HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL MINUTES 10051982 Meeting Sheet
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BOX: 21
Folder: PL MINUTES AND AGENDAS 1982
Document: PL MINUTES 10051982
CITY OF ST. ANTHONY
• PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
October 5 , 1982
The meeting was called to order by Chairman Jones at 7 : 37 P.M.
Present for roll call: Zawislak, Bowerman, Makowske, Jones , .
Peterson and Sopcinski .
Absent: Bjorklund.
Also present: Ron Berg , Administrative Assistant.
Mrs . Makowske will report the actions and recommendations by the
Commission to the Council at their October 12th meeting.
At 7 :38 P .M. , the - Chairman opened the public hearing on the petition
for a conditional use permit which would allow a 'drive-in facility
to be a part of the proposed. Zantigo Restaurant -to be constructed
on a vacant parcel of land located on the southeast corner of the
Apache Plaza complex at 3900 Silver Lake Road.
Mr. Jones read that portion .of a notice of the hearing pertaining to
the conditional use permit as it had been published in the Bulletin
and sent out . to all property owners within 350 feet of the site. No
one present reported failure to receive the notice or objected to.
• its contents .
Mr. Berg addressed the request for a conditional use as well as for
variances for parking- and signage in his cover letter and he dis-
tributed copies of the site, landscaping and signage plans for the
project for Commission consideration.
Speaking for the proposal were .two representatives of the Zantigo
KFC National Management Co. , 38 Triangle Park Drive, Cincinnati ,
Ohio;, K. C. George , 2640 West -77th Street, Minneapolis; and John
Shavlis of Cincinnati, who were supported in their request by Dennis
Cavanaugh,. Vice President of the C. G. Rein- Company, who manages
Apache.
Por. Shavlis showed the Commission members various photos of prototypes
of the building his firm hopes, to build in St. Anthony.
The proponents told .Chairman. Jones they have no plans for sidewalks
along Silver Lake Road, but their proposal included' a patio area,
concrete approaches to the entrances and- handicapped ramps .
Mr. George confirmed that ,the latest the restaurant would stay open
would be midnight on Friday and. Saturday nights and said it would
close at 11 :00 P .M. during the week. He can foresee no need to keep
the drive-in open later.
• The Zantigo restaurants are all family oriented and no alcoholic
beverages would be served, according .to Mr. George. Mr. Shavlis
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discussed the lighting- plans. for the project and said the two signs
on the building would be illuminated and there would be downlighting
• for the parking area. All lighting would be turned . off when the
restaurant is closed. The traffic flow would be directed in one
direction around the building and Mr. Shavlis estimated there
would never-be more than -five cars stacked up between the order and
pickup stations at one time.
Mr. George estimated between 80 and 90 cars would patronize the
restaurant in a day and the busiest times would be between 11 : 30 A.M.
and 1: 30 P.M. each day. He told Mr. Peterson the weather would
govern the pedestrian traffic from the mall .
According to Mr. Shavlis , only 25 percent of their business is drive
up trade because the type of food they serve,- as opposed to a fast
food hamburger restaurant, is more conducive to customers sitting
down to eat their meal. However, .the =st anyone who drives up
would have to wait for- his meal would be three minutes . The Zantigo
planner told Mr. Sopcinski the Rice Creek Watershed District is
requiring them to construct a weir to take care of the .runoff on the
site and he described the curb construction .to him. All 15 Zantigo
restaurants in the Twin Cities are serviced by thesame snow removal
contractor and there is no slow piling because that- might prove
dangerous to .the customers ' safety, Mr. Shavlis said.
Referring to the Chairman's suggestion that a sidewalk might be
constructed along Silver Lake Road eventually , Mr.. Peterson told the
• petitioners he believes their proposal is geared to the right traffic
since he has observed there are very few residents who walk to Apache
and directing pedestrians to the bridge approach might be dangerous .
Mr-. Cavanaugh assured the Commission members that the restaurant
plans would not interfere with any of. Apache 's .plans for redirecting
traffic in. that area. and management believes the ,restaurant- would
be an asset to the center because it would provide a needed food
service and an upgraded tenant mix.
During the discussion of their landscaping plans , the Zantigo re-
presentatives said the Soo Line had agreed. to their removal of
brush and small trees on their property which would obstruct the view
of the restaurant from Silver Lake Road. There would be no deliveries
or trash hauling while the restaurant is open.
The hearing was closed at .8 : 31 P.M.
Motion by Mrs . Makowske and s.econded .by Mr. Bowerman to recommend
the Council grant a .conditional use permit to Zantigo KFC National
Management Co. , which. would permit a drive-in facility for the
restaurant .they propose to construct on Lot 3 , Block 1, of Apache
Plaza, finding that:
(1) The proposed conditional use is one of the conditional uses
specifically listed for the zoning district in which it is to
• be located.
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(,2) The proposed conditional use will not be detrimental .to the
health , - :saf:ety,, or =genera-L-we_lfare of persons residing or work-
ing in the vicinity or injurious to property values or improve-
ments in the vicinity.
(3) The proposed conditional use .is necessary or desirable at the
above . location to provide .a service .or a facility which is in
the interest of the public convenience and will contribute to
the general welfare ofthe neighborhood or community.
(A) There was no opposition to the proposal demonstrated during
the hearing.
(5) Granting this permit would .seem to be helpful to the economic
welfare of Apache. ,
(.6) It appears an undue hardship would be caused the applicants if
this permit for the drive-in- facility were not granted because
they have indicated this activity accounts for 25 percent of
their business .
(7) The Apache management has indicated siting the restaurant in
this location would not interfere with any road or traffic
pattern improvements they plan for the area in the future.
Motion. carried unanimously.
• At 8 : 35 P .M. , the Chairman opened the second hearing on .the proposal
which was related to the Zantigo request for a -variance from the City
ordinance requirement that 52parking spaces be -provided for drive-
in restaurants of this size and type which would allow Zantigo KFC
to provide only 34 such spaces , or eighteen less than required.
Chairman Jones read the portion of the notice which pertained to this
aspect of the request and no one present reported failure to receive
the notice or objected to its contents .
Mr. Berg explained he had figured. 31 parking spaces would be required
for the building -itself, 13 for the restaurant aspect and 8 for the
number of employees which are anticipated. Mr. Shavlis said no more
than 25. parking spaces have been required for any restaurant they
own because of the nature of their business but they had increased
this number to 34 which they believe should be more . than . adequate
with the parking .which would be available .to them in the adjacent
shopping center lots . Mr. Cavanaugh said although there is no
written agreement with - Zantigo to the effect that such parking would
be available to them, there are no plans to develop any further the
space west of. the restaurant because of problems with visibility.
The only other free standing building the shopping center management
would'- even -consider might be south of the Midwest .Federal Bank build-
ing, and even that site might cause visibility problems for the mall
tenants .
• The Rein executive said it is estimated 250 cars used the western
parking lots near Montgomery Wards and there .is no reason to believe
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the smaller stores which. .are .going -into the space Wards vacated
would ever need that._much- park.ing. He reiterated that when the Apache
management puts. into .effect the 1980 Short-Elliott-Hendrickson study
recommendations for roadway and traffic pattern improvements , those
plans would not interfere with the restaurant's business .
Mr. Sopcinski pointed out that the petitioners had incorrectly
identified the ordinance requirement for parking as 50 spaces and it
was agreed that .this figure should be corrected on the application
to read. 52 . He wanted the Council to know that even though the
Commission-.members seemed to favor the variance for parking spaces ,
they were having a great deal- of- difficulty . relating a recommendation
of approval to the,- conditions which are required to be satisfied
before. the variance is granted.
During the discussion which followed there were many changes made
including the possibility of Zantigo's following the example set by
American Monarch ofmaking an agreement with the Sbo., Line to make
additional land available to .the restaurant if additional parking
is needed.
Mr. Bowerman indicated the problem might lie .with .the ordinance
which was probably developed originally to relate to sites surrounded
by developed properties and not for restaurants which would be
located in ".a sea of blacktop in a shopping center" . He questioned
whether such restrictions had been placed on Vincenzo 's or the
Vietnamese restaurant in the St. Anthony Shopping Center where there
is the same situation of more parking spaces than are even utilized
by the tenants . Mr. Bowerman believes the City should accept the
verbal assurances from the Apache management that there would always
be parking available for Zantigo 's customers in the 2 ,000 or more
parking spaces provided for all the tenants of the center. He
pointed out that the petitioners are already providing 9 more
parking -spaces than their experience with .other restaurants indicate
are necessary and they have raised the question .of whether it would
be good business for them to take on the additional expense of
providing for additional parking which theyare convinced they do
not need. The Planning Commission member added that he personally
would hate to see anymore , greenery in the area converted to blacktop
without a real justification.
Mr. Sopcinski indicated he would have trouble accepting the suggestion
that the stacking space in the drive-in area could be counted as
parking spaces since "the occupants of those .cars never get out" ,
but he could see that .the 1973 ordinance might not have been geared
to this type of restaurant .in thislocation and might not have been
written to anticipate the same. requirements for a fast food restaurant
as for Jax. Mr: Berg .noted ,that the City ordinance would only
require 24 parking spaces for a sit down restaurant.
The hearing was closed- at 9 : 10 P.M.
Motion by Mr. Bowerman and seconded by Mr. Zawislak to recommend the
•
Council grant a variance of. 18 parking spaces where 52 is required
by the City Zoning Ordinance to Zantigo KFC National Management
Company for the restaurant they propose- to- construct on the south-
east .corner of Apache Plaza, finding that:
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(J) The firm's business studies have indicated 25 parking spaces
would be sufficient for-their restaurant but they have never-
theless agreed to provide 34 spaces .
(2) Under a verbal agreement, the landowner, the C. G. Rein Company,
would .provide any additional parking which might be necessary .
(3) . There is .ample .parking immediately adjacent. to- this site to
provide the additional parking to satisfy the ordinance intent,
and it would therefore cause an undue hardship to require
Zantigo KFC Company to provide 18 additional spaces .
(4) Since 25 percent of the restaurant 's business represents a
drive-in facility, vehicles are parked on the site for only
about 5 minutes .
(5) The intent of the ordinance probably never envisioned the
application of the parking requirements. to a shopping center
where ample common parking is provided ,at all times .
(6) The five .parking spaces provided for the drive-up facility were
not considered in the 34 proposed by the petitioners and if they
were accepted as parking spaces , the deficiency in spaces could
be reduced.
Motion carried unanimously.
The third request from the Zantigo Company was considered next.
• This was for a free standing monument type sign in.-front of the
restaurant on Silver Lake Road. A request for a .pylon sign was
withdrawn.
Mr. George said there would be two 4 X 7 signs on the building itself
similar, but smaller., than those on the photos of other facilities,
but there is also a need for a 7 foot high sign to identify their
business to prospective customers , because the restaurant business
"is still an impulse business" . He believed the sign would also be
viewed as a safety measure to let the "mother with three children
in her car know the restaurant is there in time .for her to make a .
safe turn into the shopping center.
Mr. Berg had .described the sign in his. cover letter as having a
three foot high base and a 4 X 8 overall width and said Zantigo's
would be well within the 96 square feet of. signage they are permitted
for the building they propose considering -the sign's configuration.
Mr. Makowske commented that under .the .new sign ordinance the Com-
mission has before it for its final reading, there would be no
variance required- for this sign.
Mr. Bowerman pointed out that he perceives the -rationale which the
Commission used to justify the parking variance would now seem to
work against the request for the sign variance. He said if less
• parking is needed for a .building which is located in a vast area of
undeveloped land in a shopping center because the restaurant is in
that shopping center, then there should probably ..not be any more
signage permitted them than is permitted the other tenants in the
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same center. .He was troubled to. think the .preceddnt= might be set
for having to permit individual signs for Minnesota Fabrics , Rexall
Drug and the bank and eventually .the strip along Silver Lake Road
might become similar to Central Avenue, "a strip of flashing neon" .
He believes the mix of commercial. and .residential along Silver Lake
Road make it absolutely essential that the signage be controlled in
this area and near the other shopping center on the other end of
the roadway.
Mr. Cavanaugh responded to this by sayinghe doesn' t believe this
will ever happen in Apache and the fact that there is no such signage
for J. C. Penneys , Red Owl or LaBelle 's demonstrates how tough
Apache has been in that regard. He said the new restaurant would
occupy 21, 500 square feet of space in the center and it had taken
a lot of convincing for him to see their need for the free-standing
sign.
Mr. Bowerman commented that it seems to him the two signs which would
be 13 feet high on the building- could be easily seen. . He suggested
the proponents .might want to wait to see what signage is developed
in the new ordinance.
Mrs . . Makowske said considering all the signs .which have been approved
in the last few years , some right across the street from the subject
site, she would be hard pressed to suggest this sign be denied.
However, she would like to see guarantees attached that the sign
would not be built on a berm and that all lighting would be shut
• off after business hours .
Mr. Peterson said he believes the Apache Management has made a good
case for recommending approval of the variance .
Mr. Sopcinski . indicated he has seen the City 's control over signage
jeopardized long before this request and with the new ordinance,
such signage would be permitted wherever a business indicates they
need it.
Mr. Zawislak agreed with Mr. Bowerman that the City should not set
the precedent of permitting free-standing signs in a shopping center
and he also saw the inconsistencies in the arguments for the parking
and signage variances . He also .noted that Mr. Cavanaugh might not
always be making the decisions for signage .
Mr. Jones believes the new Zantigo building would be ..its own identi-
fication and their signage could be easily seen on Silver Lake Road.
However, if they were able to prove the view of the restaurant is
obstructed in such a manner that drivers can'-t make the decision to
turn in time, he would be in -favor of granting the firin_' s request-.for
a variance.
Mr. Cavanaugh indicated the Zantigo representatives wanted to have the
decision on their request tabled until the new ordinance is approved.
•
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Motion by Mr. Bowerman and seconded by Mrs . Makowske to table the
request for a free-standing .-sign for the Zantigo restaurant at the
• request of the applicants .
Motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Berg asked .that .those planning to attend the housing conference
to be sponsored: by the Metropolitan .Council.-October: 27th, .contact
_him at the. City Hall.
Motion .byzMr. Peterson and .seconded by Mr. Sopcinski to adjourn the
meeting at 10 :05 P .M.
Motion -carried unanimously .
Respectfully submitted,
Helen Crowe , Secretary