HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL AGENDA 04191988 (2) Meeting Sheet
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Document: PL AGENDA 00191988
C=TY OF S T . ANTHONY
P L ANN=N G COMM 2 S S=ON M 2 NUTS S
APR 2 L 1 9 , 1 9 8 8
1 The meeting was opened at 7 : 30 P.M. with the Pledge of Allegiance led
2 by Chair Wagner.
3 Present for roll call: London, Brownell, Wagner, Werenicz, Madden.
4 Absent: Franzese and Hansen.
5 Also present: David Childs, City Manager.
6 MARCH 15 , 1988 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
7 Motion by Madden, seconded by Brownell to approve with the following
8 changes:
9 Page 3 , line 7 : Delete "out" between "supported" and "TCF' s" .
10 Page 4, line 7: Substitute "lane" for "land" .
11 Page 4, line 35 : Substitute "see" for "do" at end of line.
Page 7 , line 12: Substitute "one" for "tone" at end of line.
Page 9, line 39 : Insert "of" between "plans" and "Manch" .
Page 12, line 30: Delete "should" after "therapy" and correct
"Medicare" before "approved
16 Page 15 , line 27 : Close quotes after "center" .
17 Motion carried unanimously.
18 WAGNER TO REPRESENT COMMISSION AT APRIL 26TH COUNCIL MEETING
19 MISCELLANEOUS
20 New Definition for "Shopping Centers" Proposed by Commissioners
21 Mr. Childs reported the Council had declared a 90 day moratorium on
22 pylon shopping center signage at their last meeting to give the
23 Commissioners ample time to formulate the above. The City Manager had
24 included in the agenda packet copies of Section 430: 00 from the City' s
25 old Sign Ordinance from which he speculated Subdivision 5 defining
26 "shopping centers" might have been left out by accident when the new
27 ordinance was written.
28 At his suggestion, the Commissioners rewrote that section, substituting
29 "contiguous" for "continual" and "four" for "three" in the first line;
30 "18, 000" for 1110 ,000" in the second and recommended for clarification
31 that everything be deleted after "common patrons" in the 4th and 5th
.0lines.
Commissioner Madden cautioned against establishing a center size which
4 would be less than the total square footage for various types of
3.5 businesses carried on in the expanded Stonehouse on sale and liquor
36 warehouse and the barber shop in the fire station. Mr. Childs agreed
37 to have their suggestions, including the definition of "site" ,
38 reviewed by the City Attorney before the amended definition is given
39 to the Council.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
i
)2 Conditional Approval Recommended for Bonaventura Malt Shop/Video Arcade
3 in Vacant Apache Space
4 At 7 : 55 P.M. , Chair Wagner opened the hearing on the above request by
5 reading aloud the notice of the hearing which had been published in
6 the April 6th Bulletin and sent to all property owners of record
7 within 350 feet of the subject property. No one present reported
8 failure to receive the notice or objected to its content.
9 Permit from Michael Bonaventura, 3120 Rankin Road, for permission
10 applica- to open a "youth oriented malt shop and arcade with tobacco,
11 tion: alcohol, chemical free environment which would feature numer-
12 ous activities to attract adolescents and young adults and
13 provide a healthy, positive recreational climate for them
14 and affirm their value to the community" ;
15 for which the 34 amusement devices licenses held by Apache
16 management would be utilized in the 3 ,500 square foot space
17 which would include an office, two pool tables and a 24 X
18 12 foot dance floor to the rear;
under which at first packaged/microwave sandwiches would be
sold with plans to add a grill later, if the sales warranted;
.included a Wurlitizer juke box which could be controlled from
,22 the office would provide atmosphere music and music for
23 dancing.
24 Staff Childs summarized much of the information he had provided in
25 report: his April 15th memorandum including the conditions he would
26 recommend be established for granting the permit;
27 had included for Commission reference copies of the portions
28 of the September 15, 1987 Commission and September 22 , 1987
29 Council minutes which reported City reaction to a request to
30 open a similar operation next to the Apache Wells Bar within
31 the main Apache center which "might be alleviated some by
32 this building' s separation from the main mall" ;
33 had also provided copies of four letters supporting the
34 request;
35 indicated there were other letters circulating among the
36 Council;
37 reported Kenneth Lee, 3904 Penrod Lane, who was present that
38 evening, stopped in at City Hall to tell about the traffic
which had been generated across residential property in
.i= -1 2
Northeast Minneapolis to reach the St. Anthony
2 Fun Center;
J
3 said he didn' t perceive Mr. Lee was either for or against
4 the proposal, but was just alerting the City to what he felt
5 could happen in the neighborhoods near Apache;
6 told the Chair one permit would suffice for the restaurant
7 and arcade facilities, both of which are conditionally per-
8 mitted uses in the City Zoning Ordinance.
9 Michael Bonaventura gave the Commissioners a drawing of the space he
10 hopes to occupy in the vacated southern portion of what had originally
11 been a Montgomery Ward Auto Center and more recently a N.A.P.A. Auto
12 Parts Store, the northern portion of which he indicated the Tires Plus
13 Store would continue to occupy. The proponent pointed to the location
14 of that building, which is well separated from the mall and the Apache
15 Wells by a large parking lot.
16 He indicated the entrance to "Bono' s Malt Shop and Arcade" would be on
17 the southwest side away from Silver Lake Road and where the management
18 could more easily handle any problems which might arise in the parking
19 lot.
The proponent told the Commissioners his establishment would be well
supervised at all times with at least one well identified and uniformed
floor walker and a person behind . the_ service counter on duty day. and
,23 night. Another floor walker would be added on weekends and a third if
24 the crowds warranted. A one-way mirror in the office would provide
25 further supervision. The applicant said his experience as lounge
26 manager for Augies Lounge and Bowling Center had taught him how to
27 talk an objectionable customer away from the premises. However, he
28 said the type of establishment he was planning would tend to generate
29 respect and discourage patronage from groups of people who might cause
30 trouble.
31 The establisl �`Tlent would be open from 11 to 11 Monday through Thursday
32 during the summer but would close at 10: 00 P.M. weekdays while
33 District #282 schools are in session. The arcade would stay- open until
34 midnight on Friday and Saturday nights and operate from noon to 10 : 00
35 P.M. on Sundays. Mr. Bonaventura said by not staying open after
36 midnight, there would be little attraction for people coming from the
37 bars which close later. By opening at 11:00 A.M. , the proprietor said
38 he hoped to get lunch time patronage from the adjoining business and
39 residential areas.
40 Proponent Perceives His Establishment Would Be Unique
41 Mr. Bonaventura told the Commissioners the returns from the video games
were projected to support the operation and the returns from the malt
shop would enable him to make any repairs or upgrading which might be
desirable. He told Commissioner Werenicz he didn' t know of any other
3
establishment similar to his own which he perceived "would be very
2 unique. " He said he had carefully researched all the problems which he
-J3 could encounter with both young people and school officials before
4 entering into the project. Mr. Bonaventura agreed that the capacity of
5 his arcade might be stretched somewhat with promoted dances, but
6 assured the Commissioner that he would abide by any limits the Fire
7 Marshal might set, and extra security would be added if needed, to
8 handle those extra customers. Commissioner Werenicz said he could see .
9 where if the arcade really went over, there could easily be 300 or 400
10 young people present for one of his dances. Mr. Bonaventura indicated
11 he would just have to start a line at the door in that event.
12 The applicant indicated he wouldn' t be holding any dances until the
13 next school year. There would probably be only a dance one weekend
14 each month and then only after the Tires Plus store was closed so the
15 dance music wouldn' t become an annoyance for them. He said music
16 volume could always be controlled from the office. The facilities
17 would also be available for a small light show in the dance area as
18 well.
19 The proponent told Commissioner Brownell he only intended to promote
20 his establishment through the schools in the neighboring districts like
21 New Brighton, Fridley, Irondale, and Columbia Heights. There would be
05 no cover charge for the dances and the management would provide all the
music during the dances. The bathrooms would be locked and closely
monitored and Mr. Bonaventura said he was only having two pool tables
because he didn' t want to promote his place as a "pool hall" or "just a
2.6 game room" .
27 Commissioner London was told the booths along the east wall would
28 provide ample seating room to eat and there would be TV' s mounted near
29 the ceiling from which the kids could watch sports telecasts.
30 School Personnel and Students Are Supportive
31 one of the letters in the Commission agenda packet was from Terry
32 Schultz, Assistant Superintendent for Secondary Education for District
33 #624 and a former St. Anthony school administrator, who pointed to Mr.
34 Bonaventura' s management skills as meeting the requirements "to
35 successfully operate a youth-oriented business in the area. " In her
36 letter, Ms. Schultz discussed the need for recreational facilities for
37 adolescents and indicated the contacts Mr. Bonaventura had already
38 initiated with local school and municipal officials as well as with
39 community parent leaders would be of great. value to the venture.
40 Another School District administrator, Shelly Freeman, indicated she
41 had been with District #282 for 17 years. Her current job is Acting
42 Principal of the Middle School and Wellness Coordinator for the
43 District and Mrs. Freeman indicated it was from that capacity that she
was speaking that evening. She explained that during the last ten
years , it had been her primary responsibility to work with the
community young people and to provide a support system which would help
1 4
prevent negative things like drugs, suicide, etc. from impacting on
2 their lives. She said the one thing the young people perceived as
—3 missing from the area was a place of their own to hang 'out where they
4 can talk to each other, dance, eat, play games, but which would be
5 smoke, alcohol, and drug free at the same time. "
6' The school administrator was very enthusiastic about the place Mr.
7 Bonaventura proposed to open, saying she perceived the applicant grew
8 up and went to school in St. Anthony, knew the kids, and the kids
9 respected him. She said she had also been very impressed to see him
10 meeting with so many school kids and asking them for suggestions on how
11 his facilities would be run.
12 Ms. Freeman reported she had told Mayor Sundland she perceived it would
13 be better to spend all the money she has set aside for teaching about
14- drugs, etc. to support this establishment, which she believed would
15 have a greater impact on the young people than many of the things the
16 schools were trying to do.
17 The same perspective was offered by two St.. Anthony High School
18 seniors, Jeff Blomster, 2801-32nd Avenue N.E. , and Jon Eversoll, 108
19 Windsor Court, who said persons like themselves who are very active in
20 sports, etc. in school and are smoke, alcohol and drug free need a
04 place like the one proposed to go to to relax and have a good time with
their friends. Jeff said there . would 'be no similarity to the Fun
Center or the Apache Bowling Alley in this enterprise-. Jon reported he
was involved in Mrs. Freeman' s wellness programs where the problems St.
25 Anthony young people .have are discussed and he knew there were many of
26 the St. Anthony students who would use the facility to avoid places
27 which cater to young people who smoke and use alcohol and drugs. It
28 was estimated that at least 60% of the 150 students in the St. Anthony
29 wellness group would come to the arcade on a regular basis. . Jon said
30 there had been great interest demonstrated among the ninth and tenth
31 graders in that group for a hang out like this one, which he perceived
32 "would give I them an awfully good start on their . high 'school years. "
33 He added that none of the hang outs the St. Anthony kids used now had
34 as well defined policies related to not smoking, drinking or using
35 drugs as the one being proposed that evening.
36 Resident Support Tempered by Concern About What Might Come After This
37 Arcade
38 Speaking for the proposal were George and Ruth Thompson, 3015-39th
39 Avenue N.E. ; Ruth Nelson, 3919 Macalaster Drive; and Mr. Lee. All
40 indicated Mr. Bonaventura had convinced them he would be operating a
41 well run establishment which, if handled right, could provide a much
42 needed service for the youth in St. Anthony. However, they also
43 requested that the City write restrictions related to security, hours
44 of operation, etc. into the permit which would prevent management which
would not run the business as well from replacing Mr. Bonaventura if
for some unforeseeable reason he had to leave. Mrs. Thompson
5
suggested a condition which would shut the place down if that ever
2 happened, so their area would remain as crime free as it was now.
+3 Mr. Lee said his experience as a high schoolteacher and FFA leader
4 years ago had made him aware of just how difficult it is to control
5 even the best of young people when they are gathered together for
6 recreational purposes. He pointed to the potential for problems if the
7 City didn' t keep a close contact with what' s going on in the arcade
8 after the permit is granted. All four residents wished Mr. Bonaventura
9 well, however.
10 Apache Promotion Manager Foresees Positive Effects From Arcade
11 Barb Olsonski indicated she was very supportive of the business coming
12 into the shopping center, perceiving that if the community sees its
13 young people enjoying a good, clean recreational establishment like
1.4 this one, they might be encouraged to come back to shop at Apache.
15 She said, although she has nothing to do with Apache leases, she knew
16 the 34 licenses the center holds were a part of management' s
17 negotiations with Mike Bonaventura.
18 The hearing was closed at 8 : 40 P.M. for development of a Commission
19 recommendation to the Council.
Commissioner Brownell indicated he had been very impressed with the
fact that there were no speakers against the proposal, which he
2 attributed to "a good sales job by Mr. Bonaventura. " When he .
23 suggested the permit be granted directly to Mr. Bonaventura, Mr. Childs
24 said he would check with Mr. -Soth regarding that point. The City
25 Manager told Commissioner London he wasn' t certain how the City could
26 measure the sound levels in the arcade.
27 Commissioner Werericz said he had been amazed to see' some of his
28 daughter' s seven and eight year old friends wandering unsupervised
29 around Apache. - He suggested some limit be placed on the minimum age
30 which would be allowed in the arcade. The Commissioner also perceived
31 problems with children that age from the apartment buildings across
32 Silver Lake Road running across that busy roadway to get to the
33 arcade.
34 When the Commissioners sought help in establishing that age limit, Mrs.
35 Freeman told them she agreed about restricting younger children, but
36 thought the 7th and 8th graders might be just the ones who most needed
37 to hang out in the type of place where they wouldn' t be encouraged to
38 smoke, drink or use drugs. Commissioner London agreed, saying "if this
39 is the well run establishment Mike says, it' s going to be, it might be
40 a great place for ten and eleven year olds to hang out in too. "
41 There was concurrence that having uniformed police officers at the door
2 might needlessly give the general public the wrong impression about the
arcade, especially since Mr. Bonaventura had promised to provide
whatever security was needed. Commissioner Wagner suggested this might
6
be one of the conditions which could be subject to review if there were
2 problems. There was agreement that a specific minimum age limit would
,3 not be established, but that would be another item which would be up
4 for review with the owner if problems arise.
5 Commission Recommendation
6 Motion by Brownell, seconded by Wagner to recommend the City Council
7 grant to Michael L. Bonaventura, DBA as Bono' s Malt Shop and Arcade,
8 the necessary conditional use permit to operate the proposed malt shop
9 and arcade in the southwest corner of the free-standing building
10 formerly occupied by N.A.P.A. Auto Parts store, under the following
11 conditions:
12 1 . The hours of operation would be from 11 : 00 A.M. to 11 : 00 P.M. ,
-13 Monday through Thursday during the time that District #282 schools
14 are not in session and from 11: 00 A.M. to midnight Friday and
15 Saturday and from noon to 10 : 00 P.M. on Sundays. During the
16 time that the schools are in session, the arcade can be open from
17 11:00 A.M. to 10 : 00 P.M. , Monday through Thursday; 11:00 A.M. to
18 midnight Friday and Saturday; and from noon to 10: 00 P.M. Sunday.
19 2 . A minimum of two supervisory persons, recognizable as such, whose
ages are at least 21 , would be on duty at this location whenever
the establishment is open.
3 . The malt shop/arcade shall be designated as a smoke, alcohol, and
23 drug free environment.
24 4 . During the first year of operation, the establishment will be
25 subject to review at the discretion of the City and thereafter,
26 on an annual basis with input from the Police Chief based on
27 statistics on the number and nature of calls his department has
28 to make to the establishment. A change of ownership would call
29 for an automatic review.
30 5 . Noise would be kept at the level where there would be no annoy-
31 ance of adjacent businesses or residences and external speakers
32 would not be permitted.
33 6 . The permit would be issued to Michael Bonaventura directly.
34 7. Occupancy would be strictly limited to the number of persons
35 specified by the Fire Marshal.
36 8 . The number of amusement devices would be limited to 34 for this
37 establishment.
38 In recommending that this permit be granted, the Planning Commission
finds that:
7
1 a. Staff and City officials have received a number of letters
2 supporting the permit and there were several residents from
3 that area present at the Commission hearing who spoke for the
-' 4 establishment.
5 b. No one spoke against it, but two people did ask that conditions
6 representing their concerns about how it would be run be included
7 in the permit approval.
8 Motion carried unanimously
9 Agenda Order Changed
10 Motion by Madden, seconded by Werenicz to move (c) under Publi
11 Hearings up for consideration before (b) .
12 Motion carried unanimously
13 At 9 : 15 P.M. , the Chair opened the hearing on the Evergreen Developmen
14 Company request to change the zoning classification for 5. 3 acres o
15 vacant land located east of Fordham Drive south of silver Lane and wes
16 of the Soo Line railroad tracks from R-1 (single family residence) t
17 R-3 (townhouse) for a proposed townhouse development of 37 units of on
18 and two stories each.
19 The notice of the hearing, which had been published in the April 6t
• 20 Bulletin and sent to all property owners of record within 350 feet o
21 the subject property, was read aloud. No one present reported failur
22 to receive the notice or objected to its content.
23 Application: from Evergreen Development Corporation, 1920 Dain Tower
24 for townhome project consisting of 8 separate buildings
25 with total of 37 units ranging from 1,200 to 1,600
26 square feet in size, costing from $89,900 to $99,900;
27 supported by site plans in agenda packet.
28 Staff report: Childs' April 15th memorandum, indicating the request,
29 also included a triangular parcel about 1 acre on the
30 northeast end presently owned by the City;
31 reiterated that the proposed development is in conform-
32 ance with setback, parking, unit size, height, and all
33 other City zoning requirements;
34 said the project would be well below maximum density
35 allowed (55 units) ;
36 indicated proposed pond in the northern center would
37 continue all current storm water drainage patterns in
8
the neighborhood and probably would be a requirement
2 of the Rice Creek Watershed District;
3 reiterated that because of the parcel' s proximity to
4 the railroad track and because of major soil correc-
5 tions which would be necessary, single family resi-
6 dential- development on the site would be economically
7 unfeasible;
8 reported the proposal met the 1980 Comprehensive Plan
9 which showed medium density residential in this area;
10 pointed to the fact that developed lots to the west
11 are 300 feet deep which would leave a major separation
12 between the development and those homes;
13 explained how Tax Increment subsidy of soil correction
14 costs would make the project feasible;
15 reported staff had received four calls related to the
16 project - one from the New Brighton City Planner who
17 reported receiving calls from New Brighton residents on
18 Oakwood; the second from a New Brighton resident who
requested copies of the plan; and two from Silver Lane
residents;
1 Mr. Oertwich, who lives on Silver Lane adjacent to the
22 property, who had questions about the landscaped buffer
23 of his property and another from another resident who.
24 didn' t seem to have strong objections but had questions
25 about how his property would be affected;
Zb told Commissioner Werenicz a Tax Increment District
27 would have tobe formed to provide soil correction
28 money for the project and that was somewhat up in the
29 air because the legislature was just that day con-
30 sidering changes which might change how Tax Increment
31 Districts work.
32 Proponents: Vern Hoium, Evergreen President
33 Ursula Sheehy, Vice President and responsible for mark-
34 eting
35 Jim Hill, Planning and Design who had made the prelim-
36 inary drawings presented that evening
37 Steven Yurick, planning consultant.
38 Mr. Hoium reiterated some of the information related to the project
39 which had been contained in the Evergreen memorandum attached to their
40 Petition for Rezoning. He and Ms. Sheehy emphasized the perception
they had gained from focus groups and marketing that a number of
prospective buyers in the 55 and over age range had indicated a desire
to have bedrooms on the first level rather than on multi-levels as in
9
the Village Townhome project. However, the middle 21 units would have
2 bedrooms on the second level.
� J
3 The target age would be from 30 to 70 , with buyers without children
4 being the major market, Mr. Hoium indicated.
5 In discussing the poor soil conditions of the parcel with Commissioners
6 Madden and London, the Evergreen President reported receiving a firm
7 bid of $327 , 000 from an excavating company for the removal of 35, 000
8 cubic yards of soil and bringing in 51,000 cubic yards of subsoil for
9 compacting to make it suitable for townhome construction. Mr. Hoium
10 . reported the excavators had based their bid on four soil borings by
11 Twin City Testing, agreeing with Commissioner Madden that four was not
12 a large number for a parcel that size, but that it was a preliminary
13 test only. Mr. Hoium said his firm would only be interested in
14 changing the zoning for this parcel for this particular project. He
15 pointed to the. proposed positioning of the eight buildings shown on the
16 chart erected in the hearing room, saying the configurations could vary
17 and 'the units could, be developed for between one and four bedrooms
18 depending on how the interiors are done.
19 Mr. Hill .indicated that although it had not been shown on the plans,
20 Evergreen intended to do some berming and/or planting of trees and
04 shrubbery to minimize the impact of the railroad tracks. He said
there are no more than four trains, a day through the area and
Evergreen had not yet negotiated an agreement with the railroad company
to provide the proposed buffer on theirright-of-way. FHA funding
25 would require all units to be at- least 100 feet away from the tracks.
26 The perimeter road would also run between the buildings and tracks.
27 Because the tracks would be higher than the project grade, it would
28 probably require more plantings than berming to adequately screen the
29 project. Commissioner London said he perceived it would be in the
30 interest of the development company to get permission from the railroad
31 company to use a good deal of the soils from the site for berming
32 rather than to pay the contractor for hauling it away.
33 Soil
34 Mr. Hoium told Commissioner Brownell he perceived the soil corrections
.35 on this parcel would make it almost impossible to build more than 10
36 single family homes on the site, which would still require extensive
37 soil corrections. The Commissioner estimated that in accordance with
38 the bid which had been made, that would amount to $32 ,000 in soil
39 corrections per house.
40 The Evergreen President told one of the 20 residents present that the
41 most favorable soil boring on the site had shown bad soils to an eight
42 foot depth. All the really bad soils appear to be in the middle of
43 the site where the pond was going to be built and are bad to a depth of
28 feet. The area to the south was also quite bad, with all fill and
no trees. All fill, which had been brought in but never compacted,
10
would have to be taken out, Mr. Hoium said. He told Commissioner
2 London the area consisted of soft but probably not swampy soil.
3 One resident said he thought more definitive soil information was
4 needed to prove single family homes would not be feasible. Mr. Hoium
5 told him most of the bad soil was in the 20 foot depth range. Mr.
6 Hoium also commented that an apartment house would be the most
7 feasible development on this site, with the least amount of soil
8 corrections for the maximum number of units, but no one wanted to see
9 that type of development on the site. All the streets in the project
10 would be private.
11 Drainage
12 Mr. Hill reiterated that the final drainage plan would be up to the
13 Rice Creek Watershed District but the developers had not yet involved
14 civil engineers in the project. From preliminary studies they knew
15 they had to handle water from the neighboring properties with some sort
16 of retention pond which had been briefly discussed with the City.
17 Buildings' Exteriors Discussed
18 Mr. Hill expanded on Evergreen' s application by saying all the
exteriors would be maintenance free of steel, vinyl, or aluminum to
meet the retired persons demands with predominately narrow boards and
use of brick depending on where the unit is located. There would be
asphalt roofs.'
23 Ms. Sheehy said she had just finished selling the last Village
24 Townhouse for Brighton Development. She said it had taken 2-1/2 years
25 to sell the project because those units with all the stairs were just
26 not the type of residences St. Anthony buyers were looking for. The
27 marketing vice president showed a large book of many pages showing the
28 large number of people who had looked at those units. Half of the
29 buyers were single women, mostly 40 and under and not from St.
30 Anthony, she said, because those floor plans were not what St. Anthony
31 residents wanted. The Evergreen executive said she learned from
32 talking to the St. Anthony lookers that there is a large untapped
33 source of buyers from St. Anthony who don' t want to leave the City and
34 would probably be more interested in the floor plans proposed for this
35 project.
36 Commission Hears From Neighbors Who Either Oppose or Had Concerns About
37 the Proposal
38 Birger Kylander, 4013 Fordham Drive, didn' t want the City to give "a
39 blanket rezoning to the property without specifically knowing what' s
40 going in there" . Indicated that if Evergreen didn' t go ahead with
41 their plans, the neighbors could be left with a project like Mirror
Lane, which he said looked like "army barracks" . He perceived the
conditional use permit process should be used in this case.
� 11
Manager Proposes Holding Up Final Rezoning Reading
,__/2 Mr. Childs suggested another process- whereby the Council could pass the
3 first two readings of the Rezoning Ordinance, leaving the third to be
4 passed after the City has come to an agreement related to tax increment
5 funding and final design when the building permit is ready to be issued
6 for a project the City bargained for. The City would also have a
7 specific redevelopment agreement with the developer. He added that
8 conditional zoning was another issue being considered in the
9 Legislature right now and the city wouldn' t know for a couple of weeks
10 just what it was going to be allowed to do relative to conditional
11 zoning.
12 Mr. Hoium said that would be no problem for Evergreen, who
13 specifically wanted the zoning predicated on this particular project.
14 "North End Study" Doesn' t Support Limiting Development to Single Family
15 Homes
16 Mike McGinn, 4021 Fordham Drive, asked for the above document, which
17 the City Manager brought from the front offices. Mr. McGinn indicated
18 disappointment not to find the document supporting 18 to 20 single
19 family dwellings on that site, perceiving pilings might be one option
0 for such a development.
Keith Gordon, 4012 Fordham Drive, commented that it took less grading
for single home dwellings than for townhomes.
23 Hal Rodgers, 4011 Fordham Drive, indicated he understood the County
24 and State had been paying to haul that fill into that site and it now
25 sounded "quite ridiculous" for the City to have to subsidize the fill
26 removal. He said he had heard the City- planned to put a park in that
27 area at one time. He also questioned whether there would be enough
28 space for parking on the site, which, without adequate spaces for
29 visitors, he said could create traffic blockage on the streets.
30 Mr. Hill explained the aerator system which would keep the pond from
31 ' becoming stagnant and devices which would be used to protect that
32 equipment during the winter to Mrs. Morris Hall, 4020 Fordham Drive.
33 He said the aeration of the pond would be the responsibility of the
34 homeowners association.
35 The process of tax increment financing was explained by Mr. Childs for
36 the benefit of John White, 3404 Silver Lane. He said the Council has
37 to justify the use of these funds, but in this case, he perceived that
38 would not be hard to do considering how long the property had
39 remained undeveloped and the condition of the subsoils. He also said
40 he perceived the Council was very conservative when it came to this
41 type of funding, but would prefer having the site developed for owner-
occupied townhomes rather than condos or apartments, which could be
built there under the multi-residence classification the Comprehensive
Plan has envisioned for the site. The Manager pointed out how the
12
tax increment funding had worked to get 29 townhomes built on the
2 property at 33rd and Old Highway 8 where there had been a business
t-I which the neighbors found very objectionable. He said taxes from that
4 project would probably pay off that indebtedness in about six more
5 years.
6 Mr. Hoium told Richard Oertwich, 3408 Silver Lane, he was certain the
7 building proposed to be built closest to his property could easily be
8 repositioned to allow more than a 10 foot setback between properties or
9 a 3 unit building substituted for the large one in the plan. He also
10 verified that a one story structure was planned in that location unless
11 the buyer wanted to add another second story bedroom. Mr. Hill pointed
12 that there would be windows and not just blank wall on that side of the
13 building, which would be pretty much typical of a single family home.
14 He said that unit is 38 feet long, but has a 22 foot long garage,
15 making it 60 feet long. He also said the normal front yard setbacks
16 would be maintained with this development.
17 Mr. McGinn indicated he could understand why the developer wanted to
18 get some sort of approval before he spent any more money on the
19 project, but he was also concerned about changing the zoning before
20 more specifics were added. He was also concerned about an increase
21 of traffic on Fordham from 37 additional residences. He said the
2 1973 study had proposed a variety of uses for this land, including
single family homes, but he hadn' t been able to find specific reference
to the 15 homes he thought had been considered at that time. The
property owner warned that the attitude of those present would probably
- 26, not be as .mild -if apartments were ever proposed for that site as had
27 been -"sort of threatened" several times that evening.
28 Richard Puffer, 4025 Fordham Drive, said he had lived in this area over
29 30 years and on the long narrow lot next to the Oertwich' s for the last
30 10 years. Mr. Puffer said ever since he bought the property he had
31 intended to sell off the back lot or build a smaller home in the back
32 for himself. He therefore wanted the site to stay the- way it is.
33 ' Mrs. Thompson was assured that there was no reason to channel traffic
34 out on Fordham with a 44 foot wide street like Silver Lane designed as
35 the main thoroughfare. She said as long as that didn' t happen, she
36 could bear the increase which might happen on 39th.
37 Mr. Childs said that he was quite certain the Council would never want
38 to see an east/west connection made between Old Highway 8 and Silver
39 Lake Road on Silver Lane.
40 The City Manager said although he had at first said this was generally
41 aimed at the 55 and older market, he perceived it was also targeted at
42 young professionals without children and "empty nesters" because no
43 amenities for children had been proposed.
Allan Reid, 4001 Fordham Drive, said he owned the largest piece of
undeveloped property south of this site and he asked whether the City
13
was going to "trap all that property in there?" . Mr. Hoium said all
2 entrances to this project would empty out on Silver Lane with good
- '3 access to both Silver Lake Road and north to County Road E. He told
4 Mr. Reid with his lot extending from Fordham to the railroad track, his
5 back land was landlocked now and that wouldn't change with this
6 development, but that he did have ' access to Fordham. Relative to
7 parking, Mr. Hoium said each unit would have a two car garage with two
8 parking places beyond that. He said there would be a fair amount of
9 green area left over, but he doubted whether the neighbors wanted to
10 see that blacktopped. He said the 25 foot wide streets should be wide
11 enough to accommodate cars parking at least on one side.
12 Mr. Hoium told the neighbors the developers would be glad to make
13 adjustments like moving the building on Silver Lane Further east as
14 requested by the neighbor. He pointed out that 37 units was a
15 comparatively low density for the property and he perceived the project
16 was a good and attractive utilization of this land which was too nice
17 not to be utilized for the benefit of the City. The Evergreen
18 President added that he perceived these -units, with a market from
19 $90,000 to $120,000 , were commensurate with the housing in St.
20 Anthony Village, which the average home value in the City.
21 Mr. Hoium told Commissioner London they would hope to blend the grades
on the west side right in with the adjoining properties and said with
300 foot lots there would be at least a 100 foot buffer provided on
those yards only one of which has a garage to the rear. Mr. Hill said
the existing grades would probably be maintained in Silver Lane with
,-.'26 walkout (or walkup) entrances where the grade- is steep, thereby
27 . maintaining the existing drainage flow.
-28 Chair Wagner commented that the Planning Commission was only interested
29 in a concept plan for the project at this point, but the developer
30 would have to provide both detailed landscaping and drainage plans
31 before the final reading was given to the rezoning ordinance if that
32 was the way the Council went. He also reiterated that the Rice Creek
33 Watershed District would see to it that the drainage wasn' t
34 detrimental to any adjoining properties.
35 The hearing was closed at 10 : 35 P.M. , for consideration of a Commission
36 recommendation to the Council. Commissioner London agreed that this
37 would be a much nicer project than the one on Old Highway 8 and he
38 said he was surprised at the value of the units considering they would
39 be next to a railroad track.
40 Mr. Childs commented that as a practical matter, townhomes this
41 expensive were unlikely to be rented out. Ms. Sheehy said most
42 townhome association bylaws forbade renting except under very special
43 conditions.
The Commission reaction to the plan was quite favorable as long as
safeguards were built into it later in the process. There was little
r
14
expectation that the land would ever be developed for single family
2 homes.
3 Commission Recommendation
4 Motion by Madden, seconded by London to recommend that the City Council
5 change the zoning from R-1 (single family dwelling) to R-3 ( townhome)
6 for the 37 unit townhome project proposed to be constructed by the
7 Evergreen Development Corporation on the parcel legally described as
8 Lots 1, 2 , and 3 , Block 4 , Mounds View Acres, Ramsey County, MN and
9 Block 2 , Mounds View Acres, Ramsey County, MN and generally described
10 as a vacant parcel 5. 3 acres in size located east of Fordham Drive,
11 south of Silver Lane and west of the Soo Line Railroad tracks. The
12 commission recommends the zoning be changed on the condition that:
13 1 . The Zoning ordinance not be put into effect until detailed plans
14 have been received from the developer to include berming along
15 the railroad track area; trees and shrubbery along the western
16 edge of the property; and an increased sideyard setback on the
17 northwest corner.
18 2 . Drainage would be subject to City engineering approval.
In recommending this zoning change, the Planning Commission finds that:
A. There - were, speakers both for and against the proposal present
1 at the April 19th hearing on the proposal.
r' 22 B. The proposed use appears to be the best utilization of that pro-
23 perty and is in conformance with the Comprehensive Plan.
24 Motion carried unanimously.
25 St. Anthony Shopping Center Signage
26 . Commission Recommends Against Further St. Anthony Shopping Center
27 - Signage
28 The hearing to consider a request for a variance from the City Sign
29 ordinance from the Eberhardt Company for a 1019" X 16 ' tenant
30 directory wall sign to be installed on the northwest wall of the north
31 shopping center building to face Kenzie Terrace opened at 10: 50 P.M.
32 Chair Wagner read the notice of the hearing which had been published in
33 the April 6th Bulletin sent to all property owners of record within 250
34 feet of the subject property. No one present reported failure to
35 receive the notice or objected to its content.
36 Application: from the shopping center managers for a 172 square
foot directory sign at the end of the old Brown Photo
location on which the names of the center businesses
would be listed individually in four inch letters.
� !� 15
The drawing of the light fixture with which the pro-
posed sign would be lit from above had been distributed
3 to the Commissioners at the start of the hearing.
4 Staff report: Mr. Childs' April 15th memorandum advising that the
5 center already had its one allowed freestanding sign
6 and each store had at least one, sometimes two identi-
7 fication signs, including the Fun Center, painted on
8 the same building as the proposed sign.
9 David Bergstrom, the center manager and his assistant, Ron Johnson,
10 were present to discuss the Eberhardt request. Mr. Bergstrom
11 acknowledged the rather passive role in management of the center . the
12 owners had taken in the past but said he perceived that had been
13 drastically changed when a new person in New York, Joe DiSanto, came on
14 board last August. Since his arrival, the center had spent $72 ,000 for
15 painting and installation of awnings in the center and Mr. Bergstrom
16 said $36 , 000 in parking lot improvements had been started just that
17 day.
18 The center manager indicated another $35, 000 in improvements had been
19 tentatively planned this year towards continuous improvements of the
20 center. Mr. Bergstrom said the owners were no longer looking at
1 selling the center to another developer because Joe DiSanto considered
it to be a good center, had good possibilities , and he wanted to put
money into it.
f,24 The Eberhardt representatives told the Commissioners:
2'5 *the proposed sign was intended to highlight the Kenzie Terrace
26 entrance and thereby increase the traffic and business for the
27 center merchants;
28 *the $5 , 000 sign project would not be a profit making, project
29 for the center because after "a less than enthusiastic response
30 from the tenants" , the decision had been made for the owners to
31 assume $50. 00 of each panel' s cost at the same time they would
32 be paying for framing, installation, etc. of the whole sign;
33 *they would like to be able to promise there would be uniform
34 signage for the entire center by the end of the year but that
35 was not possible at this time; however,
36 *the property owners were in the process of financing other
37 property they owned in Dallas, Texas and hoped to over-
38 finance it by $100 ,000 which they could use to erect uniform
39 signage at the center;
40 *the bids for that signage had come in between $90 ,000 and
$120 , 000 depending on the size of the lettering;
16
!i
*the photos of the two types of signs being considered which they
presented included a new concept to Minnesota, a lighted canopy
�l 3� type of signage.
4 Commissioners Indicate Need for Major Sign Plan
5 Mr. Bergstrom told the Commissioners all the new center leases are
6 being written with uniform sign requirements. Commissioner Madden told
7 him he would be a lot more comfortable hearing that was what the
8 center was going to do right now and not by the end of the year and
9 farther down the line. He indicated he personally took a dim view of
10 approving the sign proposed that evening without a major signage plan
11 for the center.
12 Mr. Bergstrom said he knew the owners would be happy to discuss a
13 program whereby the City might subsidize the cost of the signage but
14 right now the property could not support a full signage program.
15 However, he considered the proposed sign as , the first step towards
16 improving the property. He did not think holding off on the first
17 step would improve chances of the secondary or third step towards that
18 improvement.
19 The Chair reminded the two managers of the commitment the owners had
made the Dairy Queen owner, which had prompted him -to reconstruct his
building in accordance with what was supposed to be a model prototype
building front .of improvements the owner was going to make in the
center. Mr. Bergstrom said he and hit assistants ' tenure with this
x'24 project- was relatively short and so they didn' t know a lot about the
25 history of the property. However, they doubted the existence of a
26 written commitment in that case.
27 Mr. Bergstrom said he perceived there was a need for identification of
28 the stores on Kenzie Terrace because only the back of the stores could
29 be seen from that street. He insisted the sign could attract more
30 customers to the center by telling those who drive by what is available
31 to them in the stores. Commissioner Werenicz indicated his experience
32with driving by a similar center sign had been that he had been
33 barely able to read the name of one store before passing by. He
34 thought this would be an extremely difficult sign to read and he
35 requested whether it would attract any new clientele to the center on
36 a drive-by basis. The applicant agreed that a driver could never read
37 all 26 names but he thought they would catch at least 5 or 6 which
38 might create enough interest to induce them to pull into the center.
39 Mr. Bergstrom indicated the Fun Center sign on the wall would be
40 removed when this new sign was erected. Commissioner Madden pointed
41 out that there was already a pretty good sized "Space Available" sign
42 on the same wall.
The general apathetic attitude of the merchants was pointed to as one
of the main reasons there had been no response to the sign promotion,
� ' 17
according to Mr. Bergstrom, who said until the center is turned around
2) it would be hard to change that.
i
3 Mr. Johnson said All Star Travel, Curtis Mathes and Jerry' s Toys had
4 indicated some interest in the sign, but he said the managers wouldn't
5 want to put the sign up at all without at least 70% or 80%
6 participation by the merchants. He indicated with the new Kenzington
7 development, the center managers hoped traffic on Kenzie Terrace would
8 be increased and even if some drivers didn' t read all the store names
9 the first time they passed, they would eventually get to know a good
10 percentage of them. He said people could almost drive by the center
11 entrance now without even being conscious that it was a shopping center
12 entrance.
13 The Assistant Manager said Eberhardt would be making all the
14 improvements like planting flowers, improving the parking lots, etc.
15 which could be supported by the existing cash flow. He perceived
16 there was a much. better chance of getting the face lift now than there
17 had been for the last three or five years when the last specialty
18 facelift was discussed. He didn' t see where the proposed signage would
19 actually be related to the new center signage which would have to be
20 interiorly illuminated and would probably cost a lot more.
21 Commissioner Werenicz indicated he perceived it would not be a good,
idea to allow additional center signage for this shopping center right
in the middle of a moratorium on center signage on the other end of
town.
25 The hearing was closed at 11 : 15 P.M. for Commission consideration of a .
2.6. recommendation to the Council.
27 The general consensus was that anything which was done in the way of
28 additional signage for the center should be done as part of a uniform
29 signage plan and not done piecemeal as had always been the practice up
30 to now.
31 Commissioner Brownell said he sympathized with the tenants in the
32 center wh-- certainly had very little sight visibility from either
33 Highway 88 or Kenzie Terrace. He said he could see where the
34 applicants could answer #1 and #3 of the questions on the application
35 in the affirmative but had a hard time seeing where #2 could be viable
36 with a volunteer sign program, which might result in only two or three
37 tenants being listed on the sign.
38 The Chair reported the two absent Commissioners had indicated their
39 opposition to the sign when they had called to tell him they would not
40 be at the hearing.
41 Commission Recommendation
Motion by Werenicz, seconded by Madden to recommend Council denial of
the request from the Eberhardt Company for a variance from the City
Sign Ordinance allowance of only one identification sign per shopping
�- 18
center which would allow the installation of a tenant directory wall
sign on the northwest of the northernmost building in the St. Anthony
Shopping Center facing Kenzie Terrace, finding that:
4 1. Problems with signage in the center in the past have demonstrated
5 a need for a more firm commitment on the part of the center
6 owners for a unified sign policy for the shopping center.
7 2. Condition #2 in the Petition for Sign Variance stating that a
8 particular hardship to the applicant would result if the strict
9 letter of the regulations are adhered to which is required to be
10 answered in the affirmative, does not seem to apply in this case
11 where it appears there would only be minimal tenant participation
12 in the sign project.
13 Motion carried unanimously.
14 ADJOURNMENT
15 Motion by Madden, seconded by Brownell to adjourn the meeting at 11 : 25
16 P.M.
17 Motion carried unanimously.
8 Respectfully submitted,
19 Helen Crowe, Secretary
20 :cjk
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