HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL MINUTES 04161985 Meeting Sheet {
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BOX: 21 .,
Folder: P, L MINUTES AND AGENDAS 1985
Document: PL MINUTES 04161985
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CITY OF ST. ANTHONY
. PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
April 16, 1985
1 The meeting was called to order by Chair Franzese at 7:32 P.M.
2
3 Present for roll call : Franzese, Bowerman, Hansen, and Madden.
4
5 Absent: Jones (3:34 P.M. ), Bjorklund (8:45 P.M. ), and Wagner.
6
7 Also present: Larry Hamer, Public Works Director.
8
9 Commissioner Hansen offered the following clarification to his statement reported
10 in the March 19th Commission minutes:
11
12 Page 7, line 46: Insert "and other promotional signs and banners" between "cig-
1 3 arettes" and "which".
14
15 Motion b' Commissioner Bowerman and seconded by Commissioner Hansen to approve as
16 amended the minutes of the Planning Commission meeting held March 19, 1985.
17
18 Motion carried unanimously.
. 19
20 Commissioner Jones arrived at 7:34 P.M. and volunteered to give the report on the
21 meeting at the April 23rd Council meeting.
22
23 At 7:35 P.M. , the Chair opened the public hearing to consider the petition from
24 990 Video Club, Inc. , 2908 Pentagon Drive N.E. , to be allowed to install two
25 signs totaling 145 square feet, in the same area where-;there had been a 200
26 square foot sign in the past, but where the Sign Ordinance would only permit one
27 sign no more than 54 square feet in area for a store with only a 27 foot frontage.
28 The petition was to place a 5 foot high by 20 foot wide Curtis Mathes iidenti-
29 fication sign on the building above the canopy where the 2-1/2_fo6t high by l8cr
30 foot wide video store identification sign would be transferred from the store's
31 previous location at 2920 Pentagon Drive.
32
33 The notice of the hearing had been published in the April 2nd Bulletin and mailed
34 to the three property owners of record who were within 200 feet of the subject
35 property. No one present reported failure to receive the notice or objected to its
36 content. Only the proponent was. present and Mr. Hamer affirmed that staff had
37 received no calls about the proposal at all .
38
39 The City Manager, who was testifying before a legislative committee that evening,
40 had addressed.what he perceived to be the issues in this proposal in his April 12th
41 memorandum to the Commission members and Mr. Hamer indicated the City Manager was
42 basically recommended approval of the variance because the proposed signage would
43 replace signage which was not much different.
. 44
45 In his memorandum, Mr. Childs had reported the absent owners of the shopping center
46 where the store is located had not appeared to be interested in upgrading their
47 property or establishing uniform signage for the stores in the center and it was
48 Mr. Hamer's observance that most center owners looked to the City for guidance
49 regarding signage.
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• 1 Sam Czaplewski , President of 99� Video, Inc./Curtis Mathes, was present and
2 reiterated much of the information he had attached to his application for the
3 variance, including the fact that the larger sign was the standard factory sign
4 which Curtis Mathes insisted should identify their franchise operations. The
5 petitioner said he and his partner had to pay $5,000 for the sign whether they
6 used it or not. He told the Commissioners the sign, which was an off grey and
7 green, was a "quality sign" which would enhance the front of that 27 foot wide
8 and 20 foot high .store. The store owner indicated his partner, who had been with
9 Curtis Mathes -for 13 years and, who was just that evening picking up that sign
10 which had been shipped to them, could better answer Commissioner Bowerman 's
11 question whether the sign was a condition for them getting the franchise, but
12 Mr. Czaplewski said that had been his understanding. When the Commissioner indi-
1 3 cated it was hard for him to believe a large firm like Curtis Mathes would insist
14 on signage which might not meet local ordinances, Mr. Czaplewski' said he guessed
15 the sign "would have to be reconstructed at our own expense".
16
17 The store owner then said $35,000 had been spent renovating the new store which
18 he perceived to be the nicest store in the mall. He said although the store is
19 only 27 feet wide, it is 127 feet deep, with a total of 3,000 square feet in all ,
20 and, if it had been proportioned better, there would have been no problem with
21 the signage they needed to identify. both- operations. The store owner indicated
22 he did not believe the signage was out of place, considering the signage other
23 stores, especially Warners, have.
24
25 Mr. Czaplewski said the first sign on that building had taken up the whole front
26 of the building and because of this, when he had talked to the City Manager about
27 his signage, Mr. Childs had indicated there would be no problem getting a sign
28 variance under those circumstances. When asked if those were the Manager's exact
29 words, the petitioner said they were.
30
31 He and his partner had taken it upon themselves to have the sign required for the
32 franchise included in the lease for the store and Mr. Czaplewski said Gordy Fox
33 of the Eberhardt Company, had assured him that he would have no problem with that
34 signage seeing the size of -the signs on other stores in the shopping center" .
35 The applicant later stated that Mr. Fox had actually indicated that, if the City
36 approved the signage, it would be al:.I right':with him.
37
38 Commissioner Hansen told the applicant the Ledwein sign had been "grandfathered in"
39 when the new Sign Ordinance was adopted in 1983. He indicated he had not ob-
40 served many stores in the center which exceeded the signage which was permitted
41 for this store, and the Commissioner said, it had been signs like the first sign
42 on that store, which was "unsightly, overlarge, and poorly maintained" which had
43 probably caused the City to rewrite their sign ordinance. The Commissioner also
44 told the store owner that Warners had double the frontage of his store and
45' acknowledged that there were probably many legally non-conforming signs in the
46 Village which the City could do nothing about until the existing occupants left.
47
48 Commissioner Bowerman told Mr. Czaplewski ' the City had granted minor variances
49 for signs in the past but he was concerned that a sign which was almost three times
50 larger than the ordinance permitted, would set a precedent which some larger store
51 owner might cite as a justification for a ratio just as- large. He also said the
52 proposal was for two sign's where only one is permitted per business establishment.
. 53 The Commissioner told the applicant he had not seen the hardship demonstrated which
54 would justify a variance of the size requested and also told him he did not have
_ 55 the option of just retaining the sign area which had been utilized by former
56 . tenants, as Mr. Czaplewski had indicated he might do.
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• 1 The store owner had stated that his new store had only been open since the first
2 of the month and that he had not been aware of the City' s Sign Ordinance until he
3 had gone-to the City Hall to get an operating permit and found out from the City
4 Manager that the signs he was planning to put up on hi-s store front would require
5 a variance. Commissioner Bowerman mentioned that the video center had been in the
6 City for the last few years and he asked the petitioner if he had not been aware
7 of -the restrictions the City put on signage to which the reply was "not precisely".
8 Commissioner Hansen then commented that he was surprised the store owners had
9 undertaken such an expensive remodeling job without first touching base with the
10 City to find out what its ordinances were.
11
12 Commissioner Jones -said he would like to see no further variances granted for signs
13 in that center until the center managers had come in with uniform plan for signage
14 for the whole center. Commissioner Madden indicated he did not believe it would
15 be fair- to place the burden of getting uniform signage on one tenant or to use
16 this request to pressure Eberhardt to come up with a sign plan.
17
18 Commissioner Hansen indicated he agreed with Commissioner Madden that the proposed
19 sign should not be used as a lever to force uniform signage. The applicable ordin-
2o ance was then read to Mr. Czaplewski who indicated he might be open to suggestions
21 for one sign which might more closely match the ordinance.
22
23 Commissioner Jones indicated he sympathized with the fact that the store had so
24 much depth as compared to the frontage on which the sign size is determined and said
25 he could see there might be a need for more than the 54 feet of signage allowed
• 26 for that store, but did not believe the case had been made for two signs with
27 different styles which would be almost three times the size the ordinance allowed.
' 28
29 Commissioner Madden suggested action on the request be deferred until the next
30 meeting to permit the applicant to work with City staff on a new sign which might
31 be more acceptable. Commissioner Hansen concurred with that suggestion, as long
32 as the proposed signs are not put up in the interim.
33
34 The hearing closed at 8:05 P.M. when Mr. Czaplewski indicated he would be willing
35 to work with staff to develop a sign which might or might not meet the Commission
36 approval .
37
38 Motion by Commissioner Madden and seconded by Commissioner Jones to table action
39 on the request for signage for the 990 Video Center/Curtis Mathes store at 2908
40 Pentagon Drive until the next Commissioner meeting, May 21 , 1985, to give the
41 applicant time to work with staff on another sign proposal which would more closely
42 conform to the City Sign Ordinance.
43
44 Motion carried unanimously.
45
46 There was no objection to Mr.. Hamer's suggestion that the store owners be allowed
47 to put up the sign they are moving from their old location until the next Commission
48 meeting.
49
50 At 8:10 P.M. , Chair Franzese opened the hearing to consider the request for a sign
51 variance from the Town and Country Store at 2550 Highway 88. The Commission had been
52 provided agenda copies of the April 8th letter written by the City Manager to the
53 store managers informing them that they would have to pay a $25 application fee
54 before April 11th and would have to have representatives present for the Commission
55 hearing on their proposal or face the probability of having their request auto-
56 matically denied. Mr. Hamer confirmed that the fee had never been paid and there
57 was no one present from Town and Country to present the request. Mr. Hamer recom-
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• 1 mended that to save the expense of publishing again, the Commission table the
2 matter until staff can ascertain whether the store .wants to continue its application.
3
4 Commissioner Bowerman moved the hearing be closed at 8: 15 P.M. and made the,following
5 motion:
6
7 Motion by Commissioner Bowerman and seconded by Commissioner Jones to table action
8 on the sign variance request from Town and Country since the required application
9 fee had not been paid and the proponents were not present for the Commission's
10 April 16th consideration of their request.
11
12 Motion carried unanimously.
13
14 At 8:15 P.M. , Chair Franzese opened the public hearing to consider the petition for
15 a sign variance for Midwest Federal Savings and Loan Association, 3928 Silver Lake
16 Road, which would allow installation of two embossed lexan "tree" logo signs, 5 feet
17 by 6 feet each, one on the north and the other on the south side of the building.
18 The notice of the hearing, which the Chair read, had been published in the April 2nd
19 Bulletin and mailed to all property owners of record within 200 feet of the subject
20 property. Only three Midwest representatives and Chester Krumm who lives across
21 Silver Lake Road from the bank were in attendance and no -one reported failure to
22 receive the notice or objected to its content. As indicated in the City Manager 's
23 April 12th memorandum to the Commission members, Mr. Hamer said he perceived the
24 building was already well signed according to the Sign Ordinance since after the
25 tornado last year, Mr. Childs had allowed the replacement of the sign lettering of
• 26 the same size and configuration as had been on the building before it was re-
27 constructed. The signage which goes all around the top of the building has the
28 words "Midwest Federal " in three locations as well as the "tree" logo in -six loca-
29 tions. In his assessment of the request for additional signage, the Manager had
30 reported receiving a call from one businessman questioning the allowance of so much .
31 signage when his own signage had been strictly limited by the City.
32
33 Bob Egge of Griswold, Rauma, Egge, Olson Architects, 830 Shelard Tower, St. Louis
34 Park; Bob Zeller, Senior Vice President of Midwest Federal ; and Terry Boblitt,
35 Manager of the Apache branch bank, who did not speak, were present for the Com-
36 mission consideration of Midwest's request.
37
38 Mr. Egge requested the proposed lexan "trees" not be deemed signs per se but
39 rather "cornerstones". Mr. Zeller responded to the Chair's request that he
40 specifically address the hardship he perceived Midwest would suffer if they were
4 1 not granted the variance, by saying Midwest's attempt to solidify their corporate
42 identification with the tree symbol could not be carried out and he perceived the
43 bank' s location was somewhat unique with two public roads on two sides of the
44 building and the quasi-streets on the other two sides which bear heavy vehicular
45 traffic around the structure.
46
4 7 Commissioner Bowerman said he found it difficult to see the proposed logos as not
48 being signs. He pointed to the beauty shop across Silver Lake Road whose business
49 logo became its sign identification. The Chair commented that she perceived the
50 logos would be very attractive but that they were certainly not necessary to
51 identify that particular building.
• 52
53 Mr. Zeller responded by saying, Midwest Federal considers the "trees" they display
54 on all their other branch banks to be the most important business communication the
55 bank has with the community since almost everyone recognizes Midwest Federal is
56 "the tree you go to for shelter". Commissioner Hansen told Mr. Zeller the Apache
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• 1 facility already has six tree symbols in its signage for the building to which the
2 bank Vice President responded by saying those are no higher than the letteri:ig and
3 if the bank officials had realized the proposed lexan symbols would not .be -allowed
4• because of the existing signage they might not have gone that way when the building
5 -was reconstructed.
6 ..
7 Commissioner Jones told Mr. Zeller he perceived Mr. Childs had been very -generous
8 when he permitted them to replace what the Commissioner considered to be non-
9 conforming signage on their building which in his estimation had been almost 100%
10 damaged in the tornado as compared to the two florists on Edward Street who were
11 non-conforming uses not permitted to resume their businesses because they were more
12 than 75% damaged. The Commissioner also said he perceived the roune' bank building
13 was architecturally a sign in itself since no one could fail to know just what
14 bank it was by looking at it. Commissioner Jones then asked whether the bank
15 would be willing to remove the tree symbols on the top of their bjilding if the
16 Manager permitted them to put up the -two lexan signs at the entrances. The
17 Commission is in a very difficult position with this request, he told Mr. Zeller,
18 having just told another businessman he probably wouldn 't be able to have the
19 signage he needs to continue his business. Commissioner JoneF also indicated he
20 had been very surprised to hear the proponents say the Manager had told them they
21 should have no problem getting their signs.
22
-23 Mr. Zeller said he perceived it would be a "calamity' for Midwest not to be allowed
24 to carry out what is the whole marketing concept of their institution at this
25 branch.
• 26
27 Commissioner Hansen acknowledged that the City had a toug:i sign ordinance but told
28 the bank representatives they had to realize also based its image on the type of
29 signage it permits for the community.
30
31 Pictures of the Apache and other branch banks Midwest has in the metropolitan
32 area had been passed to. the Commission members and Commissioner Hansen commented he
33 perceived there were more trees on the Apache building than on the new bank in
34 Burnsville. Mr. Egge said the trees had been added since the picture had been taken.
35
36 The Chair asked whether the bank officials would prefer to have the Commission
37 decision tabled to the next meeting to give them the opportunity of working out
38 some other arrangement with staff perhaps to substitute the two lexan trees for
39 those already on the building or to take their chances on a Council decision on a
40 Commission recommendation for denial .
41
42 Mr. Zeller said he would rather have the matter tabled for a month when the bank
43 could come in with another plan and indicated he was not prepared to commit to
44 that particular substitution at this time.
45
46 The hearing was closed at 8:45 P.M. , just shortly after Commissioner Bjorklund had
47 entered the meeting.
48
49 Motion by Commissioner Jones and seconded by Commissioner Madden to table action
50 on the Midwest Federal Savings and Loan Association sign variance request until
51 the .next Commission meeting, May 21st, to give the Midwest officials the .opportunity
52 to work out another sign plan with the City Manager.
53
54 Voting on the motion:
55
56 Aye: Jones, Madden, Franzese, Bowerman and Hansen.
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• 1 Abstention: Bjorklund.
2
3 Motion carried.
4
5 Mr. Hamer indicated the City Manager wanted their initial reaction to a request
6 from Dennis Mariotti , whose moped dealership at 2620 Central Avenue N.E. had burned
7 down, to re locate his business in the Saliterman shopping center in St. Anthony.
8 Commissioner Bjorklund recalled a similar request -from the Kokesh motorcycle shop
9 a few years ago and indicated he perceived it would be very helpful for the
10 Commissioners to have the minutes of the hearings on that proposal for reference
! ''�• 11 with this proposal , remembering that there had been quite detailed conditions
12 set for this type of operation with the Kokesh proposal . Mr. Hamer said he would
13 anticipate the applicant would make a formal application at the next Commission
14 meeting and he would be certain they had the copies of those minutes well in
15 advance of that meeting.
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17 Mr. Hamer then addressed several concerns raised during this meeting and in pre-
18 vious meetings related to violations of the Sign Ordinance in the City. The Public
19 Works Director said enforcement of the ordinance is one of his responsibilities
20 and he related efforts he undertakes with different business establishments to
21 enforce the ordinance regulations. Mr. Hamer said he knew Gordon Fox and would
22 contact the Eberhardt manager to find out just what plans his firm has to establish
23 some sort of uniformity in the signage for the St. Anthony Shopping Center.
s 24
25 Commissioner Bjorklund reiterated his concern that the usage at the Sroga station
26 was changing to a trucking business and said a resident had recently expressed the
27 same concerns 'to him. Commissioner Bowerman recalled there had been meetings in
28 the past with the station owners regarding the appearance of their.business
i 29 location which all the Commissioners agreed had improved to a great extent after
- 30 the meetings. Commissioner Bowerman recalled that at one of the meetings, the
31 station had been directed to have no more than eight vehicles parked on the
32 property at one timeand indicated he agreed the usage was changing to trucking.
33 Mr. Hamer said he knew Joe Sroga well enough to discuss with him the community
34 concerns about the over the road trucks and proliferation of vehicles parked on
35 his property at times. He said he knew the business had become almost exclusively
36 towing since the gas pumps had been moved to another location across Stinson
37 Boulevard and the Director told the Commissioners the Srogas were towing not only
38 for St. Anthony but- also for the state and a number of other communities and that
39 they had other property in Anoka where they transferred vehicles once the waiting
s 40 periods had elapsed. His discussions with Joe Sroga would be reported back to
41 the City Manager, who would probably relay them to the Commissioners, Mr. Hamer said.
42
43 Commissioner Madden asked for clarification about several ordinance references
44 ' indicating he had never received a copy of the City Zoning Ordinance. Mr. Hamer
45 said he would take care of that right away.
46
47 The Commissioners expressed their appreciation for the insight the Public Works
48 Director had given them as to the difficulties of enforcing the City Ordinances.
49
50 Motion by Commissioner Madden and seconded by Commissioner Hansen to adjourn the
51 meeting at 9:.05 P.A.
52
53 Motion carried unanimously.
54
55 Respectfully submitted,
Helen Crowe, Secretary