HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL MINUTES 11181980 Meeting Sheet
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BOX: 21
Folder: PL MINUTES AND AGENDAS 1980
Document: PL MINUTES 11181980
CITY OF ST. ANTHONY
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
• November 18, 1980
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 P.M. by Chairman Bjorklund.
Present Ifor roll. call: Peterson, Jones., Bjorklund, Sopcinski,
Enrooth and Makowske.
Absent': Bowerman.
Also present: Ron Berg, Administrative Assistant.
The following corrections were made to minutes for the Commission
October 21st meeting:
Page 1, para. 3 : Eliminate "part" following "intermittently" .
Page 2 , para. 5 : Eliminate reference to Councilman Marks '
presence at the meeting, since he did not
participate.
Page 8, para. 3 : ."Mr. Enrooth called the question" should be
added before the voting on the question.
Page 8, para. 8 : All references to Ruth Tetzen should indicate she
• is Mr. Saliterman's "representative" rather than
"secretary" .
Motion by Mr. Enrooth and seconded by Mr. Sopcinski to approve as
corrected the minutes for the Planning Commission meeting held
October 28 , 1980 .
Motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Berg answered questions regarding the sign in front of the newly
approved barber-'beauty shop at 3909 Silver Lake Road by saying such
a temporary 14 day sign is allowable under the City ordinance and
that a temporary 14 day permit had been issued.
Mr. Doug Jones will represent the Commission at the Council 's
December 9th meeting.
At 7 : 35 P.M. , Chairman Bjorklund opened the public hearing on the
proposed amendment to permit video tapes sales and rentals as a Con-
ditional Use in a C, commercial district, under the City Zoning
Ordinance by reading the notice of the hearing which had been
published November 13th. He then directed that discussions should
be limited to the intent of the hearing which is to consider "video
tapes and sales and rentals" as a permitted Conditional Use. Mr. Berg
emphasized a differentiation must be made between the shops themselves
• and what is sold or rented within them, with pornographic material a
different and complex issue. He said he was in agreement with the
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recommendation of the City Attorney, made in his memorandum of
October 17th, 1980 , that video sales and rentals should become a
• permitted conditional use under the Zoning Ordinance with conditions
dealing with the sale of obscene material attached to the use.
Mr. Berg told Mrs . Makowske a conditional, rather. than a permitted,
use will give the City more leverage to control the use. Mrs.
Makowske wondered if the video store might not question whether they
are being discriminated against if their use is different than a
garment shop in the same commercial area.
The Administrative Assistant .told Mr. Sopcinski the City does not
now have a law dealing with obscene materials but could develop an
ordinance dealing with that aspect of commercial use as suggested
by Mr. Soth. The Planning Commission would be involved in any such
development if it pertains to land use. However, he added, the City
ordinance would .probably have no more effect on this type of operation
than the state statutes as had also been pointed out in the legal
assessment by the City Attorney.
When the Chairman asked why the store was operating in Apache
without permission from the City, Mr. Berg told him he had only
recently found out the store was open and from the City Attorney 's
opinion on the question, that the business could probably not be
prohibited from operating. He said the City had started action on
the ordinance amendment when the owner of a similar store to that
which had opened in Apache, without City permission, had come to him
several weeks ago seeking to locate in the St. Anthony Shopping
• Center.
Mr. Jones raised the question of whether this case is not similar to
the one where a print shop was not added as a permitted conditional
use in a B., service office district, through an amendment of the
zoning ordinance because the Council had decided the print shop should
remain as permitted uses only in LI , light industrial districts.
Mr. Berg added that that decision was also based on other criteria
such as problems with adequate parking being provided.
When Mrs. Makowske asked whether the City could develop an ordinance
which would be more strict than state statutes regarding obscene
materials , Mr. Berg stated that, in great part, state statutes on
this matter had evolved through court decisions, and if a more
restrictive ordinance was challenged to its end, it would probably
be heard all the way to the Supreme Court.
Mr. Soth' s October 17th comments regarding the lengths to which a
city may' go in legislating the distribution of obscene materials to
minors were quoted for her including his statement that "it is not
clear whether the City could legally impose a penalty greater than
the state penalty for the same offense" . He had also advised that
"the amendment could not be denied on the grounds that obscene
materials may be sold or rented" at the store because "this would
clearly be an unconditional prior restraint" .
• More than 30 people were present to give input regarding the proposed
amendment, with all who spoke expressing their opposition to the
amendment because of X-rated material they felt was normally associated
with such stores.
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Elie Dubay, 3012 32nd Avenue N.E. , complimented the. Planning Commission
• on the questions -they had raised regarding the video store operation
and "their prior record of providing for the betterment of the
community" . He saw a precedent being set by the City in the instance
of the print shop and was. certain. "the City. would, and rightfully
so, prevent him from erecting a- pole building in his backyard because
it would be detrimental to -the .neighborhood" . His experience with
the precinct caucus convinced him that the people of St. Anthony
are concerned how their tax monies are spent and believed the
expenditure of funds to pass this ordinance and the increased law
enforcement costs he -saw connected to the store as "bad money spending
and- bad news for the children of the community" . The Chairman told
Mr. Dubay the City Attorney has estimated it will cost money no
matter which way the decision goes.
Mr. Berg stated he was not advocating obscenity but again emphasized
the importance of differentiating between the video. sales and rentals
and speculation as to what type of materials will, in fact, be
distributed.
Charlotte Olson, 3412 Skycroft Drive N.E. , inquired whether the
proprietor of the store in question had been asked whether he was
dealing in obscene materials and Mr. . Berg said the - owner had been
contacted and said he would sell no x-rated materials at the store ,
except by -catalog, with home mail delivery. Mrs. Olson said she
had observed the "Adult Store' s" operation and noted the only
• customers were "young men viewing a -film in a back corner" . She was
concerned about having this type of store in a center which is
frequented by young families and wondered why "we'd even consider a
conditional use permit for this operation" . She read from a paper
(she did .not identify)_ which claimed the Supreme Court decision in
1973 , by 5 to 4, ruled "obscenity is not approved by the First Amend-
ment to the Constitution" . She *saw this store as both harmful to the
City' s quality of life and to the total community environment. She
insisted there is no scientific evidence required to prove obscene
material causes crime and was concerned that, under the prevailing
high school policy, the materials distributed through this store
will find their way into the schools for discussion. She concluded
by saying "It is easier to stop it now than later" . , which drew
loud applause from those present.
Bob Lohman, 2512 St. Anthony Road, "a long time resident who runs a
men's clothing store on Central" told .of the success citizen pressure
on the business community along with police harassment had in getting
rid of a "head shop" and "Adult Book Store" near his store. He
suggested the same pressure be put -on Apache merchants and management.
Mr. Berg reiterated that the type of materials sold in the store
should be a separate issue from the amendment. but also said the Center
landlord was against the sale of such materials which the store
proprietor also insists are not being sold.
Mr. Sopcinski wondered why "when everyone is against such an operation,
they do such a thriving business?" . He saw- it as up to:_the citizens
to put the pressure on the business community and to organize a boycott
t� �s
if necessary, but did not see the assumption that obscene materials
• will be sold as a valid. reason for denial of the amendment. He and
Mr. Enrooth .wanted specific reasons for denial attached, as in the
past, to any negative recommendation.
Jean Paron., 3133 Silver Lake Road, a substitute teacher at Wilshire
school and the mother of two small children., said she likes to take
her children to shop at Apache but is concerned "what type of people
will be drawn to this store for the catalog sales of x-rated
materials" . She wanted the store closed until a decision is made on
the obscenity ordinance.
Gary Wilmar, 2700 North Oxford Street-, said as the principal of
St. Charles Elementary School, he is concerned how minors will be
prevented from viewing the obscene .films and believed "the environment
of Apache should reflect that of the community" . He said he was
unable-to answer Mrs. Olson' s concerns about the public school but
"felt the school officials might be concerned if a teacher were to
use this type of materials in a classroom" .
Wallace Rogers, 3408 Downers Drive, said- he had visited the store in
Apache and been told he could get "anything he wanted" . He said he
witnessed 13 year olds watching the films.. He assumed that if the
Commission represents- the community "you must certainly be against
such an operation" . He didn' t believe they "should be bound by any
legal opinion to pass an amendment which will not be in the interest
of the community" . He replied to the Chairman's question by saying
• he would be willing, as a taxpayer, toaccept the expenditure of tax
monies to support a decision of denial of the amendment.
Mr. Dubay added that he believed "this type of operation will lower
the property values in St. Anthony" and he "doesn 't care. whether the
State or Minneapolis follows our example in denying the operation" .
He then commented that he didn' t see such stores in Edina or other
communities of that type.
David Debbins , 3630 Benjamin Street N.E. , cited two major, violent
crimes involving Roseville residents which were "directly associated
with video tapes" and believed there is a definite potential for
incitement of crimes against persons in the proposed catalog sales.
He theorized that the City might lose tax revenues of merchants were
forced from Apache by a boycott.
Albert Haik, 2916 Hilldale Avenue N.E. , was opposed to the Conditional
Use permit for this type of operation.
John Dubay, Elie. Dubay ' s son,who lives at home, said he has witnessed
the .influence such pornographic materials have on young men he works
with in a sheet metal shop. He said he quit one such job when he
became "sick of hearing nothing but sex, sex, sex, all day" . He
was also convinced there is a direct association with the use of
marijuana by such youths.
•
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Mary Ann McNeil, 3500 31st Avenue N.E.., told the Commission she
strongly opposes the amendment and asked whether a .petition by the
• residents would be in order_. . She was advised by the Chairman that
the more input from taxpayers, the City officials get, the better
able they are to make decisions.
Paul Gabler, 2921 Hilldale .Avenue N.E. promised "his family won't
spend another penny. in Apache and I ' ll lobby all my friends and
relatives not to go there either .as longus the store is there".
The meeting was recessed at 8 :50 P.M. and resumed at .9 : 00 P.M. when
Elie Dubay noted "not a person present had spoken in, favor of the
amendment" . It was then agreed that the Commission recommendations
would be made during the Council ' s December 9th, rather than the
November 20th meeting, because of the difficulty of getting the
minutes out in one day.
The hearing was closed at 9 : 05 P.M.
Mrs. Makowske asked whether staff had determined whether the owner
of the store in Apache owns other shops of a. similar nature. Mr. Berg
stated he was not aware of any. The Chairman also wanted the staff
to research the question of. how such stores are working out in other
communities, believing there were many unanswered questions on
whether such operations increase vacancies in the .shopping centers
in which they are located; increase the criminal elements in these
• areas;. cause a decline in either the. quality of life of those
neighborhoods or of tax revenues for the municipalities as well as
whether the contention that obscene materials is not approved by the
First _ Amendment is valid.
Mr. Jones questioned why a use not permitted in the City Zoning
Ordinance has been allowed to continue, believing there is a re-
curring problem of businesses ignorning the City' s statutes. He
believed the City staff "has to take a tough stand and that police
should close down on the offending business until the Council has
made a decision on the amendment" . Mr'. Berg said, that normally,
depending on the situation, the City's practice has been to allow
a business 30 days to vacate after a letter is written by the City
Attorney demanding such vacation.
Mr. Sopcinski said the legal advisory had convinced him that the
City is not allowed to deny the sale of video tapes , recordings, etc. ,
but the law doesn 't specify what controls youmay have over- the
materials . He favored allowing "video tape sales and rentals" as
a Conditional Use with an investigation to follow of areas of control
possible for the types of materials associated with this operation,
which could be a lengthy process , but the City would not be denying
all video sales and rentals .
Mr.. Jones pointed out that in the case of the print shop, "the Council
did not. deny the print shop but just didn't modify the ordinance to
• include it as a use in a residential district" . Mrs. Makowske
ti
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believed the fact the proponents were not present to- answer questions
• "should. be weighed heavily in a-decision as should the question of
whether the owner of the store. is at all interested in the community" .
Mr. Berg told .her he had spoken to the owner and advised him the
normal- procedure.-would be to .have- him file a petition for a Condi-
tional Use permit for the operation as soon as the amendment is passed.
Chairman Bjorklund saw too many unanswered questions for a recom-
mendation. of approval.: of the amendment but. Mr. Sopcinski believed the
only basic question involved "whether to permit *the, sale and rental
of video tapes as a Conditional. Use under the ordinance" . He was
concerned denying the amendment would prevent the distribution of many
beneficial types of video tapes to the community- and cited instances
such as school and business use of this media. He favored modifica-
tion of the ordinance with restrictions -as to the type of materials
to be distributed to be addressed by the Council and. the business
community.
Mr. Enrooth believed denial .would be "unfair restriction of trade"
and wanted reasons for not recommending approval to be included with
any motion.
Motion by Mr. Jones and seconded by Mr. Peterson to recommend the
Council. take no action on modification of the City Zoning Ordinance
as presented, finding- that, there was significant public opposition
to the "video tape sales and rental stores" . No proponent appeared
in support of this proposal, and, for the Commission to act on this
• proposal would require significant additional information.
Motion carried unanimously.
Motion by Chairman Bjorklund and seconded by Mr. Sopcinski to commend
Helen Crowe for the job she did on condensing and assembling the
twelve pages -of minutes generated. by the October 21st Commission
meeting.
Motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Sopcinski expressed his concern that the Council had not followed
the Commission's recommendation .of denial of the Allguire variance
request since by the applicant's own admission the need for a
variance had resulted from her own errors in remodeling an already
habitable residence. He believed the. Commission had tried to be
consistent in their deliberations and decisions regarding such
variances and their effect on the neighborhood and was only follow-
ing. staff' s concern over the "number of front yard variances being
granted" . He felt the Commission' s "efforts to be- part of the-team
with the Council and staff might been eroded" . Mr. Peterson agreed
with these assumptions. ----- -- -
Mr. Berg advised the Commission that, as in the past, there would be
a special .Commission hearing called soon, to decide on the Community
__- _ _- Dev_elopment Block Grant funds designations.
• He then distributed- copies of the proposed Sign Ordinance which he
.said were complete with the exception of .two or three pages address-
ing a comprehensive sign policy for the commercial district and a
small. portion dealing with signs in a "C" district. The missing
material will be sent to the Commission members this week. It was
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agreed that formal consideration will be delayed. .until the January
meeting and that the first discussion should be- limited to the basic
outline of the ordinance with specific items. to be taken individually
during later meetings .
The Chairman urged the Commission to make their personal decisions
as to whether they want to continue their service on. the Commission
next year since- reappointments will be made by the Council in
January.
Mrs . Makowske complimented Mr. Bjorklund for-,.the fine job he has
done in the past year as Chairman.
He .(.the Chairman) also wondered.. whether they were in' favor of the
Chair taking measures to shorten the meetings, acknowledging at
the same time, the importance of not losing important input from
residents and members. Several Commission members agreed that citizen
input had, on_ several occasions, altered the preconceived opinions
they had regarding' proposals . considered in the past.. Mr. Sopcinski
believed the members themselves could exert some control over the
flows of conversation between themselves in many instances .
Members will indicate to Mr. Berg by Wednesday, November 26th,
their interest in attending the planning seminars to be held
December 12th and 13th.
• Motion by Mr. Enrooth and seconded by Mr. Sopcinski to adjourn the
meeting at 10: 10 P.M.
Motion carried unanimously.
Respectfully submitted,
Helen Crowe