HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL MINUTES 12021985 Meeting Sheet
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Folder: PL MINUTES AND AGENDAS 1985
Document: PL MINUTES,12021985
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CITY OF ST. ANTHONY
• PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
December 2, 1985
1 The meeting was called to order by Chair Franzese at 7:30 P.M.
2
3 Present for roll call : Franzese, Bowerman, Hansen, Bjorklund, Wagner and Madden.
4
5 Absent: Jones.
6
7 Also present: David Childs, City Manager, and, as observers, Councilmembers
8 Ranallo and Marks.
9
10 Motion by Commissioner Bowerman and seconded by Commissioner Hansen to approve the
11 minutes of the Commission meeting held November 19, 1985 with the following
12 changes:
13
14 Page 9, Line 30: Substitute "west" for "south" .
15
16 Page 9, Line 39: Substitute "north" for "west" .
17
18 Motion carried unanimously.
19
20 Commissioner Bjorklund indicated he would be willing to present the evening 's
21 minutes at the Council meeting next evening .
22
23 At 7:40 P.M. the Chair opened the public hearing to consider the request from
24 Arkell Development Company for an amendment of the Development Concept Plan for
25 the Kenzie Terrace Redevelopment Project under the City P. U.D. Ordinance for the
26 developer' s preliminary proposal to change the project use from market rate
27 condominiums (_300 units in 3 buildings ranging from 5 to 8 stories in height) to
28 market rate elderly rental DOD units in 2 buildings of 5 and 8 stories) with an
29 average rental rate of approximately $800 a month and to include 33,000 square
30 feet of commercial use in the first building .
31
32 In his November 27th memorandum to the Commissioners, Mr. Childs had indicated the
33 Parking for residential units would all be underground and the developers propose
34 to provide 120 parking spaces in conjunction with the commercial use. The Manager
35 had indicated staff had recommended approval of Arkell 's request, recognizing that
36 minor fine-tuning of the Plan could take place in the detail and final phases of
37 the P.U.D. process. As he had stated in his memorandum, Mr. Childs reiterated that
38 the notice of the hearing had been sent to all property owners of record within
39 350 feet of the project site, a meeting with adjacent merchants to discuss the
40 Proposed addition of commercial had been held November 27th, and information about
41 the project had been sent to Alderman Dziedzic 's office. The Manager reported
42 staff had hand delivered 50 notices of the November 27th meeting with the
43 St. Anthony Shopping Center merchants but only four had attended that meeting .
44 He also said no objections to the changes had been registered with staff since
JW145 the meeting.
46
4 6 The proposed parking for the commercial would be adequate under the City ordinances
and Mr. Childs reported, the developers had indicated the building quality would
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• 1 equal what they had originally proposed for the condominium project. They had
2 also indicated they wanted to keep open the option to convert the rental back to
3 condominiums in ten or fifteen years if the market swung back in that direction.
4
5 The City Council had given preliminary approval to the use of Housing Revenue Bonds
6 to help finance the project which, Mr. Childs told the Commissioners, should
7 provide a much more secure financing package for this project than the developers
8 had for the Kenzington. Any major changes in the Detail and Final Plan for the
9 project would have to be brought back as another Concept Development Plan amend-
10 ment for Commission and Council approval , he added.
11
12 Commissioner Bjorklund pointed out what he perceived to be inconsistencies between
13 the Sketch of Existing Zoning on the first page and Site Development Plan on the
14 second, relative to Wilson Street and asked whether that street had been abandoned
15 for the project. Mr. Childs responded by saying, if Wilson were actually a
16 dedicated street, it would never be developed under the Planned Unit Development
17 for the project and, if it had been abandoned, these property owners would only
18 be entitled to half of the street.
19
20 Steve Yurick of Arkell indicated he perceived the question would have to be
21 resolved later by Gary Tushie, the architect, who was also present, because the
22 developers had included the street in their project. The developer showed on
23 the plans how the parking would extend beyond the building walls, around what
24 the developers called the "roof top plaza". The entrance to the project would
25 still be off Kenzie Terrace, Mr. Yurick indicated.
26
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27 Mr. Yurick reiterated the target area around the City, for which he said the
28 study Arkell had done had indicated there were a significant number of elderly
29 for whom housing was still needed, but in a different form. The developer also
30 indicated because there had been a change in market conditions since the con-
31 dominium project for this site had originally been approved, Arkell had decided
32 it would not be prudent to go forward with that project and that they desired
33 to provide rental apartments instead.
34
35 He said the developers would be primarily seeking occupants for the commercial area
36 who would provide for the needs of the senior residents coming into the area
37 but would still be available to the rest of the community.
38
39 One interesting thing which had come up during the meeting with the merchants,
40 Mr. Yurick indicated, was that Hennepin County wanted to build a new library and,
41 a. contact with library officials had indicated they had at least a preliminary
42 interest in exploring the possibility of utilizing the space in this building .
43
44 The developer told Chair Franzese he had assessed the merchants' reaction to the
45 commercial proposal to have been "neutral , not really positive, but certainly not
46 negative" as long as the commercial was kept to types. of services which would not
47 compete with the other stores in the area.
48
49 What the developers would really like to do would be to have the same type of unit
50 size, etc. as had been planned for the condominiums, Mr. Yurick ' indicated, but
51 no plans had been made yet to provide the type of luxurious unit which was
52 developing in the Kenzington in accordance with the desires of .the buyers.
53
54 Commissioner Bowerman drew on his own experience as a retailer by saying he esti-
55 mated it would take about 4-1/2 or 5 million dollars in sales to support 33,000
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• 1 square feet of commercial where it would have to compete with other commercial in
2 the same area. He also mentioned the fact that the competing shopping center had
3 not been very successful . He asked whether a market study had been done for the
4 project, and whether Arkell would be handling the commercial themselves.
5 Mr. Yurick responded that the matter had not been addressed in relation to sales
6 volume or the details Commissioner Bowerman was suggesting, but was only a concept
7 at this time. However, in talking -to other people, especially in the area of
8 specialty type shops which would service this type of building, there appeared to
9 be enough evidence that there should be sufficient demand to fill that space. One
10 of the projects the developers would be exploring, the developer indicated, would
11 be a dining facility of the caliber people had told the developers they perceived
12 was lacking in St. Anthony, which would meet the needs of the community as well
13 as those of the residents in the immediate area.
14
15 Commissioner Bowerman indicated he perceived the original concept for these build-
16 ings had been that they would be servicing the "empty nesters" of the. same type and
17 income as would be moving from Hilldale, Townview, etc. , to which Mr. Yurick
18 responded that that might apply to some of the people who had been targeted for
19 this area but the other side of the coin would be the families moving into the
20 homes vacated by the "empty nesters", who the developers perceive, would be more
21 apt to add to the growth of the community, as opposed to just creating stability.
22 Mr. Childs commented that a medical facility and/or a library would use up a good
23 portion of the available space and would not require the type of commercial market-
24 ing Commissioner Bowerman was talking about. Mr. Yurick added, that he wanted to
25 correct any impression that the developers would be shooting for only a retail
26 market for that space. He also. indicated that Arkell ' s other project, Woodlake
27 Point, did not have commercial in the project itself but was within 200 feet of a
28 major retail/restaurant area.
29
30 The developer then told the. Commissioners the same type of major management firm
31 would be sought to provide maintenance for this project as had been planned for
32 the condominium project with, in all probability, either Walker Management or
33 Health Central providing that service. When the Manager was asked what controls
34 the City would have in this regard, he indicated the same as with other multi-
35 family developments in the City, basic maintenance related to the codes would be
36 enforced.
37
38 Bill Barnhardt, 325 Minneapolis City Hall , indicated he was representing Minneapolis'
39 interests that evening and the perception was that the project the developers were
40 proposing might also offer a nice option for senior home owners from Minneapolis,
41 which is in the target area for this project, who might not want to invest in more
42 real estate after they have disposed of their family homes. Mr. Barhardt asked
-43 what type of long term assurances would be built into the agreement with the
44 developers that the use would not later be converted -to open market, rather than
45 senior rental , because the Minneapolis spokesman indicated, it would be fair to
46 say the impact on the adjoining residential between the- two could be very different.
47
48 Mr. Yurick told him there was probably nothing. written down per se, but he was
49 certain under housing revenue financing, the FHA would make certain the project
50 remained senior for at least ten or fifteen years. Mr. Childs added that the pro-
51 ject would have to' be returned for Commission and Council- approval if the
52 occupancy -changed. Even though most studies considered the terms "senior" and
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53 "elderly" for persons over 65 years of age, Mr. Yurick conf firmed that Arkell would
54 be seeking persons 55 and over for this project.
55
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1 Greg Gustafson, Vice President of META Limited Operating Partnership, 7400 Metro
2 Boulevard, Edina, developers of the Kenzington, spoke in favor of the proposal ,
3 indicating META shared Arkell 's conclusion that it would not be prudent to attempt
4 another condominium project- under the prevailing market conditions. He said he
5 believed the rental project would be very complementary to the Kenzington and the
6 neighborhood. The developer indicated META viewed the proposed commercial as
7 complementary to the whole area.
8
9 Joe Schluender, 2708 - 27th Avenue N.E. , questioned the developers about the
to structural construction of the Kenzington, indicating he perceived both projects
11 would be developed in like manner. He was concerned.'whether the "two inch strips
12 in the walls could actually hold up the floors, including the ones which have
13 to support cars" . Mr. Tushie assured Mr. Schluender that what he saw had been a
14 common installation method designed and certified by structural engineers and
15 used for years for precast walls.
16
17 When the Chair asked Mr. Barnhardt why Minneapolis was so concerned about whether
18 the new project would -be senior rental or not, he told her the Minneapolis
19 residents who would be neighbors to the project had been very comfortable when -- _
20 they first heard the project was going to be condominiums and now perceived the
21 impact of senior rentals would be very similar to condominiums because the _
2 2 occupants would probably be. the type of persons who had always taken good care of
2 3' their own properties and took pride in their neighborhoods, which might or might
24 not be true of straight rental occupants.
25
26 Mrs. Fung-Teing of the Mei-Wah Restaurant, 2524 Harding Street, was present but
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27 did not speak.
28
29 There was no one present who spoke against the changes and the hearing was closed
30 at 8:25 P.M. for Commission input towards a motion to the Council .
31
32 Commissioner Bjorklund commented that, even if you took half of Wilson Street
33 away from the site total of 415,000 square feet, the density would be very low
34 compared to some of the R-4 zoning in Minneapolis. However, although he thought
35 the provision of underground parking was "great" he found only 16 parking places
36 in front of each of the two buildings to be really tight even for seniors, and he
37 perceived providing commercial in the residential area would make it "detached,
38 disjointed, and completely isolated, from the other commercial area", perceiving
39 the seniors on the other side of Kenzie Terrace would have to cross two senior
40 properties .to get to the new commercial , perhaps creating traffic hazards in the
41 process. Although he had to agree with Commissioner Bowerman that the P.U.D.
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42 for that area had been designed to prevent people from walking around private
43 property, Commissioner Bjorklund said he .didn't like "making the commercial an
44 island", when it should be attached to the existing commercial instead. Mr.
45 Childs responded that he perceived that he only spoke to the intent of the
46 developer that the new commercial would be oriented to the 500 new residents and
47 there would be no need for a community drive around the buildings. He added that,
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48 a _a.p racti_cal:matter, he would not expect people who park in front of the com-
O�49 mercia(_area �roul`d be apt to walk over to the grocery store, any more than they do
50 now from the liquor warehouse. Commissioner Bjorklund said that was just what he
51 meant by saying the new commercial would generate traffic all over the area and
( • 52 perhaps could even result in a pedestrian getting killed.
f 53
54 The Commissioner said he thought the amount of space devoted to commercial was
55 far too much and would have preferred to see only accessory commercial similar to
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1 the 1 ,000 square feet to be provided for the Chandler Place apartments, in this
2 building.
3
4 Commissioner Madden said he could see the need to switch from condominiums to
5 rental because-of market changes`, but he was still concerned about_ addinq
6 33,000 square feet of commercial* because the consensus of the__-Task -Force hadbeen
7 that housing should be provided where the Saliterman property stood, which would
8 support the remaining commercial being condensed into a more viable shopping
9 center. Now, the Commissioner said, the City would be putting one of those
10 buildings back into commercial when the study group had agreed there was just too
11 much commercial in the area already. , Commissioner Madden said he had become very
12 concerned to hear the developers suggest one of the new spaces might be occupied
13 by a pharmacy when there were already two in the existing shopping center, and,
14 the Commissioner added, if the library moves to this location, another vacancy
15 would be created in that center. He said it was his perception that the Task
16 Force recommendations were "all going out the window" and adding 33,000 square
17 feet 'of commercial to this area would just be defeating the purpose .of the study.
18 Commissioner Madden later indicated that he found it hard to believe "the vacant
19 stores in the St. Anthony Shopping Center might only be an anomaly resulting from
20 the owners_ desire to operate in an economic vacuum", saying he had never understood
21 how "you can make money by losing money" .
22
23 Commissioner Wagner said he perceived that, with new residents moving into the
24 area and with the addition of new types of services which draw more people into
25 the area, like a new library, or a restaurant, rather than to drain business away
26 from the merchants who are there now, the commercial might actually benefit them
27 by= attracting more customers to the area.
28
29 Commissioner Hansen said he generally viewed the proposed project positively,
30 although he could see Commissioner Bjorklund' s point about the traffic. He said
31 he would like to see what would finally be proposed for that space because he had
32 heard over and over the same question from persons who were interested in the
33 Kenzington, "will there be new shops provided in the area?" . The Commissioner
34 indicated he perceived the key to the project's success would be the kind of
35 establishments which are put into the commercial space, because, from what he
36 had heard, he wasn't certain the stores in the existing center would provide the
37 services the seniors seemed to think they required.
38
39 Commissioner Bowerman indicated he intended to make a motion of approval of the
40 entire project because he perceived the main focus should be on whether the City
41 of St. Anthony was going to go forward with a change for a major installation of
42 housing, with the public financing necessary to make it go, and that the commercial ,
43 which the- Commissioner considered not to be very big when compared to other
44 commercial projects, should be only a secondary consideration, because the market
45 would determine how successful that would, be in the long run anyway, Commissioner
46 Bowerman added, the developers would certainly have to do something else with the
47 property if the commercial proved not to be economically feasible.
48
49 Commissioner Madden indicated he believed the Task Force had foreseen the same
50 influx of people coming into the .area but had perceived they would be necessary.
51 to rebuild and support a viable shopping center. The Commissioner said he never
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52 doubted the new commercial space .would fill up immediately but was still con-
53 cerned that more vacancies _tn,.the existing shopping center would result.
54
55
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• 1 Commissioner Bowerman said he perceived there had been a lot of changes made since
2 the Kenzie Terrace report and he pointed out that two of the major businesses
3 around which Commissioner Madden had said the new business community would be
4 rebuilt, Penney's and Red Owl , had both been gone for some time. And, the Com-
5 missioner added, he could see no good reason for the City to be overprotective
6 of the center owners who had not made a single improvement in the center since
7 the Task Force had been disbanded.
8
9 Commissioner Wagner reiterated that there had been no merchant opposition to the
10 new commercial and the Manager said he had sent notices of the hearing to all
11 persons who had served on the Task Force and with the exception of those present
12 who had served on' that group, had heard nothing from that group.
13
14 Commissioner Franzese indicated her recollection had been that the Task Force
15 had never envisioned an influx of people the size anticipated for these_ projects .
16 She said she di-d �not want to hamper the developers in their efforts to make the
17 area productive and she agreed with Commissioner Wagner that it appeared there
18 was no real merchant concern about the commercial coming into their area.
19
20 Commissioner Bjorklund said he certainly had no desire to protect the absentee
21 landlords for the existing center because he 'agreed with Commissioner Bowerman
22 that the whole area was "shabby" and "run down" . However, it was the amount of
23 commercial the developers were proposing that he found "way out of line" .
24 However, when his and Commissioner Madden' s attempt to amend the Council 's .motion
25 of approval to reduce the commercial failed, Commissioner Bjorklund spoke in favor
26 of the original motion because he said he agreed the housing it provided was
• 27 "needed very badly".
28
29 Motion by Commissioner Bowerman and seconded by Commissioner Wagner to recommend
30 the Council accept the amendment to the Kenzie Terrace Redevelopment Concept Plan
31 proposed by Arkell Development Company to allow the following changes in Phases
32 IIB and III in accordance with the plans filed with the City of St. Anthony:
33
34 1 . Change from condominiums (300 units in 3 buildings ranging from 5-8 stories)
35 to senior market rate rental (_300 units in 2 buildings of 5 stories and 8
36 stories) ; and
37
38 2. To include approximately 33,000 square feet of commercial space on the first
39 floor of the first building .
40
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41 In recommending acceptance of these changes, the Commission finds that:
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43 1 . The request for the change was precipitated. by changing market conditions;
44
45 2. The information from the developers indicated that there is a demographic
46 market for rental property;
47
48 3. Requiring the developers to continue to be bound by the original Concept Plan
49 for .the P.U.D. would be burdensome and not in tune with today's market
50 conditions which could constitute a hardship for them; and
51
• 52 4. No member of the publ.ic, including merchants from the adjoining shopping area,
53 spoke against the change at the hearing or to staff prior to the meeting .
54
55
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• 1 Motion by Commissioner Madden and seconded by Commissioner Bjorklund to amend the
2 motion to change the size of the proposed commercial from 33,000 to 11 ,000 square
3 feet.
4
5 Voting on the amendment:
6
7 Aye: Madden and Bjorklund.
8
9 Nay: Bowerman, Wagner, Hansen, and Franzese.
10
11 Motion to amend not carried.
12
13 Original motion carried unanimously.
14
15 The meeting was recessed at 9:05 P.M. and then convened at 9:25 P.M. , the public
16 hearing to consider a request from META Operating Limited Partnership for -the
17 necessary variances to remodel and redevelop the American Legion and gas station
18 property at 2701-2709 Kenzie Terrace which the developers had acquired in con-
19 junction with the development of the Kenzington next door. The notice of the
20 hearing had been published in the November 20th Bulletin and mailed to all
21 property owners of record within 350 feet of the subject property. No one present
22 reported failure to receive the notice or objected to its content and the Manager
23 indicated he had received no calls for or against the proposal .
24
25 In his November 27th memorandum to the Commission , - Mr. Childs had indicated the
26 applicants proposed to retain both existing structures but to connect them at
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27 the second floor level with an additional floor added to the Legion Club building .
28 Mr. Childs had also -advised the Commission members that a variance would be
29 required because the request represented an expansion of a non-conforming use
30 because of the existing rear yard encroachment, which he said the META project
31 would expand no further.
32
33 Because the original concept had been for medical offices which would have required
34 more parking, the notice had indicated a larger variance would be needed, but,
35 the Manager said, since that concept had been abandoned by the developers, there
36 would now be 48 spaces provided where the ordinance called for 55.
37
38 As he had indicated in his memorandum, Mr. Childs reiterated that staff was
39 recommending both variances be granted because, with the unusual triangular shape
40 and .characteristics of the parcel , it would be extremely difficult to provide a
41 quality development without them.
42
43 META' s Vice President, Greg Gustafson and project architect, James Guttormson of
44 Environmental Expressions, 5416 - 45th Avenue South, Minneapolis, were present to
45 discuss their proposal and drawings of the project they were requesting. Mr.
46 Gustafson told the Commissioners his firm is developing the Kenzington and had
47 bought the property next door to "spruce up the neighborhood and protect our large
48 investment in the Kenzington by providing a compatible use for the condominiums. " .
49 He indicated that as far as the parking went, there had been 142 parking spaces
50 provided for 150 condominiums next door which the developer indicated he. perceived
51 was more than would be needed, leaving spaces to accomodate any overflow in the
52 shopping center 15 feet away. He said the way Kenzington sales are going, where
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53 buyers are not purchasing garage stalls the way they had been expected, as owner
54 of both properties, META would be able to sell or lease any excessive parking
55 space to the store or office owners next door. Mr. Gustafson indicated he would
56 also anticipate a lot of foot traffic between the buildings, since the type of
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• 1 units planned in' the new project would be geared to benefit the Kenzington resi-
2 dents. Mr. Gustafson concurred with the Manager' s assessment that the existing
3 parcel configuration should provide a legitimate hardship to justify the continua-
4 tion of the non-conforming status of the property. The developer indicated no
5 changes were intended to the back of the non-conforming structure and, therefore,
6 no further setback encroachment.
7
8 The META representatives replied to Commissioner Madden's concerns about the ability
9 of the Legion Club walls to support a third story, by telling him these pre-
10' liminary plans_ had not pro_aressed to that point, but the developers certainly
'11 ,wouldn't be proceeding without first getting sound construction advice. Mr. Gus-
12 'tafson told Commissioner Wagner META did not yet have a marketing plan for the
13 new project, but, since they anticipated it was going to be very expensive to
14 build, it would be necessary to get retail and office ancillary services to the
15 Kenzington which could support the project.
16
17 The developer said he would not anticipate the proposed commercial would seriously
18 compete with the existing shopping center since the three new housing projects
19 in the area would be attracting a whole new tenant mix which would demand a
20 different type of service. Mr. Gustafson added, that he perceived anything that
2.1 could be done to upgrade the area could be nothing but a plus, which made it all
22 the more imperative that the project get underway as soon as possible to enhance
23 the sales of the Kenzington condominiums.
24
25 There was no one present to speak in opposition to the proposal and the hearing
26 was closed at 9:38 P.M. to get a sense of the Commissioners regarding the request.
• 27
28 Commissioners Madden and Wagner indicated they had no problems with the concept
29 or variances.
30
31 Commissioner Bjorklund stated that he would not oppose the proposal because he
32 perceived it would conform in style and usage to the Kenzington and precedents
33 had been set many times in the past for allowing the development of similar
34 triangular shaped parcels because a real hardship for their owners would result
35 if the necessary variances were not granted.
36
37 Commissioner Hansen commented, from the perspective of a Legion Club member, that
38 "the Legion might have decided to stay if they had seen these plans" .
39
40 Chair Franzese indicated she perceived it had been fortunate to have a developer
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41 come in and do exactly what the City would like done with his property.
42
43 Motion by Commissioner Bowerman and seconded by Commissioner Hansen to recommend
44 the Council grant the request from META Operating Limited Partnership, 7400
45 Metro Boulevard, Edina, for the following variances to the City ordinance in
46 conjunction with the remodeling and redevelopment of the American Legion and gas
47 station property at -2701-2709 Kenzie Terrace:
48
49 1 . Parking space variance for no less than 48 parking spaces, to be provided no
50 matter what future use develops on the site, in conjunction with the proposed
51 commercial property being developed to use consistent with the approved
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52 ordinance uses for commercial property; and
i 53
54 2. To approve expansion of the existing non-conforming use with the setback
55 encroachment behind the gas station property, recognizing that the proposed
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• 1 construction would not further aggravate that encroachment defined as the
2 northwest corner of the existing service station building on said site.
3
4 In granting these variances, the Planning Commission finds that:
5
6 1 . The encroachment would be caused by the triangular dimensions of the site and
7 it is perceived the owner should be given full consideration to properly
8 develop this project within the confines of those difficult dimensions;
9
10 2• Structural difference of the portion of the building considered to be within
11 the encroachment is vertical rather than horizontal ;
12
13 3. This request would be compatible with the previously approved Kenzington and
14 Walker on Kenzie, as well as the upcoming senior rental project to be developed
15 by Arkell., in the surrounding area;
16
17 4. It should be recognized that there is an alleged difficulty or hardship not
18 created by persons presently having an interest in the parcel of land but
19 rather by the City ordinance because the developers are attempting to improve
20 their property and to refuse their request to do so would impose an undue
21 hardship on them;
22
23 5. By approving this request, the City would be eliminating excessive curb cuts
24 to Kenzie Terrace; and
25
• 26 6. No one appeared in opposition to the variances at the December 2nd Planning
27 Commission hearing .
28
29 Motion carried unanimously.
30
31 At 9:45 P.M. the Chair opened the hearing to consider the request from Kenneth
32 Johnson, 1925 Simpson, Roseville, for a variance to the City Sign Ordinance which
33 would allow him to erect on a 20 foot high pole the 55 foot square (_11 feet wide
34 by 5 feet high) sign he now has on his roof in front of the Hardees Restaurant,
35 4004 Silver Lake Road, he and his wife, Charlene, have operated for the past 17
36 years.
37
38 The Planning Commission had given the proposal a concept review the previous month
39 and had let Mr. Johnson know at that time there was very little chance he would be
40 permitted the pylon sign he had requested.
41
42 The notice of the hearing had been published in the November 20th Bulletin and
43 sent to all property owners of record within 200 feet of the subject property. No
44 one present indicated failure to receive the notice or objected to its content.
45 Mr. Childs said the only call he had received had been from the Apache owners
46 whose only concern was that the sign be only monument type.
47
48 Mr. and Mrs. Johnson were,.: present and Mr. Johnson continued to defend his per-
49 ceived right to be permitted the same type of signage the Amoco station just
50 south of him has to advertise food for sale, which the restaurant owner indicated
51 he viewed to be in direct competi-tion with him. Mr. Johnson said his perception
52 was that most of the monument signs throughout the City identified more service
53 type businesses like beauty shops, tire stores, etc. where customers are not
54 required to make spur of the moment decisions about stopping, as they are for his
55 restaurant. He said he understood the Rapid Oil Company not far from him had
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• 1 been permitted a pylon sign just because they had retained two gas pumps from the
2station which had previously operated on that site. Mr. Johnson said he didn't
3 think his business was that much different. He cited the need for more exposure
4because of a direct competition from both the Zantigo Restaurant and Amoco and
5said another City fast food establishment, Kentucky Fried Chicken, had a building
6 much closer to the street where it could be seen more easily than -his.
7
8 Mr. Johnson stated that the Mobil station pylon sign next door visually blocked
9 his sign and he said he expected the view of any ground sign would also be
10 blocked by cars parked at the station. The restaurant owner told the Commissioners
llhis existing roof sign which he now proposed to erect on a 20 foot pole was
12 actually smaller than he would be allowed under the ordinance. Mr. Johnson con-
13 eluded by saying he had always tried to be a good neighbor by keeping his property
14up, remodeling the restaurant, and cleaning the trash picked 'up. Mr. Childs said
15it was true that Hardees would be allowed 150 feet of wall signage but he told
16 the petitioner the Sign Ordinance does not allow any free standing signs for
17 commercial establishments, which is why even a ground sign of the same dimensions
18would require a variance.
19
20 Chester, Krumm- of'the St. Anthony Townhomes across Silver Lake Road, indicated he
2 1 would like the Hardees sign to stay right where it was . However, he acknowledged
22 the Townhome Association had also been allowed a ground sign although it had taken
23 a good number of meetings before the sign was finally approved. He was told the
24 final product had been one which more closely resembled what the City wanted than
25 any other in St. Anthony. However, when Mr. Krumm was asked whether he opposed
• 26 the sign, he offered no opposition..
27
2 8Commissioner Wagner told Mr. Johnson he was a regular Hardees customer and he
29 wasn't at all certain all the restaurant patrons were there because of last
30 moment decisions,, but, rather it might be more ;;:accurate to say one in ten customers
31hadn't planned to eat there in the first place. The Commissioner said he certainly
32 didn't think the gas station would offer any competition for the type of food
33 Hardees serves and he doubted that the Mobil - sign prevented drivers from seeing
34 the restaurant in time to stop if they wanted to. Commissioner Wagner said he
35 perceived there was little justification for a pylon sign in that location and,
36in his own opinion, a "classier, groundhugging sign would be just as effective" .
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38 The Chair agreed, saying there are residences across from the restaurant whose
39 owners might not want to look at a tall pylon sign from their windows.
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41 Commissioner Bowerman told the restaurant owners gas stations had been given the
4 2 privilege of- identifying their brand names on pylon signs long before he was on
4 3 the Planning. Commission, but he did not perceive they had been given the. right
44 to advertise the food they sold in the station in the same manner .
45
46 The hearing was closed at 10:00 P.M. for the Commissioners to develop a recom-
4 7 mendation to the Council . During the process, Commissioner Madden disagreed with
48Commissioner Bjorklund's specifying the type of materials to be used in the planter
49 base, -saying there had been similar -signs' in the City which had not been con-
50 structed in the same manner. However; the Commissioner voted for the final motion
5 1 which contained that specification.
? • 52
5 3 After the vote on the following was taken, Mr. Johnson thanked the Commissioners
54 and indicated he would have the architect draw up plans for the sign which he
55 would bring to Mr. Childs before the sign is installed in the spring :
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• 1 Motion by Commissioner Bjorklund and seconded by Commissioner Hansen to recommend
2 . the Council grant Mr. and Mrs.- Kenneth Johnson, 1925 Simpson, Roseville, a
3 variance to the City Sign Ordinance which would allow the construction of a
4 55 square foot per side, free standing, groundhugging, monument type sign in lieu
5 of the existing pylon roof sign of the same size on Hardees Restaurant at 4004
6 Silver Lake Road. The sign, to be constructed on a two foot high planter of
7 masonry grade construction, with less than a foot of empty space between the
8 planter and' the sign for greenery; with the total sign height no more than 8
9 feet above grade; and to be located east of the existing Hardees Restaurant
10 building, as indicated on the site plan provided by the petitioners,. which should
11 also become part of this motion.
12
13 In granting the variance to allow a commercial free standing sign, the Commission
14 finds that:
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16 1 . Precedents for granting similar variances for monument type sign had been
17 established in the immediate vicinity for the St. Anthony Townhomes, Goodyear
18 Tire Center, and Cadwallader Realty, etc. ;
19
20 2. No opposition to the sign was expressed during the December 2nd Planning
21 Commission hearing or to staff prior to the hearing; and
22
23 3. The applicants have consistently followed up on earlier agreements they had
24 with the City related to this property.
25
26 Motion carried unanimously.
• 27
28 At 10: 15 P.M. the hearing was opened on the request from Roger Bona to add a
29 triangular addition to the Standard Station at the corner of 27th Avenue N.E.
30 and Kenzie Terrace N.E. which would result in a 20 foot setback from Kenzie
31 Terrace where the ordinance requires 35 feet. The request also included a lot
32 split between the station and bakery properties, both of which Mr. Bona owns,
33 which would be necessary to assure adequate setbacks on the west side of the
34 gas station building.
35
36 The customary letter informing the petitioner that he must be present for the
37 hearing had been sent to Mr. Bona, Mr. Childs said, and the Manager indicated
38 he was surprised at the station manager' s absence because he had just talked to
't 39 him about the project, at the same time he had also advised Mr. Bona to discuss
' 40 his plans with the neighbors before the hearing. John Jadnak, 2805 - 27th
r
41 Avenue N.E. , had been present earlier that evening, and when the meeting went on
42 longer than he could remain, had told Mr. Childs he was concerned that the
43 proposed addition might lessen even further the parking availability on the
44 station property which is a problem for him now. The Manager said he thought it
45 was unfortunate that Mr. Bona had not discussed the new addition with his
46 neighbor as Mr. Childs had advised him to do.
47
48 Mr. Childs recommended the Commission table the matter until January during
49 which time he would urge the applicant to contact his neighbor to see if some of
50 Mr. Jadnak's concerns about the project could not be alleviated.
51
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52 Motion by Commissioner Madden and seconded by Commissioner Bjorklund to table
• 53 the Bona request.
54
55 Motion carried unanimously.
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• 1 There was a short discussion of the Northgate Office Park signage and Commissioner
2 Hansen reported he and Commissioner Wagner had attended the Planning Institute
3' in November which they had found very helpful .
4
5 Commissioner Bjorklund addressed the fact that he would no longer be serving on
6 the Commission and told them he had enjoyed the opportunity of serving with
7 them over the years. He said he perceived the most competence in government to
8 be demonstrated at the local level and, conversely, the most incompetence at
9 the higher levels, and indicated that he had concluded after serving with this
10 Commission, everything would most likely go very well next year. The retiring
11 Commissioner indicated he perceived the most problems the City had had to do with
12 the enforcement of signing, fencing, and dog regulation.
13
14 Commissioner Bowerman responded by proposing a motion which thanked Commissioner
15 Bjorklund for' his contribution as well as the enthusiasm, cooperation, and
16 leadership he had demonstrated during his tenure with the Commission. His
17 motion also told Commissioner Bjor,klund the current Commissioners had enjoyed
18 his company and hoped someday he might rejoin them. The motion was seconded by
19 Commissioner Wagner and passed with the Chair, Hansen, Madden, Bowerman and
20 Wagner voting "Aye" and Commissioner Bjorklund abstaining .
21
22 With an . expressio_n_(.of "Merry Christmas to All ", the Chair asked for the following :
23
24 Motion by Commissioner Madden and seconded by Commissioner Wagner to adjourn
25 the meeting at 10:30 P.M.
26
27 Motion carried unanimously.
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32 Respectfully submitted,
33
34 Helen Crowe, Secretary
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