HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL MINUTES 09201983 Meeting Sheet
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Box: 21
Folder: PL MINUTES AND AGENDAS 1983
Document: PL MINUTES 09201983
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CITY OF ST. ANTHONY
• PLANNING COMMISSION MI14UTES
September 20 , 1983
The meeting was called to order by Chair Makowske at 7 : 35 P .M.
Present for roll call : Bowerman, Makowske , Bjorklund, Wagner and
Franzese.
Absent: Jones and Zawislak.
Also present: David Childs , City Manager.
The secretary had included in._the agenda packet. proposed amendments to
the August 16 , 1983 minutes as they had been presented to the -Council
August 23 and these were modified further as to specific position on a
particular page as well as to make a distinction between Dick Jones ,
the proponent for the Elmwood Lutheran Church and Commissioner Jones .
Commissioner Bowerman suggested using lined paper with each line numbered,
as court reporters do; to make identifying changes in the minutes
easier.
Motion by Commissioner Bjorklund and seconded by Commissioner Bowerman
to approve the minutes of the Planning Commission meeting held August
• 16 , 1983 with the following amendments and changes in wording :
Page 1, para. 11: Lines 8 through 12 should be rewritten to .read .as
follows : "These included the architect' s advice
that several 'of the neighbors ' suggestions might be
structurally unsound and the fact that none of the
alternate plans would provide the desired restrooms ,
kitchen expansion, or additional seating in the
existing sanctuary if the fellowship hall were added
as proposed by the church. Mr. Jones . . . . " .
Page 1, para. 12 : Change "Mr. " to "Dick" Jones. in line 1.
Page 2 , para. 3: Change "Mr. " to "Dick" Jones in line 7.
Page 3, para. 2 : Change "Mr. " to "Dick" Jones in line 5 .
Page 4 , para. 2 : Change "Mr. " to "Dick" Jones in line 3 .
Page 5 , para. 4 : Change "Mr. " to "Dick" Jones in line 9 .
Page 6 , para. 3: Insert "reference made" between "or" and "to" in
line 2 .
Page 7, para. 9 : Insert as the ninth paragraph, "Dick Jones indicated
he had been told the plans and sketches he had
• brought with him July 19th would be sufficient for
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this stage in the development and Commissioner
• Bowerman indicated -he had not gotten that impression
from Mr. Childs ' August 12th memorandum. Mr. Childs
responded that the information referred to in the
August 12th memo consisted of maps and data requested
from the applicant by the Commission at their July 19th
Commission meeting, which had not been received as
of that time" .
Page 8, para. 2 : Insert "has" as the first word in line 5.
Page 12 , para. 1: Correct spelling of "square" in (2) .
Motion carried unanimously.
Commissioner Bjorklund commented he believes the Commission minutes
consistently give an accurate report of what transpires during a
meeting as contrasted with other official meetings in this area. He
then consented to present the report on the meeting that evening to the
Council at their September 27th meeting.
A public hearing had been scheduled for 7: 35 P .M. on the request from
Donald and Betty Lou Fvertz for a variance which would allow them to
construct a 10 ' X 10 ' addition to the west side of their home at 2901
St. Anthony Boulevard. When it became apparent that there was no one
to present the proposal, Mr. Childs suggested the matter be moved down
on the agenda to give the proponents an opportunity to -be present for
• the consideration. Mr. Bowerman indicated he would be opposed to such
a move because he believed much Commission time had been wasted in just
this manner when the proponents have failed to come to the meeting at
the scheduled time. In the interest of greater efficiency for the
Commission, he suggested the Commission adopt the practice of tabling
all requests for which the proponents fail to show up within 15 minutes
of the time the hearing is scheduled and not to arbitrarily change time
of - a- public hearing-for.:.which -all legal requirements for. notice and
scheduling have been followed. Commissioner Bjorklund indicated he
agreed that the proponents should at least have the courtesy to show
Up when the Commission members donating their own personal time to make
a recommendation of such requests. for the Council. Commissioner Bjorklund
said, however, he would have preferred addressing the request and mak-
ing a decision on it that evening.
Motion by Commissioner Bjorklund and seconded by Commissioner Wagner
to modify the agenda order to consider Item #5 after V.
Voting on the motion:
Aye : Wagner, Makowske , and Franzese.
Nay: Bjorklund and Bowerman.
Motion carried.
The company who handles all TCF signage apologized for not attending
the public hearing on the request before the Commission on August 16th,
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saying he had been out of town that evening. He said the application
• which. had not been signed., would , be. submitted by the sign installers ,
Leroy Signs , Inc. , and not his company because. they are not licensed
to install such a- sign in the City and the manner- in which that sign
company had answered questions dealing. with conditions under which a
variance. could be granted, had not reflected the true intent of
American Sign. Mr. Shannon reiterated that he perceives what could
be considered double negatives in these questions might have led the
installer to answer questions No. 1 and 3 erroneously. in the negative .
Mr. Shannon told the Commission members the "24 hour teller" message
TCF requests be added to the .existing sign has become the banking symbol
for the bank, replacing the eagle on the panel on other TCF signs ,
which had been eliminated to cut down the size of the existing St. Anthony
sign when it was approved In .1977 or 1978. With the advent of the
electronic banking, the banking industry has changed drastically,
Mr. Shannon said, and the entire industry finds it necessary to, market
a .whole new product and made the public . aware of the different services
whichare now being offered. He added that the. St. Anthony TCF sign
is one of the smallest of all the 57 signs the bank has in the metro-
politan area and it and one -other sign are the only ones not carrying
the new symbol.
Chair Makowske indicated she still did not see why this application
could be considered "unique to .that parcel and not applicable to other
property within the same land use classification" to which Mr. Shannon
• replied he perceives the bank is located on a very heavy traffic road-
way and across from a large shopping center and this type of business
seems . to fall within a category of its own. The sign company repre-
sentative indicated he doesn' t believe either the size or aesthetics
of the .proposed sign would be' out of line for that area and reiterated
that he sees both the sign and the addition as providing a service
to the community .
Commissioner Bowerman responded to this by saying since electronic
tellers are now commonly found in. a variety of business .establishments ,
and 24 hour machines are being installed all over the United States ,
TCF 's cash- machines could not be considered unique . He also questioned
whether other stores and banks which offer the same services in the
City might come to believe they should be permitted the same typeof
signage.
However, in spite of this , the Commissioner indicated he would favor
granting this, particular request, perceiving that the addition of
twelve square feet of tasteful signage would not be a detriment to the
neighborhood, even if the height had to be increased to accommd.date
the message, and that refusing to permit the bank to advertise their
new electronic services might create a hardship for them when all other
banking institutions all around them are permitted to advertise in this
manner.
Commissioner Wagner said he also recognized the community service the
• bank provides and believes that as well as the fact that the existing
sign is aesthetically pleasing should be weighed into any consideration.
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When Commissioner Bjorklund recalled the tremendous amount of opposition_
• from the neighbors which- had been generated when this' sign was ori-
ginally approved, Commissioner Wagner told him he believes that to be
history now and noted that not one expression of opposition had been
demonstrated during any -of the hearings on the proposal which had
been held since the Commission' s August 16th meeting, not even from
any of the residents in the neighborhood who had been notified that
a hearing was scheduled on the proposal .
Chair Makowske noted that the City. was not telling TCF they could not
have the same message displayed somewhere else on the site and indi-
cated she believed it would be inconsistent for the City to permit
this signage to be lit all night when other businesses in the same
district have been permitted lighted signs only while their establish-
ments are in operation.
Mr. Shannon told her he was certain TCF would be amenable to turning
the lighting on the panel off at midnight or 1 :00 A.M. since such a
sign is generic, and very few people do their banking all night long.
Commission Bjorklund indicated he intended to abstain from voting on
the variance because he had done some business for TCF in the past,
but cautioned the Commission members .that he perceives they should
advance some very strong .justifications. for establishing such an
unusual precedent,- where a non-conforming sign, of -a type not custom-
arily permitted in a commercial area, is permitted to be increased in
size, doubting whether there had ever been another instance where a
• non-conforming sign had been permitted to be enlarged. He also agreed
with. Mrs . Makowske that the City might have - little or no control over
any change in message which a future owner of the bank building might
put on the existing sign. Commissioner Bowerman agreed that enlarging
a non-conforming sign be taken seriously, . not at the same time , he
perceives the Commission has to take into consideration that a similar
circumstances in a changing industry are .bound to come up and it might
not be fair to prevent the bank from .competing with others in the same
industry. He also believes the Commission should take into considera-
tion the fact that TCF is certainly a fine addition to our community;
the bank building is aesthetically pleasing and the sign message
would not be perceived to distract from its appearance. The Commissioner
recalled during World War II when almost all businesses stayed open
24 hours a day to accommodate the war- plant workers .
Mr. Childs told Commissioner Franzese the City 's sign ordinance is
considered more -strict than average when compared with other municipalities .
Motion by Commissioner Bowerman and seconded by Commissioner Wagner to
recommend the .Council grant a variance to the Sign Ordinance to Twin
City- Federal Savings and Loan, 3899 Silver Lake Road, which would
permit them to add 12 . 6 square feet, as proposed, to their existing
display, specifically for a numeric and lettered double-sided sign
-- r-eadi-ng"24-HOU-R-T-ELLER",-on-the--condition-that sign not be illuminated
from 1 : 00. A.M. to 6 : 00 A.M. , finding that:
• (1) Granting such- a variance could not be considered to be detrimental
to that particular corner where a banking facility has already been
estab-lished on a large plot -of land which is surrounded by com-
mercial development.
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(21 Denying the request might place TCF in a competitive disadvantage
• with. other banking institutions . who are not restricted as to the
signage when advertising th.e. new electronic developments in their
field of enterprise .
Voting on the motion:
Aye : Bowerman, Wagner, and Franzese.
Nay: Makowske.
Abstention: Bjorklund
Motion carried.
The Managerindicated the Metro Council would be preparing a work
program for the City 's Capital Improvement Plan and as well as a housing
plan for which there would be no charge.
Steve Yurick of Arkell Development and Gary Tushie of Saunders-Thalden
Architects were present to report the revised proposal for the con-
dominium structure to be built under Phase 1 of the Kenzie Terrace
Redevelopment Project for which they were seeking an amendment�-to _th_e
Phase 1 Detailed P.U.D. Plan. Commission members were provided
copies of the site and elevation plans and a solar graph showing the
effect of the higher building on the adjoining property was presented
at the meeting. The original plans had been .revised to provide two
levels of parking, or one enclosed parking space per unit, because a
market survey of 114 persons who had indicated an interest in buying
• into the project had convinced the developers that the project would
probably be marketable with only a one for one ratio..of parking. The
architect had redrawn the plans to provide an extra level of parking,
one-quarter underground and three-quarters above ground, which, with
the four levels of condominiums , would result in a 5-1/2 story building
as compared to the 4-1/2 story structure approved for the P .U.D. In
his letter to the .four residents whose homes are directly behind the
project property, which was hand delivered by the Manager that day,
Mr. Childs had told them the height of the _structure would now be
49 feet to the eaves of the pitch roof . Mr. Yurick confirmed that
would change the height to 64 feet at the peak.
Only one of the four property owners was present for the discussion.
that evening. Bernice Basara. who lives directly behind the body shop
parcel at 2608 - 27th. Avenue .N.E. indicated she was in favor of homes
being constructed on the site since "they would be better than what' s
there now" . Her only concern was that' the higher building wouldn' t
increase the shading of the alley in the winter, which becomes so
icy driving is difficult. Mr. Tushie showed her on the solar graphs
that the shadows cast by the building at their lowest point in early
winter would never extend as far as those cast by the 30 foot ever-
greens just across the alley from her property.
---The-Manager -had--ta:lked-to-f1rs .—Weh-r—who lives on the end of that block
and she had not indicated any major problems with the revised proposal.
• When Commissioner Bjorklund asked Mrs . Basara if she knew why the other
neighbors weren' t at the meeting that evening, she told him Mr. Frederick
had died Monday and she didn' t know what the other neighbor 's reaction
towards the development would be.
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The Manager had researched the City ordinance sideyard requirements
• as they pertained to this project. He said townhomes are required to
have a total of 25 feet of sideyard while apartment. buildings must
have 15 feet of sideyard on each side of . the building: Therefore , it
seems to him that all setback requirements would be met .without
utilizing the disputed 5 or 10 feet of land between the body shop
and Hobie Swan' s mobile home park.
Commissioner Jones had called the Chair before the meeting to express
his concerns about the new height of the building and to question why
both levels of parking could not .be constructed underground. Mr.
Tushie told him such a plan would. entail additional excavation, haul-
ing, and mechanical ventilation costs. as well as problems with the
ramp turns . These extra expenses could raise -the costs of each unit
by between $7,500 and $9..,000 per unit, which would probably be too
high for the type of prospective buyer being sought from this area.
The architect then pointed out the advantages of constructing the
parking levels above ground, saying the first floor of condominiums
would be raised 12 feet which would result in the patio areas about
which many prospective buyers had expressed reservations related to
security, to become balconies instead. Security for the parking areas
would remain as originally planned but the openings in the top level
would be covered with wrought iron to .provide air ventilation of the
area. There would be two entrances to the .parking areas with opening
devices for the residents and. the doors operated from inside for
. guests .
Mr. Yurick told the Commission members the mortgate lender was
insisting on a 50 percent presale and his company would begin market-
ing next week.. He speculated that construction could start in
November but indicated the H.R.A. had -been requested to grant a six
. month extension of their agreement with Arkell to give the redevelopers
enough flexibility to come. in within that time frame .
There should be no difficulty for passage of emergency vehicles within
the 15 foot sideyard setback on the mobile home side of the property,
Mr. Childs said, and Chief Entner had told him his department would
always fight a fire in a building taller than four stories from within
so no requests for additional equipment can be expected for this
building.
Commissioner Bjorklund stated that he did not like the new building
at all, perceiving the new plan request represents a dramatic growth
in height of higher density and rise than are the norm for this
bedroom community. He reminded the Commission members how hard it
had been to sell the 3-1/2 story retirement apartment to the neighbors
several years ago.
Commissioner Franzese indicated she believes there would-be-a-trade-o-f-f --
—with-the-des-ign- -changeswhich would provide more -two bedroom units
and Commissioner Bowerman said he perceives more security for the
• residents with the balconies 12 feet above ground and the view from the
first floor units improved so the residents would no longer have to
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look right into the mobile homes to the west. Mrs . Makowske reminded
• Commissioner Bjorklund that the Planning Commissioner had been
partially responsible for the parking changes and the .density of. the
project would remain the same with 134. .units in the building.
Commissioner Bowerman commented that although a five story building
might seem high now, the buildings planned for the next two project
phases would be from 5 to, 8 stories high. and this building would then
serve as a buffer between them and the one story residences on
27th Avenue N.E.
Motion by Commissioner Bowerman and seconded by Commissioner Bjorklund
to recommend the Council accept the amended P .U.D. Detailed Plan for
Phase 1 of the Kenzie Terrace Redevelopment Project as per the draw-
ings submitted by the redevelopers at the September 20th Planning
Commission meeting. The Planning Commission,- while they have concerns
about amending the Plan to provide more parking because of the increase
in the total height of the building itself, recommends the Council
approve the amendment request for the following reasons :
(1) The new plan addresses the-. need for more parking.
(2). The plan would offer better security from vandalism, particularly
for the first tier above ground balconies .
The Planning Commission recognizes that adequate setbacks would be
• provided on the west side of the property as indicated on the site
plans and defers the decision to the Council as to particular legal
action to clarify the title.
Voting on the motion:
Aye: Bowerman, Wagner, Makowske , and Franzese .
Nay: Bjorklund.
Motion carried.
Mrs . Basara was thanked for providing her input to the discussion and
Mr. _.Ashmore, the editor of the Northeaster was also thanked for coming
and congratulated on the excellent coverage he gives St. Anthony
events in his newspaper which he distributes free of charge to the
City residents.
At 9 : 40 P.M. the Chair opened the public hearing on the Evertz petition
for a variance to the City Ordinance which would allow the construction
of a 10 feet X 10 foot addition for a dining room to be build on the
west side of their home at 2901 St. Anthony Boulevard.
The notice of the hearing had been published in the .Bulletin September
15th and mailed to 40 property owners in the vicinity of the subject__ _
property--.—None-of—these--or-the-proponents themselves had arrived
at this time and the Manager reported he had received no calls on the
• proposal.
The hearing was closed' at 9 :41 P.M. for Commission consideration.
Commissioner Bjorklund said he wanted the request to be voted on that
evening notwithstanding the absence of the petitioners . He indicated
he would oppose the request because he perceives the addition would
• protrude too far onto that corner and could be expected to encroach
on a driver's view turning the corner. The Commissioner said he was
personally acquainted with that home and contended that a dining room
could easily be built elsewhere in the house .
Commissioner Bowerman reiterated that he sees a lot of time being
wasted during Commission meetings and it was his intention to attempt
to set up more efficient proceedings for future meetings . His comment
was that the Commission' s purpose is only to advise the Council on
these requests.
Motion by Commissioner Bowerman and seconded by Commissioner Bjorklund
to recommend Council denial of the petition from Donald and Betty Lou
Evertz for a variance to the City Ordinance requirements for building
setback lines which would permit them to make a 10 foot Y 10 foot
addition to the west side of the existing structure at 2901 St. Anthony
Boulevard because no one had appeared at the hearing to present the
petition and the Commission believes they had insufficient information
for making any other decision. City Manager Childs recommended thst
the matter be tabled instead, because he was not certain whether staff
had indicated to the applicant that they needed to attend the hearing.
Because of this uncertainty, he felt they should get the benefit of
the doubt. In addition, steps would be taken to assure that such
confusion would not occur in the future.
Commissioner Bjorklund called the question.
Voting on whether to cut off further discussion:
Aye: Bjorklund and Bowerman.
Nay : : ,.Makowske, Wagner, and Franzese.
Motion not carried.
Commissioner Bjorklund indicated he didn' t like the idea of addressing
all the hardships for the applicant so they could be changed before
the matter is taken to the Council. Commissioner Bowerman repeated
he was primarily interested in speeding up the Commission proceedings
but doubted the Commission could have made any other decision on what
he perceived to be a nebulous plan to say the least with a sketch
which was not drawn to scale, so the Commission could determine what
the proposed addition's relationship would be to the existing garage
on the property. He added he had visited the site and had difficulty
determining just what the exact setbacks would be on that curved street.
Commissioner Wagner wondered if the applicants had not attempted to
address the hardships in the note they had written on the back of the
application and he was still concerned that the petitioners had not
been specifically advised that they must attend the hearing.
• Commissioner Franzese indicated she perceives the Evertz ' had earned
the right to have their proposal given Commission consideration when
they had paid the application fee . She said the uncertainty whether
or not the petitioners had understood they were obliged to be present
for the h-earing and the fact that there is no such statement on the
application form made her believe they should have the right to .have
the Commission answer their petition one way or another.
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The Chair commented that the Council might return this matter to the
Commission the same as they had the Twin City request for signage.
The vote on the recommendation for denial was taken and passed unanimously.
Commissioner Franzese told how excited she had been to attend the
Gunner Isberg seminar on planning and made some off the record
comments on his insight into matters which have come before the
Commission recently . She agreed to put further comments in writing
for their information, saying she believes the opportunity offered
the Commission to attend this type of seminar is invaluable to both
the City and the Commissioners themselves .
Motion by Commissioner Bowerman and seconded by Commissioner Franzese
to. adjourn the meeting at 10 : 15 P .M. ,
Motion carried unanimously.
Respectfully submitted,
Helen Crowe, Secretary
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