HomeMy WebLinkAboutCOMMISSION_MINUTES_1987-08-27 + ♦ MINUTES OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE
PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION
CITY OF MOUNDS VIEW
411 COUNTY OF RAMSEY
STATE OF MINNESOTA
August 27, 1987
Mounds View City Hall
Council Chambers
6:30 p.m.
CALL TO ORDER The meeting was called to order by Chairperson Wayne
Burmeister at 6:39 p.m.
ROLL CALL Commissioners present: Commissioner Anderson,
Daniels, Silvis, Long, Rowley and Chairperson
Burmeister.
Commissioners absent: Commissioner Starr.
Councilmembers present: Mayor Linke and
Councilmember Quick.
Staff present: Director Saarion and Administrative
Assistant Linke.
Visitors present:
• Duane McCarty - 8060 Long Lake Rd.
Bob Carpenter - 2650 Lake Court Dr.
Michael Delmore - 7413 Parkview Dr.
Mary Mitchell - 7429 Parkview Dr. s
Laurie and Ed Trettel - 7401 Parkview Dr.
David and Sue Rademacher - 7421 Parkview
James Smith - 7427 Parkview Terrace
Ben Durand - 7358 Parkview Terrace
APPROVAL OF MINUTES A motion was made by Commisioner Silvis,
seconded by Commissioner Long to approve
the July 16, 1987 minutes as written.
Motion passed unanimously 6 ayes, 0 nayes.
AGENDA ADDITIONS None
CHAIRPERSON'S REPORT Chairperson Burmeister stated that he visited the
Silver View Park site after the State tournament and
noticed that the grounds were left in good shape. He
added that a large group of people was playing
volleyball by the woodchip pile and thought it would
be a good idea to add a sandlot volleyball court in
the near future.
COUNCILMEMBER'S REPORT No Report
0
C • ..•
Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes
August 27, 1987
Page two
•
SILVER VIEW PATHWAY Director Saarion consulted Clerk-Administrator
Pauley and City Attorney Meyers regarding the
construction of a the woodchip path behind the homes
on the south side of the Silver View Park pond
after receiving requests from residents for a
complete trail around the pond. Written documentation
and original maps show that a path was to continue
around the entire pond.
Director Saarion continued to explain that the idea
of a bridge was proposed when plans for a bond
referendum were established. The referendum failed
and the plans were financially unattainable.
There is greater liability to the City because the
path does not loop around the pond where people hike
regardless whether there is a path or not, but the
liability is probably greater on the unimproved path.
Commissioner Daniels asked staff how much of the
property behind the houses is City property. Staff
responded that it extends about 30 feet according to
last year's surveying. She added that the path would
be developed close to the pond.
Bob Carpenteur, President of the Silver Lake Woods •
Homeowners Association asked if the path was
supposed to go all around the pond. He felt it can
be done although it will be more difficult behind
Silver View Estates. He added that he has not seen
any new trail being put in, only chips being laid
over old chips.
Mr. Carpenteur noted that the pond was quite green
and had an odor. He asked if there were plans to
treat it. Director Saarion stated that plans have
not been made for treatment of the pond. Chairperson
Burmeister stated the Commission did not have plans
to do so.
Duane McCarty stated that he had received calls from
residents asking his assistance in the matter
because he was on the City Council at the time
Silver View was planned. He stated that the
original comprehensive plan developed by Saunders-
Thalden should not be s,craped because the referendum
did not pass.
Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes
August 27, 1987
Page three
•
Mr. McCartyurged the Commission not to construct a g
pathway in back of homes stating that it would not be
compatible with the environment. He used the
analogy of building a "Jack Hammer Factory" next to
R-1 zoning.
Mr. McCarty asked the Commission to not discard the
plan because it is no longer viable. He agreed that
the liability question was understandable and that
perhaps a path would help in litagation. He asked
if it made sense to put potentially heavy use in R-1
zoning.
Chairperson Burmeister stated that the plans for
Silver View had called for a larger pond. Because
it was not feasible, the pond was made smaller
leaving a larger area of City property on the south
side of the pond, allowing for more room for a path
to be constructed.
Duane McCarty asked if there was enough "more room".
Chairperson Burmeister noted that originally the
Commission had planned on building a wildflower area
there so they had originally planned on a trail
along that area. He added that he agreed with Mr.
• McCarty in that he did not want to see long range
plans scraped.
Speaking on behalf of the homeowners on the south
side of the pond, David Rademacher addressed the
Commission on how they felt they would be impacted
should a trail be constructed behind their homes.
He noted that three families were on vacation and he
was given authorization to speak for the entire
group. He thanked the Commission for acknowledging
their petition of August 4 which outlines their
concerns. Mr. Rademacher went on to outline their
concerns:
1. The homeowners were made aware of the five year
capital improvement plan when they bought their
homes. The plan they saw did not include a path
but did include a bridge.
2. The information was provided by the seller and
backed up with maps provided to them by the
City. The buyers paid a premium price for the
lots.
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Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes
August 27, 1987
Page four
3. A bridge was specifically planned to route •
traffic through the area.
4. The residents feel that much study went into the
comprehensive plan and that at least as much
study should go into changing it.
5. He urged the Commission to "hold out" for the
bridge.
6. In the plan it said something about defeasance
and other funds. Why wasn't the bridge put in
already?
7. Mr. Rademacher talked to the Ramsey County Tax
Assessor who said there is a diminished value if
property is exposed to greater risk of burglery,
vandalism, etc.
8. He stated that they had organized a clean-up and
care enough to pick up the park. They provide a
certain amount of surveillance for the park and
do call police when necessary. The residents
have done their best to make their property
attractive for people looking across the pond
from the park. The residents feel they are a •
benefit to the park.
9. They feel that the path will cause problems that
were not implied in the original purchase
agreement.
10. They are concerned that the drainage would be
impeded. There are problems with holes,
washouts, and destruction of trees. If a
path is constructed, it will shift from the
north side to the south side with increased
walkers, joggers, bikers, snowmobilers and
skiers.
11. There is no access or egress so the yards will
be used. How will that be solved?
12. Is there a possibility of the homeowners being
co-insured with the City for liability of
persons being injured on the path or going to or
from the path? Mr. Rademacher stated that an
elderly person tripped in a hole recently on the
trail.
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Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes
August 27, 1987
Page five
13. Water tends to dam up causing pot holes. He
•
feels that water comes from the ballfields and
wipes out the trail and causes holes that are
not always seen.
14. Security of area will be changed if path is
installed. He consulted a New Brighton police
lieutenant who stated that a home next to a path
or park has an increased change of burglery and
vandalism.
15. Concerning drainage problems, Mr. Rademacher
stated that the point of the west culvert there
is standing water. He is concerned that if
chips are put in it will cause a dam as water
comes off park and street. It flows between
Smith's and Mitchell's property. When damming
occurs, it finds the weakest spots and causes
unnatural drainage. Development of houses on
the land has altered the normal pattern of
seepage. The Delmores had to have a special cut
in bank to aid drainage. If normal drainage is
stopped it will go under his house.
Mr. Rademacher stated that he had contacted a
• State hydrologist. He stated that the land was
basically muck underneath. He added that
muskrats are digging in and causing excelerated
erosion. The damming effect does not go away
and causes water back up.
16. The residents are concerned with the fragile
environment and want to protect the wetlands
and drainage into the pond.
Mr. Rademacher concluded by stating that the
residents were interested in the progressive
development of City resources. They do not care if
people walk behind their homes , they just are
concerned with larger numbers of people, bikes, etc.
Residents would like to work with the City in
resolving this issue. He reiterated that the
homeowners living on the south side of the pond did
not want a path behind their homes.
•
Parks and Recreation Commission •
Minutes
August 27, 1987
Page six
Mayor Jerry Linke presented background information on •
the planning and development of Silver View Park and
Silver Lake Woods. He stated that the land the homes
are presently built on was once owned by the City.
When the LAWCON grant became available, a swap of
land was made. It was planned that the land would
remain as natural as possible. Unfortunately, Mary
Anderson Construction came in and leveled hills and
trees causing the natural terrain and drainage to be
destroyed.
At the same time, a survey of residents was done
asking them what they wanted in a community park.
Nature areas and a trail system was a very high
priority. Initially, the pond was to be much larger,
with a swimming area included. Due to a large
floating bog, it was determined to make the pond
smaller thus leaving a greater area of City owned
property on the south side of the pond where a path
could be located.
When the referendum was proposed, the bridge,
actually an afterthought, was planned. After the
referendum failed, it was not a high priority, as
roads needed to be built and other projects
completed. These projects were not charged back to
residents in the form of higher taxes. •
Mayor Linke addressed the questions about access and
egress to and from the south side of the pond. He
stated that he had asked the developer to put more
access points in but the developer refused. He
added that many of our other parks do have these
bituminous, fenced walkways between streets and park
areas.
Mayor Linke told residents that the City Council must
change their plans frequently due to funding changes.
And, although he and Councilmember Quick are
advocates for parks it is not always possible to fund
them. Most of the monies for parks now come from the
park dedication fund, but the City is 85 - 90 percent
developed. In addition, developers say they cannot
afford to pay the park dedication fees. One
developer who's fees amount to $250,000 has offered
only $50,000. The Council has to weigh the
disadvantages and advantages of accepting his offer
or not accepting and the possibility of him backing
out.
•
Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes
August 27, 1987
Page seven
Duane McCarty once again asked the Commission to
• consider the feasiblity of a bridge and give the
residents more time to get involved in the
process.
Resident Jim Smith stated that wood chips are a poor
material to use on trails. He asked that the
property on the south side be deeded to the
homeowners. Mayor Linke stated that this would not
be done and that the area on the south side of the
pond was intended for use by all the residents of
Mounds View. Councilmember Quick said that
bituminous trail would be possible if the residents
of Silver View Park area would be willing to pay for
it through a special taxing district.
Mayor Linke added that the parks are intended for use
by all the residents of Mounds View not just those
people living around them. He feels we have to
complete the trail around the pond and that it would
not impede the natural drainage. The resident who
encroached on park property and took down trees and
brush and leveled land did more to impede drainage
then the trail would.
Resident Sue Rademacher asked if the City Attorney
• was consulted. Staff stated that Attorney Meyers was
consulted and indicated that the City's liability
would be greater on unimproved land than on a
finished trail.
Ms. Rademacher asked if the City had looked into the
possibility of the Corps of Engineers working on a
bridge. Mayor Linke responded that they had been
contacted and were not interested in taking on the
project.
Mr. Carpenteur commented on the large population of
bank rats or muskrats around the pond. Chairperson
Burmeister said that at this time the trapping costs
are too high. Director Saarion added that in October
the trapping season will begin and then the animals
will be trapped for pelts for free.
Councilmember Quick asked Mr. Rademacher if he had
ever reported the pot holes to the Park and
Recreation Department which he had mentioned earlier.
He stated that last year he had and that they were
filled in.
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Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes
August 27, 1987
Page eight
Mr. Rademacher stated that he would like to see
another referendum held and also give the residents •
some time to look into funding for the bridge.
Ms. Rademacher asked about the possibility of
plantings along the proposed pathway. Director
Saarion stated that the plantings were always planned
and Forester Wriskey had requested homeowners to
contact him regarding their requests.
Councilmember Quick stated that he understood their
security concerns. From personal experience, he
found that a fence was the only true way of making
his property secure.
Ms. Rademacher asked the Commission if they wanted
fences. Chairperson Burmeister responded no.
Bob Carpenteur stated that he would not like to look
across the lake at fences.
Commissioner Silvis stated that according to the
Commissions fencing policy, they would avoid using
fences in a City park if at all possible.
Commissioner Daniels asked staff what has been
accomplished on the trail since the Commission moved •
to complete the trail. Staff stated that the path has
been completed to the cement sidewalk easement
Commissioner Daniels asked how soon the area behind
Scotland Court could be started. Staff said it could
begin any time. Commissioner Daniels agreed with
residents that a bridge would be a good idea.
Director Saarion had received several complaints from
residents regarding walking behind the homes on the
south side. They would like to see the path
completed around the pond.
Commissioner Daniels stated that he feels there
should be more inlets to the south side of the pond
and that more time should be taken to work out the
finer details of the trail.
•
• Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes
August 27, 1987
Page nine
• Resident Mary Mitchell stated her concerns
with the rain flowing over the area. She
said that the seed has been washed out of
her yard and thinks the same would happen to
the wood chips.
Commissioner Daniels feels that a small
culvert running under the path would solve
that problem.
Mr. Smith asked if park dedication funds
could be designated for a bridge at Silver
View and that an agreement be made with
residents to remove the wood chip path if
installed, after a bridge is installed.
Commissioner Daniels stated that a wood chip
path would not necessarily be permanent.
In response to Mr. Smith's request, Commissioner
Silvis stated that the Park and Recreation Commission
is only an advisory board and could only make
recommendations on how monies are spent.
Councilmember Quick informed Mr. Smith of the
• priority list set up in the five year capital
improvement plan and that the bridge was not planned
for quite a while yet.
Commissioner Daniels suggested that the City develop
land behind Scotland Green first and then get
together with residents regarding the rest of the
trail.
Chairperson Burmeister suggested that a committee be
set up with residents. Mr. Carpenteur agreed and
said that their homeowners association would be
meeting in September and he would bring up the idea
to them and ask for interested persons to come to the
next Commission meeting.
Commissioner Daniels told the residents that although
he was not an elected official, he felt he was a
representative of the whole city and has to look at
the issue from that perspective.
Councilmember Quick explained the Groveland Park
•
Foundation and said that it had raised $25,000 for
the Groveland Park. He suggested that the Silver View
Park residents consider initiating a similar non-
profit group.
411
Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes
August 27, 1987
Page ten
Commissioner Silvis stated that monies had been set •
aside for interested resident groups. Councilmember
Quick added that the City Council has also provided
matching funds for parkaprojects when monies were
raised by community groups.
Chairperson Burmeister moved to meet with the
residents of the Silver View Park area and homeowners
association to work out the Silver View Park trail
situation at the regularly scheduled Parks and
Recreation Commission meeting on September 24, 1987.
The motion was seconded by Commissioner Daniels. The
motion passed unanimously 6 ayes, 0 nayes.
At this time, Chairperson Burmeister officially
acknowledged receipt of the petition from the
residents of the Silver View Park pond area and said
that he can appreciate their concerns.
Councilmember Quick told residents that such
amenities as tennis courts, volleyball courts, and
lighting for the softball fields were planned in the
future for Silver View and how do they feel about
that?
Mr. Carpenteur stated that he would not like to have
lights at Silver View. Ed Trettel felt that lighting •
at Silver View would interfere with the wildlife.
Laurie Trettel expressed concerns that a larger
amount of cans, debris, etc. would be left in the
park.
Councilmember Quick added that using the park
properly, as it was planned should improve conditions
at the park.
David Rademacher stated that he felt the lights would
not be natural and that if they were installed they
should not be on after 10:00 p.m. and would be
uneconomical.
Councilmember Quick informed residents that adult
softball was actually the biggest fund generator for
the Recreation Department. He also asked the
residents to consider organizing a Park Foundation by
filing for a non-profit organization charter at a
cost of $60.00. He added that the Groveland Park
Foundation had purchased a sandlot volleyball court ,
landscaping of warming house, a play structure and
tennis court through funds raised by that
organization.
•
Parks and Recreation Commission
Minutes
August 27, 1987
Page eleven
• RESCIND 5 YEAR CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT PLANS Director Saarion requested the Commission to rescind
the past two 5 year capital improvement plans
explaining that the 1981 plan was written with a
referendum in mind and having failed, it is no longer
feasible. The 1986 plan was also financially
unreasonable, although the goals and priorities were
still viable. She also requested that a statement
allowing the Commission to be more flexible within
the plan be comprised because often opportunities
come up, such as the Random Park Building, that are
too good to pass up and may not be on a 5 year
capital improvement plan.
Chairperson Burmeister felt that he would also like
to see a more realistic 5 year plan. Commissioner
Daniels asked that the goals and priorities not be
discarded entirely. He also suggested that
projections be made and more than one set of plans be
developed depending on different funding
opportunities.
Director Saarion stressed that the City wants a
progressive and forward moving park development, even
if it's only adding a new play structure or picnic
• tables and grills to a park a year. She also
suggested spreading large projects such as the paving
of the Silver View parking lot over three years.
A motion was made and amended by Chairperson
Burmeister and seconded and amendment approved by
Commissioner Long to rescind the two prior five year
capital improvements plans with a new five year
capital improvement plan implemented keeping in mind
the goals and priorities of the 1986 plan, with a
more realistic view of the future funding. This plan
will be reviewed yearly at the regular June Parks and
Recreation Commission meeting to be modified as
circumstances dictate. The motion passed unanimously
6 ayes, 0 nayes.
REVIEW OF SPECIAL
A. "MAME" - Staff reported that the Mounds
View Community Theater Production of "MAME"
had received many compliments. The receipts
from ticket sales had totalled around $9,599.00.
The Commission will be apprised of the outcome
at the next meeting.
•
Parks and Recreation Commission _
•
Minutes
August 27, 1987
Page twelve
B. Festival in the Park - This event was similar to •
years past with the addition of a gas powered model
airplane club demonstration and the Parks and
Recreation Department providing the games thus
receiving a greater profit on the children's
games.
C. Women's Class C State Tournament was a success
with fields in excellent condition and high
caliber games running smoothly.
PARK PROJECTS Staff updated Commissioners on the progress at Random
Park stating that blockwork had begun and that the
building would be dropped on Monday, August 31 with
construction of the ramp and stairs to follow. A
culvert would be installed, the parking lot graded
and class 5 applied. The deadline for completion is
September 14.
The City is working with an electrician on the
installation of the lights at the Groveland Park
tennis court. The contractor has been asked to auger
the holes and lift the poles as the City does not
have the equipment to accomplish this.
FALL PROGRAM REVIEW Director Saarion distributed the September/October •
Newsletter to the Commissioners and said they were
mailed to residents on Wednesday afternoon.
Chairperson Burmeister asked if a donation was
received from Honeywell Inc. this year. Councilmember
Quick stated that it had gone to an Indian group.
Staff stated that she had applied for it but had not
heard about the outdome.
Councilmember Quick asked staff to study water
problems at Silver View Park and make
suggestions.
Director Saarion showed the Commission the proposed
signs for the parks and asked for their input. It
was agreed that the curfew would be 10:00 p.m. in all
parks. It was suggested that bikes be prohibited
from all hard court surfaces.
Councilmember Quick suggested that staff send a
recommendation to the Council to prohibit the use of
glass containers in parks as it is not currently in
any ordinance.
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Park and Recreation Commission
Minutes
August 27, 1987
Page thirteen
• Commissioner Silvis suggested that it was time to
have another joint meeting with the Spring Lake Park
Commission to go over the Lakeside Beach operations.
Staff suggested that both commissions request
additional monies again this year for next year's
Lakeside budget.
ADJOURNMENT A motion was made by Commissioner Long, seconded by
Commissioner Silvis to adjourn the meeting at 9: 15
p.m. Motion passed unanimously 6 ayes, 0 nayes.
Respectfully submitted,
Mary Kaarion, Director
Parks, Recreation and Forestry
MS/sl
•