some of which is used for drainage and storm water
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 5
purposes. As long as the trailway does not encroach or change the drainage pattern, or take up
area that would be utilized for drainage or the holding of storm water, there would not be a
problem whatsoever. In terms of providing a trailway along Highway 10, what shows on this
plan can be accomplished.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson noted he thinks this trailway issue is something that will be in
discussion all along Highway 10 and this is just the first of the City's discussions with the County
as far as going within the right-of-way. The City was not going to encroach on property owners,
they would actually encroach into the old right-of-way. He said he is happy to hear that a
trailway all along Highway 10 should not be a problem once the state has turned over the county
roads.
Planner Ericson advised that another issue regarding trailways dealt with pedestrian safety.
While there is the marked pedestrian crosswalk on the north side of Edgewood Drive, there is no
pedestrian crosswalk across Highway 10 on the south side of Edgewood Drive where the
Walgreens and proposed Culver’s would be located. The developer indicated that it would be a
good idea and Staff concurred that there should be some kind of landscaping alongside the
trailway that would be in the right-of-way to prevent people from crossing in an unmarked area.
They could add some physical and perceived impediments so pedestrians would not cross at that
location. Planner Associate Ericson acknowledged that people will cross where they want
regardless, however, landscaping and something decorative could deter enough people to make a
difference.
Commissioner Miller inquired what kind of material the trailway within the right-of-way would
be. Ericson said it has been discussed to be 7-foot wide paved bituminous trail, similar to the
one across the street, and would be maintained by the City.
Planner Ericson advised it looks as though it would be a sufficient area and there would not need
to be any filling or grading to put in this trail. It is 50 feet wide and the ditch comprises
approximately 30 feet of that, so there is sufficient space and it is even possible to put in some
low profile plantings along the trailway. He stated there were also discussions of putting in
decorative lighting which could be located on either side of the trail. He indicated that Mike
Ulrich, Director of Public Works, is working with Northern States Power for some lighting ideas,
and they do have two different styles of light fixtures that are planned for installation on
Edgewood Drive. Those styles could also be incorporated into a trailway that could carry over to
the wetland, however, that has not been discussed yet.
Planner Ericson advised there have been no changes or additions to the site plan other than
showing the trailways. Also, they are still waiting on the final plan for the drainage. The City
Engineer has worked with the developer's engineers and they have all the information they need
to determine how big the relocated stormwater holding pond should be, where the storm sewer
should be located, and the proper elevations. All that information is in the hands of the
developer’s engineer and will be forthcoming; there should not be any issues that will be
unresolved. He explained the pond would be sized to fit the area that’s there. It will not be sized
to accommodate 100% of the flow coming through the storm sewer under Edgewood Drive, but
would be sized to handle all the flow from Culver’s and Walgreens, the flow from the City Hall
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 6
parking lot, and the existing volume of the pond. It would also take on much of the storm water
that is running through the existing storm sewer on Edgewood Drive, which currently flows
untreated under Highway 10. The intent is to take stormwater off Edgewood Drive and get it
filtered and cleansed before sending it back into the system. The pond would be sized to utilize
the uplands that are available, not 100% of the volume. He stated he thinks this is a great benefit
to the City, that they can look at ponding from a more regional perspective, rather than on a
single development scenario. It should reduce the possibility of downstream flooding and will
be a water quality benefit for the City as well.
Planner Ericson advised the preliminary plat in the staff report indicated the plat would be named
Mounds View City Hall Addition. There are no changes to the plat, and copies will be made
available at the next meeting. The easement area for the sign was discussed concerning rights to
the sign easement area where the Bel Rae ballroom sign was. When the City purchased the Bel
Rae ballroom and constructed the Community Center they also took over ownership of that
easement area. He explained it is likely the City would vacate that easement area and if there is a
need to create another area for signage purposes they could address that issue on its own at some
point in the future, rather than trying to retain some portion of the existing easement area to meet
the needs of the second developable lot. A vacation of the original Edgewood Drive right of way
would also be required and is shown on the plat as being vacated. The wetland area would be
covered by an easement, something that Rice Creek Watershed District would require, and given
that it would become the City’s property he does not think there would be an issue with
dedicating an easement. If the City is the deed holder, an easement may not even be required.
Planner Ericson reported the Rice Creek Watershed District has reviewed the plans and because
of the improvement to the water quality and additional ponding and storm water capacity they
are very excited about this plan. They have indicated that as soon as the final specifications are
forwarded to them it should be approved.
Planner Ericson advised the developer is proposing 146 parking spaces. The City Code requires
a little more than that, however, there is a benefit of having both uses side by side. There would
be a cross access in parking easement granted so that in times of peak use patrons from either
parcel could use the other’s parking. Staff felt that would compensate for the deficiency in
parking. One of the intents of the Planned Unit Development process is that they look at these
issues and determine if there are creative ways to address specific requirements, such as parking
and setbacks in ways that are not normally handled by the zoning code. The Planned Unit
Development process allows the City to deal with them in a more creative and beneficial way
that would allow for development to occur in an area where it might otherwise not occur.
Planner Ericson indicated that staff had contracted with a commercial appraiser to appraise both
the City’s remnant parcel and also on the eight acres that would be transferred to the City. He
noted that Staff had handed out a copy of the summary page which shows the valuations on the
land. The appraisal indicates that the City’s parcel has a $166,000 value while the eight acres of
Midland Videen property is valued at $161,000. It is very similar in terms of value, which is
presuming that it could be developed as a stand-alone parcel. If the two parcels were joined
together and appraised, the value of the two parcels combined would be more than their parts.
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 7
Regarding public notification for this meeting, Planner Ericson informed the Commission that
staff sent out approximately 360 notices and are doing all they can to get the word out. He
reported they put much information on the City’s website about the development proposal,
including a copy of the last staff report. They also put a notice in the Mounds View Matters,
which was just recently delivered to residents. He stated the City is trying to assure they obtain
as much input as possible. From this meeting, he hoped to be able to have a resolution drafted
subject to the information that has been presented from him, the public, and the developer. The
resolution could either represent approval or denial of this development proposal and could be
prepared for the next Commission meeting.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson opened the public hearing at 7:43 p.m.
Kyle Longstead, 7901 Edgewood Drive, questioned if the City would put an Embers up in this
location knowing that there is an Embers by Northown. He compared this to putting in another
Walgreens so close to the one by Northtown. He feels they are saturating the area with similar
product with the possibility of another empty building two or three years down the road.
Commissioner Johnson responded that according to law they cannot deny another drug store
because they already have one. Mr. Longstead said he understands that, however, he hopes some
thought has gone into what they are developing. He stated he is a worried they are going to have
an empty building that no one will rent or buy.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson said this issue was a big concern, especially when Walgreens was
going to go in on County Road I, which was the original proposal and was even closer to
Northtown. He stated they asked the same question of saturation to the developer and he
convinced them that the drug stores are two-fold. Walgreens relies on local people who can
walk to it, and there are a lot of senior citizens in the area. Also, it will be the destination of
people driving northwest on Highway 10. He explained the developer wanted a Walgreens
location with easy access. That is why they wanted the location on this side of the Highway. He
stated that in answer to Mr. Longstead's question, the developer convinced most of the
Commission that it would be an viable operation in this location.
Commissioner Kaden stated he attended a land use and planning seminar where a presenter who
taught the seminar had practiced in land use law for over 30 years. She informed them it actually
violates the U.S. Constitution in some way for them to determine they cannot have a Walgreens
here because there is one down the road. He explained if they meet all the conditions, the
Commission cannot consider the close location issue.
Mr. Longstead noted it is not Walgreens in particular he has a problem with, he has a problem
with the saturation. Commissioner Kaden said he understands that, he grew up in Mounds View
and every time a new gas station went up on Highway 10 another one went out of business. He
did not understand why they kept adding more. However, he learned the Council and Planning
Commission cannot say there are too many gas stations and they are not going to approve
another one.
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 8
Commissioner Thomas stated she would like to clarify they are not discussing a problem of law,
as this is not a private property for sale. There is no problem of law when this is City property
they would be trading. It is their job as the Planning Commission to determine if this is the
proper use for City property and whether or not they would like to trade that land to be
developed into retail property. She explained that, at this point, being City property, there is NO
law requiring them to allow any development whatsoever, so they should be very careful quoting
Constitutional references in deciding whether or not they want to develop this land.
Commissioner Thomas also commented that this is the opportunity to hear the community voice
on whether or not they want to see a building put up across the street from the City Hall. There
is no U.S. Constitution violation for someone to come and say they do not want to see a building
here that could go out of business.
Commissioner Johnson stated they also had many community meetings on what types of uses
should be sought in Mounds View and a lot of it was restaurants and another drug store. That is
why they are seeing this development going forward.
Commissioner Thomas responded she is not against the possibility of this land being developed,
however, it is their responsibility to decide what is there and no one should be saying at this
point that they have to allow a Walgreens because that is not the case. The City can decide
whether or not to trade the land for that development.
Commissioner Johnson stated Commissioner Thomas is correct, but if they did not allow
Walgreens here he would guarantee Walgreens would not go away, they would be back in
another spot of this highway.
Commissioner Thomas said that is their responsibility as a corporation, but the Planning
Commission should decide if it should be there.
Commissioner Kaden stated they do not have to trade the City lot for them to develop this
Walgreens. Mr. Videen, however, wants to sell his property and those 3 ½ acres of upland
behind the residents' houses can be developed subject to the wetlands. He stated he personally
would think that woods behind the houses and open wetlands with a Walgreens on this site
would be more palatable than a development stuck in their backyards.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson clarified Mr. Longstead's concerns as being saturation and the
possibility of an empty building a few years from now. He said he appreciates that concern,
which would be a concern of anyone, including the Commission. Acting Chairperson Stevenson
stated that, at this time, he feels good about the situation and does not feel they will have an
empty building in the near future.
Doris Hamline, 3034 Ardmore, asked if this had been brought to Springsted, the consultant
group hired to help with redevelopment and safety issues along Highway 10. Community
Development Director Jopke said they are aware of it.
Ms. Hamline said it seems they have concurrent discussions going on. She pointed out that the
community public meeting is July 11th where it will be discussed what the community would like
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 9
to see happen as far as redevelopment and safety issues. Ms. Hamline suggested the City can put
in all the lights and sidewalks they want but that is not going to safely transport the people they
are hoping to draw into Walgreens and Culver’s. This would include the senior citizens and kids
who will walk there and cross that highway to get to the movie theater and the Community
Center. They may have sidewalks on either side of the street, but they still have one big open
highway that they need to cross. She stated it has not been crossed safely once, and questioned
how many more times will it not be crossed safely if they continue to draw more cars and more
businesses into the area without fully addressing the safety issue of that highway.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson responded that safety is a real concern which they have discussed
and they would not allow a development to go in without addressing how Highway 10 can be
maintained more safely. Acting Chairperson Stevenson stated they would not want to see
another accident happen and they will address it, to make sure the developer has that foremost
issue in mind before they see development go through.
Ms. Hamline stated she thinks safety going back and forth across that road needs to be addressed,
which she has not heard much discussion about.
Terry Moses, representative of Midland Videen, said he would like to add a little more comfort
to any concerns about Walgreens. He explained Walgreens looks at a site based on the
population in a one-mile radius; so some stores might be two miles apart. It is farther than that to
Northtown and they are not worried at all about not having enough business. He stated they will
be signing a 20-year lease with options to extend, so they will be occupying that building for at
least 20 years. Mr. Moses stated they have done an extensive study of this site and board
approval was very positive.
In response to questions, Mr. Moses reviewed the Culver’s hours of operation, and advised they
will employ approximately 25 full time employees with 10 to 14 being on duty at a time. Out of
the roughly 75 Walgreens in the Twin Cities, he advised that only 10 are 24-hour operations and
they are in high-density areas. It is not anticipated that this would be a 24-hour store. He
reviewed the hours of operation and advised Walgreens will have 12 full time employees and 30
part time employees. It will generate 600 to 800 car trips per day, and because they like to be on
well-traveled roads, a lot of the cars will be people passing by the site anyway. The drive-up
window cannot be used for picking up anything other than prescriptions.
He assured the Planning Commission they will do a very good job in landscaping and will meet
the City's requirements. He noted the site plan with dimensions and two signage proposals, one
was pylon and one was monument. Mr. Moses stated he believes the City indicated they prefer a
monument sign and that was agreed with today.
Mr. Moses presented the site plan, noting the locations of pathways, ponds, and parcels to be
traded.
Commissioner Kaden inquired if the three small detention areas were still necessary because of
the larger pond.
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 10
Planner Ericson advised they have not discussed the specifics, however, it could be the case that
those small basins would not be required for infiltration purposes. They could provide for
additional infiltration for the site and create some additional opportunity to filter sedimentation
utilizing the best management practice that Rice Creek Watershed prefers. He said he thinks, at
this point, that Mr. Moses is accurate in saying they are not necessary, however, he is not aware
if they are going to be provided. Planner Ericson explained they would not retain any water but
be a place for water to go during a heavy rainfall and there is no reason they cannot be
landscaped.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson asked if the square footage and appearance of this building would
be similar to the store at Northtown. Mr. Moses explained the proposed store is 14,500 square
feet. He stated it would be difficult to tell the difference but this store might be more like the
store on University Avenue.
Commissioner Kaden inquired how the developer might feel about putting some pine trees by the
drive-up window to block the amplified sound some of the residents have expressed concern
about. Mr. Moses responded if that is agreeable to everyone else they would agree. He
commented that the p.a. system however would not be audible to anyone but the person in the
car.
Commissioner Hegland asked if the drug store and restaurant could be better aligned with each
other in order to fit in additional parking. Mr. Moses responded that the area where most of the
cars come in should be wider rather than narrower, so it may be difficult to do.
Commissioner Hegland commented they discussed having the trailway along Highway 10 extend
all the way to the extended sidewalk on Edgewood Drive. He asked what the plan is on the
entrance to mark that for anyone using the trail, as it goes right across the entrance area. Planner
Ericson responded there has not been significant thought as to how to deal with that other than
some kind of signage being installed. He advised they will be looking at that not only here but
all through the City as the Highway 10 trail corridor system gets implemented.
Commissioner Hegland inquired if they are looking at designating that as a pedestrian crosswalk
area. Planner Ericson responded something like that could be utilized, however, the problem is
people coming off the highway, and he is not sure if it would be in the best interest of traffic to
make it stop. He agreed, however, that it should be examined.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson commented one of the things he has seen happen in busy
intersections is to curve or job the bike path to slow bikers down. He explained that a berm or
something at the end would require people to slow down. Planner Ericson said that is a
wonderful suggestion and could be incorporated. As the trailway approaches Edgewood Drive,
instead of meeting up at a 90 degree angle, it curves in at the right-of-way so people have to slow
down or stop.
Commissioner Hegland stated he does not think they should do anything that would obstruct a
driver's visibility of that intersection, as that view will likely be more valuable. Mr. Moses
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 11
suggested they discuss the geometrics of the right-in so it is not just like an exit ramp on the
freeway but would force people to slow down.
A resident of St. Stephen Street said she does a lot of walking and the way Edgewood Drive is
planned now she worries about people using it as a freeway. She stated she also worries, as they
discuss putting in a trailway, that a lot of people will have to watch their step as they enter or
come out with bikes, walking, or pushing children with a cart. She suggested there has to be
some jog where they are not directed into the line of traffic.
Planner Ericson said there was a discussion earlier this afternoon regarding having a bend with
more of a radial meeting of the sidewalk to tie into the applicant's property, rather than having
the trailway meet up with the sidewalk at a 90-degree angle. He explained there could also be a
pedestrian crossing, not right up to the right-of-way to Highway 10, but back 15 feet to allow for
greater visibility for pedestrians, bikers and vehicles.
Commissioner Miller inquired if the City Council already made the decision to trade this land.
Planner Ericson explained the Council had not specifically decided this but authorized Staff to
explore this and he does not believe there was any type of limited negotiation or purchase
agreement. The only thing the City did was act as a signer on the application so it could proceed
and be considered. He explained the Council granted Staff the ability to process the application.
Commissioner Thomas stated she feels they are discussing two different issues. The first is the
issue of whether the developer will be able to work with the limitations and guidelines of the
City to the Planning Commission’s sufficient desire. She stated she has seen every indication the
developer will go to the utmost lengths to do what they would like them to do. However, the
other issue they are talking about is a basic trade. Commissioner Thomas stated she fully
understands why Mr. Videen wants to sell his property. She commented that what she has not
been convinced of, is what the City is getting in return being better than what they have now.
She commended Staff for providing the values of the properties which helps immensely.
Commissioner Thomas suggested it looks as though the properties are equal. However, in order
to convince her this is what she wants, she has to be convinced that a retail property located
across from City Hall is appropriate, and she is not convinced of that. She stated that issue
would have to be answered before she would feel comfortable saying they should trade.
Commissioner Johnson stated they discussed at length two months ago what they would gain,
which would be a lot greater than what they have. They now have a corner lot and a pond in the
center for a holding pond. He noted the City would gain a much larger holding pond, water
filtration, wetland credits, and a park with a walkway.
Commissioner Thomas stated she is very close, however, everything they would gain from that
property would have to be matched by what they would lose by losing this property and putting
retail on it. She stated this property does add to the beautification of this area and creates a
“community feel” which they would lose if they gave it up. Commissioner Thomas stated it
would also break up the continuity of this property. She questioned if that is worth what they
would gain.
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 12
Planner Ericson stated he does not feel they can go through the merits of the transaction on a
point by point basis regarding the positives and negatives in the next five minutes. He noted
however that there would be tax consequences that would benefit the City tremendously, not to
mention the fact that if this does not go forward they would retain the land but could potentially
lose the eight acres that is right now a very pristine natural wetland and upland area. He stated in
his personal opinion, the remnant parcel is a great piece of land with the pond in it, but he would
much rather save the woods and the wetland and the eight acres. Granted, the wetland cannot go
away as they are protected, however, certainly the 3 1/2 acres of developable land could be
developed commercially. Planner Ericson stated the Planning Commission can talk about if the
City could have purchased the land, but now the proposal is before them and they can either act
now or live with the consequences.
Commissioner Thomas stated this property has been for sale and on the market for eight years
and she wonders exactly how developable it is. She said she does not see any imminent danger
of this property going to something they cannot stand anytime in the near future, as it is going to
have to go to what would work well on the property.
Commissioner Thomas said if it comes down to working with the developer she has been
incredibly impressed with the desire of this developer. The question is what the community
wants.
Planner Ericson agreed these are very weighty issues that have to balance out.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson commented they are not only talking about Walgreens, but also a
Culver’s Restaurant. Since putting this on television, he stated people have told him they want to
have the Culver’s Restaurant since it is a favorite family-restaurant of many. He noted that when
the theater developed, it was to have a Chili's Restaurant, which was lost due to the amount of
time it took for the development approval. He said this was looking positive with not only a
Walgreens, but also a Culver’s Restaurant.
Commissioner Johnson stated a restaurant was the number one thing that the people in the
community wanted when they discussed it two years ago.
Mr. Moses stated the City’s remnant parcel is triangular and hard to fit a square building on the
land. Regarding the value to the City, it is being used for a pond. However, with the current
scenario, the City will get a bigger pond, a pathway, more sidewalk, and a new, tax-paying retail
development. The Walgreens alone will generate between $60,000 and $80,000 per year in new
taxes, plus the restaurant. He noted the residents on the east would be assured that nothing will
be developed in the woods and wetlands, and the development is farther away. He stated this
property and the owners go back 50 years, and for 50 years there have been problems with every
proposal Mr. Videen brought forward. Mr. Moses stated he personally has been working on this
for ten years and believes this proposal is the right thing for everyone. He stated Commissioner
Thomas is off base and it is too late to say no, that all this has all been discussed.
Commissioner Thomas stated it is not too late, this is clearly the time to bring up these concerns
and issues, as it is a public hearing.
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 13
Mr. Moses apologized to Commissioner Thomas and the rest of the Commission, indicating that
of course, she was correct.
Commissioner Thomas accepted the apology. She stated she took the history into great
consideration before she formulated her questions. She stated she may be new to the
Commission but she has asked the questions she needed of staff and of other members to find out
the background and history, and has lived in the City for the last 20 years. She stated she is very
aware of what has gone on with this property and took that into great consideration. These
choices, however, must be made according to the here and now, regardless of Mr. Videen's
health situation or intentions. Commissioner Thomas stated this is still an economical issue and
very little of the past has anything to do with this when talking about some of the land usage
issues.
Commissioner Thomas inquired about Culver’s Restaurant being tentative in the development.
Mr. Moses said they are not far enough along in the lease negotiations to have a formal
agreement, however, Culver’s does want to locate here.
Commissioner Thomas said she is in great favor of the restaurant. She stated she has been very
pleased with the response from the developer, Mr. Moses, and Mr. Videen but this is simply a
matter of choice in terms of what they want located here.
Council Liaison Stigney addressed the Commission, indicating that earlier Walgreens had
offered to purchase the parcel outright, and at that time, the amount of money versus a possible
trade was discussed. He explained the people looking at it felt a trade might be more beneficial
to the City than the outright sale since the land is not really developable as it is and would
require some combination with the adjoining parcels.
Commissioner Kaden noted that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people may find the
pond beautiful, but he finds the wooded areas beautiful. He would like to see the woods and
more open land saved. Unfortunately, there are not many areas the City has a chance to obtain.
If the numbers come off this close in a trade, he felt it would be a good deal for the residents to
get more open space and wooded areas. He said he is not real excited about big buildings
everywhere, however, if it works in the tradeoff he would appreciate the woods being saved and
having the buildings farther away.
Mr. Moses said the developer will use the same brick as the City Hall complex and make the
roof material match the Community Center to make it all fit in well.
Commissioner Thomas inquired if anyone has discussed the security issues regarding how
Walgreens feels about the strong youth environment due to the movie theater and the
Community Center. She noted the possibility of vandalism or shoplifting. Mr. Moses said this
has not been discussed, noting Mounds View is one of the nicer areas they would be located in.
He noted that inner cities have more youth hanging around than Mounds View and he does not
think it is a concern at all. Mr. Moses stated the trash would be enclosed so there will not be an
opportunity for anyone to cause litter.
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 14
Commissioner Thomas noted the police station is basically across the street and hopefully the
store would not be a target. Mr. Moses noted with the store being so close to the highway and
visible it is not a place a teenager would likely hang around.
On the issue of the pathway and driveway, Mr. Moses stated an example of a well-used trail in
Oakdale (the Gateway Trail) that follows Highway 36 and crosses Hadley, just before I-694. He
stated that is a good example of a DNR trail crossing a very busy street.
The same resident of St. Stephen Street suggested they make a nature center out of the extra
parcel of land that is wetlands. She suggested they could utilize Japanese walkways in the wet
area and nature trails. Acting Chairperson Stevenson responded the Mounds View Forester
would evaluate that suggestion.
Planner Ericson suggested a resolution be prepared for the next Planning Commission meeting if
the Commission feels they have enough information to direct staff one way or another. If the
Commission wants or needs additional information, staff can bring forward more information.
He noted the Highway 10 Steering Committee meeting will be held at the City Hall on July 11th.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson questioned if information would be forthcoming from that
meeting that would affect this consideration.
Commissioner Johnson said the Steering Committee will not affect development of land per se, it
has more do to with increasing the safety of the highway as far as pedestrian crossings and trails
along the highway. He stated the meeting would directly relate to the Walgreens issue.
The Planning Commission agreed to direct staff to draft a resolution in favor of the proposed
Planned Unit Development.
Commissioner Kaden commented that the developer has been willing to work with the
Commission, therefore, they should trust they would have the landscaping plan completed by
July 19th.
______________________________________________________________________________
7. Special Planning Case SP-079-00
Discussion Regarding the First Draft of Ordinance 664, an Ordinance Amending Chapter 1106
of the Mounds View Zoning Code Pertaining to Permitted and Conditionally Permitted
Accessory Buildings.
______________________________________________________________________________
Planner Ericson gave the staff report as follows:
Ordinance 664, which would affect changes in accessory structures in the City has been
distributed to the Planning Commission with the changes that are exactly as they were discussed
and agreed upon in principle at the last Commission meeting.
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 15
Planner Ericson advised there are other minor changes contemplated by this ordinance, most of
which are housekeeping and reorganizing language in a more logical fashion. Some sections of
the code were put under a different subdivision, where it discusses single-family dwellings, and
they have cleaned up some previous errors. He noted the changes are evident in the
Commission's copy of the ordinance, deletions are struck out and additions are underlined.
Commissioner Kaden inquired if 952 square feet is currently the maximum size of a garage
without a CUP. Planner Ericson responded affirmatively, subject to the footprint of the house
and the 20 percent rear yard coverage ratio.
Commissioner Kaden questioned if this code change would strike the “footprint” requirement.
Planner Ericson stated that is correct.
Acting Chairperson Stevenson inquired if the Commission had any more input on changes made
from the last meeting.
Commissioner Miller asked for clarification on the first page, item C, beginning at the fourth
line. Planner Ericson explained that the language was taken from a different part of the code
under 1106.02 subdivision 1C. He explained that it was added in 1998 so as to allow a property
owner building a house a little bit of flexibility. If the Code did not include this language, it
would almost imply that before a house could be built, the driveway would already have to be
there. This language indicates that there are ways to build a house and not be required to put the
driveway in at the same time, as cement trucks and other heavy vehicles would be coming in and
out. He said this could be amended to state more clearly what they would like it to say. He
suggested the Commission could think about revising this section and if they find language that
makes more sense, it can be revised up until the second reading.
Planner Ericson also advised that there are a couple other changes in between substantive and
housekeeping to the ordinance. He read from Page 3, item I, stating the change would make it
clear that the accessory building shall have weather resistant treated or finished exterior. He
explained the existing code was silent on material and they have had problems with some very
shoddy looking sheds and structures.
Commissioner Miller asked about the lettering on Page 2, which was not corrected when items b
and c were deleted. Planner Ericson noted the lettering would be corrected and advised of the
addition of item j, which will be corrected to be item h.
Commissioner Kaden questioned what is meant by “frequently used vehicle.” He expressed
concern that if there are any complaints, the meaning of this could change depending on the
inspector at the time. Planner Ericson explained that when this was looked at, they attempted to
come up with language that shows the intent but leaves room for some interpretation. He noted
they do not want to require every accessory building to have an improved driveway.
Commissioner Miller inquired if the building is considered a garage if a car is put in it. Acting
Chairperson Stevenson said it is for a vehicle that is going to be frequently used. He explained
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 16
when they originally discussed this they did not want someone storing an antique vehicle, an
ATV, or something not often used to have to have to have a driveway.
Commissioner Johnson said he thinks they agreed that if they end up plowing the driveway and
making ruts they would probably do something to improve it.
Planner Ericson said he thinks the property owner is going to dictate what will happen. He stated
the City has to leave some common sense option and allow the resident to do what makes sense
and appropriate. Planner Ericson stated staff was not quite sure how else to address this other
than by stating specific requirements for a certain size. If after a year they have ruts, he think
that would constitute “frequent use.”
Commissioner Johnson said if they are going to plow the driveway they will probably park in
front of it, which is not allowed without an improved surface. That is where enforcement by the
City Inspector comes in for people that do not understand it is an eyesore and needs to be taken
care of.
Commissioner Miller requested clarification on page 4, item c, beginning at “Any sign existing
prior to December 29, 1972, shall not be enlarged …” Planner Ericson responded he could strike
that beginning language as they would not know when the sign was originally put up.
Commissioner Miller inquired if a sign were only six square inches, could it not be enlarged to
one square foot. Planner Ericson explained yes, but he does not think that section is appropriate
anymore, as this was drafted in 1983.
Commissioner Miller suggested when they amend the sign ordinance they may want to consider
if one square foot is appropriate.
Upon inquiry, Planner Ericson stated they need item c to be included, as it addresses home
occupations, and they need to have the allowances for signage for home occupations. They
could strike language from “any sign existing” and say a home occupation can simply have one
square foot of signage.
Commissioner Miller inquired if playhouses are considered an accessory building. Planner
Ericson responded they are listed as an accessory use but not an accessory building.
Council Member Stigney asked regarding the home occupation signage if it is supposed to be
located on either the principal structure or the garage. He noted many times daycare center signs
are out on the street or mailbox. Planner Ericson said that is how the code reads. The home
occupation ordinance was put in place in 1983 and has been in place for 17 years.
Commissioner Hegland clarified they are requiring a Conditional Use Permit to create an
accessory building more than 952 square feet, however, there is not a Conditional Use Permit to
go up to 1,400 square feet, if you have a 952 square foot garage you can put another building up.
Planner Ericson stated the accessory buildings are allowed to a maximum combined square
footage of 1,400 square feet. He said staff would draft a resolution for the Commission's action
Mounds View Planning Commission July 5, 2000
Regular Meeting Page 17
at the next Commission meeting on July 19th. He inquired if the Commission feels they should
strike out language from the home occupancy section. The Planning Commission consensus was
to direct staff to leave that section in, stating they can change it when they change the sign code.
______________________________________________________________________________
8. Staff Reports / Items of Information
A. Previous Council Actions
Community Development Director Jopke stated the City Council meeting on June 26th had a
light agenda, with nothing of much impact related to planning issues. There were some issues
with some business licenses and a renewal of an insurance policy.
B. Mermaid Expansion Update
Community Development Jopke stated the project is moving ahead, they have received an
application from the Mermaid for a concept, and will forward it to the Planning Commission at
the next Commission meeting.
9. Chairperson and Planning Commissioners Reports
Commissioner Johnson stated a Highway 10 Steering Committee meeting is scheduled on July
11th at 7:00 p.m. It is open to the public and they will be taking comments about the Highway 10
corridor.
No further reports were considered.
10. Adjournment
There being no further business before the Planning Commission, Acting Chairperson Stevenson
adjourned the meeting at 9:22 p.m.
(The meeting immediately adjourned to the Agenda Session)
Respectfully submitted,
Rick Jopke
Community Development Director
Transcribed by:
Carol Hamer
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\july 5, 2000 minutwes.DOC