HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL AGENDA 12201988 (2) Meeting Sheet
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Document: PL AGENDA 12301988
• C=TY O F S T . ANTHONY
PLANN=NG COMM= Ss =_ON MZ?vUTES
D E C EMB E R 20 3- 988
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2 The meeting was opened at 7: 30 P.M. with the Pledge of Allegiance led
3 by Chair Wagner.
4 ROLL CALL
5 Present for roll call: Brownell, London; Franzese, Hansen, Wagner,
6 Werenicz , Madden.
7 Absent: none.
8 Also present: David Childs, City Manager.
9 NOVEMBER 15, 1988 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
10 Motion by Brownell, seconded by Werenicz to approve the above with the
11 following changes:
Page 5, line 32: correct typo "facia" .
3 Page 12, line 10: Substitute "west" for "east" .
14 Page 13 , line 40: Substitute "No one was present" for "No one" .
15 Motion carried unanimously.
16 CHAIR WAGNER WILL REPRESENT PLANNING COMMISSION AT CITY COUNCIL MEETING
17 THE FOLLOWING EVENING.
18 UNFINISHED BUSINESS
19 Revised Signage for 3055 Old Highway 8 Accepted by Commissioners
20 At 7:40 P.M. the Chair reconvened the public hearing on the sign
21 variance requested for signage at the above location by R. L. Johnson
22 Investment Co. Their application had been laid over at the Commission's
23 November 15th meeting for further consultation between the applicants
24 and City staff to evaluate the size of the proposed freestanding sign
25 to determine if a smaller sign might be as effective. The applicants
26 had also been requested to provide further information about the exact
27 location of the sign in respect to its possible visual obstruction
28 of traffic coming off Highway 88.
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1 Staff Report - Mr. Childs
2 The City Manager reported that he had not been at the November 15th
04 hearing on the variance for a freestanding sign to identify new tenants
in what was formerly the Medtronics building, but he had concluded from
5 reading the minutes of the hearing that the Commissioners had requested
6 the building management and sign company representatives who had
7 requested the signage to take another look at the size and the height
8 to see if a sign smaller than 118 square feet would also work for them.
9 He indicated that was what they had done and the new plans in.the agenda
10 packet represented a sign with a 20% reduction in sign surface area and
it a total height of 8 feet, 6 inches as compared to the almost 12 foot
12 high sign originally proposed. The above information had been reported
13 in Mr. Childs' December 14th memorandum to the Commissioners in which
14 he had also indicated he thought the trade off of the sign proposed that
15 evening for the wall signs which the Sign Code allowed on that building
16 to be a good one. He had also emphasized the importance of including
17 that fact in any motion of approval to avoid confusion in the future
18 because those minutes "will be our corporate memory long after those of
19 us present this evening are no longer involved in City planning. " Mr.
20 Childs also drew attention to the site map in their agenda packet which
21 illustrated the sign's relationship to the two plywood signs currently
22 on the site. He pointed out that the new sign would be sited almost 80
23 feet from the shoulder and 85 feet from the curb on Highway 88. The
24 City Manager reported conversations with Mr. Youngquist had indicated
25 the building manager felt any sign smaller than the one they were now
26 proposing would not be feasible because it would lose its impact from
27 the highway.
When Commissioner Hansen asked Mr. Childs what he meant when he called
Z9 the existing signage illegal, the City Manager explained that one of the
30 "for lease" signs the building managers had erected had been legal, but
31 the identification sign was non-conforming to the sign code and had been
32 the impetus for the variance process.
33 Proponents - Charles Youngquist of R. L. Johnson Investment and Barbara
34 Pitcher of Nordquist Sign Company
35 Mr. Youngquist indicated he perceived the revisions they had made in the
36 signage would achieve not only their own needs for recognition from the
37 highway but would also address the concerns the Commissioners had
38 expressed during the first hearing. He pointed to the proposed sign's
39 location on the site plans in relation to the intersection of Highway
40 88 and Old Highway 8, saying there would have to be considerable
41 stacking before the sign could interfere with the visibility of drivers
42 on Highway 88.
43 Commissioner Brownell told him it was hard to see the plywood signs if
44 a driver is southbound on Highway 88 because of the rows of cedar trees
45 which screen the east side of the building or the row of Russian Olive
46 trees along the parking lot. The building manager indicated the sign
47 siting had been based on the visual sighting the sign company
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1 representative had made by driving back and forth along the highway in
2 front of the building.
W4Commissioner Brownell asked how much total signage would be on the
building after the monument sign is erected. Mr. Youngquist answered
5 that the proposed sign would for the most part be the sign to identify
6 the major tenants in the building. The only additional signage
7 contemplated would be at the main entrance to the building off Old
8 Highway 8 where the name of the only tenant in the building now,
9 StratigCare, appears in vinyl lettering on one side of the doorway. The
10 building manager indicated the names of other future tenants might be
11 produced in a similar manner on the other side of the door. However,
12 Mr. Youngquist said, until the proposed new sign goes up his firm
13 perceives a need to retain the 40 foot long, 2-1/2 foot wide leasing
14 banner they now have on the building tower.
15 Commissioner Hansen told Ms. Pitcher he was somewhat concerned about
16 having a nine foot wide sign abutting a residential neighborhood because
17 several of those residents had called him indicating that among other
18 things one of their main concerns was the sign lighting at night. He
19 said he had a hard time finding a sign of the same magnitude on any
20 other City facility "except maybe the new City sign which had just been
21 erected. "
22 Mr. Youngquist told him he was certain the high school identification
23 sign just east of City Hall was at least 9 feet wide and almost 8 feet
24 tall and said that sign only had to be read from cars going 30 miles an
25 hour while a sign on Highway 88 would have to be read by drivers going
08 6 up to 55 miles an hour. The TCF sign on Silver Lake Road and the
Apache Medical Building sign on Stinson Boulevard were also cited as
examples of non-conforming signs for which variances had been granted.
29 Ms. Pitcher pointed out that the proposed sign would have a dark
30 background with light copy which would be lit "with as low emission of
31 light as you can get. " The sign company representative said she
32 perceived that type of sign should be a lot more subtle and professional
33 than having black copy on a white background.
34 Mr. Youngquist indicated that although the building had a potential for
35 six tenants, only the main tenant and four others would be listed on the
36 sign and any additional tenants would have to be listed on the directory
37 in the lobby.
38 Commissioner Madden said he had noticed the ground where the sign was
39 proposed to be erected was sloping quite a bit towards the highway and
40 he wondered if that slope had been included in the applicant's
41 estimation of the base size or if the slope would be evened out for the
42 base. Mr. Youngquist said he was certain that as a result of the
43 installation there would have to be some soil restoration done in the
44 ground around the sign. He added that one of the reasons they had gone
45 with a three foot base had been to compensate for and prevent the sign
46 copy from being obscured by snow cover in the winter time. However, he
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1 assured the Commissioner that there would be no more than three feet
2 from the bottom of the sign to the ground level.
V4The building manager told Commissioner Werenicz he thought the norm of
regular hours of operation for the tenants would probably be from 7:30
5 A.M. to 5:30 P.M. but from the standpoint of his firm marketing vacant
6 space, it would be more beneficial to have the sign lit until 9:00 or
7 10:00 P.M. He reiterated that the sign would be facing the highway and
8 its lighting directed away from the residences west of the building.
9 Mr. Childs said he thought having it only interior lighted would direct
10 less light towards the homes than having a spotlight shining on the
11 sign itself.
12 Commissioner Hansen conceded that the sign would probably direct less
13 light than a sunset would towards the homes but said he thought what the
14 residents who had called him were objecting to the most was having a
15 large sign staring at them when they are sitting out on their decks.
16 Commissioner Franzese asked whether the investment company had
17 researched whether it wouldn't be better to highlight the name of the
18 building as the St. Anthony Business Center rather than the names of
19 tenants who would probably change often. Mr. Youngquist admitted "no
20 exhaustive research" had been done on that point but the reason the
21 building name had been included in the copy had been because his firm
22 wanted to tie the building identification in with the community so
23 people would know it was no longer the Medtronics Building.
24 There was no one present to speak against the variance and the Chair
40 5 closed the hearing at 8:03 P.M. for Commission reaction to the proposal.
6 Chair Wagner indicated he would rather see the sign in its reduced size
27 than he would signs all over the building in different sizes, shapes
28 and colors as allowed by the City Sign Code. He said he thought the
29 proposed sign was a dignified way of identifying the tenants in the
30 building and with only limited lettering at the entrance, the building
31 would look very professional.
32 Mr. Childs told Commissioner Brownell that just as had happened at
33 Apache, once the City has granted a variance for the proposed signage
34 in lieu of permitted wall signage, the tenants would have no legal
35 grounds for seeking individual wall identification but could have window
36 signs the same as the Apache merchants do now. He said it would be up
37 to the building owner to inform the tenants about that through the
38 leases. The City Manager said he perceived the way the managers would
39 provide identification for the building tenants would be by listing the
40 larger ones on the sign and the smaller on the directory as Mr.
41 Youngquist had testified they do in other buildings they manage. He
42 pointed out that the signage the major tenant would be allowed on the
43 building was 150 square feet, which they would be allowed to retain
44 along with wall signs for other tenants depending on the space they
45 rented if the freestanding sign wasn't allowed.
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1 Commissioner Madden said he was also pleased with the reduction of the
2 sign's size from what was proposed last month and that there would be
3 adequate distance between the sign and the two abutting roadways. The
* Commissioner added that he certainly preferred this ' sign to the two new
5 signs which had been recently erected on the City's Stonehouse which he
6 stated were in his estimation "very tacky and set a poor example for
7 private industry. "
8 Commission Recommendation
9 Motion by Franzese, seconded by Madden to recommend the City Council
10 grant the request from R. L. Johnson Investment for a variance from
11 the sign regulations of the City code which would allow the installation
12 of a free standing sign at 3055 Old Highway 8 in accordance with the
13 specifications for a 9 foot X 5 foot, 6 inch sign with a three foot tall
14 base (overall height of 8 feet, 6 inches) in the location proposed by
15 the applicant during the continuance of the public hearing on the
16 proposal conducted by the Planning Commission, December 20, 1988. The
17 Commission further recommends the variance- be granted upon the condition
18 that:
19 1. the proposed sign would be in lieu of all other permitted wall signs
20 provided for that building in the City Ordinance;
21 2. all current leasing and identification signs and banners on and next
22 to the building be removed as soon as the permanent signage is
23 positioned, sometime around March 1st; and
40 4 3 . all sign lighting be turned off by 10:00 P.M.
5 In recommending the variance be granted, the Planning Commission finds
26 that:
27 a. the new proposal appears to address the concerns of the residents who
28 live near the building which had been communicated to Commissioner
29 Hansen;
30 b. all three conditions which are statutorily required to be satisfied
31 have been satisfactorily addressed with the revised signage proposal.
32 Motion carried unanimously.
33 Massage School and Therapy Center, 2504 - 39th Avenue N.E. Approved
34 Subject to Conditions
35 At 8:19 P.M. the Chair opened the public hearing to consider the
36 application from Grace Cooney for a conditional use permit to allow the
37 operation of a school of massage and therapeutic massage treatments in
38 a Commercial "C" zoning classification, in the Apache Squares Building
39 just west of the Apache Plaza mall.
• 5
1 Chair Wagner read aloud the Notice of the Hearing which had been
2 published in the December 7th Bulletin and sent to all property owners
3 of record within 350 feet of the subject property. None of these were
W5present to report failure to receive the notice or to object to its
content or to the permit itself.
6 Staff Report - Mr. Childs
7 The City Manager in his December 14th memorandum to the Commissioners
8 had drawn comparisons between this proposal and the permit issued to
9 Rehab Dynamics in March, 1988. He indicated that because the new
10 facility would not be in the Apache Medical complex but rather in a
11 small shopping center and the applicant's hours of operation appear to
12 be later in the day, he perceived there might be a need for modifying
13 the hours of operation somewhat in respect to that condition but
14 recommended the other two conditions be repeated with this permit.
15 The City Manager indicated further that:
16 *the applicant had also indicated a willingness to abide by the code
17 of conduct provided by the American Massage Therapy Association which
18 was one of the conditions imposed on Rehab Dynamics;
19 *the minutes of the meetings which dealt with the Apache Medical
20 facility had been included in the Commissioners' agenda packet for
21 reference;
22 *the packet had also included Ms. Cooney's application in which she
had specifically addressed the three conditions statutorily required
to be satisfied before a conditional use permit can be authorized;
25 *the only call staff had received in response to the Notice of the
2.6 Hearing had been from Mr. Cavanaugh, President of C. G. Rein Company,
27 the Apache managers, who had just wanted further information regarding
28 the proposed facility but had no objections to it once Mr. Childs had
29 explained what the permit entailed;
30 *told Commissioner Franzese staff had received no complaints
31 related to the Rehab Dynamics facility.
32 Proponents - Grace Cooney and her husband, Mike, 12940 Overlook Road,
33 Dayton, MN
34 Ms. Cooney:
35 >reiterated much of the information contained in the November 29th
36 letter attached to her application in the Commission agenda packets
37 along with other documents indicating more about her school and
38 professional standing;
39 >reported both her business and students in the Touch of Life School
40 of Massage she operated out of her home at the above address had
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1 increased to the point where she needed more space, especially office
2 space, than was available in her home;
•3 >told Chair Wagner she had found affordable space in the new Apache
4 Squares building which she had picked because 1) she had lived at two
5 New Brighton locations since 1969 before she moved to Dayton and knew
6 the area well and 2) due to the fact that there were no massage
7 schools in the suburbs where there were many in Minneapolis;
8 >indicated she would like to continue to teach students massage for
9 their own use on family or friends or to seek employment in
10 chiropractic clinics, health clubs, or beauty shops where therapeutic
11 massage services are offered;
12 >said in addition to her school, she would like to be able to offer
13 therapeutic massage treatments on an individual basis in her new
14 location during the day and after work up until a little after 7:00
15 P.M. However, because the four hour classes she offers once a week
16 don't end until 10:00 P.M. , she would need permission to keep the
17 business open to 10: 00 P.M.
18 >the massage school director described the qualifications for
19 receiving a certificate from her school, indicating that there are
20 no state rules for licensing or certification in that field. She
21 indicated 13 states do license and require from 200 to 1 ,000 hours of
22 class time for certification, which her school could not grant because
23 her basic class is for only 45 hours;
24 >told Commissioner Werenicz that although her primary business in the
past had been her massage school, she now wanted to be able to offer
6 massages which would help pay the rent at the new location;
27 >said she would use her students to give the massages and envisioned
28 having only one besides herself to start out with but at the most
29 would use two other massagers at this location;
30 >indicated she would probably not want to offer massage appointments
31 much after 6:00 P.M. on nights she wasn't conducting classes;
32 >indicated she only had 8 students in her Dayton facility now and
33 anticipated growing into only 20 for her new offices;
34 >told Commissioner Franzese that if there was a demand for massage
35 treatments on the weekends she would like to offer them but only on
36 Saturdays until noon;
37 >said the only time she would be open on Sundays would be for the
38 seminars she now holds twice a year on subjects like sports massages
39 which are conducted by a lecturer from out of state and for an
40 occasional weekend workshop which she conducts from 9:00 A.M. to 6:00
41 P.M.
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1 When Chair Wagner pointed out that the hours of operation for Rehab
2 Dynamics had been restricted to only Medicare approved times which
3 probably wouldn't extend into the evening hours, Ms. Cooney indicated
•4 it would be very important for her to be able to hold classes in the
5 evenings to accommodate students who worked during the day. She said
6 she saw no reason for conducting massage treatments after 10:00 P.M. and
7 agreed not to hold seminars on Sunday before noon. The school director
8 said she had no problem with the other conditions the City had imposed
9 on Rehab Dynamics and reiterated that she also was a member of the
10 American Massage Therapy Association, as indicated in the copy of
11 the certificate in the agenda packet, and would be complying with the
12 standards of conduct they had established.
13 There being no one else present to speak for or against the permit the
14 hearing was closed at 8: 31 P.M. for Commission discussion.
15 The Chair told Commissioner Franzese he perceived the City would want
16 to continue to impose conditions on this type of activity in the City
17 and would therefore not want to make therapeutic treatment centers
18 permitted uses over which the City had no control. Mr. Childs pointed
19 out that if the application had only been for a massage school, no
20 permit would have been necessary because a school would have already
21 been a permitted use in that zoning district, but the City Attorney had
22 recommended that a more restrictive approach be taken regarding
23 therapeutic massage treatment centers. It was noted that one of the
24 other tenants in that same building, Domino's Pizza, stayed open late
25 most nights for pick up and phone delivery service.
406 Commissioner Madden indicated he could see no reason for treating this
7 business any differently than any other business which operates in the
8 City on Sundays. The consensus was that the hours of operation for
29 Rehab Dynamics had been restricted to the hours it had only because
30 those were the hours the applicant had asked for. Commissioner
31 Werenicz' concerns about allowing massage treatments much past 10:00
32 P.M. were accepted in view of the fact that the applicant had indicated
33 her classes would be out by then and the fact that Ms. Cooney had
34 indicated she didn't intend to take appointments for massage treatments
35 past 6:00 P.M. and at the latest they would be finished shortly after
36 7:00 P.M. The Commissioners concurred that the second condition
37 imposed on the Apache Medical Building massage treatment facility
38 should provide the necessary safeguards against any illegal activities.
39 The maker of the following motion said the documents in the agenda
40 packet attesting to the applicant's reputation and professional training
41 as well as her stated intent to comply with the code of ethics of the
42 massage association had convinced him that concerns which might be
43 valid for other treatment centers of the same nature should be no
44 problem with this particular facility. Commissioner Hansen also pointed
45 out that he was recommending the permit be issued only to Ms. Cooney,
46 Director of the school which would assure that the permit couldn't be
47 transferred to another owner. There were no Commission objections to
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1 restricting the Sunday hours of operation to noon when the Apache Mall
2 opened.
•3 Commission Recommendation
4 Motion by Hansen, seconded by Brownell to recommend the City Council
5 grant the Touch of' Life School of Massage, Grace Cooney, Director, the
6 requested conditional use permit for the purpose of providing a
7 therapeutic massage as well as instruction in such at 2504 - 39th Avenue
8 N.E. (Apache Squares Building, just west of the main Apache Plaza mall )
9 which is in a commercial "C" zoning classification.
10 The Planning Commission further recommends the permit be granted only
11 under the following conditions:
12 1. hours of operation would be restricted to from 8:00 A.M. to 10:00
13 P.M. , Monday through Saturday and noon to 6:00 P.M. on Sunday;
14 2. the permit would be automatically revoked if there is any violation
15 of applicable City or state statutes related to criminal sexual
16 conduct by any person associated with the operation;
17 3. the massage therapy and training offered in this center must comply
18 with the code of ethics and definition of massage therapy established
19 by the American Massage Therapy Association which had been provided
20 by the applicant.
21 In recommending this permit be granted, the Planning Commission finds
40 2 that:
3 a. there was no opposition to the permit demonstrated either before or
24 during the Commission's December 20, 1988 hearing; and
25 b. all three conditions statutorily required to be satisfied before a
26 conditional use permit may be authorized appear to have been met with
27 this application.
28 Motion carried unanimously.
29 After the applicant had left, Commissioner Brownell reported he had
30 called Dayton and talked to the City Administrator and the Clerk who
31 had both reported having no problems with Ms. Cooney's operation in
32 their community.
33 The City Manager then updated the Commissioners on the curb cut for the
34 Kenzington Apartments of St. Anthony project for which the redevelopers
35 had resited some buildings so only 37 of the underground parking stalls
36 in the senior building would use that driveway for exiting onto Kenzie
37 Terrace. He said the final plans would be submitted and the closing
38 scheduled for January 10th not December 22nd as originally thought
39 because Lang/Nelson had become very concerned about having all tenants
40 physically out of the project property before they purchased it from
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1 the City without their being indemnified against problems which they
2 envisioned might occur if all the property wasn't vacant before the
3 closing. He assured the Commissioners that all the. remaining tenants
•4 had signed agreements, to vacate the property before the 10th.
5 Mr. Childs indicated one of these businesses, Slick's Alternative, would
6 be appearing before the Commission at their January 17th meeting to seek
7 a conditional use permit to operate their facility next to the Salvation
8 Army store in the same building as the Country Store.
9 ADJOURNPU MT
10 Holiday greetings were exchanged before the following:
it Motion by Madden, seconded by Franzese to adjourn the Planning
12 Commission meeting at 9:00 P.M.
13 Motion carried unanimously.
14 Respectfully submitted,
15 Helen Crowe, Secretary
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