HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 1999/03/22•
PROCEEDINGS OF THE MOUNDS VIEW CITY COUNCIL
CITY OF MOUNDS VIEW
RAMSEY COUNTY, MINNESOTA
~~1, Regular Meeting
~- March 22,1999
~_ y " `~" "' ~"' V Mounds View City Hall
2401 Highway 10, Mounds View, MN 55112
7:00 P.M.
1. MEETING IS CALLED TO ORDER
2. ROLL CALL: Coughlin, Marty, Stigney and Thomason.
NOT PRESENT: Quick.
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Monday, March 8,1999, City Council Meeting Minutes
•
MOTION/SECOND: Coughlin/Thomason. To Accept the March 8, 1999, City Council Meeting
Minutes as amended.
Ayes - 4 Nays - 0 Motion carried.
4. SPECIAL ORDER OF BUSINESS
A. Resolution of Appreciation for Duane McCarty from the I-35W Corridor
Coalition.
•
Mayor Coughlin stated the Council had the distinct honor of presenting former Mayor, Duane
McCarty with an award from the I-35W Corridor Coalition. He read the inscription as follows:
"WHEREAS Duane McCarty has served the City of Mounds View as Mayor from 1979 to 1984,
and from 1997 to 1998,
WHEREAS, Duane McCarty has served as Ramsey County Commissioner from 1986 to 1992,
WHEREAS, Mayor McCarty's most recent term as Mayor was marked by the development,
construction, and completion of the Mounds View Community Center, by his providing
leadership in the reduction and growth of City government, and by his active participation as a
community spokesperson, challenging expansion issues at the Anoka County Airport.
WHEREAS, Mayor Duane McCarty has provided leadership in helping to establish the North
Metro I-35W Corridor Coalition,
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Regular Meeting Page 2
NOW, THEREFORE, the Board of Directors hereby recognizes Mayor McCarty for his
commitment to the mission of the Coalition and its unique multi-community collaborative work
plan.
FURTHER, the Board appreciates Mayor McCarty's dedication and active participation in
helping shape the Coalition's vision for the future.
The Board of Directors hereby declares Mayor Duane McCarty and honorary member of the
Coalition, and encourages Mayor McCarty to remain engaged with the work of the Coalition.
Adopted by the North Metro I-35W Corridor Coalition, this day, January 12, 1999.
Dennis Probst, President of the I-35W Corridor Coalition, and Mayor of Mounds View."
Mayor Coughlin requested former Mayor McCarty come forward for presentation of this award.
Former Mayor, Duane McCarty stated he appreciated this award very much. He explained
that the I-35W Corridor Coalition is comprised of the membership of the cities of Mounds View,
Arden Hills, Shoreview, Roseville, and Blaine. He indicated that they have commenced the
development of a Geological Information System, that would put at their fingertips, the
information needed to move forward with good, sound, decision making process, in the areas of
Economic Development, redevelopment, and the like. He added that Mayor Coughlin would be
carrying the torch in this regard.
Mr. McCarty stated the Geological Information System is a very powerful and significant tool.
He explained that if a business were to come to Mounds View, in search of a location in which to
develop their business, and there was no appropriate site available, the City could immediately
provide information regarding other locations in its sister cities. He advised that this would
allow these cities to hold that economic development in the North Metro area.
Mr. McCarty reiterated that he appreciated this award very much, and would attempt to live up to
the kind words contained therein. He indicated that Former Mayor, Dennis Probst, who had
written this inscription, was a very talented and dependable leader, whom he had enjoyed
working with.
Mr. McCarty stated after the election, he had indicated to Mayor Coughlin, and Council
Members Marty and Thomason that he was pleased with the results of the election, as he
believed most people were. He pointed out that even if they were not voted for, they now
represent all of them. He stated he had further indicated at the time, that he would be their chief
cheerleader, and he had found no reason to back away from this commitment. He advised that
he has been watching, and they were doing an excellent job.
Mr. McCarty stated the Council has done everything they had stated they were going to do, and
he had no doubt that they would accomplish the things that were to come. He indicated that this
would likely be one of the best Council's they have had in Mounds View, including those he
served on. He noted this Council has all of the advantages that they had in his first term. He
explained that the first Council he served on had three new Council Members within two years,
including himself, Charlotte Forslin, and Bill Dody. He indicated they could also depend upon
Don Hodges, who brought his experience to this Council. He commented they had the
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Regular Meeting Page 3
enthusiasm, commitment, experience, and all of the ingredients that the current Council has, and
appears to be taking advantage of.
Mr. McCarty stated quite some time ago, when he was first promoted to a manager for
Applebaum Foods, he had read something which he has attempted to carry with him always, and
believed it was appropriate to Mounds View at this time. He indicated that "If you work for a
man, for heaven's sake, work for him. Be loyal, and support the institution that he represents. If
you must condemn, complain, and eternally find fault, resign your position, remembering that an
ounce of loyalty is worth more than a pound of cleverness, for if you don't, the first high wind
that comes along will blow you away, and you will probably never know why."
Mr. McCarty expressed his appreciation to the Council.
Mayor Coughlin thanked Former Mayor McCarty for his kind words.
B. Review of City Council/Staff Retreat
Mayor Coughlin stated the Council and staff spent two days at Retreat, on March 12 and 13. He
indicated he had struggled with pneumonia, and Council Member Thomason, with Bronchitis,
however, they all attended, nonetheless. He indicated this was a good time. He pointed out that
they were uncertain what to expect, as so many of these goal setting seminars seem to come to
no real benefit, however, his hopes were that much would be gained, and his hopes were met.
Mayor Coughlin indicated there were some tense times at the Retreat, and some moments of
great catharsis on all sides. He stated frustrations were expressed, anger was vented, and
confusion was brought forward, however, in the end, and by the mere fact that they committed to
communicate with one another, that they resolved many of the issues that were before them.
Mayor Coughlin stated that he would be naive to believe that atwo-day seminar would change
the world, however, this was a good start. He advised that they have committed themselves to
continue on in this process.
Mayor Coughlin indicated that one of the products of the Retreat was a list of ten rules of
Council/Staff interaction. He read the ten rules, and offered his personal insight into their
specific significance as follows:
Respect one another, and do not abuse each other.
2. Follow the Golden Rule.
Appreciate the value of each team member.
4. Communicate the "whys."
Mayor Coughlin explained that this rule pertains to why someone may have a particular
perspective, why there is a certain option, or why they, in their specific capacities, do
what they do.
5. Accept our limitations and learn from our failures.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
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Mayor Coughlin stated they were all human and subject to error. He indicated that all
would do things that others perceive to be incorrect, however, they may not be aware of
this themselves. He stated this rule signifies that they should recognize this, deal with it,
and learn from it.
6. Have realistic expectations of everyone, and have patience.
Mayor Coughlin explained that there have been situations of expecting the impossible or
near impossible from mere mortals. He pointed out that it is very difficult to live with the
mantle of those high expectations, and this rule indicates that they should be realistic in
their expectations.
Follow the chain of command.
Mayor Coughlin indicated this rule pertains to the recognition that in order for a good
management structure to succeed, there must be a flow of information, so that each
individual may perform their specific duties, most efficiently.
•
8. Identify and prioritize issues, and clearly state directions and goals.
Mayor Coughlin explained that they should not express themselves through vague
concepts, but rather, get to the heart of the matter, and move on.
9. Tell the painful truth.
Mayor Coughlin indicated that this rule is essentially, "tough love," in that there is no
merit in dancing around an issue, or attempting to wallpaper over ideas that need to be
discussed, because this behavior only serves to breed resentment. He advised that it is
preferable to bring issues out in the open, deal with them, and move on.
10. Keep your sense of humor, and find some enjoyment in this job.
Mayor Coughlin pointed out that regardless of what the letters to the editor may indicate,
what their superiors may say, or what the Council may say, they are all humans, and need
to keep their perspective. He noted that humor has been documented to be one of the best
medicines available to mankind.
Mayor Coughlin indicated they had referred to these rules as the "Ten Commandments," and
would all sign the document, commit to these ideals, and hold each other accountable to them.
He explained that if they work together as a team, they could accomplish much more than that
they could do as individual cogs in the machine.
Mayor Coughlin indicated the Staff/Council Retreat was difficult and painful at times, however,
it was valuable, and was time and money well spent.
Council Member Marty stated he had been apprehensive and anxious with regard to the Retreat,
however, he had hoped for the best. He indicated there were some tense times, and some
uncomfortable moments, however, by the end of the seminar, he felt that things had gone fairly
Mounds View City Council March 22,1999
Regular Meeting Page 5
well. He explained that this had culminated with the admission of some of his errors and faults
in front of other people, which was never a very comfortable situation, however, he hoped they
could maintain these goals, and work in the same direction, as a team.
Council Member Marty advised that they would not always agree with their fellow Council or
staff members, because there were some very strong individuals involved. He pointed out that
the City was not being led by a "bunch of sheep," contrary to some opinions.
Council Member Marty indicated that at the Retreat, there was discussion pertaining to how to
regain the publics' trust, and put their best foot forward. He stated they realize that this was not
an overnight process, and it would take time for the public to become familiar with the Council
Members and staff. He explained that he did not know many of those who attended the Retreat
very well, however, after spending two days together, baring their souls, he had come to know
them as people. He indicated this was always helpful, as opposed to simply passing each other
on the way in and out of City Hall, or meeting for official business. He stated he hoped that they
could all start working together to develop a vision for the City, and begin to earn the trust of the
citizens, staff, and fellow Council Members.
Council Member Thomason stated she also had doubts going into the Retreat, however, by the
second day, was quite reassured. She indicated she was very impressed with the staff and the
other Council Members, in learning about their values, and in that there was complete
transparency with regard to any differences they had, which simply appeared to be more of a
perception, than actual differences. She stated she found many similarities between Council and
staff, and in fact, had a very enjoyable time. She expressed her appreciation to all, for
participating m the Retreat, and being open.
Council Member Stigney stated he also had reservations regarding the Retreat, as he has attended
other such events in the past. He indicated that this particular Retreat was very productive in
terms of bringing forward the problems of interaction between the Council and the staff, which
has been an ongoing issue since he has been a Council Member. He stated everyone was
straightforward in terms of bringing forward their actual concerns, and how they would like to
have them resolved, and many issues were brought out into the open. He noted he did not
believe everything was resolved, however, now that these concerns have been identified, it was a
step in this direction. He advised that they should hold some follow-up sessions to address these
matters on a more specific basis, and determine how they can really be resolved. He stated he
was pleased with the overall outcome of the Council/Staff Retreat.
City Administrator Whiting stated the Council's comments echoed staff" s feelings of skepticism
going into the meeting. He indicated staff has attended several of these seminars, and were
aware of patterns of behavior that seem to play out in the roles that Council and staff hold with
the City. He pointed out that the ability to discuss these matters openly and honestly was
necessary, however, the teamwork required for this type of business was necessary, because the
success goes both ways. He explained that the success does not only go between the Council and
staff, but also between City Hall and the community.
City Administrator Whiting stated in reflecting upon his three years with the City of Mounds
View, he realized that that he has worked for three different Mayors, and nine different Council
Members. He advised that rt was somewhat difficult, throughout these changes, to gam an
understanding of what is being required of you by the City. He explained that for some of the
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Regular Meeting Page 6
staff members, who have felt frustration in this regard, simply knowing where they were going,
and coming to a positive understanding with the Council, in terms of the pressures and demand
they are facing, is helpful. He noted that during the week, staff felt more upbeat, and made some
changes with regard to the scheduling of staff meetings, and attempting to distribute Council
packets out on Thursdays, instead of Fridays. He stated they would see how these things
proceed, adding that it was hoped the community would begin to feel the benefits of this, as well.
City Administrator Whiting stated Facilitator Carl Neu spent two days working on the teamwork
aspect of the Council/Staff Retreat, and has agreed to return for an additional day of goal setting
in the future. He explained that the only expense involved would be in terms of bringing Mr.
Neu to the City, and providing for his lodging during that time. He indicated that Mr. Neu would
be in the city of West St. Paul in April, and would be available for the City on Tuesday, April 20,
if the Council was so inclined. He requested the Council Members review their schedules, and
advise him, after which time, staff would either confirm or reschedule this date.
Mayor Coughlin inquired if the city of St. Paul would be paying Mr. Neu's airfare, and the City
of Mounds View would therefore, possibly only be required to pay for a hotel for one night,
which would be a negligible amount of money.
City Administrator Whiting stated he believed this was be correct, adding that staff would obtain
the details in this regard. He indicated Mr. Neu would be coming back to West St. Paul for the
same reasons he would be coming back to Mounds View, therefore, they would be responsible
for their portion of the expense.
Mayor Coughlin requested the Council Members review their calendars, and contact City
Administrator Whiting as soon as possible.
5. REPORTS
Council Member Marty had no report.
Mayor Coughlin reported that although he was suffering from pneumonia, and against his
doctor's orders, he had gone to the State Capital to testify on behalf of Representative Barbara
Haake's Airport Legislation, which was before the Transportation Committee. He indicated that
it was uncertain whether or not this legislation would be passed, and the matter was actually
continued from a Thursday, to a Friday meeting, therefore, he, City Administrator Whiting, and
several others returned at 7:00 the following morning. He explained that the legislation did clear
this committee, with some negotiations behind the scenes, and would now be going before the
House of Representatives for consideration. He indicated that Senator Novak was currently
ushering similar legislation through the Senate, and anyone so inclined could certainly send a
note of encouragement to Senator Novak, on behalf of this legislation.
Mayor Coughlin stated Representative Haake had scheduled a Town Meeting, which was to be
held in Council Chambers, the previous week, however, the House of Representatives had
consumed all of her time, and she was unable to come to Mounds View, therefore, the schedule
had been rearranged. He announced that the Town Meeting would be held in Council Chambers
the following Wednesday, at 7:00 p.m., and anyone wishing to speak with Representative Haake
regarding the airport issue, or any other issue, was welcome to attend. He indicated that
Representative Haake would be available to the public, and encouraged citizens to attend.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 7
Council Member Thomason reported she attended the Ramsey County League of Local
Government meeting the previous month, where there was a presentation pertaining to a new
program for children that they are attempting to implement in Ramsey County.
Council Member Stigney stated he was unable to attend the last Planning Commission meeting,
however, had received a copy of the meeting minutes, and had spoken with one of the Planning
Commissioners regarding the discussion at that meeting. He indicated that one of the items
before the Commission was a request for a conditional use permit for Linder's Greenhouse, at
Moundsview Square, which comes forward on an annual basis. He advised that this request was
unanimously approved, and would be coming before the Council later in the evening.
Council Member Stigney stated the Planning Commission would be holding three public
hearings regarding variances. He indicated one was in regard to a request for a reduced sideyard
set back at 5302 Raymond Avenue, and another pertained to a request for variance to allow for a
pylon sign at the Kindercare facility at 2791 Highway 10. He stated there would also be a public
hearing for a variance request to allow for a detached garage in the front yard of property located
at 7805 Gloria Circle. He indicated all of these public hearings have been scheduled for April 7,
beginning at 7:00 p.m., and anyone seeking further information in regard to these items was
invited to attend the meeting.
Council Member Stigney stated the Planning Commission was working very diligently on the
Comprehensive Plan. He indicated they reviewed all of the revisions to the Transportation
• component, which they have worked on in the past, and brought this up to date. He noted the
Commission also made additional corrections and changes to the document.
City Administrator Whiting stated most of the work the prior week centered primarily around the
airport legislation, however, he was given the opportunity to publicly thank the outgoing
Communications Coordinator, Tracy Sanchez, whose last day was Friday. He indicated Ms.
Sanchez is now working for the County Attorney's Office, and staff was attempting to make up
for the slack created by her departure.
City Administrator Whiting stated staff has placed an advertisement for a replacement for this
position. He stated the Council has not had the opportunity to spend much time discussing this
matter, in terms of what this position should or should not be. He stated the current job
description is the position Ms. Sanchez held when she began her employment with the City. He
explained that if the Council so desires, staff would attempt to interview the applicants in relation
to what appears to be needed, that may differ from that job description, and in terms of what the
applicants could offer, and report back to the Council at a later date.
City Administrator Whiting reiterated his thanks to Ms. Sanchez. He indicated she had done a
good job, in just over two years with the City. He stated Ms. Sanchez had recently spent much
time on the telephone system, which would be changed in a matter of weeks. He indicated they
were currently encountering some difficulties with regard to the telephone lines at City Hall. He
suggested that in the interim, those attempting to contact persons at City Hall utilize their direct
lines, which are available in the Mounds View Matters. He noted that this might continue to be
problematic for the next two weeks, however, it was not for lack of trying.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 8
City Attorney Riggs stated City Attorney Long, who was currently on vacation, had requested he
forward a comment regarding the legislative effort. He indicated that citizen involvement was
very crucial, and would be necessary within the next month, to insure this becomes a successful
effort.
No further reports were considered.
6. CONSENT AGENDA
A. Approve Just and Correct Claims
B. Resolution 5322 Regarding Acceptable Times of Flights for City Business
C. Contractor Licenses for Approval
D. Resolution 5327 Approval for Purchase of Truck for Golf Course
Mayor Coughlin asked the Council if anyone would like to remove Items for discussion.
Council Member Stigney requested Item D be removed from the Consent. Agenda for additional
discussion.
MOTION/SECOND: Marty/Thomason. To Approve the Consent Agenda for Items A, B, and C,
as presented.
Ayes - 4 Nays - 0 Motion carried.
Council Member Stigney stated at the last Work Session the Council had discussed the purchase
of a truck for the golf course, however, Council Member Marty was called away on an
emergency, and therefore, was unable to participate in the discussion. He indicated that since
that time, he has asked several questions of City Administrator Whiting regarding this matter,
and has not yet received answers to those inquiries. He indicated further examination of this
matter was necessary, not only in terms of what the truck represents, but also in terms of the
actual cost of the truck, and the financial standing of the golf course.
Council Member Stigney requested the action be postponed until after the Council discusses the
matter in further detail, perhaps at the next Council Work Session.
Council Member Marty extended his apologies for being required to leave the Work Session
discussion, adding that this was due to a medical emergency pertaining to his new son.
Mayor Coughlin stated this was certainly understandable, adding that some things are more
important than the Council Chambers, and family was one of them.
MOTION/SECOND: Stigney/Marty. To Postpone Action On this Item Until the Council Has
the Opportunity to Discuss the Matter in Further Detail, at an Upcoming Council Work Session.
Ayes- 4 Nays - 0 Motion carried.
• Mayor Coughlin advised that a postponement motion is open to debate, relative to the
postponement. He indicated that Golf Course Director, John Hammerschmidt was present, and
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 9
inquired if he would care to speak to this issue, keeping the discussion germane to the
postponement.
Mr. Hammerschmidt stated one year ago, as they were considering the problems they were
encountering with the soil at the golf course, they decided upon certain remedies that would take
a ten- year period of time to complete. He indicated at that time, they purchased equipment to
facilitate these remedies for the soil, however, one of the pieces of equipment they did not
purchase was a pickup truck, which had been authorized by the Council at that time. He
explained that they could not determine whether they should purchase a 3/4 or j/2 ton truck, as this
was not a priority at that time, because they were in the midst of making these corrections with
their own personal vehicles, and borrowing equipment whenever possible. He advised that they
were now aware they require a 3/4 ton pickup, and it is a priority, in order to make these
corrections. He stated they plan to commence this work as soon as the weather permits, and
without the truck, they would not be able to proceed.
Mr. Hammerschmidt stated the Staff Report. indicates the options available, which include
continuing to utilize their personal vehicles, or to spread out the time in which they perform
these corrections, so that they do not impact the golfers. He pointed out that the pickup would be
used for other purposes, and would also be a replacement truck for the small Ranger pickup that
was purchased used in 1994, and has 88,000 miles on it.
Mr. Hammerschmidt indicated another option would be to purchase a good used pickup. He
pointed out however, that the City typically receives a price break from dealers when purchasing
new vehicles, and the City decided it was worthwhile to do this. He explained that they would
keep the vehicle for a long penod of time, and replace it in ten years, when the cycle has expired.
He stated this would be considered be a normal purchase. He indicated he had moved this matter
from anon-budget extraordinary budget item, to the budget, because he believed it was a
priority, as opposed to some of the other purchases being considered. He explained that they
were currently researching the purchase of mowing equipment, however, the equipment they
currently utilize is still adequate for mowing. He advised that the repair of the soil was the
priority, at this point in time.
Mr. Hammerschmidt stated he believed he was clear to make this purchase three years prior,
when a $25,000 Interfund Loan was going to be made to the Contingency Fund to cover these
types of purchases. He stated he had informed the Council they did not desire to proceed with
this purchase at that time, and had indicated that when they required something, they would
come before the Council to request it. He stated that in his understanding, a necessary item that
falls under the $25,000, and does not require to be bid out, was simply within the process of
normal purchasing, and the City Administrator could either approve it or not approve it, based
upon his knowledge of the situation.
City Administrator Whiting stated staff had discussed this matter, in terms of whether or not it
was required to come before the City Council. He explained that in recognition of the questions
that had come forward with the previous Council, regarding the size of the truck, and being
aware of Council Member Stigney's interest in the matter, staff decided to include the item on
• the Consent Agenda, with expectations that there would be some questions pertaining to it.
City Administrator Whiting stated Mr. Hammerschmidt, through the Staff Report, and through
his presence at the meeting has attempted to answer some of these questions. He suggested that
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
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if the Council was not comfortable with the amount of discussion at the last Work Session,
perhaps other questions pertaining to the overall picture of the finances at the golf course could
be addressed at an upcoming Work Session.
City Administrator Whiting pointed out that two additional questions had come forward
regarding how this consideration relates to other City trucks, particularly those in the Public
Works Department, and whether or not there is a truck which could be utilized for this purpose.
He indicated there was also the matter of the personal use of vehicles, which has come forward
on occasion, and possibly warrants discussion as well. He stated he had not seen anything of
concern in this regard. He noted that through speaking with Mr. Hammerschmidt, and based
upon the location of his residence, it would appear to be cost effective to take a truck home, in
order to pick up a load on the way to the golf course, or to have the vehicle maintained.
Mayor Coughlin advised that the discussion should be germane to the postponement.
Mayor Coughlin stated in light of the Staff Report, and the fact that they were beginning to see
50-degree temperatures, it was simply a matter of time before the frost would be off the ground,
and the golf course could be opened. He advised that the sooner this occurs, the better, adding
that the better the quality of the golf course, the more it would be utilized, and people would be
willing to pay their hard-earned cash to do so. He stated the Staff Report had provided answers
to the majority of questions he had in this regard, and for this reason, he would oppose the
postponement.
• Council Member Stigney inquired how postponing the decision until after the April 5 Work
Session would be detrimental to anything they were proposing to do at the golf course, and why
this could not be resolved in conjunction with utilizing a vehicle from the Public Works
Department.
Mr. Hammerschmidt indicated he was not clear regarding the Public Works Department
schedule, in terms of available vehicles. He advised that the previous Council had discussed
how the golf course could do a quid quo pro with other departments, when the golf course is an
enterprise unit. He explained that in the past, as the Golf Course Director, he has performed
certain tasks such as spraying the parks, and has used Parks and Recreation Department
equipment at the golf course, which was the nature of this agreement. He pointed out that
previous Council's have directed the golf course to be certain they remain separate, and not
utilize City-owned or other City facilities to make the golf course successful.
Mr. Hammerschmidt stated the Public Works Department has no tracking method by which to
charge for equipment, and even if there was a Public Works truck available for the year, there
was an issue regarding how the charges would be calculated, and who would set the price. He
indicated he had discussed this matter with Director of Public Works Ulrich, who advised that
during the same period of time they become busy, the workers for both the parks the streets are
utilizing the vehicles, therefore, it was his understanding that no vehicle would be available.
Mr. Hammerschmidt stated he could not schedule the use of a truck, because he did not know in
advance when they could proceed with the project. He explained that much this would relate to
the timing between the busy morning crowd, and busy leagues. He indicated that oftentimes
there is an hour and a half window, between noon and 1:30 p.m. during which the work can be
done, however, that maybe all they are able to accomplish on that particular day. He stated that
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 11
two days later, there might be another two-hour period to perform the work. He explained that
they attempt to do this work with as little impact to the golfers as possible. He reiterated that the
truck was not only critical for one area of the operation, but rather, was probably most critical in
the normal course of operations, as well as being a replacement vehicle for the truck they
currently utilize.
Council Member Stigney reiterated he would like to postpone the decision until after further
discussion is held at the Work Session. He explained that there were several questions that have
come forward, and he believed reacting to this matter at this time would not be appropriate. He
indicated the Council should examine the matter further at the April 5 Work Session, adding that
he did not believe this would be detrimental.
Council Member Marty inquired how much time it would take to acquire a vehicle, if the
purchase was authorized at the beginning of April.
City Administrator Whiting stated the vehicle is proposed to purchased off of State bid.
Mr. Hammerschmidt indicated that the State bid was closed for the year. He explained that if
they were able to obtain a vehicle in this manner, it would not be available for 120 days, or
longer. He advised that the golf course is able to secure fleet vehicle prices from the
dealerships, and these are frequently less than State bid prices. He pointed out that because the
purchase would be less than $25,000, they would be able to obtain three good bids, and accept
the lowest of these. He noted that this allows them to consider special circumstances when
purchasing vehicles, such as vehicles that are a year old, or demos. He explained that one dealer
informed him they had a truck with 700 miles on it, which was being returned to their dealership
by the original owner, and these types of vehicles were also available for consideration. He
indicated the State bid amounts were running approximately $22,000, and they were requesting
authorization to purchase a vehicle for less than that amount.
Council Member Marty inquired if the Council were to authorize this purchase at the very
beginning of April, could the golf course obtain a vehicle and have it working in a relatively
short amount of time.
Mr. Hammerschmidt stated they could. He explained that this was simply a matter of gathering
the bids, and going through the normal bid process.
Council Member Marty inquired if such matters had not come before the Council in the past.
City Administrator Whiting explained that this type of purchase was not required to go through
the Council, in that it is included in budget and procedurally, this is simply a matter of making
the purchase. He indicated staff has the authority to approve such a purchase however, they
realized that there may be some questions, and did not wish to proceed in the event there were
some greater concerns.
Council Member Marty inquired if the Council's questions were answered at the next Work
. Session, could the truck be purchased the following day.
Mr. Hammerschmidt stated this was correct.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 12
Mayor Coughlin advised the item would require official Council action at the regular Council
Meeting, which would be held on April 12. He inquired if this would allow sufficient time for
this work to commence, without causing any harm.
Mr. Hammerschmidt stated it would. He explained that one of the reasons he did not proceed
with this matter on December 30, prior to the Council Members taking office, was because he
was aware the Council held golf course sessions, and the Council Members desired input into
these matters.
Mayor Coughlin stated he would agree to the postponement, in light of the fact that it was
acceptable to Mr. Hammerschmidt.
Ayes - 4 Nays - 0 Motion carried.
Mayor Coughlin requested, in consideration of the citizens present for the Public Hearings, the
Council consider Unfinished Business after Council Business.
7. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
A. Long Distance Phone Bills
This item was considered following Council Business.
8. RESIDENTS REQUESTS AND COMMENTS FROM THE FLOOR
Tony Zuk, 5671 Quincy Street, stated he would like to personally thank the Council for the
repairs that were made to Quincy Street. He indicated it had been approximately five years since
that street was repaired, and he had called City Hall on Monday in this regard. He stated the
children like to play in the snowbanks in this area, and vehicles drive by at 50 miles per hour,
and splash the children. He stated he did not appreciate having to deal with the muddy clothing,
in addition to his son's cold, which this did not make any better. He extended his appreciation to
Mayor Coughlin for having the Public Works Department perform this repair.
Mayor Coughlin interjected that the credit should go to Mike Ulrich, the Director of the Public
Works Department, and he had simply forwarded Mr. Zuk's comment on to him. He advised
that Director of Public Works Ulrich had dealt with this matter, and therefore, should receive the
accolades.
Mr. Zuk extended his appreciation to Director of Public Works Ulrich.
Mr. Zuk indicated he has been finding empty beer cans and liquor bottles in the area surrounding
the trails behind Oakwood Park, and was aware that alcohol was not permitted in City parks. He
noted there were also matches and cigarette packages in the area. He stated his son was six years
old, and he was afraid to allow him go back into this area without supervision. He indicated
there was objectionable graffiti on the playgrounds, and the spray painting was out of control.
He suggested the Police Department perform a walking beat in this area.
Mayor Coughlin stated he would forward this information to the Chief of Police.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 13
Mr. Zuk stated along the trail walk behind Oakwood Park, and up to Greenfield Park, there was a
bridge across the creek, and the cables that support the bridge have fallen down, which presents a
potential safety hazard. He explained that there was also graffiti, and empty liquor cans and
bottles m this area. He advised that the badge should to be repaired, and this area should be
policed as well. He requested .Mayor Coughlin suggest to the Chief of Police that the Police
Officers walk through this area, instead of radaring the traffic on Long Lake Road or County
Road I.
Mayor Coughlin stated there was an ongoing debate, in terms of whose backyard to police. He
advised that the Police Department does its utmost to attempt to balance this out, adding that this
was quite a task, and he certainly would not attempt to coordinate it. He stated his hat was off to
the Police Department for doing a wonderful job.
Mr. Zuk suggested the residents organize a citizen's patrol to act as the "Eyes of the Police." He
indicated the cities of St. Paul and Minneapolis do this with their reserve officers.
Mayor Coughlin suggested Mr. Zuk speak with the Chief of Police personally, and share his
concerns and suggestions. He explained that he would pass this information on, however, to
further address his concerns, Mr. Zuk could contact the Chief of Police directly.
Council Member Marty added that if the residents have a question or concern regarding the roads
or the streets, rather than calling the Council Members or the Mayor, they contact the
Department of Public Works. He indicated this was one of the items discussed during the
Retreat, and it was noted that rather than attempting to go through a variety of channels to
address their comments and concerns, residents should contact the appropriate department
directly.
Mr. Zuk reiterated his appreciation to Mayor Coughlin and the Public Works Department for the
repairs that were made to Quincy Street.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated a sanitary sewer repair had been made in this area of
Quincy Street several years prior, and a sleeve was installed, in order to avoid having to excavate
the entire site, and installing a new piece of concrete pipe. He explained that this sleeve began to
fail late this winter, and when he received the comment from Mr. Zuk, he had gone to the site to
examine it that evening. He indicated the following day he requested one of the Wastewater
employees to check on this repair, and this particular employee, who also operates the snowplow
in this area, indicated he had noticed that a sinkhole was developing.
Director of Public Works Ulrich advised that unless the residents' concerns and comments are
brought to the attention of the Department of Public Works, they have no means to be aware of
some of these things. He indicated they could not be on every street at all times, therefore,
potholes and sinkholes develop. He explained that of particular importance are the sinkholes and
dips in the middle of the road, because these indicate that there is something wrong with the
infrastructure below the surface
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated in this case, they had gone to the site to televise the sewer
system the following day, and found there were some cracks, and places where the pipe had
actually been misplaced. He indicated the contractor who had performed the original repair,
came out to the site, and repaired it again. He noted this contractor was at the site for quite some
Mounds View City Council March 22,1999
Regular Meeting Page 14
time of Friday night, at no charge to the City. He advised that this repair has been completed, the
blacktop would be removed and class five would be brought on to the site for use until a
permanent surface could be laid.
David Jahnke, 8428 Eastwood Road stated he had a problem with regard to the golf course, as
he had previously had with regard to the Bel Ray. He explained that he was not certain,
however, no one has proven to him that the golf course has made any money, and now they were
proposing to purchase a new truck. He stated there were concerns regarding the cost of items the
City owns. He requested the Council carefully examine these costs, as it was the peoples' money
they were spending.
Mr. Jahnke stated he was shocked at the attitude that had come forward with regard to the long
distance telephone calls. He stated he has never heard of any large company making personal
telephone calls from their place of business, on company time, and having no accountability for
this. He stated a resident had contacted him that date, and requested he forward her comment
regarding her disbelief at Mayor Coughlin's statement that it would cost more to investigate this.
He pointed out that they should simply stop this.
Mr. Jahnke requested the City employees be accountable for the people they work for. He stated
he was shocked to hear about the telephone calls, adding that although they might be minor, if
these minor things continue to occur, major things would occur as well.
Mayor Coughlin thanked Mr. Jahnke for his comments, adding that the long distance telephone
calls would be discussed later in the meeting.
Jim Schmidt, 5446 Ericson Road, stated it had come to his attention that within the next year or
two, Trunk Highway 10 would be turned back into a County State Aid Highway, as the
construction of Highways 118 and 610 was completed. He stated in his understanding, when the
work on these roads is completed, this would occur quite abruptly, in that the State would want
to re-designate the road, and would have some say with regard to the acceptance of the turnback.
Mr. Schmidt advised that there is an opportunity presented in this, whereby the City could obtain
some of the things that are needed and have been identified in the Comprehensive Plan and the
redevelopment plan for Highway 10. He explained that the City could probably obtain monies
from the State, and definitely work with the County, to insure that the road is in good repair, and
to some extent, reconfigured more to the City's liking.
Mr. Schmidt stated there was a specific opportunity with cooperative agreements that commence
at this time, and run through October, for fiscal year 2001, wherein monies could be made
available. He stated he would encourage the City to examine this, and determine if anything
could be done in this regard, as the turnback of Highway 10 would occur at approximately the
same time.
Mayor Coughlin stated staff could certainly look into this, adding that this was wise counsel.
Dan Mueller, 8343 Groveland Road, stated his concern was in regard to the speed of travel on
Groveland Road. He indicated he has been to City Hall on several occasions, and twice before
the Council to request something be done about this problem, however, in his opinion, his
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 15
comments were ignored. He stated he did not believe he was requesting too much, but rather,
was asking for the safety of the children on their street.
Mr. Mueller stated he could remember when different individuals had taken office, and their
streets appeared to be patrolled quite heavily. He indicated Long Lake Road has sidewalks, and
although the residents probably do not desire sidewalks on Groveland Road, this street has now
become a direct thoroughfare for commuters between Highway 10, and 85`h Avenue, travelling
out to Highway 118, and then 35W, because of the lack of metering lights.
Mr. Mueller stated this traffic was not generated by the people living on these streets, but rather
by people passing through the area. He noted that earlier, Mayor Coughlin had indicated they
would like to obtain some hard earned cash from people at the golf course, and pointed out that
they could obtain much hard earned cash from many of these people, if they put some of the
Police Officers on this street. He stated he realized that they are limited in this regard, however,
he did not believe this was a passing issue. He advised that the problem persists, and the more
these people utilize this street, and as Highway 118 is developed, the worse the situation
becomes.
Mr. Mueller stated in his opinion, this was a major problem, and something must be done about
it. He commented that there could not have that many "bad guys" running around Mounds
View. He suggested that if the Police Department would flood this area for one week, it would
send a message to the people who use the street on a daily basis. He stated he was able to
identify the vehicles that traveled this street every day, and these were the same people.
Mayor Coughlin indicated he lived on the north end of town, on Sprang Lake Road, and the
Director of Public Works could attest to the fact that this road is in an extremely poor state of
repair. He stated this road would be renovated in the coming months, however vehicles speed in
this area as well. He explained that he stands by his mailbox, and sees trucks and busses
travelling at speeds in excess of 30 miles per hour. He stated he could understand Mr. Mueller's
concerns, because people use this road as acut-through between Highway 10 and County Road
J, as well.
Mayor Coughlin stated this was an ongoing concern, and he would speak to the Chief of Police
personally in this regard, and would continue to discuss the matter until it is resolved.
Mr. Mueller stated if the City could not afford signs, or the manpower necessary to put up the
signs, he was certain that he could obtain the help of several people in his neighborhood to assist
with this.
Mayor Coughlin reiterated that he would personally discuss this matter with the Chief of Police,
and would inform Mr. Mueller regarding the results of this.
Council Member Marty thanked Mr. Mueller for coming back before the Council. He explained
he was aware that Mr. Mueller had addressed this issue a number of times, and had received a
less than desirable response. He advised that this was one of the reasons this matter was
included as Unfinished Business on the Agenda, and would remain on Unfinished Business until
it is addressed.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 16
Jerry Blansky, 2933 Woodale Drive, stated he was before the Council for two reasons. He
indicated that he had come to observe the new Council for the first time, and also to formally
thank the Council, the previous Council, and City staff. He indicated he would be leaving the
meeting with a good impression of the new Council.
Mr. Blansky stated he was before the Council on December 28, regarding his frustration over the
cigarette machine at the Mermaid. He stated in one night alone, he and his wife had observed
two groups of teenagers purchasing cigarettes at this location. He advised that if this was
occurring this frequently in one night, it was likely occurring at different times as well.
Mr. Blansky indicated Assistant to the City Administrator Schmidt had called him, and told him
a switch had been installed on the cigarette machine. He stated he decided to test the switch, and
put his money in the cigarette machine, pulled the lever, and was not able to get any cigarettes.
He explained that he went to the bartender who pulled a switch, and the cigarettes came out of
the machine. He noted he had decided to test this further, to determine if the switch had been left
on, however, once again, he could not get cigarettes from the machine, and determined that this
system was working. He expressed his appreciation to the Council, and particularly to Assistant
to the City Administrator Schmidt, for sending the letter to the Mermaid regarding their cigarette
license.
Mr. Blansky noted a flyer at the Community Center, which indicates "Let's make smoking
extinct." He stated the City was distributing these flyers throughout the community, and by this
• action at the Mermaid, was doing their part to curtail these problems.
Mayor Coughlin extended his appreciation to Assistant to the City Administrator Schmidt for her
assistance in this regard.
There were no further requests or comments from the floor.
9. COUNCIL BUSINESS
A. Woodcrest Park Wetland Mitigation Public Hearing
Mayor Coughlin opened the Public Hearing at 8:00 p.m.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated this mitigation project commenced on behalf of the
wetland at the Community Center. He indicated staff and the consulting engineers surveyed
numerous sites through town to attempt find a suitable site for the mitigation of this wetland.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated approximately .48 acres was required to mitigate the
Community Center. He indicated out of all of this sites surveyed in the community, Woodcrest
Park was determined to be the best, in terms of its compatibility to the mitigation, and its
surroundings, and part of this was due to the original makeup of the area. He explained that 20
to 25 years ago, this area was very wet, and not much was done with it. Consequently street
sweepings and dumpings were put into the site, and eventually it became high enough, and in
some years, dry enough, to become a park. He stated park amenities were installed, including a
hockey rink, a park shelter, and playground equipment.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 17
Director of Public Works Ulrich indicated that in recent years the hockey rink was removed, due
to the difficulty in attempting to get ice to the area, and maintaining the ice, which involved a
considerable effort. He stated the park shelter structure, which was currently very unstable due
to the shifting soils and the very high water table, was cited for removal and replacement this
year. He added that in many years the playground area is under water, and is almost unusable at
times.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated the City Council directed staff to proceed with the
permitting for the mitigation of the Community Center site, and a $20,000 bond was presented to
the Rice Creek Water Shed District to continue with this site. He indicated that through the
permit process, the City has one year in which to commence the mitigation. He explained that
this public hearing was being held on order to obtain public input into this project.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated staff has sought comments from the Rice Creek
Watershed District regarding the stipulations of the mitigation. He advised that State Statute
requires the City mitigate the wetland within the community, and also within the local watershed,
which is the Rice Creek Watershed District
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated the last opportunity the City would have to do anything in
terms of mitigation would be to purchase some credits in an available wetland bank, and the only
available wetland bank they could find was in Columbus Township. He advised that according
to the Department of Natural Resources, the Army Corps of Engineers, the Rice Creek
Watershed District, and local statutes, that would not be acceptable.
Director of Public Works Ulrich explained that the entire park would be removed from its
current state. He stated the building would be removed, as well as the playground equipment,
which would likely be relocated to Groveland Park. He indicated there would be two water
quality ponds, one located on the east end of the park, along Woodcrest Drive, and another small
pond, along Silver Lake Road, with a bituminous walking path throughout the entire area.
Council Member Marty inquired when the time period for mitigation would expire.
Director of Public Works Ulrich explained that barring any contingency or major difficulties, the
project would be completed in November of 1999.
Council Member Marty advised that there are a number of parks in Mounds View, however, only
two parks on the south side of the City. He indicated the Parks and Recreation Commission had
discussed the possibility of relocating the playground equipment to Random Park, because the
equipment currently at this park is designed primarily for very young children. He pointed out
that this would provide that the residents on the south side of Highway 10 would have a greater
variety of playground equipment.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated staff could research this matter. He noted Random Park
has its own unique wet areas, as well. He explained that to the south of the shelter, which is
about the only grassy area of the park, with the exception of a small area along the Long Lake
Road frontage, this park was also is very wet during wet years and periods of high rain.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 18
Director of Public Works Ulrich indicated the proposed project has received Park Board
approval. He stated the previous Parks and Recreation Director had taken this proposal before
the Board, which saw this as a good site for a passive park.
Mayor Coughlin stated he had also spoken with Director of Public Works Ulrich regarding
options of looking into the property that would be created with the realignment of Edgewood
Drive. He pointed out that the Council has expressed a desire to relocate the holding pond to the
other side of the street, and there may be some potential to work with this land in terms of
mitigating the Community Center wetland as well. He stated he had brought this forward late in
the day, therefore, the Public Works Director has been unable to obtain the opinion of the City
engineers, however, this may be another option. He indicated although he would like to obtain
as much public comment as possible at this time, he was inclined to continue the matter until
staff has had the opportunity to explore other options.
Council Member Marty stated the question regarding the use of this area has been put to the
public in a survey, in the latest edition of the Mounds View Matters. He indicated that if the
residents complete this survey, and return it to City Hall, it could assist in the decision regarding
whether or not to have a wetland adjacent to City Hall, and possibly developing this area, or
maintaining the area as green space. He stated public comments were welcome and necessary.
Director of Public Works Ulrich advised that the reason the entire park was proposed for this
project was the possibility that they could create approximately 1.5 acres of wetland bank. He
noted there were some discussions with the Ramsey County Soil and Water Resource Board, as
well as various engineering opinions and observations regarding this site. He explained that
these observations, further research into the sail borings, and actual samples would be available
in approximately two weeks. He indicated that if they determine the entire park could be turned
back into a wetland, this would result in approximately 1.5 acres of wetland credit. He explained
that this is very close to the amount of acreage that would be required in the future, if Silver Lake
Road is reconstructed, and a trail placed along the entire length, from County Road H, to Trunk
Highway 10. He stated the 1.5 acres of wetland credit could be utilized for this purpose, sold, or
banked for other purposes.
Mayor Coughlin pointed out that in light of the fact that the soil borings would be submitted in
two weeks, it would behoove the Council to continue this discussion until this information is
available. He indicated however, the Council would welcome the comments of the public at this
time.
Jerry Galvin, 5080 Long View Drive stated his home was approximately two houses from
Woodcrest Park. He indicated that it was difficult on the weekend at any given time, not to see
someone playing in this park. He stated the Woodcrest Park was supposed to have been
completed 30 years ago, and some type of a fence was supposed to have been constructed along
the ditch. He stated he understood there was a significant wetland problem in this area. He
indicated he also understood the City was not completely prepared for the public hearing at this
time.
Mr. Galvin stated he had seen no drawings of this proposal, however, he expected to examine the
drawings before the decisions were finalized. He indicated he has been a resident of Mounds
View for 40 years, and his children play in Woodcrest Park. He stated there were four parks on
the north side of Highway 10, and 2 to the south, however he could not see sending a 5 or 6 year-
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 19
old child from Long View Drive to Random Park to play. He stated he believed Woodcrest Park
was necessary, and should be upgraded, instead of downgraded.
•
Mayor Coughlin stated Director of Public Works Ulrich has some plans that were drawn by the
City Engineer, and in as much as they might be helpful, staff could provide Mr. Galvin a copy.
He pointed out that this park, at least in part, was built upon a peat bog, and the ground was
unstable. He advised that if they chose to retain the park, they would have to build the structures
on pilings, in order to stabilize them.
Bruce Brazenly, 5127 Long Lake Road, stated he respected Mr. Galvin's opinions, and has not
lived in the City for the same length of time, however, he has been observing the park for many
years. He indicated his property was in close proximity to the corner of Woodcrest Drove and
Long Lake Road, and he oftentimes drove past the park. He stated in his opinion as an earth
scientist, his education being in geology, it would be very difficult to significantly improve a
park in that location, due to the underlying surface geology.
Mr. Brazenly stated he believed this area was a peat bog, after having watched it for many years,
and noting the instability of the ground when the ice rink was in place, as well as seeing the
water that runs into the volleyball pit and the playground area. He advised that unless they were
to actually excavate the peat, and bring fill into the area, which would be very expensive, it
would be nearly impossible to stabilize this ground to the point that it would cease to attempt to
continue its life as a wetland. He pointed out that this was the original nature of this area, and
this was how it should return.
Mr. Brazenly stated he was a strong advocate of parks. He indicated that the best solution would
be to find another area south of Highway 10 that could be considered as a replacement for this
park. He stated there were some lots toward the western edge of the City that are either owned
by the City, or were at one time. He stated consideration of a park in this area might stir up some
controversy, because the residents may or may not wish to have a park located adjacent to them,
however, it would be worth investigating.
Mr. Brazenly stated he did not have all of the answers, and did not necessarily completely
disagree with Mr. Galvin. He stated he saw a need for parks south of Highway 10, having been a
resident of the area for more than 7 years. He advised that Random Park and Silver View Park
are located quite a distance from a certain section of town, particularly the southwest corner, and
something should be considered in this area, in order to mitigate the loss of the park. He advised
however, it would be appropriate to return Woodcrest Park to its natural state, which is that of a
wetland.
Ann Perkins, 5113 Red Oak Drive, stated her house literally backs up into Woodcrest Park. She
stated she has lived on this property for 23 years, and has had lake front property many times
when it rains. She noted that the previous Saturday, there were even ducks in the area.
Mrs. Perkins stated in her opinion, the park shelter is an eyesore, and she would like to see it be
removed. She indicated the building was musty smelling, and currently has a broken window,
which has been boarded up.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 20
Mrs. Perkins stated she did not object to the parking lot, and it would be nice if the playground
equipment could remain. She pointed out that her children had played in this park. She advised
• however, the area was always wet, and would always be a swamp.
Mrs. Perkins indicated there was a park in New Brighton, one street over on Red Oak Drive,
which her children also played at, and this park was dry. She stated this park was closer than the
others were, and she had taken the time to walk there with her children, when they were young
Mike Doran, 5092 Long View Drive, stated his home was located on the corner of Woodcrest
Drive and Longview Road. He stated he has lived in this area for approximately one year, and
the park was one of the reasons they had purchased this property. He stated he has many family
members who enjoy playing volleyball, and they have planned to use the volleyball court. He
indicated he also has younger family members who enjoy using the playground equipment. He
stated with the exception of these areas, the park is generally under water.
Mr. Doran indicated that people use this park, and let their children play on the slides. He stated
he was not certain what was best for the park, however, he would like the volleyball courts and
playground equipment to remain.
Jerry Blansky, 2833 Woodale Drive, stated he had not prepared for this discussion, and was not
aware this matter would be coming forward at this time. He indicated this land had originally
belonged to his grandmother. He advised that this was lowland, comprised of cattails and other
vegetation, and full of holes, however, the children enjoyed playing in it. He explained that
when Twelve Oaks, all of which was his grandmother's property, was developed, his cousins had
taken the property and extended north in one section, and as this property was unbuildable, it was
donated to the City for a park.
Mr. Blansky stated he would still like to see this land remain a park, however, it has not been
maintained. He explained that it is full of weeds and water holes, and the sand and the timbers
are not taken care of. He stated there has been no fence for the moat, and people are reluctant to
bring their children to the park because of the deep water along Silver Lake Road, and even
along Woodcrest Drive, however, for whatever small reason, he would like to see the park
remain.
Mr. Blansky suggested an area of this property might be excavated to allow the land to drain. He
pointed out that that when the area south of Random Park was developed, they excavated the
land and drenched it all out to create a nice lake, and built homes around it. He stated he was not
aware if this was possible in this area, however, he would like to have the options researched to
see if they could leave the park. He added that this was not only for sentimental reasons,
however, that was part of it
Mayor Coughlin stated if this matter is postponed, staff could certainly explore these options as
well.
David Fitzgerald, 5107 Red Oak Drive, stated his property was adjacent to and overlooking the
. park. He indicated in his opinion, a city has no boundaries, as far as children are concerned. He
stated he was aware of the park two blocks south, in the New Brighton area, and in his opinion,
this is a very mce place for children to play.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 21
Mr. Fitzgerald stated Woodcrest Park has been a good weed site during the last two years, and he
would rather see cattail with a pond, and ducks, than ground level water, which promotes weeds.
He reiterated that two blocks from this area was a very nice park for children to play in, and
although it may not be in Mounds View, he did not believe children were particular regarding
which city they played in.
Mr. Fitzgerald stated he would like to see Woodcrest Park come back to nature, in the sense hat
there was nothing wrong with the pond. He stated it was enjoyable to watch children throw
stones in a pond, as well as play in a park, and this simply depends upon what the surrounding
residents desire to have around their houses. He stated he would like to have moved to lake front
property a few years ago. He added that hopefully, with this proposal, he would not have to
move out of Mounds View, because this would be in his back yard.
Mayor Coughlin closed the Public Hearing at 8:30 p.m.
Mayor Coughlin stated, in the interest of time he would move to continue the public hearing
process, in order to discuss this matter further at a future Work Session, once staff has gathered
the information. He stated he would also indicated that the decision regarding which Agenda
this item would be placed on, would be at the discretion of the City Administrator and himself.
MOTION/SECOND: Coughlin/Marty. To Continue the Public Hearing Process, in Order To
Discuss this Matter Further at a Future Work Session, Once Staff has Gathered the Information,
and that the Decision Regarding Which Agenda this Item be Placed On, Be at the Discretion of
the City Administrator and Himself.
Council Member Stigney stated Director of Public Works Ulrich had earlier mentioned that
wetland credits up at Columbus Township not applicable because the Rice Creek Watershed
District would no longer approve them. He inquired if there were any alternate sources for
wetland credits that could be utilized.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated to his awareness, there were not. He pointed out that he
had learned about the Columbus Township site from the Rice Creek Watershed District, at the
time this project commenced at the Community Center.
Council Member Stigney stated the estimated cost for this project was $174,100. He added that
the Rice Creek Watershed District does not want the City to move the mitigation out of the City,
and would not approve or allow this. He inquired therefore, if the Watershed District was
willing to share in the cost of this project.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated they were not. He indicated he had posed this question to
the Watershed District Administrator, in that, if it was to cost the City $174,000 to do this, and
part of the permit process was to provide $20,000 to purchase wetland credits, why would the
City wish to spend this amount of money. He stated the response was for the same reasons he
had earlier stipulated, in that it is by State Statute that the City must do everything within its
power and means to mitigate the wetland within the watershed district, and the City.
M Director of Public Works Ulrich stated many people have comments regarding the pros and cons
of wetlands versus playgrounds, however, the matter is regulated by State Statute. He advised
that if the City had absolutely no undevelopable land, and no place to mitigate the Community
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 22
Center, they would have the opportunity to purchase wetland credits, however the Watershed
District does not see this as a viable option.
i
Council Member Stigney inquired if there were any other governmental entities that might assist
with the financing in this effort.
Director of Public Works UIrich stated not that he was aware of, however, he could research this.
He pointed out that when he had spoken with the Watershed District Administrator, Kate
brewery, earlier in this regard, she had indicated this was somewhat the cost for doing business,
in that when you mitigate a wetland, you must provide for its replacement.
Council Member Stigney asked the City Attorney if the City had any legal options or avenues
that might be pursued by a city for wetland mitigation.
City Attorney Riggs stated he was not aware of any. He indicated that in his experience with
other cities, this was basically a "bite the bullet" situation.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated the cost estimate presented to the Council was based
upon the mitigation of the entire site, and actually receiving the credits. He explained that this
proposal would represent some value, if 1.5 acres of wetland credits were made available for
resale to a private entity or citizen group, or for future mitigation. He pointed out that if they
determine in a few weeks, through the soil borings, that this is not entirely possible, then the cost
of the project would decrease.
Council Member Marty stated the area north of Woodcrest Park was a designated wetland. He
inquired if there was any way this area of wetland could be expanded.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated he believed it probably could be expanded, however, he
did not believe the City owned this property. He indicated there was a small area of wetland that
extends down into the park at this time.
Council Member Marty stated particularly last fall, when he was campaigning for office, a
number of residents along Silver Lake Road had asked about a sidewalk or pathway in this area.
He inquired if this would not be possible unless they gave up Woodcrest Park, in that they would
need some reserve wetland acreage in order to create such a pathway.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated this was correct. He explained that the City would be
responsible for the mitigation of the additional construction of a bike path or sidewalk along that
area. He stated the City would share in this cost with the County, if they decided to proceed with
this, and according to the calculations of the City engineer, this acreage would be approximately
the amount required to construct an eight-foot path along that entire segment.
Ayes - 4 Nays - 0 Motion carried.
B. Public Hearing and Consideration of Resolution 5314, a Resolution
Regarding a Conditional Use Permit to Operate an Outdoor Flower Mart at
the Moundsview Square Shopping Center.
Mayor Coughlin opened the Public Hearing at 8:40 p.m.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 23
Planning Associate Ericson stated Peter Linder, representing Linder's Greenhouses has applied
for a conditional use permit to operate the Linder's Flower Mart in the parking lot at
Moundsview Square. He indicated Linder's Greenhouses has been in operation at this location
for the previous six to seven years, and no changes have been proposed from the previous
operation. He advised that the City requires any outdoor sales or service operation to go through
the conditional use permit process.
Planning Associate Ericson stated the issue currently before the Council pertains to the
discussion of previous Councils and the Planning Commission, in regard to whether or not this
process could move forward in a manner that would not require the applicant to come back
before the Council in subsequent years. He explained that this would be applicable as long as
this was a business the City desired to have, and there were no problems with it. He indicated
this could be accomplished by creating a set of stipulations that would have to be met on an
annual basis, and these stipulations would be vague in the sense that they would not pertain to
one particular year.
Planning Associate Ericson stated the costs involved in this operation would be the deposit for
the hydrant, and deposits for any hardware, such as a wrench or an adapter valve, that would be
required to be paid on an annual basis. He indicated the water usage charge would be calculated
at the prevailing rate of 1,000 gallons per day, and this has been done in the past without any
complications whatsoever.
Planning Associate Ericson stated the Planning Commission examined the conditional use permit
requirements, and found that they have been met, as they were m previous years. Staff has
consulted with the City Attorney to insure that the Planning Commission resolution, which was
approved, would be enforceable, and the City Attorney has indicated that it would be. Staff has
also reviewed the Minnesota State Statutes to verify that this is possible, and has determined that
it is, as long as the agreed upon conditions that are the basis of the conditional use permit are
met.
Planning Associate Ericson stated staff proposes that in subsequent years, the applicant bring
forward certain materials, including a Letter of Intent, and a letter of permission for the use the
property from the land owner. He advised that staff believes, with these stipulations, this
proposal could work to the benefit of both the applicant and the City, and would not require staff
go through the various processes they seem to perform on a repetitive basis each subsequent
year.
Planning Associate Ericson outlined the Council's options for action. He stated staff has drafted
Resolution 5314, a resolution of approval, which mirrors the language and stipulations contained
in the resolution approved by the Planning Commission. He explained that if the Council desires
to act upon this item, any additional stipulations could be included, as well.
Planning Associate Ericson stated the applicant was present and available to answer any
questions.
Mayor Coughlin inquired if Resolution 5314 was essentially a re-draft of the resolution approved
by the Planning Commission.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 24
Planning Associate Ericson stated this was correct.
Mayor Coughlin inquired if this action would in any way, preclude the Council, the Planning
Commission, or any member of the City from revisiting this item.
Planning Associate Ericson stated it would not. He explained that one of the stipulations
indicates that the conditional use permit may be reviewed by the Planning Commission and the
City Council, at the prompting of the Council, or in the event there are any problems associated
with the operation, which come forward within any given year. He indicated this matter could be
brought back before the Council, and there was nothing that limits the City's ability to revisit it.
Council Member Marty stated one of the reasons that Linder's has received approval in the past
is because the City does not have any greenhouses. He inquired if the City realizes any financial
benefit from this operation.
Planning Associate Ericson stated not directly. He explained that the operation is a benefit to the
residents of the City, and there is a possibility of a minor economic spin-off, in terms of bringing
consumers into the shopping center, however, the City does not realize any direct economic
benefit from the operation.
Council Member Marty stated he approved of the manner in which the Planning Commission has
laid this out, particularly Item 7, which indicates "The applicant shall provide the following on
an annual basis to the Director of Community Development:
a. Letter of permission from property owner.
b. Complete set of site plans.
c. Narrative description of the proposal.
Council Member Marty stated the Planning Commission had done a good job, and he concurred
with their determination.
Council Member Thomason noted language in the resolution that indicates "BE IT FURTHER
RESOLVED that this Conditional Use Permit shall have no expiration date and shall remain in
force so long as the conditions agreed upon herein are observed." She stated she had been
concerned that there was no clause for "at will" termination by both parties, however, Planning
Associate Ericson had addressed this with his explanation.
MOTION/SECOND: Stigney/Coughlin. To Approve Resolution 5314, Allowing for the
Conditional Use Permit for Linder's Greenhouses, in a Form Consistent with Planning
Commission Resolution No. 573-99.
Council Member Stigney stated the Planning Commission examined this matter in detail, and
were attempting to simplify the process. He indicated he agreed with Council Member
Thomason's comment pertaining to the ability of each party to cancel at will.
Mayor Coughlin stated this was intrinsically understood. He indicated he would second the
motion, however, as this was a public hearing, he would entertain public comment on the matter
prior to the vote.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 25
Bruce Brazenly, 5127 Long Lake Road, stated as one of the commissioners who had done some
work on this matter, he would greatly appreciate this approach, not only for Linder's
Greenhouses, but for other vendors as well. He pointed out that this would cut down on City
staff time, as well as the time of the volunteer commissioners. He indicated this was a good
move in the right direction.
Mayor Coughlin stated he would concur, in that he is generally opposed to "red tape."
There was no further public input.
Mayor Coughlin closed the Public Hearing at 8:55 p.m.
Mayor Coughlin requested for official statement, Council Member Stigney renew the motion.
MOTION/SECOND: Stigney/Coughlin. To Approve Resolution 5314, Allowing for the
Conditional Use Permit for Linder's Greenhouses, in a Form Consistent with Planning
Commission Resolution No. 573-99.
Ayes - 4 Nays - 0 Motion carried.
C. Consideration of Edgewood Drive Realignment and T.H. 10 Signal Project
Bid
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated staff received five bids for the Edgewood Drive/Trunk
Highway 10 signalization project. He indicated the low bidder was W.B. Miller, with a bid price
of $463,311.85. He stated Barry Peterson of SEH has provided a detailed analysis of the entire
bid packages, and amounts.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated staff recommends that the award be made to W.B. Miller,
with a contingency that the plans have not received final approval from MNDot. He stated staff
had recently been made aware of the fact that one of the individuals on the MNDot Review
Committee has been on vacation for the last three weeks. He explained that staff does not
anticipate any major problems, however, all of the members of this committee must put their
stamp of approval on this project.
Council Member Thomason inquired regarding the time frame for MNDot approval of this
matter.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated he would hope to receive approval within the coming
week. He indicated this matter was still in the process of review by Final Plans, and the
Hydraulic Unit at MNDot. He explained that it has already been through this process once,
comments and corrections have been addressed, and this was the final review, therefore, he
would assume that the approval would be forwarded very soon.
Council Member Marty inquired if there was any further information with regard to obtaining
signal lights.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated he did not foresee any problems in this regard. He
advised that in many cases, MNDot has specifications for the design of their signals, for
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 26
example, where there is limited right-of--way, and signals must be moved farther away from the
• road surface, or arms must be extended, and more design is necessary for the strengthening of the
signal. He explained these are the situations that may result in some delays, however, Highway
10 has a standard right-of--way, and there was no need anticipated for further design on the
signals.
Council Member Marty inquired if the signal lights would be obtained without delay.
Director of Public Works stated not at this time. He explained that the turn lanes for Highway
10, include the right-in, right-out at the Theater entrance, and both those on the north and south
end of town. He stated the turn lanes north of Donatelli's were the first scheduled to proceed,
and they have 10 days in which to complete this installation. He pointed out that in light of the
good weather and relatively little frost, they should be able to commence with this in short order.
He stated the intersection would be the next scheduled part of the project, in order to provide that
it would be fully functional without the signal lights, before they are installed. He indicated the
work on Edgewood Drive would coincide with the work on the intersection.
Jim Schmidt, 5446 Ericson Drive stated the Council was violating one of the Golden Rules. He
requested clarification regarding whether or not the signal plan had been approved.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated it was.
Mr. Schmidt indicated that after a project is awarded, if there are any changes to the plan, this
could be costly for the City. He inquired if there would be any impact on the progression of the
fob, if the award were to be made m two weeks. He indicated the work could not commence,
prior to obtaining the signatures of approval, and if awarding the bid could be held off until the
approval was obtained. He explained that once the bid is awarded, the City would be committed.
He inquired what the benefit there would be in awarding the job before the signatures are in
place, as opposed to the potential risk.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated staff's recommendation, as indicated in the Staff Report,
is to award the bid, contingent upon MNDot final approval. He advised that if the final approval
comes back and involves a large amount of money that was not anticipated, at that point, the
contract would not be approved. He explained that this action would simply allow them to
remain in synchronization with the time line, and not require an additional two weeks to bring
the project back before the Council. He stated that this would provide that if MNDot approval is
received within the next few days, and there are no significant changes, they could proceed with
the matter.
Mr. Schmidt stated he was not aware that such a contingency could be included, however, this
addressed his concerns.
Mayor Coughlin noted for the record, Mr. Schmidt worked in this field, and had some experience
in this regard.
. Mr. Schmidt stated this was correct. He indicated Director of Public Works Ulrich was aware, as
was he, that one of the three Golden Rules was not to award a bid before final approval,
however, this did not appear to be what was being suggested.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 27
Council Member Marty expressed his thanks to Mr. Schmidt for posing this question, and to
Director of Public Works Ulrich, for having the City covered.
Wendell Smith, representative of Anthony Properties stated they would request the Council vote
in favor of this item, with the contingency indicated.
David Jahnke, 8428 Eastwood Road, inquired regarding the term "significant changes." He
pointed out that the word "significant" is quite open, and could mean different things. He
requested clarification in this regard.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated this term had been utilized in two different contexts. He
explained that the plan has already been through the MNDot Committees for additional
comment, and the corrections have been made. He noted that the majority of these corrections
were merely identifying what would be State Aid eligible, and what would not. He indicated he
had moved some of the amounts from the Surface Water Fund into a Local Project, and staff had
submitted the entire parking lot project, because the design must be completely reconfigured in
order to be State Aid qualified. He stated they anything that was within the right-of--way was
discarded as local funding. He explained that all of these corrections have been made, and the
last portion of the recommendation would authorize the Director of Public Works to sign all
change orders up to the amount of 10 percent. He advised that staff does not anticipate this
amount would be exceeded with this project, because they are so close with regard to the
approvals.
i Mr. Smith stated the original estimate from the City engineers was slightly over $600,000, and
the current proposal would be coming in at slightly over $400,000, therefore, there was already a
$200,000 savings between the estimated cost and the actual cost.
Mayor Coughlin thanked Mr. Smith for pointing this out. He stated that actual bid was
approximately $463,000.
MOTION/SECOND: Coughlin/Marty: To Approve Staffs Recommendation, Contingent Upon
Final Approval from MNDot, Given the Parameters the Director of Public Works has Indicated,
in that Action Could not Occur Until the Information is Received, and If There is Anything of
Any Significance, Over 10 Percent of the Bid, Brought Forward, that Was Not Anticipated
During the First Review of this Matter, this Action Would be Halted, and Be Brought Back
Before the Council for Further Consideration, Subject to a 5 Percent Change Order Limit, Before
Being Required to Come Back Before the Council.
Council Member Stigney stated he had previously been put on the spot for voting for something
he really did not desire to vote for, under the threat of legal obligation. He stated he would have
felt more comfortable with this, if the developer was paying half the cost for the signal light,
rather than one-quarter, while the City pays three-quarters, however, he would support this
action, in that the Council is legally obligated to proceed with it.
Council Member Thomason pointed out that 10 percent of $463,000 was still quite a significant
amount of money. She inquired if the Council would have an opportunity to review the changes,
if any, in terms of a specific dollar amount, rather than a percentage. She stated she found the
bid acceptable, however, was concerned that it remain that amount.
Mounds View City Council March ZZ, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 28
Council Member Marty suggested the change order limit be changed to 5 percent.
Mayor Coughlin inquired if Council Member Marty would care to offer this as a friendly
amendment, and requested Director of Public Works Ulrich speak to this issue.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated the change order percentage, which varies somewhat by
project and agency requirements, is utilized for unforeseen situations that occur on the job. He
explained that if they were to begin excavating land that is currently park land, and determined
that between the 20 foot soil borings, 40 or 50 yards of asphalt had been dropped in, this
contingency would authorize him to have the ability to allow the contractor to proceed. He
stated he did not anticipate that the contract or the amount of the lineal concrete in curb and
gutter would change. He added that he did not anticipate any additional costs in terms of the
holding pond or storm sewer, or anything of that nature. He advised that the change order was
merely a formality in the plan.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated if there are any significant changes in the plan, the matter
should come back before the Council, because they would also have to obtain an addendum from
the contractor who was awarded. He indicated that if an item comes forward that results in
having to have the job rebid, and would significantly alter the bid price, they would have to go
back to the contractor to determine if they were willing to rebid the job. He stated that in this
case, Council approval would also be required.
Council Member Marty stated he would feel more comfortable if the Council was informed if the
amount exceeded $23,000, rather than $46,000, because in his opinion, $46,000 was a significant
amount of money. He pointed out that even $23,000 could be significant, if it proceeded in the
same manner as the Community Center, and began to get out of hand. He stated he did not
foresee this occurring, however, he would like to be apprised of any changes.
Director of Public Works Ulrich suggested the Council stipulate that any significant change to
the plan that would affect the bid amount be brought back before the Council for additional
approval.
Mayor Coughlin stated this would preferable to setting an arbitrary amount.
Director of Public Works Ulrich explained that the contingency amount is set, simply to insure
that the project continues to move forward. He stated if they were to set a contingency of $100,
that may be sufficient, however, if the actual difference is $200, and staff has to obtain approval
from the Council in order to proceed, the project must wait possibly two to three weeks to obtain
that approval.
Mayor Coughlin added that having worked in the construction field, he was aware that they deal
with the hidden costs, cost overruns, change orders, and the like. He stated he recognized the
need for language of this nature, if only to provide that they, as the Council do not have to spend
hour after hour discussing these matters.
Council Member Marty stated he would be satisfied with a $23,000 contingency. He indicated
he would not desire to halt the work on this project for every small issue that may come forward.
Director of Public Works Ulrich stated this was acceptable.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 29
Mayor Coughlin stated he would be agreeable amend the motion as indicated.
Ayes - 4 Nays - 0 Motion carried.
D. Resolution 5323 Authorizing Application for DTED Redevelopment Grant
Economic Development Coordinator Kevin Carroll stated he had provided the Council with a
memorandum that summarizes the background of this item. He explained that the Department of
Trade and Economic Development has grant funds that are available as a result of action taken
by the Legislature the previous year. He indicated these funds were a total of four million
dollars, divided up into two grant cycles, the first of which, ended last fall.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll stated the previous Council had authorized him to
submit a grant application to DTED seeking financial assistance with respect to the Mermaid
Project which was pending at that time, and is currently pending. He presented the Council with
a copy of the grant application that was previously submitted, which consisted of a number of
questions that were required to be answered with regard to the project. He explained that staff
had also provided a number of exhibits including maps, letters, and other relevant information.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll stated staff had requested a $500,000 grant from
DTED, which was a substantial amount of money, however, they had been uncertain regarding
the amount of funding DTED was considering awarding. He noted DTED did not indicate in
advance the number of grants they would award, and what the amounts would be, and since this
was a new program, staff thought it best to aim for a large amount. He stated out of the top
twenty applicants, the City finished tenth, and DTED funded the top six. He indicated the
amounts of these grants were referenced in the staff materials he had provided the Council.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll advised that although the Mermaid Project has not
reached any form of resolution, the City was facing an April 1 deadline in connection with this
redevelopment grant. He stated this was the deadline for submitting applications for the second
phase of the redevelopment grant application process. He indicated that one of the options
available was to update the previous grant application, and resubmit it. He stated a substantial
amount of work was involved with the first application, however, updating the application would
involve the addition of information regarding the progress of the project since the original
submittal, possibly updating some of the exhibits, and would require approximately 2 or 3 hours
of his time.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll pointed out that the fact that the project has not
been formally approved could possibly be used as an argument in favor of the grant. He
explained that they could continue to maintain that in the absence of grant funds from the State,
it might not be financially feasible to proceed with the project.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll stated staff might fine-tune the application by
scaling back on the amount of money they are requesting. He explained that of the six grants
that were previously authorized, only was for an amount over $500,000, therefore they might
tnm their request back a brt.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 30
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll stated these grant funds would be potentially used
for environmental improvements in the vicinity of the project site. He advised that there is
currently a small holding pond located behind the business known as Music Off-Ten, however,
this pond does not take drainage from any area other than some of the parking lots in the
Business Park South. He stated all of the surface water drainage coming off of the Mermaid,
some of the other businesses nearby, some of the other parking lots, etc. was all running into
Rice Creek, along with any contaminants that may be collected along the way. He stated thus
far, the Rice Creek Watershed District has not insisted the City take some action to prevent this
type of runoff or treat it, however, at some point in time they might in the future. He pointed out
that at that time, in the event that the City does not have funds from some other source to deal
with this, the City funds would be needed for that purpose. He stated staff sees this proposal as
an opportunity to generate funds that could be utilized to everyone's benefit.
Council Member Stigney inquired if the City would be undertaking any type of commitment by
requesting the grant.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll advised that if the City finishes first in the
application process, with the greatest number of points, and DTED awarded the full amount of
the grant, they City could still reject it. He stated that if the project was not been finalized at
some point, he believed DTED would be willing to wait for a period of time, however, if it was
not completed in time, the City might lose the grant. He explained that DTED would then turn
the money over to one of the other applicants.
Council Member Marty stated in the resolution authorizin a lication for the redevelopment
g PP
grant, the second "BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED" indicates "The Mounds View City Council
has the legal authority to apply for financial assistance." He inquired why the City Council was
applying for this grant, and not the Mermaid.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll explained that this grant program is set up in a
manner that private entities may not apply for it. He stated this must be done through a
governmental agency, and the governmental agency must take responsibility for the
administration of the grant funds. He stated there are other types of loan and grant programs
available through the State for businesses, however, this program was initially designed to assist
cities with certain types of improvements within their own communities. He advised that the
underlying premise for this program is that raw land is generally developed quite easily, and
there are businesses that would want to build on this Iand, however, in terms of redevelopment,
particularly in cases where the property is blighted in some manner, or there are environmental
problems, additional financial incentive is necessary. He stated this program was set up for
cities, counties and other governmental agencies.
Council Member Marty noted the third "BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED" in the resolution
indicates "...the sources and amounts of the local match." He inquired if this represented that
the City would be required to match the grant funds.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll stated this was somewhat correct. He stated one of
the requirements of the grant is that the city or governmental entity pay for at least one half of
the redevelopment costs, or at minimum, an amount comparable to the amount the State would
award. He stated that if in fact, Tax Increment Financing assistance were provided for this
project, for example, in an amount in excess of $500,000, this would be the City's contribution.
Mounds View City Council March 22,1999
Regular Meeting Page 31
He explained that if they sought a grant from DTED in the amount of $400,000, as long as the
City provided at least $400,000 of Tax Increment Financing assistance, this would be considered
the local match. He advised that the City would not be required to contribute any money, over
and above the amount of Tax Increment Financing assistance that was provided.
Council Member Marty inquired if the City would automatically be obligated to match the funds,
if this grant is approved.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll stated the City would be obligated to match the
funds, if they would like to receive the funds. He explained that if DTED grants the City
$400,000, and the Mermaid Project progresses, and the City Council decides not to provide any
financial assistance of any kind, there would be no funds to match the DTED grant, and the City
would lose the grant.
Council Member Marty inquired if the City would not be obligated in this case.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll stated this was correct.
Council Member Thomason inquired what amount was being proposed for application.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll stated he would research the original calculations.
He advised that staff was considering both the land acquisition costs, and the cost of constructing
a holding pond, and routing surface water runoff into the pond. He indicated this was the
formula utilized to determine the original amount. He pointed out that the City could potentially
acquire property, and then would be required to own that property in perpetuity, in order for the
pond to be located upon it. He stated one of the requirements of the DTED grant is that you
could not utilize the grant funds to acquire property that would ultimately go to a private
company or a private individual. He stated the City could do this, however, if the did so, they
would have to refund a portion of the grant equivalent to the market value of the property. He
indicated staff was considering a grant amount in the range of $350,000 to $400,000, which
would make the application slightly more competitive, and would not appear to be overreaching.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll pointed out that of the two million dollars that is
available in this grant cycle, only 1.5 million is available for Metropolitan area communities. He
advised that by law, 25 percent of the funds is required to go to communities in the greater
Minnesota area, therefore, the total amount of available DTED funds was 1.5 million, and if the
City requested a third of that amount, it might undermine the chances of receiving it.
Council Member Marty inquired if the City would basically be utilizing this grant to purchase
property upon which to place the holding pond, and the City would own that pond.
Economic Development Coordinator stated this was correct. He stated the City would own the
property on which the pond is located, as well. He pointed out that the City might wish to own
the property for purposes of maintenance and maintaining control over the pond, as they would
likely not desire to delegate that responsibility to a private property owner.
Council Member Marty commented that the City might be liable to undertake this project,
regardless of the grant funds.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 32
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll stated this was correct. He explained that if the
funds come from DTED, it becomes City money, and then must be utilized in some manner
comparable to what was set forth in the grant application. He advised that the owners of the
Mermaid would not be solely responsible for the cost of the holding pond, because there is
surface water drainage coming from other sites, including some of the businesses located farther
down on the County road. He pointed out that this being the case, the City could attempt to pass
some of the costs on to those property owners, however, inevitably, the City would have some
financial responsibility, and this is a potential means to obtain funds for this.
MOTION/SECOND: Thomason/Stigney. To Approve Resolution No 5323, a Resolution
Authorizing Application for Redevelopment Grant.
Ayes - 4 Nays - 0 Motion carried.
Economic Development Coordinator Carroll stated there was a related topic that Economic .
Development Director Jopke may wish to address. He explained that the Legislature is looking
at whether or not they are going to renew funding for this program, and Community
Development Director Jopke had spoken with an individual that date, who had inquired if the
City would be willing to go on record as supporting this program.
City Administrator Whiting stated a request had come in to staff, which was related to the
funding levels that the State would appropriate for this program. He indicated this request was
being made by a lobbying group that works on behalf of communities around the State for
additional funding, and they were attempting to see which communities might be in support of
this program. He advised that he had no further details at this time, and believed that prior to
requesting any statement from the Council, more information should be brought forward
regarding the status of this matter at the legislative level.
Economic Development Coordinator inquired if the Council would like to touch upon this matter
at the next Council Work Session.
Mayor Coughlin stated could discuss this matter briefly, if further information is available.
City Administrator Whiting indicated staff would report back to the Council in this regard.
E. Resolution 5324 Children's Home Agreement
Assistant to the City Administrator Schmidt stated the item before the Council is Resolution
5324, which authorizes the City to enter into a new lease agreement with Children's Home
Society. She explained that this item was actually before the Council, and approved in
Resolution 5295, although a few modifications have been made to the contract, and staff had
wanted to bring those modifications to the attention of the Council.
Assistant to the City Administrator Schmidt advised that one of the modifications indicates that
the base rent of $30,000 would be paid in quarterly installments during the first year, and that
Children's Home Society would be liable for the 1999 tuition, in any year they defaulted on the
contract.
Mounds View City Council March 22,1999
Regular Meeting Page 33
Council Member Marty noted an item in the Staff Report that indicates "Children's Home
Society will provide accounting information that demonstrates the fiscal problems they are
currently experiencing." He stated Council Member Stigney had indicated that the facility had
held a fundraiser, and recorded record fund-raising rates. He requested Council Member Stigney
speak to this.
Council Member Stigney stated he had obtained information from television, which indicated
that the Children's Home Society had held a record fund-raising event at the Community Center,
however, the manner in which the proceeds of this fund-raiser were apportioned to the different
districts, he was uncertain.
City Administrator Whiting stated staff had spoken with the Children's Home Society shortly
after Christmas with regard to the fund-raiser, having placed himself in the mindset they were
facing. He stated they had made a good effort at raising additional funds, however, prior to
raising those funds, they had been discussing this current proposal He stated the Children's
Home Society indicates that they feel they are making progress, however, are not yet where they
would like to be. He pointed out that with the number of children at the facility, they are at a
break even point, where it is still viable for them to stay in business, particularly if they can get
through 1999, however, they are not where they would like to be.
City Administrator Whiting stated there are currently 80 children at the facility, which has a
capacity of 96 or 98. He advised that in determining their budget, they were most likely
counting on this figure, while that fund raiser was taking place, therefore, their interest would not
to necessarily be to change the figure, and then attempt to re-do their budget.
City Administrator noted the Children's Home Society has been very good about communicating
their situation with staff, and staff should be able to obtain the solid information that is required
in the agreement.
Council Member Marty indicated the rent for this facility was forgiven in 1999. He inquired if
this was done in exchange for the playground equipment.
City Administrator Whiting stated this was correct. He indicated this equipment would also be
held as a liability for the term of the contract, and if, for some reason, the Children's Home
Society were to leave the premises early, they would owe that amount. He stated although they
are only three months into the year, the initial understanding with them was that this amount
would be approximately $7,000 to $15,000, depending upon the number of children at the
facility.
Council Member Marty inquired if they would owe this amount, in addition to the playground
equipment.
City Administrator Whiting stated this was correct. He explained that if they were able to
continue through the term of the agreement, there is a condition that the playground equipment
would go back to them.
• Assistant to the City Administrator Schmidt stated this was correct. She pointed out that if they
default on the contract, the rent that was forgiven in 1999 would have to be repaid, regardless of
the year this occurs within that five-year period.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 34
. Council Member Marty inquired if the Children's Home Society would take the playground
equipment with them.
Assistant to the City Administrator Schmidt stated they could do so, as long as they do not
default on the contract.
Council Member Marty stated it was his impression that anything that is permanently affixed to
the property, becomes the property.
City Administrator Whiting stated this was a good point. He explained that if the Children's
Home Society was to leave prior to the five-year period, and take the playground equipment with
them, he would suspect the City could either attempt to purchase this equipment at a discount, or
attempt to negotiate for new playground equipment with the new tenant. He stated the
Children's Home Society had made the entire decision regarding the type of playground
equipment at the facility, and he was not certain it would be anything the City would want,
although it is new, and looks good.
City Administrator Whiting stated the main concern he has had, in acting as a negotiator on this
matter over the last two or three years, has been in terms of getting them into the building,
keeping them in, and securing the cash flow for the operation of the facility. He stated this was
the primary concern, and the penalties that this agreement imposes, compared to the conditions
of the first agreement, are an attempt to secure that cash flow for the facility.
City Administrator Whiting during consideration of this matter by the previous Council, there
was some recognition that simply having the Children's Home Society services available was a
benefit to the community. He commented that this was something they would continue to have
to make a judgment on, however, this had opened the door to considering an alternative to the
initial agreement.
Mayor Coughlin interjected that at this time they had approximately 23 minutes left of the
meeting, and although he did not wish to rush the people's business, he would like to move
forward, so they could get as much dealt with as possible by the 10:00 deadline.
Council Member Stigney stated he had two questions, one pertaining to the rent. He stated the
original contract specified that the Children's Home Society was going to pay for the year, in
advance, however, it would now be paid quarterly for the first year, and monthly thereafter,
along with a contingency regarding the number of children at the facility. He stated they were no
longer paying in advance, therefore, the City should be charging them interest for the delayed
payments. He indicated this money was not going into the City's coffers, adding that any bill he
pays late, or on a monthly basis, he is charged interest on.
City Administrator Whiting stated he had created this understanding with the Children's Home
Society because they had expressed they would have a difficult time coming up with $30,000 in
advance, and they had discussed doing this for the last three or four months. He stated in regard
to whether or not interest should be charged on what might be interpreted to be a late payment, it
should be noted that with the original agreement, and in the preceding years of this agreement,
they would be paying one month in advance. He explained that on January 1, they would pay
$2,500, for the entire month of January.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 35
City Administrator Whiting indicated that the concern with regard to having $30,000 for the
entire year of 1999, was to make the point that the City wanted to be guaranteed this revenue.
He stated this was a negotiating point, and up until the last couple of weeks he had felt that was
be doable. He pointed out that when this appeared to be a problem for the facility, in that they
were already one quarter into the year at that point, he thought that three additional quarterly
payments would be acceptable. He stated he was not contemplating the interest that would be
lost on the advance payment, but rather, more in terms of what had been agreed to all along. He
advised that the last line of Section 2.5 of the Lease Agreement indicates that if for some reason
they are unable to continue with the agreement, prior to the end of this year, they would be
obligated for the entire amount of $30,000. He noted there was possibly a calculation for lost
interest in this agreement, however, it was not a serious concern at the time he broached that
matter with them.
Mayor Coughlin pointed out that essentially City Administrator Whiting was expressing the age
old phrase "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." He stated in other words, the Children's
Home Society is in the facility, they are paying, and if they are unable to make the full payment
in advance because of the difficulties they have had, this agreement was an acceptable
alternative. He indicated that if they are making a good faith effort to come up with the money,
and if quarterly payments allow them to remain in the facility, and keeps them financially viable,
this was an agreeable modification.
Council Member Stigney stated he would not quarrel with this, in terms of the first year, when
. they are attempting to incorporate their first business into their quarterly statements. He
explained however, the phrase "...after 1999, and forever, thereafter," when the City does not
incorporate any interest, and this is paid on a monthly basis, rather than on an annual basis, in
advance, made a significant difference. He stated he would like to stipulate that if they are not
paying in advance, and would be paying on a monthly basis, forever after, there be some type of
interest calculated into the payment arrangement.
Council Member Marty stated he agreed. He stated monthly payments would involve additional
accounting, and he believed that they could continue to pay quarterly, in advance.
Mayor Coughlin pointed out that this would probably not involve much additional accounting, in
that it would essentially be a matter of receiving a check, and entering it into the register.
City Administrator Whiting stated in his opinion, the monthly payment arrangement was similar
to paying your rent on a monthly basis, and he had never contemplated requiring them to pay a
year in advance. He stated he could not imagine that the City would find a group willing to do
that. He pointed out that they do not require this with the Community Education program in this
building. He stated he could understand the concern about not having the interest, however, that
was not an issue in the first agreement, and certainly not one he had contemplated in this
agreement. He stated he was not familiar with a policy requiring renters to pay an entire year at
a time, in advance.
Mayor Coughlin added that there is some benefit to receiving payments on a monthly basis, in
that this provides a guaranteed cash flow. He added that if this arrangement helps this
organization remain viable, he was all the more m favor of it.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 36
Council Member Stigney stated the fifth sentence on Page 2 of the Lease Agreement indicates
"...during the term hereof an amount calculated by multiplying (I) the total gross revenues..."
and the seventh sentence indicates "Demised Premises, Time (ii)..." He requested clarification
regarding the Roman Numerals.
Assistant to the City Administrator Schmidt noted the first Roman Numeral (I) should be lower
case. She explained that these numbers simply represent the two different points of the
calculations. She indicated the first point pertains to total gross revenues received by the tenant
for all children's monthly, weekly, daily and hourly tuition, and the second point represented 2.5
percent, provided.
City Administrator Whiting stated these points refer to the calculation used for paying the tuition
portion of the monthly rent, which, as agreed upon in the initial agreement, would be calculated
for the year 1999, and would be applied for the succeeding years. He advised that this was the
amount, over and above the base rent, that the Children's Home Society would pay the City each
month.
Council Member Marty noted the next sentence that indicates "...Percentage rent to be paid shall
be increased to at least three percent (3%) greater than the Percentage Rent payable in the
previous year." He inquired if this applied only to the percentage rent, and not the overall rent.
City Administrator Whiting stated this was correct. He explained that this is an inflationary
factor, which provides that the City does not lose ground to inflationary costs.
Council Member Marty inquired if the percentage rent was based upon the number of children at
the facility.
City Administrator Whiting stated this was correct.
Council Member Marty stated it appeared that the overall rent could be increased 3 percent to
cover inflation, and that this not only be based upon the number of children.
Assistant to the City Administrator Schmidt stated the percentage rent only pertains to the actual
tuition, and does not include the base rent of $30,000.
Council Member Marty inquired a 3 percent increase could be included each year in the base
rent.
Council Member Stigney stated this would be appropriate, in that from this point forward, the
rent would be fixed, regardless of any inflation factor.
City Administrator Whiting stated these were not the issues that led to the reconsideration of the
initial agreement with the Children's Home Society. He pointed out that much of that agreement
with Children's Home Society was simply transported into the current document, and the
concern about their ability to pay in excess of the $30,000, was essentially the only reason for
revisiting the agreement at all. He explained that the City has already agreed to this once,
therefore, he had never contemplated bringing it up with them again. He stated he could
certainly ask them, however, he would request some direction as to the response, if they do not
agree to this.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 37
City Administrator Whiting reiterated that the body of this document has already been agreed to,
however, the entire agreement had to be redrawn because according to legal opinion, the original
agreement did not allow for amendments. He the issue of the Children's Home Society's ability
to cash flow had come before the previous Council, and this matter was brought forward in light
of those specific concerns, and not for the purpose of reopening the entire agreement. He stated
this was simply not something he had anticipated, when carrying out that directive.
Council Member Marty stated that with the exception of a couple of questions he had at the
beginning of the discussion, this was his only concern.
City Administrator Whiting stated this was a five year agreement, and is something that staff
could certainly look at in the future. He indicated there were provisions in the instrument that
would allow the City to bring the agreement to an end if for example, they found a better paying
tenant, however, that would likely have to be addressed at the time it came forward. He noted he
knew of none at this time, and when the discussion regarding this matter commenced, staff
certainly contemplated that point.
Council Member Marty inquired if there would be any problem with continuing this matter, and
having staff research these points, and bring it back to the Council Work Session. He inquired if
they were under any time constraints.
City Administrator Whiting stated they were not, although they were hoping to have this
finalized by the first of the year. He explained that currently, the Children's Home Society is
simply paying the City $2,500 per month, and he was not aware of a legal situation, however, the
City would probably want an agreement with them fairly quickly. He stated he would follow the
Council's direction.
Council Member Marty stated he would like to insure that the City recoup the cost of inflation, if
nothing more.
Mayor Coughlin stated these were minor changes to an agreement that has already been
approved. He stated there is some question with regard to interest, however, this is rent, and he
would go so far as to say he would move approval of the resolution as it stands.
MOTION/SECOND: Coughlin/Thomason. To Approve Resolution 5324, a Resolution
Authorizing the City to Enter into a New Lease Agreement with the Children's Home Society.
Council Member Stigney stated he would like to amend the motion to incorporate a cost of living
interest adjustment factor as discussed.
Council Member Marty stated he would like to address this as well, because this would represent
15 percent in the fifth year, which is somewhat substantial, on $30,000 per year.
City Administrator Whiting advised that the initial discussions, and the reason they formulated
this type of an agreement in the first place, came from an understanding of what it would actually
cost to improve the building, in order to accommodate the Children's Home Society. He stated
there was really nothing else to base this on, except possibly the rent that is charged for other
similar facilities. He indicated that he had attempted to correlate that fact that the City desired to
Mounds View City Council March 22,1999
Regular Meeting Page 38
have a tenant of this sort, the cash flow from this tenant would help with the operations of the
building, and the relationship to the cost of the improvements for the property. He advised that
the improvements to this portion of the building cost between $800,000 and $900,000, and at that
time the City was attempting to obtain an agreement that would recover 100 percent of that cost.
City Administrator Whiting pointed out that realistically speaking, the Children's Home Society
could not see themselves in one location for 15 years or more, with one agreement, and the City
was attempting to get them to commit that entire time period. He stated the basis for these
figures was an attempt to recoup the money the City invested in the building, however, in reality,
it would act as a cash flow for the building. He stated if that was the understanding at that point,
the value of the building was incurred when it was constructed, and it does not have an inflation
value, except in terms of its market worthiness, and the money has not been expended. He
explained that this was the logic he utilized to negotiate this agreement, therefore the inflation
clause based upon tuition was related to their ability to raise tuition for their clients, whereas the
base rent, which costs had already been incurred by the City, was simply not examined.
Council Member Marty suggested changing the term of the contract from five years to two years,
and instead of making long commitment to this, they could evaluate the Children's Home
Society's financial position in two years, and readdress this at that time.
Council Member Thomason stated she would not be opposed to this.
Mayor Coughlin requested City Administrator Whiting's opinion.
City Administrator Whiting stated he believed this was somewhat self-defeating. He explained
that the City would like to have a guaranteed cash flow for as long as possible, and staff has been
attempting to secure the longest agreement possible, which was one of the objectives. He stated
the Children's Home Society may actually accept a shorter agreement, however, the City would
only know two years in advance, and less than that at any given point., if they were going to have
a tenant in the building. He stated the service the Children's Home Society provides is one
consideration, however, the $30,000 to $45,000 per year in rent should not be discounted either.
City Administrator Whiting stated the concern of attempting to recoup the City's money in some
way, shape or form, was behind many of these clauses, and not whether the Children's Home
Society was paying interest on money, when they were paying it. He reiterated that reasoning
was not employed in this effort.
City Administrator Whiting stated there was a judgement call to be made, however, if the
Council opens this matter up to the point that the Children's Home Society is constantly seeking
a better situation elsewhere, this could very easily occur. He added that he did not see the
Children's Home Society as a charity case. He stated they were doing a good job, and the
problems they have had in the City's facility have related to the timing of the construction, and
the unforeseeable need of the entire organization to re-group, and secure their funding
mechanisms. He pointed out that this was something staff could not have foreseen either.
Mayor Coughlin stated before the Council was a motion, which has been seconded, to approve
Resolution 5324, Children's Home Society Agreement, as presented.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 39
Council Member Stigney indicated there was also an amendment to the motion that has been
seconded.
Mayor Coughlin requested clarification regarding the amendment.
Council Member Stigney stated the amendment was to have the City Administrator examine a 3
percent inflation increase with the Children's Home Society to determine if there would be any
problem in this regard.
Mayor Coughlin advised that such an amendment would defeat the main motion, because the
Council could not approve a motion with an amendment that leaves something up in the air.
Council Member Stigney requested they leave the amendment to incorporate a cost of living
adjustment in the base rent.
Mayor Coughlin called for a vote on the amendment. He stated he was opposed to the addition
of an amendment at this point.
Ayes - 1 Nays - 3 (Coughlin, Thomason, Marty) Motion failed.
Mayor Coughlin stated before the Council was the motion approving the Children's Home
Society agreement. He asked if there was any further discussion.
There was no further discussion.
Ayes - 3 Nays - 1 (Stigney) Motion carried.
Council Member Stigney advised that per the hour on the clock, the Council would require a
motion to extend the meeting.
Mayor Coughlin stated the meeting was officially over, unless there is an act by the Council to
extend the meeting. He inquired if there was a motion to extend the meeting, according to house
rules, and the resolution the Council had passed on their first day, up to one-half hour.
MOTION/SECOND: Marty/Coughlin. To Extend the City Council Meeting Up to One-Half
Hour.
Ayes - 4 Nays - 0 Motion carried.
F. Consideration of Resolution 5313, Chief Ramacher's Severance Agreement
Mayor Coughlin stated Council Member Thomason had presented information at the Council
Work Session pertaining to this item, and the matter was discussed. He requested City
Administrator Whiting provide a brief overview.
City Administrator Whiting stated the request before the Council was essentially two-fold. He
indicated that employees are offered the opportunity to take a severance payment based upon the
number of sick leave hours that they have accumulated. He advised that in the two Union
contracts, a variation of this option is also offered. He explained that this allows the employees
Mounds View City Council March Z2, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 40
to take 65 percent of the total value of their accumulated sick leave, and apply it to ongoing
• health insurance premium payments, to be paid out either until the funds expire, or the retiree
reaches 65 years of age. He noted that this option has not been incorporated into any form of a
personnel policy.
City Administrator Whiting stated Chief Ramacher has expressed an interest in attempting to
reach an agreement with the City, which would allow his ongoing health insurance premiums to
be paid for from his accumulated sick leave hours. He noted that under no circumstances would
the other employees that have this option be allowed to change their mind after they have
exercised that option, and in the event they do chose to do something else, the funds cease to be
paid.
City Administrator Whiting stated the funds are maintained by the City, and paid on a monthly
basis. He indicated that currently, the premium for family health insurance is approximately
$400 per month. He stated the question before the Council is whether or not they would desire
to consider an agreement with the outgoing Chief of Police to allow this option, and if so, to
what extent.
City Administrator Whiting stated there have been a number of opinions expressed on all sides
of this issue. He indicated the Council met at Work Session for discussion of this matter, and
Council Member Thomason had proposed an alternative to the options provided by staff. He
requested Council Member Thomason provide an overview of her proposal for the Council.
• Council Member Thomason stated she had attempted to suggest a compromise since Chief
Ramacher does not fall under the policy which covers the Police Officers, and was not covered
under the Collective Bargaining Agreement. She indicated her proposal incorporates both of
those policies. She explained that she had taken the number of sick leave hours the Police Chief
had accrued as a Police Officer, and multiplied those by 65 percent, and took the 960 hours at 50
percent, which staff employees are allowed, and added these two amounts together. She
indicated these amounts totaled $45,514, which would be held in an interest bearing account,
paying out approximately $400 per month, over 114 payments. She advised that the interest
accrued on this amount would be approximately $10,100, which would reduce the principal, for
a final pay out of $35,404. She stated this formula was basically a collaboration of the two
policies, which would not otherwise apply to the Police Chief.
Mayor Coughlin inquired if Council Member Thomason would care to move approval of
Resolution 5313, as stated, and presented before the Council.
Council Member Thomason stated she would.
MOTION/SECOND: Thomason/Marty. To Approve Resolution No. 5313, a Resolution
Authorizing the Severance Package of Tim Ramacher, and to Take the Number of Sick Leave
Hours Chief Ramacher Had Accrued as a Police Officer, and Multiply Those by 65 Percent, and
to Take the 960 Hours at 50 Percent, Which Staff Employees are Allowed, and Add These Two
Amounts Together, to Total $45,514, To Be Held in an Interest-Bearing Account, Paying Out
Approximately $400 Per Month, Over 114 Payments.
Council Member Stigney stated City staff had provided four options, one of which in his view
applied to the Police Chief, in that it utilized the current policies of the City, and would treat
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 41
Chief Ramacher as any other non-Union, management employee of the City. He stated this
would be 50 percent of his accumulated sick leave, not to exceed 960 hours, or I20 days. He
stated this option applies to the Police Chief, and represents an amount of $15,676.
Council Member Stigney stated the next option staff provided was to combine the Union
provision and the non-Union provision, and give the Police Chief 65 percent of 960 hours. He
stated he does not believe this applies to the Police Chief, because he was not a member of the
union, except during his service as a Patrol Officer, and at that time, the 65 percent policy did not
apply. He indicated this policy never applied to the Police Chief, and still does not. He
explained that this option would represent an amount of $20,379.
Council Member Stigney indicated that because the Police Chief had accumulated 2,700 hours of
sick leave, staff negotiated with the Police Chief, to offer 1,800 hours payable, and that option
would represent a total of $38,212. He explained that the fourth option would be to treat the
Chief just like any other Patrol Officer, and allow him 65 percent of all his accumulated sick
leave hours, which would cost the City $57, 318.
Council Member Stigney stated in addition to these options, Council Member Thomason has
brought forward an alternative that would cost the City $45,514. He stated he had contacted
other communities to determine their procedure in similar situations, and it appears that City's
current policy of 960 hours is very generous. He explained that the other cities, including
Maplewood, N. St. Paul, Roseville, Shoreview, Falcon Heights only pay up to a maximum of 45
days, which is 50 percent of 90 days. He advised that the City's policy was very liberal, and he
. was opposed to setting a precedent, which others would follow. He stated he opposed the motion
in its present form.
Council Member Marty indicated this has been a tough decision. He stated his mind had been
made up, until the previous City Council meeting, at which time Assistant to the City
Administrator Schmidt had brought forward further information, and since that time, he has
attempted to search out an equitable solution to resolve this situation.
Council Member Marty stated that weekend, Council Member Thomason had contacted him
regarding her proposal. He indicated he had run for his office under the premise of being fair,
and in reviewing some of the options, found them to be simply numbers pulled out of the air,
however, Council Member Thomason's alternative would be fair. He explained that Chief
Ramacher was a Police Officer for 13 years, and since that time, has served as the Police Chief
and is considered staff. He stated this approach was justified in that it would allow 65 percent
for the years the Police Chief was an officer, and 50 percent of 960 accumulated sick leave
hours, for the period of time he was in management.
Council Member Marty pointed out that Option D, as presented by staff, would pay 65 percent of
2,700 accumulated sick leave hours, and this would total $57,318. He indicated he had spoken
with Chief Ramacher that day, and he had indicated he was willing to settle for less. He stated
he was unable to find any justification for some of the other options, and this alternative would
be the fair decision, although a bit of a hard pill to swallow. He indicated the Police Chief was
only the second person in the City of Mounds View to retire from the City. He pointed out that
if they were going to send a message to other employees, or prospective employees, that Mounds
View is a good place to live and work, they must be fair. He stated he supports Council Member
Thomason's formula.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 42
Bruce Brazenly, 5127 Long Lake Road, stated he appreciated the effort that Council Member
. Thomason had put forward in this regard, and believes this to be a reasonable compromise. He
stated he would prefer Chief Ramacher receive 65 percent of all his accumulated sick leave
hours. He explained that even during the time he was considered management and staff, he
continued to patrol the streets along with other officers, and therefore, should be treated as the
other officers are, and receive the higher compensation. He indicated however, he believed this
was a reasonable compromise, particularly in light of the fact that Council Member Marty has
spoken with Chief Ramacher, and he has indicated he is agreeable to this. He stated Council
Member Thomason's compromise was a very good one.
Council Member Stigney stated the Police Chief has never worked as a Union employee when
the Union contract provided 65 percent, and to apply this policy to the Police Chief retroactively
was not fair to the taxpayers who would have to pick up the cost. He stated in regard to sending
the wrong message to other cities, other cities he had mentioned are perhaps sending the wrong
message to their employees because the City of Mounds View is far ahead in the area of benefits.
He stated he was aware that he was in the minority, however, he disagreed with this proposal.
Mayor Coughlin stated in as much as he and Council Member Stigney disagree on this issue, he
would like to personally state that he appreciates the effort he has put forth in terms of calling the
other cities, and the like. He stated he did not wish to appear to be discounting these efforts in
any manner, particularly in light of the Retreat. He stated he had promised to give everyone on
the Council voice, and would add that Mr. Brazenly's comments were very similar to Council
Member Quick's leanings in this regard. He indicated that he had assured Council Member
Quick that he would mention the fact that his perspective was to allow 65 percent of the entire
2,700 hours of accrued sick leave time. He stated even though Council Member Quick did not
have a vote that evening, he had wanted him to have a voice as well.
Ayes - 3 Nays - 1 (Stigney) Motion carried.
Mayor Coughlin expressed his appreciation to the Council and staff for their diligent efforts in
this regard, adding that he was aware this was an agonizing decision for all.
F. Consideration of Resolutions 5325 and 5326 for Severance Package for Rick
Jarson
Assistant to the City Administrator Schmidt stated the City is in the process of potentially
contracting with the Blaine/Spring Lake Park Fire Department for their Building Official
services. She indicated that in the interest of moving forward with this matter, and in
consideration of the noticing requirements, once City employees are potentially laid off, staff had
desired to bring this severance package before the Council at this time.
Assistant to the City Administrator Schmidt stated before the Council were Resolutions 5325 and
5326, which establish a severance plan for the City of Mounds View Building Official, and also
abolishes the Building Official position within the City. She pointed out that this was the same
. severance package that was offered to the Parks and Recreation Department employees that were
displaced when the City contracted out with the YMCA.
Mounds View City Council March 22, 1999
Regular Meeting Page 43
Council Member Marty requested clarification regarding Item 13 of the severance agreement,
"Veterans' Preference." .
Assistant to the City Administrator Schmidt explained that Veterans are afforded different notice
requirements than non-veterans, and because the Building Official is a Veteran, the City was
required to provide him separate notice.
Council Member noted a blank space in this clause, and requested clarification regarding this.
Assistant to the City Administrator Schmidt stated, although she was aware that the Building
Official was a Veteran, she was uncertain which branch of the military he had served under, and
therefore, neglected to fill in this black space.
Mayor Coughlin stated he would move approval of both resolutions, contingent upon the
inclusion of the branch of the military the Building Official had served under.
MOTION/SECOND: Coughlin/Marty. To Approve Resolution 5325, Service Plan/Program for
City of Mounds View Building Official Displaced by the Outsourcing of the City Building
Inspection Services, and Resolution 5326, Recognition of the Abolition of the Position of
Building Official within the City of Mounds View Due to the Outsourcing of Building Inspection
Services for Budgetary Reasons.
Ayes - 4 Nays - 0 Motion carried.
City Administrator Whiting advised that the discussion pertaining to Long Distance Telephone
Calls had been delayed to follow Council Business.
Mayor Coughlin inquired if there was anything of great import that could not be dealt with
privately between Council Member Stigney and Council Member Marty. He advised that this
would be with the awareness that the Council would make this information known to people who
are concerned, and suggested Council Members Stigney and Marty take it upon themselves to
communicate this directly with Mr. Jahnke.
Council Member Stigney stated the matter has not come to conclusion because the information is
still not available. He suggested the City adopt a policy that simply indicates "No Iong distance
telephone calls."
Mayor Coughlin stated a new telephone system would be coming into the City that would
probably allow for tracking of specific telephone calls and the individuals making the calls. He
stated much of the problem would be nipped in the bud, simply because they would have the
ability to track the telephone calls.
Council Member Marty requested Mayor Coughlin explain how tracking would be
accomplished.
Mayor Coughlin explained that when he was in college, and he is assuming the technology has
changed somewhat since that time, everyone was issued a particular entrance code into the long
distance system. He stated a computer logged the entries, and provided a printout of the
telephone calls made by that individual, and that was their phone bill. He stated he saw this as a
Mounds View City Council March 22,1999
Regular Meeting Page 44
means to further track the telephone calls, and to add the accountability that Council Member
Stigney is requesting.
Mayor Coughlin suggested that in the interim, the Council might direct staff to provide the
directive that barring an emergency situation, the telephones not be utilized for personal long
distance calls. He pointed out that when the new phone system is installed, they could address
this matter electronically.
Council Member Stigney stated this was acceptable. He indicated out that there was really no
reason to charge any telephone calls to the City, and require additional bookkeeping, but rather
charge these telephone calls to a third party number. He noted that that many questions
remained with regard to this matter. He stated there are many calls listed on the telephone bill,
from many different States, and no one has accounted for these. He stated there is a problem,
and whether or not it is significant, it is a policy issue. He stated that if the Council would like to
handle this as Mayor Coughlin suggested, on an interim basis, that would be acceptable,
however, he would like to revisit the matter when the new telephone system is installed.
Mayor Coughlin stated he would agree to this.
Council Member Stigney pointed out that since he has brought this matter forward, the long
distance telephone calls have decreased approximately one third from the previous billings. He
stated if this was the result of this discussion, they were headed in the right direction.
City Administrator Whiting stated he certainly respect the right of the Council and the residents
to hold the Crty accountable for the use of these services, however, he could not agree with the
categorization that this was somehow irresponsible and unaccountable behavior. He stated they
could do a better job, and he would not argue with this, however, this was not the same problem
that occurred within the State Legislature a few years prior. He advised that the entire telephone
bill was $68.82.
City Administrator Whiting stated that in talking with Council Member Stigney for
approximately an hour, with some of the discussion pertaining to this matter, he gained a better
appreciation for his point of view. He indicated that the new telephone system would certainly
help, however, he was not convinced that the decrease in telephone calls was related to the fact
that these questions have come forward.
Mayor Coughlin stated he learned in statistics class that correlation does not necessarily mean
causation.
City Administrator Whiting stated this was an issue that staff has discussed from time to time,
and have changed their practice, as the situation warrants. He pointed out however, if the word
needs to go out once again to employees to minimize, if not eliminate all long distance telephone
calls, the means are available to accomplish this.
Mayor Coughlin suggested that if Council Member Stigney has further questions regarding this
• matter, in light of the discussions held at the Retreat, he allow City Administrator Whiting to
deal with these directly. He indicated the item would be revisited, per his request, after the new
telephone system is installed, if for no reason than to review whether or not the policy needs to
be amended based upon the new technology.
Mounds View City Council March 22,1999
Regular Meeting Page 45
Council Member Stigney stated he would be agreeable to this. He indicated he would like to
comment to the City Administrator that there are many calls on the telephone bill, to many states,
that no one remembers making, and in his opinion, this is not accountability. He added that
hopefully this would be resolved in the near future.
Mayor Coughlin stated he certainly did not want to leave the impression that the City
Administrator and his staff are conducting themselves in an improper fashion. He pointed out
that simply because particular telephone calls to a particular number have not been completely
accounted for, this does mean that someone is dialing 1-900 numbers to obtain their horoscope.
He stated unless it is proven otherwise, he sees this as a matter of "innocent until proven guilty,"
with the understanding that Council Member Stigney has concerns, which he had voiced.
10. Next Council Work Session:
Next Council Meeting:
Monday, Apri15,1999 - 6:00 P.M.
Monday, April 12, 1999 - 7:00 P.M.
11. ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Coughlin adjourned the meeting at 10:25 p.m.
Transcribed and recorded by:
Trish Pearson
Timesaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
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