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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 1991/11/25• CITY OF MOUNDS VIEW CITY COUNCIL NOVEMBER 25, 1991 7:00 P.M. AGENDA The City Council is provided background information for agenda items in advance by staff and appointed commissions, committees and boards. Decisions are based on this information, as well as City policy and practices, input from constituents and a Councilmember's personal judgement. If you have comments, questions or information regarding an item on the agenda, please step forward to be recognized by the Mayor during the "Residents Requests and Comments From the Floor" item on the • agenda. Please state your name and address for the record. A.Z1 comments are appreciated. A copy of all printed materials relating to the agenda item is available for public inspection at the Recording Secretary's Table. I. CALL TO ORDER 2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE 3. ROLL CALL - Quick, Blanchard, Rickaby, Wuori, °'Linke 4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: October 14, 1991 Amended Regular Meeting COUNCIL ACTION: A T D November 12, 1991 ::Regular-Meeting COUNCIL ACTION: A T D c: AGENDA PAGE TWO NOVEMBER 25, 1991 APPROVAL OF MINUTES: (continued) November 18, 1991 Special Council Meeting COUNCIL ACTION: A T D 5. SPECIAL ORDER OF BUSINESS: None 6. RESIDENTS REOUESTS AND COMMENTS FROM THE FLOOR Citizens' comments are encouraged to allow individual citizens to address the Council, as a whole, on a matter of interest or concern to the citizens. The preservation of the Citizens' Comments item on the agenda is important in order to encourage and maintain this information flow. To preserve and protect this valuable communications Zink, a speaker is limited to three (3) minutes. CITIZENS: BEFORE SPEARING PLEASE GIVE YOUR FULL NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE MINUTES ------------------------------------------------------------- 7. PUBLIC HEARINGS: None 8. CONSENT AGENDA: 1. Adopt Resolution No. 4141 Approving Just and Correct Claims Against City Funds 2. Licenses for Approval General - Expires 6/30/92 G.I.P. Construction - New Perfection Preferred Construction - New Pleasant Places - Renewal Heating and Air Conditionincx - Expires 6/30/92 Cool Air Mechanical, Inc. - New Sewer and Water - Expires 6/30/92_ . Mounds View Plumbing - New Rosetown Mechanical - New AGENDA PAGE THREE NOVEMBER 25, 1991 Garbage Haulers/Recyclers - Expires 6/30/92 Walters Rubbish, Inc. - New COUNCIL ACTION:A T D 9. COUNCIL BUSINESS:. 1. Second Reading and Adoption of Ordinance No.-497 Implementing a Street Light Utility (Staff Report No. 91-116) COUNCIL ACTION A T D 2. Consideration of Resolution No. 4142 Supporting the Planning Process of Ramsey County and Its Cities and Ensure the Economic Health of the County and All of Its Cities (Staff Report No. 91-117) COUNCIL ACTION A T D 10. REPORTS: 1. Report of Councilmembers: Quick, Blanchard, Rickaby, Wuori 2. Report of Mayor Linke 3. Report of Administrator 4. Report of Staff 5. Report of Attorney 11. ADJOURNMENT• NE%T COUNCIL WORK SESSION: DECEMBER 2, 1991 NEST COUNCIL MEETING: DECEMBER 9 1 991 • PROCEEDINGS OF THE CITY COUNCIL CTI'Y OF MOUNDS VIEW RAMSEY COUNTY, MINNESOTA Regular Meeting November 25, 1991 Mounds View City Hall 2401 Hwy. 10, Mounds View, MN 55112 CALL TO ORDER The Mounds View City Council was called to order by Mayor Linke at 7:00 p.m. on Monday, November 25, 1991. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ~e Pledge of Allegiance was said. ROLL CALL MEMBERS PRESENT: Councilmembers Wuori, Quick, Blanchard, Rickaby and Mayor Linke. MEMBERS ABSENT: None ALSO PRESENT: Samantha Orduno, City Administrator, and Mark Barney, City Attorney APPROVAL OF MINUTES:. MOTION/SECOND: Rickaby/Quick to approve October 14, 1991 minutes as amended. 5 ayes 0 nays Motion Carried MOTION/SECOND: Wuori/Quick to approve November 12, 1991 minutes. 5 ayes 0 nays Motion Carried MOTION~SECOND: Quick/Blanchard to approve November 18, 1991 minutes as presented. 5 ayes 0 nays Motion Carried ~nds View City Council gular Meeting SPECIAL ORDER OF BUSINESS: None RESIDENTS REQUESTS AND COMMENTS FROM THE FLOOR: There were no residents requests or comments. PUBLIC HEARINGS: None CONSENT AGENDA: Page Two November 25, 1991 Samantha Orduno, City Administrator, read the Consent Agenda. MOTION/SECOND: Quick/Blanchard to adopt the Consent Agenda as presented. 5 ayes 0 nays Motion Carried ~JIVCIL BUSINESS: 1. Ordinance No. 497 Implementing a Street Light Utility - Samantha Orduno, City Administrator, stated that at the last Council meeting,the street light utility, as an alternative revenue source, was discussed. Proposed is the creation of a street light utility which would have monthly payments on households for the purpose of lighting and maintaining street lights. The problems caused by budget cuts and reduction in state aid are common among all cities. Cities are looking for alternative revenue programs to offset declining revenues and increase expenditures which have been put on cities by state. mandates. Mayor Linke asked Orduno to deliver a shorter version of the presentation made at the public hearing on November 12, 1991. Orduno made the street light presentation and the Council then asked the public for comments. William Werner, 2765 Sherwood Road, commented that the first tiune he had heard anything regarding expenses with regard to this utility was during the proposal at the last meeting. Orduno explained that expenses would involve the costs of lighting and maintaining existing street lights, installing new lights and replacing damaged lights. An inflation factor of 5~ for • electricity rate increases is included in the costs as well as a 5~ Administrative Fee. A 5~ contingency fee is also included to provide funds to address unforseen maintenance problems. ~nds View City Council gular Meeting Page Three November 25, 1991 William Werner, Sr., asked if there would be an increase in this utility over the years? Samantha Orduno, City Administrator, responded that this program is based on a 3 year average. William Werner, Sr., 2765 Sherwood Road, asked if the City would be expanding the service portion of administration. Will the City be adding employees to build up the beaurocracy of the organization in order to operate the utility? Orduno stated there will be staff time costs for loading a data base. This program will add one more function in the billing process. The billing cost will be shared with the water and sewer utility. Only 5$ would be added as administrative overhead. William Werner, Sr. asked if staff would expand incrementally? Mr. Werner also asked if there is a plan to eventually increase staff and will staff be given a higher salary because they will be working more? . Orduno responded that costs would be materials as well as staff time. Orduno stated that a sunset clause is a Council decision. At this time the proposal is for three years. Staff salaries would not exclusively be used for this. Bill Frits, 8072 Long Lake Road, asked if the .Council was proposing that this utility would disappear in three years. Mr. Frits also asked if there would be a sunset feature written into this utility. Bill Frits, 8072 Long Lake Road, stated the Council could add the sunset clause at this time. Mayor Linke stated that since the public hearing there had been lobbying for a sunset clause to be added to the ordinance. Mayor Linke also stated that he was aware that a motion would be put forth this evening to put a sunset clause on this utility. Bill Frits stated that he does not want a street light on his corner. There is one there presently. How does one go about getting rid of it? If he would get a signed petition from the other four people on the corner would the Council consider removing it? Orduno stated that a petition must be signed by 50~ of the people who would be affected by the installation of the street light. • ~unds View City Council gular Meeting Page Four November 25, 1991 Mayor Linke said approximately 20 homes are affected by a street light. Generally, only one or two homeowners ever say no. Mayor Linke suggested to Mr. Frits that he could circulate a reverse petition. Bill Frits stated that he had said this before and he will continue saying it until doomsday that someplace, somewhere this levying of taxes against the people has got to stop. If this Council can't do it, someplace there is a Council who will do it. Mr. Frits stated that he received a notice from the county and that the village portion of his taxes increased by 35$. Mr. Frits stated he can't afford it and neither can some of those who sit on the Council, if they were smart enough to realize it. Mr. Frits further stated. that this Council has no intestinal fortitude or what he calls "guts" where cuts have to be made. Mr. Frits stated that the City should charge no more and if the present staff has time to their work and also something else, then they are wasting time and can be done away with. Orduno encouraged all of the audience to come to the December 9 budget hearings so that the budget process can be explained to them. . Orduno noted that Mounds View can levy nor more in 92 and than was levied in 1991 with the exception of the lost local government aid. Take for example, gas price increase. The fuel needed for the patrol vehicle that a resident calls to come to their aid will be more expensive in 1992, however, the City cannot levy more money to cover such an increase. During the last several months, the Council has made significant reductions to the budget. Also, the fire bond referendum, which the public voted for, added $130,000 to the debt service. The majority of the 36~ increase is beyond the City's control. The audience was again encouraged to attend the budget hearing on December 9, 1991 to give the Council a chance to answer any questions regarding the budget process or the budget. Mayor Linke stated that the amount the Council is talking about raising is $83,400 that was lost in local government aid. Linke further stated that with that increase the City is still 1.5$ below revenues that the City had in 1991. This means there is 1.5~ less to work with this year. Bill Frits, 8072 Long Lake Road stated that according to his property tax increase the City has 36~ more to work with. Mr. Frits asked Council wha's twisting figures here? Mayor Linke stated it was hard for him to explain because he didn't understand fully why taxes went up and home values went down. He . hasn't sat back and looked at the numbers and the formula to see how the increase occurred. ~nds View City Council gular Meeting Page Five November 25, 1991 Orduno stated the dollar amount of the 1992 City tax increase on an average home is $52.00 per year. Included in that amount is $25.00 per year for the fire bond, $12.00 per year for the reduction in tax revenues and disparity aid and $17.00 per year for the loss of the $83,400 in local government aid in 1991. The City had a low levey in 1991 and was penalized in 1992 by receiving less disparity aid. Samantha Orduno, City. Administrator, once again encouraged all residents to attend the Budget Hearing on December 9th. Mr. Harry Bryant, 5140 Irondale Road, stated that the value of his home went down and his taxes increased 47.2. Orduno stated this seems to be a common occurrence for people with mid range griced homes and that is a result of the tax rate changes made by the Legislature. Bryant again stated that he realizes that the 47~ was levied by the State and that Mounds View had nothing to do with it. . Mayor Linke stated the City has no control over the value placed on the home. Mr. Bryant stated that 47$ is outrageous. Mayor Linke stated that the City currently receives $.13 percent of your tax dollar compared to the $.55 the school district receives. Mr. Bill Werner, 2442 Sherwood Road stated that what he thinks a lot of the tax payers see is finger pointing by local government, the school district, the state and the Metropolitan Waste Control Commission. Mr. Werner stated, in his opinion, the ultimate loosers are the tax payers. Mr. Werner further stated that it seems as if the school district is treated bad by the state they complain and the same for municipalities. However, Mr. Werner stated that perhaps the municipalities didn't do a thorough lobbying job. Mr. Werner stated that the point is is that the process has got to stop somewhere. Mr. Werner stated that Ms. Orduno's presentation was very good and it stressed the fact that the City needs to rely less on unreliable sources of aid, but he further states that the most reliable source is the "good old taxpayer." Mr. Werner commented that his expenses go up, for instance, health insurance increases, car insurance increases but he can't go and tax someone. Mr. Werner stated that he has to make his budget meet one way or the other. Mr. Werner stated the utility being proposed would have a lower payment the first and second year meaning the utility only pays for itself for two years. The third and fourth years show a deficit which means an increase. Mr. Werner stated that he noted the City of nds View City Council gular Meeting • Page Six November 25, 1991 Vadnais Heights has a park maintenance assessment. Maybe the City should charge a park maintenance fee, or a fee for the janitor because he shovels five feet of the City Hall sidewalk. Mr. Werner stated this could go on and on. Mr. Werner stated these are only ways to get around the problem, but the taxpayers want the problem solved. Mr. Werner commented that the Council has .probably already made up their mind with regard to this issue but he would like to make a last ditch effort, for the sake of the taxpayers, to vote against the utility. Mr. Werner stated that the Council would gain more respect from their voting public if they don't impose the utility and find a more creative way to solve this problem that to tax the residents of Mounds View. Mayor Linke stated that he was very appreciative of Mr. Werner's comments and commended him for the way in which he presented his arguments both at the public hearing and at this meeting. Mayor Linke stated the City has been frugal and has been penalized for doing so. Mayor Linke stated the City is presently understaffed in public works and police and if a poll were taken of the other departments they would also indicate they could use one more person to do the job. stated that the City has a part-time planner. Mayor Linke further stated that due to the cuts in the budget the Council has eliminated employees in the last year and will have to eliminate others. Mayor Linke also stated that he realizes how the taxpayers feel because what comes out of their pockets also comes out of his. Mayor Linke stated that the City will no longer be able to provide the services at the level the public wants them at and further stated that in a recent survey of city services and cooperative efforts, the state was suprised at what we do now to save money. The cities are now looking at other ways to save money county-wide. Mr. Werner, Jr. stated that the legislature has forced efficient and cost effectiveness on some branches of local government. Mayor Linke stated that if the City had some extra staff that could be cut, but it doesn't. Mayor Linke stated that the city is two police officers short and could use one or two more employees in the public works department. Mayor Linke stated that during the last snowstorm the City ran the snowplow drivers longer than it should have. Mr. Werner, Jr. stated that. the utility has a 10~ increase which Mayor Linke confirmed was approximately five lights and a 3~ increase which is approximately two lights. Mr. Werner asked if the City • ~nds View City Council gular Meeting Page Seven November 25, 1991 can a ford this. Mr. Werner stated that some people want some of the streetlights turned off.. Mr. Werner stated the he lives mid- block and that the streetlight provides no safety factor for him, therefore, he should only pay for what he uses which is approixmately $.34. Mr. Werner stated that the City should not be considering an increase at all. Mr. Werner stated that the City should cut back on streetlights. Mayor Linke stated that there is a plan for street light installation s The City would not put more in that the plan says it should. Mr. Werner, Jr. suggested that half of the street lights be shut off in Mounds View and see if more burglaries happen in Mounds View as a result. Mr. Werner would volunteer to have the street light on the closest block to him shut off. Mr. Werner stated this could be a test case to see if word gets around that Mounds View is an easy target for burglary because of its lower number of streetlights. If the burglaries increase a year from now then Mr. Werner indicated that he would stand and say all right. Mr. Werner stated that he carried this a bit far but did it to set up an analogy. Mr. Werner again stated that the City shouldn't be considering an increase in streetlights if we can't afford police officers nor do the residents need the snowplows to go down their Bill Frits, 8072 Long Lake Road, asked how can the City be short two police officers when the City has not grown one square inch in twenty-five years and the same area is being patrolled. Mr. Frits asked what's happening to those that the City has? Mr. Frits also stated the City should look at more cuts and .that the City will have to cut services. Mr. Frits asked how large a club do the residents need to hit the Council over the head with in order for them to understand that the Council can't increase costs to the taxpayers any further. Mr. Frits stated that if he were bit by a small snake rather than a large snake, he would still have been bitten by a snake. streets three or four times. Mr. Werner urged the Council to look into where the .waste is going on. Mr. Werner stated that possibly the computer time could be used to run a statistical analysis to find out where the services the City offers are not cost effective rather than to run billing on the street light utility. Mayor Linke stated that the poplulation of the City was 4,000 then and now has approximately 13,000 residents. Mayor Linke indicated to Mr. Frits that he was a union man and should understand that these police officers get vacation time. Mayor. Linke stated that some of these officers have up to four earned weeks of vacation at this point. Mayor Linke further • indicated that this means the City has twelve officers and that totals twelve months of vacation that the City has to cover - that's one full man. ~unds View City Council gular Meeting • Page Eight November 25, 1991 Bill Frits stated the City should lay off the old as in other Cities and therefore you needn't worry about accrued vacation. Mayor Linke stated the Teamsters Union would not be happy with that and also Mayor Linke stated these police officers know the City well and do a very fine job. William Werner, Sr. stated Ms. Orduno gave a very good presentation, however, the pitch was very directed, as to be expected. Mr. Werner indicated that a statement had been made in the presentation that the cities were thinking of new ways to obtain revenues. Mr. .Werner asked where is the accountability for services and is this the same philosophy used in planning for all departments and revenues? Mr. Werner stated thatthe services should be looked at and determined if there are a need for some of them and get feedback from the public. Mayor Linke stated he hears about many of the other services in town, such as certain residents feel the police officers should come down their street more often, or the snowplows only made one run down their street and it is still full of snow -- why aren't these people doing their jobs? Mayor Linkestated the City lost 1~ of $1.5 million and the City has to make this up just to break even. Linke stated services had to be cut this year and Councilmember Quick added that services also had to be cut the year before. Bill Werner, Jr., asked what criteria was used to single out the street light utility as a means of raising additional revenues. Orduno stated that cities work hand in hand with one another to find ways of providing services without burdening the taxpayers. Orduno stated that cities discuss what to do in crisis times and also listen to what other cities are doing when faced with these problems.. Orduno stated that. street light utilities are common, several cities have implemented this type of utility which is a user based fee rather than taking revenue out of the general fund. Orduno stated that alternative revenue sources are common in other cities and that there is nothing innovative and new but something that is tried and true in other cities. Orduno stated that these programs are ways of receiving alternative revenue sources that meet the desired ends without imposing undue burdens on the property taxes. Orduno stated she called, at random people who live in other cities and those persons comments were they were not aware of this addition on their bill as being a problem. Orduno stated that during conversations, people stated the fee was felt nominally over time. • 4 ~nds View City Council gular Meeting Page Nine November 25, 1991 William Werner, Jr., asked what's going to happen down the line as taxes and alternative revenues grow and the taxpayers can't afford it. Mr. Werner wonders if down the line the City will look at a parks maintenance fee like Vadnais Heights did. Werner questions if the City will wait until the taxpayer forgets about the street light utility and then impose another tax. Mr. Werner suggested that the City should look into user fees for services. Mr. Werner, Jr., stated that the City has more specific items that could be user-based fees than. street lights. Mr. Werner, Jr., inidicated the possible football fields, baseball fields and parks could have a user-based fee imposed on the persons who use them. Mr. Werner, Jr., stated that with this street light utility his charge should be based on the light or safety that one receives from it. Mayor Linke stated that when you come to an intersection and it is lit that is safety. Mayor Linke stated that adult softball generates $15,000 worth of revenue over and above their costs. Mayor Linke stated the City imposes user fees now. Mayor Linke further stated that one of the .Mayor Linke entertained a motion for the second reading of Ordinance No. 497 Implementing a Street Light Utilitiy. user fees the City had was the licensing of contractors for work they were doing in the City. The State of Minnesota is doing it now. Mayor Linke stated that part of the money the City lost from these revenues is what pays the building inspector's wages and now that money has to be taken out of someplace else. MOTION/SECOND: Quick/Wuori to waive second reading and adopt Ordinance No. 497 Implementing a Street Light Utility... Councilmember Blanchard stated that before a vote was taken on this item she would like to suggest a sunset clause be added in. Could the maker and seconder of the motion be asked if the would go along with adding a Section VIII stating that the ordinance would be automatically repealed as of December 31, 1993 unless earlier enacted upon by the City Council. The amendment was accepted by the Maker and Seconder of the Motion. Councilmember Rickaby reiterated what she had said at the last meeting regarding this subject. Rickaby commented on what Harry Bryant stated to the Council regarding his taxes. Rickaby stated that the state has built in a circuit breaker for those persons whose • taxes have gone up more. than 10~ -- the overamount doesn't have to be paid. Rickaby stated that this circuit breaker was created for those who are not so well off or whose homes are not of a high ~nds View City Council. gular Meeting Page Ten November 25, 199.1 value. Rickaby stated that putting taxes in other places such as the street light utility and renaming those taxes circumvents what the circuit breaker was designated for. Rickaby stated that in regard to police asking for more street lights-- they are biased because they know if more street lights are added will increase revenues to be able to add more police employees. Rickaby further stated that when the street light petition went around in her neighborhood, the only person who would not sign it was a police officer who lived across the street. Police are asking for more street lights. Police are biased. Rickaby stated that the Council believes if they can do the street light utility they can can put back some of the cuts that have been made.Rickaby stated the City needs to bite the bullet -- make the cuts and live with them. Rickaby reiterated what Bill Werner, Jr., had said that the City should not be thinking about increases and maybe at some later date if it were really necessary the City could ask the people for money, • Mayor Linke stated with regard to the police asking for more street lights -- this was asked 4 1/2 to 5 years ago and has nothing to do with what is going on now. Mayor Linke stated that the police are concerned with the health, safety and welfare of the City and has nothing to do with the street light utility. Roger Stigney, 8400 Eastwood Road, was watching this meeting on cable and felt compelled to come to City Hall and give his opinion. Mr. Stigney stated he does not feel the city is frugal in nature. Mr. Stigney stated that every time he opened the New Brighton Bulletin he saw more money being spent for everything. Mr. Stigney stated that the City was just throwing the money around like it was going out of style. Mr. Stigney stated the City was always purchasing more equipment and new computers. Mr. Stigney stated the City should look within to see where cuts can be made; City hired a Clerk-Administrator for $58,000 per year and gave her a raise after six months. Mr. Stigney. asked if the current raise was to be the standard IOC. Mr. Stigney stated that the public works and police should be paid more and that he has been told they are low paid. Mayor Linke informed Mr. Stigney that the average raise for Mounds View employees is 3~ and public works will get the same. Mr. Stigney stated that the Clerk-Administrator is overpaid. Mayor Linke asked Mr. Stigney if he new what the salaries were. • ~unds View City Council gular Meeting Page Eleven November 25, 1991 Mr. .Stigney responded that he did know because of his involvement with carrying around a petition regarding the Clerk-Administrator's salary. Mr. Stigney stated that his own personal feelings were that there are City employees that could use more money. Stigney further stated the Clerk-Administrator could use less money. Stigney stated the equity of pay is out of wack, the top people are paid too much and the bottom people too little. Mayor Linke stated he worked in both the city and a corporation and felt that the upper echelon and lower staff are closer here than in a corporation. Mayor Linke commented that the public works people are paid a union-based salary. Mayor Linke stated that these persons are making what the union says they should be making. Mayor Linke stated that Mr. Stigney should be able to support his comments rather than just throw them out. Mr. Stigney stated that he talked to many of them and they are pinched for money compared to pay received by others elsewhere. Mayor Linke stated he rides with the police officers every six months and talks to the public works employees and he doesn't hear those things. Mr. Stigney stated that he wanted to make one last statement and that was that he did not agree with the street light utility and was opposed to it and that the City should look at the top salaries, health benefits and insurance being paid. Mr. Bill Frits stated that he would like to have the words public hearing added with the sundown amendment. Mr. Frits stated he did not trust the Council and wanted a public hearing to be held when this ordinance came to the end of the term. Councilmember Quick stated that this ordinance would end the utility after two years. Quick further stated at that time if it were to be continued the whole process would have to be reenacted including a public hearing. Mayor Linke stated that on January 1, 1994, unless it goes through the Council at that time, there will be no utility. Linke stated that at that point in time it ceases to exist. Linke further stated to reinstate the utility it would have to go through the public hearing, first and second reading and be published before it could • be reinstated. ~unds View City Council . gular Meeting Page Twelve November 25, 1991 Mark Barney, City Attorney, stated this ordinance would be repealed automatically. Barney further stated to add language regarding public hearing is repeating itself. Mr. Bill Frits asked why the Council was objecting if it doesn't mean anything to not have the language in. Mayor Linke stated with a sunset clause the utility would be dead in 1993 and the whole process would have to be continued to reinstate the utility. Naja Werner, 2765 Sherwood Road, inquired as to if the revenue enhancement measure passes as a utility, her understanding is that it will be a monthly fee of $1.21. Ms. Werner inquired also if this rate would stay the same for the entire three years or if NSP would raise their rates would the fee be changed. Mayor Linke responded that any raise by NSP is built in and covered by the $1.21. William Werner, Sr. stated the Council shouldn't pass this at all . and should forget about the sunset clause. Mr. Werner, Sr., feels the Council should deal with the problem now. Mr. Bill Johnson, 7860 Groveland Road, stated he owns rental property in the form of a four-plex. Mr. Johnson further stated that he pays non-homestead taxes which come out to about $4,000 per year. Mr. Johnson stated the City is adding another additional tax on to the tax roles. Mr. Johnson also stated that rental property is in bad shape these days; his building is deteriorating and he has had to spend much money out of .his own pocket. Mr. Johnson questions who will pay this tax for him. Mr. Johnson stated that if his tenants want more light he installs a light in his parking lot. Mr. Johnson stated he wanted no more taxes. Naja Werner stated that Mounds View has a lot of business parks. Naja Werner wanted to now if they are paying their fair share of the tax burden. Naja Werner also wanted to know if there were special concessions given to businesses to come to Mound View. Mayor Linke responded to Ms. Werner's question with most of the businesses were brought to Mounds View through Tax Increment Financing. Mayor Linke explained that if raw land is worth $1.00 and after the buildings are added it is worth $3.00 in taxes, the additional taxes pay off the bonds. The City gets a percentage of the dollar. Mayor Linke said most of these are set up for fifteen years but ours are way ahead of schedule. What's nice • about this utility is businesses will be paying approximately $5.00 per acre. ~unds View City Council gular Meeting Page Thirteen November 25, 1991 Naja Werner stated that $5.00 per acre does not seem like much for a business that size when the resident has to pay $1.21. Naja Werner again questioned if they were carrying their weight for the roads and water and sewer. Mayor Linke responded that their tax rates are higher than ours and that Ms. Werner should come in and look at the documents. Mayor Linke stated the Council is not trying to hide anything. Councilmember Blanchard stated she really doesn't like. the street light utility but something has to be done. Blanchard stated that street light utility fees can only be used for street lights but can free up other monies and can counteract what we are losing in state aids. Councilmember Blanchard stated the utility would only be in effect two years only if it passes with the amendment. Naja Werner stated the taxpayers want the expenses cut. Ms. Werner also stated that the residents don't want to use • the money for other things. Ms. Werner stated that. the City has to start cutting out things. Ms. Werner stated other things could be cut and more cuts could be made. Councilmember Blanchard stated fees would not be used to restart things cut out of the budget. Blanchard further stated it would be used for ope~ting expenses. Mayor Linke stated it was like taking $55,000 out of savings to use from the first of the year through July 1st for the City to live on. Naja Werner stated that everyone has to do this. Naja Werner stated that instead of taking from savings, the City should start cutting expenses. Ms. Werner stated more cuts could be made if the City looked harder. Naja Werner stated this council is a bloated beauracracy at City Hall. Ms. Werner stated she has lived in this city 36 years and this is just increasing over the years.. Naja Werner stated the Council should think of the taxpayers and make cuts and tighten belts. Mr. Stigney asked if City Hall expansion was cut. Mayor Linke's response was that no timetable has been set but it has been talked about. Mayor Linke stated that if it isn't • talked about nothing can be done. ~nds View City Council gular Meeting Mayor Linke called for the vote. Mayor Linke - yes Councilmember Wuori -yes Councilmember Quick - yes Councilmember Blanchard yes Councilmember Rickaby - no Motion Carries Page Fourteen November 25, 1991 Mr. Bill Werner, Jr. was going to ask if Ms. Blanchard would consider a one year sunset clause. Councilmember Blanchard stated her reason for setting a two year sunset clause was that there is an election next year and the new council should have the right to decide what will be done with this ordinance. Bill Werner, Jr. asked if our elections were even years. Werner suggested the utility end at the end of the term and let the next Council deal with it as they choose. • Mayor Linke stated that one year from now the Council will be going through the same things during the budget process so it will be looked at again then. 2. Samantha Orduno, City Administrator reviewed Resolution No. 4142 Supporting the Planning Process of Ramsey County and. Its Cities and ensure the Economic Health of the County and All of its Cities. Since January of this year representatives of Ramsey County and its cities and the Metro East Development partnership have been working together to build a concensus among the County's governmental units in regards to the planning and implementation of economic development programs. Naja Werner stated that it sounded good but what would it cost her? Orduno stated that it was Community Development Block Grant money that is given to counties to give to cities. Samantha has attended many meetings at the Shoreview Community Center and discussed the future of TIF especially for low and moderate income housing and to continue to work on county-wide planning processes for economic development. Orduno gave an example of if a business came to a neighboring city and they did not have room for that particular type of business that city could refer the business to Mounds View. Councilmember Blanchard asked what is the East Development Partnership. ~unds View City Council gular Meeting Page Fifteen November 25, 1991 Orduno explained it as being similar to the North Metro Mayor's Association and that the east metro cities belong to it and discuss economic development issues. Mayor Linke stated that when Metro East was first started Mounds View wasn't asked to join because they forgot we were part of Ramsey County. Naja Werner stated that Uncle Sam had already taken this money out of our pockets and given it to Ramsey County for a grant to work off of. Mayor Linke entertained a motion to approve, table or deny Resolution No. 4142. MOTION/SECOND: Wuori/Rickaby to adopt Resolution No. 4142 Supporting the Planning Process of Ramsey County and Its Cities and Ensure the: Economic Health of the County and All of Its Cities 5 ayes 0 nays Motion Carried 10. REPORT OF COUNCILMEMBERS • Report of Councilmember uick: No report. Report of Councilmember Blanchard: No report. Report of Councilmember Rickaby: No report Report of Councilmember Wuori: Councilmember Wuori stated she had no report but would like to move reconsideration of Ordinance No. 498 Implementing a Gas and Electric Franchise Fee. Wuori stated there were good comments made here tonight but she would like to keep options open at this time. Wuori stated it would give more option to the public to state their feelings if this ordinance were reconsidered. Councilmember Rickaby stated that this has already been up for a vote and shouldn't be reconsidered at this time. This item was discussed at a public meeting with public participation and should not be discussed at this time for reconsideraton. Mayor Linke stated this is a reconsideration of the vote of two weeks ago on the first reading of Ordinance No. 498. Naja Werner stated this matter had already been decided. Councilmember Wuori stated that it would be good to keep options open . during the budget process. Wuori also stated that two weeks from now as the Council goes through the budget we can keep this in mind as something that will help us in the whole process. ~unds View City Council gular Meeting Page Sixteen November 25, 1991 Naja Werner asked if you would do this at the budget hearing when all the taxpayers were here. Mayor Linke again stated this was a reconsideration of the first vote. If the reconsideration passes the item will come up again in two weeks. Councilmember Wuori stated that by bringing it up now more people will be aware of it. Wuori stated that this franchise has received tremendous coverage tonight; this is a crowd. Mr. Werner, Jr., stated that two weeks ago we went through this and NSP made its testimony. Mr. Werner inquired as to what has changed. Mr. Werner asked if the views of the citizens of Mounds View have changed. Mr. Werner stated it would be like saying we have increased your taxes, but by the way can we look at this utility or franchise fee to which we will add more money to your gas bill. Bill Frits, $072 Long Lake Road questioned if it was a practice to hold a hearing, get results and then hold a reconsideration. Mr. Frits stated that that's reopening the hearing as far as he was concerned. Mayor Linke stated that this is a reconsideration of the vote taken at that time which was a 3 to 2 vote resulting in a denial. Mayor Linke stated that a person from the prevailing side can bring the issue up for reconsideration and Councilmember Wuori was on the prevailing side and brought the issue up for reconsideration and that is a legal question before us at this time. Councilmember Quick seconded the motion. 3 ayes 2 nays Motion Carries Motion passes by a simple majority for reconsideration. Councilmember Rickaby asked if the vote had to pass by 4/5's vote and the answer from Mayor Linke was no it would pass by only a simple majority. Mayor Linke asked Samantha Orduno, City Administrator, to make a refresher presentation on the utility franchise fee. Bill Werner, Jr., stated that Roberts Rules be damned with regard to this case. Mr. Werner wanted to know how cost effective it is to discuss the same thing tonight as we discussed it last week and • was voted on. ~unds View City Council gulag Meeting Page Seventeen November 25, 1991 Dave Schwartz, representative of NSP had two points he would like to make. One of the points Mr. Schwartz clarified was that there is a misconception about NSP's use of the roads and public right- of- ways.. Mr. Schwartz states as far as NSP using roads for public utilities and right-of-ways it paid personal property tax of 10.9 million dollars to Ramsey County last year. Those taxes were for NSP's use of the roads. Mr. Schwartz also stated that the way it sounds is that NSP should be picking up the tab, however, the fee is charged directly to the user. During these times when people are cutting back, something they have control of, our concerns are the fees on them. Mr. Schwartz stated that some heat their homes with electric and this makes a drastic difference over those that heat with gas. Mr. Schwartz also stated that in some cases, some people don't use gas or electric to heat their homes, therefore, NSP believes this is not an equitable tax.- Roger Stigney stated that he is opposed to this tax because it is the taxpayer who pays. The City staff needs to look at cutting expenses. Mr. Stigney states that Councilmembers often say that . they have received a phone call from a resident and that this resident is a sign of the pulse of the community. Mr. Stigney states that if a true pulse of the community is wanted why not place a questionnaire in the City newsletter and have the residents-fill it out and state what services should be cut, ask what staff could be cut, and what salaries could be cut. Alice Frits, 8072 Long Lake Road, asked what time of the week or two weeks was it decided to reconsider this utility franchise fee tonite. Ms. Frits stated that someone knew it would be reconsidered in order to notify NSP to have a representative here. Mayor Linke stated it was discussed at the budget hearing on Monday night. Mayor Linke stated it was discussed as to bringing it up again if someone changed their mind. Councilmember Quick clarified Mayor Linke's statement by saying the meeting last week was not a budget hearing but a budget work session. Dave Schwartz, NSP, said he called the City yesterday to see if it might be on the agenda and was told it was a possibility. Samantha Orduno, City Administrator, clarified Mr. Schwartz's statement that the call was made Friday of last week. Orduno stated that Sysco had called NSP and NSP called her. NSP was told that there was a • possiblility of a reconsideration of the vote and there was no reason to keep this from NSP or Mr. Schwartz. ~nds View City Council gular Meeting Page Eighteen November 25, 1991 Alice Frits stated that these items are necessary for all families. Those that are poor will have to cut back on gas and electricity and those that have the money will have heat and electricity. Those that are poor will have to suffer. John Rrager, 8280 Pleasant View Drive stated that this will be more than just a fee that Mounds View gives to NSP to collect. Mr. Rrager stated that administrative costs may not be charged directly, sooner or later there will be another cost. Mr. Rrager stated that they will think of a way to get this money from Mounds View. Mr. Krager further stated that Mounds View will loose some tax base as some businesses will leave Mounds View to go next door where they won't have to pay a franchise fee. Mr. Krager stated that maybe one way to obtain revenues is to bill NSP for services that we aid them in to do their job. Dave Schwartz asked what services? John Rrager stated public works help sometimes, police and fire. City services that have helped you. • Dave Schwartz states NSP works with the City such as submits permits for new installations and gas systems or electric utilities. NSP views they pay for these services in the $11 million in personal property tax NSP pays in addition to the real estate taxes also paid. Mayor Linke stated that this money goes to Ramsey County and the City does not see it. Dave Schwartz of NSP stated that the City of Mounds View received $18,485 in personal property tax back from the County, the school district received $72,016 in personal property tax, fiscal disparity was $51,486 and Ramsey County received $47,452. Dave Schwartz also explained. that franchise fees are long term contracts with the City up to 20 years. Mr. Schwartz state that the fee provision is that the City may charge back to the rate payer from 0 to 4 percent. Mr. Schwartz said the City told NSP they had revenue problems and its up to the citizens to take or not take issue with it. Bill Frits, 8072 Long Lake Road stated that he thought he should learn that he can't convice the Council or anyone that they can't keep taxing people. This utility is nothing more than a method of laundering money by having NSP take it away from the taxpayers and • give it to the City. Mr. Frits stated that NSP was just denied 3~ on a rate increase. Mr. Frits asked when will this be billed to the residents and how will that be billed. ~nds View City Council gular Meeting • Page Nineteen November 25, 1991 Dave Schwartz indicated it would be a separate line item on your utility bill and residents will also be paying sales tax. William Werner, Sr., stated to the Council that they were doing the wrong thing. The City needs to learn to live with Less services. Bill Werner, Jr., stated that the Council is violating democratic principles. The spirit of the process has been violated and he stated he brought this up as a means of observation only. Councilmember Rickaby stated that she takes these comments seriously. Bill Werner, Jr., was commending the Council last meeting for their openness. Rickaby stated that tonight as she observed she saw the openess vanish. Mayor Linke stated that there were more people here tonight than at the public hearing. Mayor Linke stated the meeting is cable cast and what the Council does here is under public scrutiny. Naja Werner stated, "let's forget about process", this is a lapse in_ethics. Ms. Werner asked if the City is forgetting the basic principles of democracy. Mayor Linke stated that he is comfortable with the process both ethically and morally. Councilmember Blanchard stated that if the Council voted again on the first reading more people will get the opportunity to come to the second reading. Councilmember Blanchard stated what she was trying to decide was what would be more advantageous to the residents to have a chance to speak up at second reading and then the Council could get more of a concensus from a bigger group of people. Blanchard stated that eight people in the audience are hardly the City majority. Bill Frits, 8072 Long Lake Road, stated he was out with three people this afternoon and all were vehement about this. Mr. Frits asked if those persons would come to the Council meeting with him and they said, no they would just watch me on television." Mr. Frits stated that we are kicking a dead horse around and that the Council should make a motion to deny. MOTION/SECOND: Rickaby/Blanchard to deny Ordinance No. 498 Implementing a Utility Franchise Fee • nds View City Council gular Meeting Page Twenty November 25, 1991 Councilmember Wuori stated that her intention was to get more input than had been recevied at the. public hearing. Wuori stated that the budget process has not been thoroughly explained to our audience and some are ready to just read it in the newspapers. There needs to be more input from the community. the community. What we have gotten here tonight is negative. Wuori stated she felt it was important to keep it out during the budget process when people can get an idea of what the budget is doing. Mayor Linke stated he will be voting in opposition to denial. Mayor Linke .stated he has been involved in many things for a long time, not just city things. Mayor Linke states that he has constant contact with others and he has gotten feedback that tells him what the service needs are. Mayor Linke stated that this year and next year property taxes have no where to go but up. Mayor Linke stated that he will be paying also, what the Council brings to you I get too." Mayor Linke stated he loves this City. His family moved here in 1950 when he was a year old, on his first birthday to be exact. He has been a lifelong resident of the City of Mounds View and is 42 years old. He questioned what will it be like when he is 45 . or 46? He is thinking ahead as to what services will be left for the youngsters and the elderly. The state is looking at a $2 to $5 million budget deficit. The state will get the money from the city. Councilmember Quick stated he supports the utility franchise for the same reasons as the mayor. If we vote it down the increases will be far more to the taxpayers than the franchise fee would. Councilmember Rickaby stated that the biggest reason she is against the franchise fee was that she was mistaken about what alternative utilities or franchise fees meant. Rickaby stated alternatives meant alternatives to property taxes. This alternative takes from cities now until the beginning of 1993 and we don't see any results of this; it goes into NSP pockets. NSP is receiving a handsome interest fee that pays all administration costs. People are in dire straits. The economy is in a financial crisis and people are afraid of loosing their jobs and the personal financial situations are bad and and we the City is considering adding another tax, street light utility or franchise fee to plan for cutting services two years from now. We can't keep on adding now to plan for the future. If the City .needs to tax in the future put it on the property taxes; a tax is a tax. Bill Frits stated taxes are too high. Mr. Frits stated there is only one person bring in the income in his family not two like the Mayor or Mr. Quick where there ar two incomes. • Mayor Linke stated if his were a one income family he could not survive either. ~nds View City Council gular Meeting Page Twenty-One November 25, 1991 Bill Werner, Jr., asked if the Council would be taking public input at the second reading of the ordinance. Would the Council discuss this ordinance the same night as the budget hearing to get a fairly good feeling on the part of the public? Mayor Linke stated that this item will be put out to television and newspapers and the Council is asking people to be there. Councilmember Rickaby stated that there is a theory that people are trained to act in certain ways. If people feel they are not being heard they will not keep coming. The people feel they don't have much impact. Councilmember Rickaby stated that she feels most of the decision making is done at the Work Sessions. Mayor Linke stated that this is the first reconsideration he has ran across in seventeen years. He stated it is the first time it has happened and he was glad it did. Mr. Schwartz asked if the second hearing is approved is this item put back on the docket. • Mayor Linke explained that if this motion passes it would go to a second reading and would need to be carried at the second reading by a 4/5 vote of the City Council. Bill Werner, Jr., asked if this motion passes by a 4/5 majority and goes to second reading and the second reading fails, how long is it dead? Can it be brought back up again? Mayor Linke stated if this motion fails on a 3 to 2 vote, I don't think anyone can bring it back again. If brought back, it would have to be someone from the prevailing side. Councilmember Quick asked if it would be true if this ordinance fails at 4~ could a move to 3.99 be a legitimate motion through second reading process. Mayor Linke stated that the prevailing side could be the only ones to bring it up again. 3 ayes 2 nays Motion Failed MOTION/SECOND: Quick/Wuori to approve first reading of Ordinance No. 498 to Implement a Utility Franchise with a 3~ Fee Councilmember Rickaby stated that she dittoed everything she previously had said from above. 3 ayes 2 nays Motion Failed ~unds View City Council gular Meeting c: REPORT OF MAYOR: No report Page Twenty-Two November 25, 1991 REPORT OF ADMINISTRATOR: Samantha Orduno asked why no one attended the School Board Hearings. Orduno reminded the audience and general public that Ramsey County would be holding their Hearings on December 10 and that the City would hold their Budget Hearing on December 9th. Orduno encouraged everyone to attend this hearing. REPORT OF CITY ATTORNEY: No report. ADJOURNMENT Mayor Linke stated that the Council's next Work Session would be December 2, 1991 and next regular Council Meeting would be December 9, 1991. There being no further business before the Council, Mayor Linke adjourned the meeting at 9:29 p.m. Respectfully submitted, v Michele Severson Deputy Clerk