HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL MINUTES 09161986 Meeting Sheet
II
IIIIVIIIVIIIVIIIVIIIVIIIIIIIIIII
101769
BOX:21
Folder: PL MINUTES AND AGENDAS 1986
Document: PL MINUTES 09161986 -
CITY OF ST _ ANTHONY
• PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
September 16, 1986
1 The meeting was opened at 7:32 P.M. with the Pledge of Allegiance led by Chair
2 Franzese.
3
4 Present for roll call : Franzese, Hansen, Madden, Wagner, and Werenicz.
5
6 Absent: Jones (arrived at 7:33 P.M. ) and Bowerman.
7
8 Also present: David Childs, City Manager
9
10 Motion by Commissioner Madden and seconded by Commissioner Hansen to approve
11 the minutes for the-Commission meeting held August 19, 1.986, with the following
12 changes:
13
14 Page 1 , heading: Substitute "19" for "12" in the date.
15
16 Page 5, line 13: Substitute "than" for "that" between "greenery" and "he".
17
18 Page 8, line 6: Delete "defeat" at end of line.
• 19
20 Motion carried unanimously.
21
22 Commmissioner Jones and Counc.ilmember Ranallo. (who was just present to observe)
23 arrived at 7:33 P.M.
24
25 Commissioner Werenicz will represent the Commission at the September 23rd Council
26 meeting with Commissioner Hansen to substitute for him, if he can't make it.
27
28 At 7:34 P.M. the Chair opened the hearing to consider the request from the March
29 of Dimes Birth Defects Foundation et al to operate a charitable gambling facility
30- in about 9,000 square feet of vacant space next to the City's new liquor warehouse.
31 The three other charities who would be part of the operation would be:
32
33 *Disabled Veterans Recreation, Inc.
34 *V.K. Arrigoni, Inc. (half-way house for senior alcoholics)
35 *Sister Giovanni 's Guadalupe Area Project, Inc.
36
37 The notice of the hearing had been published in the September 3rd Bulletin and
38 mailed to all property owners of record within 350 feet of the building. No
39 one reported failure to receive the notice or objected to its content and Mr-.
40 Childs reported receiving no calls about the proposal . The Manager had advised
41 the Commissioners -in his September 11th memorandum that this type of activity
42 is allowed as a conditional use under "assembly hall" category in a commercial
43 zone, but they would be allowed to impose reasonable conditions related to hours
44 of operation, security, etc.
• 45
46 Dennis Cavanaugh, President of the C. G. Rein Company, who owns Apache Plaza,
47 said the decision had been made to lease the space for this purpose because
-2-
• 1 most shopping centers today offer a combination of recreational services like
2 bowling alleys and theaters along with retail and it seemed that combining
3 a charitable gambling facility with the existing bowling alley might attract
4 people to shop at the center. He indicated the center owners can control the
5 quality of the operation through the lease, which dictates the hours of operation
6 and signage.
7
g There would be 34,000 square feet of leasable space in the building after this
9 business goes in, Mr. Cavanaugh said, and he indicated he anticipated 17,000
10 square feet would be used in front of the building to be retail and the back
11 half might be developed for a more passive use like mini-warehouses. Neither
12 the proposed business or expected retail on the west side of the building should
13 in any way interfere with the new liquor store or the Country Store because
14 both entrances would be on the east side. And, Mr. Cavanaugh said, he understood
15 the liquor warehouse planned to reserve six parking stalls in front for quick
16 shopping trips.
17
18 Parking for the new facility should be no problem, Mr. Cavanaugh said, because
19 there are over 270 spaces available in front of the new facility, about 220
20 on the east side of the building, and over 60 next to the car wash on the west
21 side.
22
23 Maren Aipperspach of the March of Dimes Foundation saw the gambling proposition
24 as a good way of providing a regular cash flow for the organization rather
25 than to rely exclusively on unpredictable fund raisers.
26
27 Douglas Schmidt of Kimball , Minnesota, who said he is director of a very successful
28 bingo hall in St. Cloud told the Commissioners he had been authorized to represent
29 the Guadalupe Area Project. He told Commissioner Madden the reason they hadn't
30 just applied for a bingo license was because of state restrictions on charitable
31 gambling which allowed only 50% of the adjusted income from bingo, but 60%
32 for pull tabs, raffles, paddle wheels and tipboards. Only bingo, pull tabs
33 and raffles would be used at this location, he said.
34
35 Mr. Schmidt said it is "literally necessary" to have pull tabs to come under
36 the state restrictions because bingo alone would never support the 30 or 40
37 workers needed to run the bingo games and no additional workers are needed
38 to add the pull tab portion of the operation.
39
40 The fund raiser went on to say:
41
42 1 . 55% of their bingo customers in St. Cloud came from outside that City;
43
44 2. Most players were from 35 to 60 years old and seemed to like to play in a
45 non-alcoholic setting;
46
47 3. It is necessary to retain the poorly attended games to create an image of a
48 - profitable business and if you skip one night the customers become confused
49 about just when you're actually open; and
50
51 4. A good game in an environment like the building in St. Anthony would attract
•
52 more people than a less expensive basement.
53
54 Mr. Schmidt said the figure of 200 which he had given Mr. Childs before the hear-
55 ing had only represented the number of people who could be expected to play on an
3-
• 1 average night. On a busy night when there are special promotions, there could
2 be between 300 and 400 people in attendance.
3
4 It now costs $10 per person to get into the hall and Mr. Schmidt stated that,
5 research has shown that the average bingo player could be expected to lose
6 between $5 and $6 a night. This does not include losses with pull tabs, for
7 which no more than $50 in check cashing per person is allowed. Mr. Schmidt
8 told Commissioner Hansen he had arrived at those estimates by researching the
9 demographics of the area and not specific games in this area. A neutral area
10 like the Apache location would probably attract more Protestants who are not
11 comfortable playing in a Catholic Church as well as some people who wouldn't
12 care to go to a VFW hall , Mr. Schmidt said.
13
14 Commissioner Madden reported he had talked to someone in the Minnestoa Charities
15 Review office who had absolutely no knowledge whatever about the Disabled Veterans
16 group who would be associated with the March of Dimes and other charities in
17 this enterprise and had indicated to the Commissioner that as far as that person
18 knew the organization had not registered with the Department of Commerce as
19 required to do business in Minnesota. the Commissioner said he would be very
20 uncomfortable recommending approval of an organization which didn't meet the
21 Charity Review's guidelines.
22
23 Mr. Schmidt said the reason the group might not have registered is because
24 they operate a wilderness retreat for disabled veterans which is totally funded
25 by the state, who also gave them the land on which they have their retreat.
26 He said he had elsewhere in his possession copies of their federal tax returns,
• 27 articles of incorporation and by-laws as well as the state tax exemption number.
28
29 Mr. Schmidt said he is also associated with Allied Charities of Minnesota,
30 and indicated that organization was also "very concerned about the charitable
31 gambling image". He indicated he anticipated that with a higher attendance
32 at the St. Anthony location, it might be possible to reduce the $10 charged
33 at the door. With the cost of the lease less than 150 customers would cause
34 them to lose money and Mr. Chuck Wheeler of St. Cloud reiterated that the 200
35 figure quoted by Mr. Childs had been given as an average attendance number,
36 below which it would be impossible for.- the charities to meet the differentials
37 which the state reviews on an annual basis. Mr. Wheeler reiterated that with
38 large foundations like McKnight weaning the established charities from dependence
39 on their help, this type of activity provides steady income for charities between
40 fund raisers.
41
42 Mr. Cavanaugh said the new business would have a $150,000,000 retail base at
43 Apache to draw on and they would also benefit from the center's promotions.
44
45 Commissioner Jones estimated 50% of the City's liquor stores' business was
46 conducted between 4:00 and 8:00 P.M. and he wondered what effect 350 additional
47 people coming into the area might have on the liquor business when it came
48 to parking. Mr. Cavanaugh said he had seen for himself that 75% of the Country
49 Store customers shop before 6:30 P.M. and had noticed earlier that night that
50 their common parking lot was almost empty.
51
• 52 When the Commissioner asked whether it might not be better in terms of parking
53 to locate this business in the empty space near the car wash, which would be
54 closed when the bingo parlor is open, the Rein executive said with 2,800 parking
55 spaces in the center, he could foresee no parking problems for any of the businesses
-4-
• 1 in that building, even if some customers might have to walk a short distance
2 to reach a particular business.
3
4 Mr. Schmidt told Commissioner Werenicz there had been no problems in St. Cloud
5 with only one security person to watch over the games, occasionally scout the
6 parking lot, and escort the "big pot" winners to their cars.
7
8 Mr.. Schmidt said he understood it is not difficult to get a variance to the
9 state's requirement that allowed only two bingo sessions per week per charity.
10 A real effort would be made to equalize income between charities with special
11 promotions, including raffles permitted any group experiencing low turnouts.
12
1.3 Commissioner Wagner said he works at the Shrine bingo games and agreed with
14 Mr. Schmidt that most bingo players are chain smokers, making good ventilation
15 essential .
16
17 There was no public opposition to the permit and the hearing was closed at
18 8:22 P.M.
19
20 When Commissioner Madden stated that with questions related to the disabled
21 Vets organization unanswered, he would be very uncomfortable recommending Council
22 approval of this project. Commissioner Jones told him Mr. Childs could probably
23 clear the matter up before the Council meeting. Mr. Wheeler indicated he was
24 certain the missing information could easily be found and apologized that time
25 restraints had resulted in his not having that information at his fingertips
26 that evening. The Manager commented that he perceived with the lead applicant
•
27 being the March of Dimes identifying its associates wouldn't change the use
28 for which the permit is being requested. Commissioner Hansen disagreed, saying
29 he wanted to be certain "the City would be approving businesses with good
30 reputations and it appears the Charities Review Council had never heard of
31 the Disabled Veterans Recreation, Inc.".
32
33 Commissioner Wi4-4 `iclz agreed the missing documentation could probably be provided
34 before the Council meeting, but his main concern was whether one security person
35 would be enough for a business with a capacity for 400 players, even with no
36 alcohol serviced. He said he also questioned whether 9,000 square feet could
37 accommodate that number of players. Mr. Schmidt was permitted to respond and
38 said itis estimated that 20 square feet would be needed for each player, which
39 meant the building's capacity would be 450.
40
41 The Chair indicated she had a "good feeling" about the request knowing that
42 Mr. Cavanaugh was satisfied with them as tenants. She said she perceived the
43 security guard might be merely a figurehead since the charities would probably
44 provide their own security. Commissioner Jones said he viewed this proposal
45 as similar to the Alternative Bar (non-alcoholic) in the St. Anthony shopping
46 center where, as Mr. Schmidt had indicated had been true with the St. Cloud
47 operation, the security problem had been to occasionally eject someone who
48 was drunk from the premises.
49
50 Commissioner Wagner reported only one security person was needed at the Shrine
51 bingo games, but there were no pull tabs sold at that location. Commissioner
• 52 Hansen commented that he had observed at the Tri-City Legion Club in New Brighton
53 that there was a big difference between the people who play bingo and those
54 who prefer pull tabs as he perceived the fund raisers had recognized when they
55 refused to cash more than $50 in checks for that type of gambler. Mr. Schmidt
-5-
• 1 responded by saying state law prohibits anyone under 18 purchasing pull tabs
2 and no person under 16 would be allowed to play bingo unless they are accompanied
3 by an adult because it would be distracting to have younger kids running around
4 during the games.
5
6 Commissioner Madden reiterated that he would prefer having the questions about
7 one of the charities who are applicants for the permit cleared up before the
8 Commission recommends approval by the Council . The Chair responded by indicating
9 she was certain Mr. Childs would be able to provide the missing documentation
10 before the Council meeting and she reminded the Commissioner that it would
11 be up to the Council to make the final decision based on what information it
12 gets at that meeting.
13
14 As Commissioner Jones was developing a motion, Mr. Schmidt indicated he would
15 like to have any limit on hours of operation extended to 10:30 P.M. Mr. Cavanaugh
16 indicated that would be no problem for him.
17
18 Motion by Commissioner Jones and seconded by Commissioner Werenicz to recommend
19 the Council grant a conditional use permit for an assembly hall in a commercial
20 zone to the March of Dimes Birth Defects Foundation et al to operate a charitable
21 gambling facility at 2500 - 38th Avenue N.E. on the condition the applicants:
22
23 1 . meet all requirements of the Minnesota Charities Review Council regarding
24 registration with the Department of Commerce;
25
26 2. provide adequate security in the facility and parking areas;
• 27
28 3. limit the bingo 'sessions to 9 per week;
29
30 4. close by 10:30 P.M. ;
31
32 5. allow no alcohol to be consumed ,on_�lthe;'premi ses;rand
33
34 6. prohibit anyone under 16 from the premises and to require young people
35 between 16 and 18 to be accompanied by an adult.
36
37 In recommending Council approval , the Commission finds that the conditional
38 use permit:
39
40 a. is one of the conditional uses specifically listed for the zoning district
41 in which it is located;
42
43 b. will not be detrimental to the health, safety or general welfare of persons
44 residing or working in the vicinity or injurious to property values or
45 improvements in the vicinity;
46
47 c. is necessary or desirable at the above location to provide a service or
48 a facility which is in the interest of public convenience and will con-
49 tribute to the general welfare of the neighborhood or community; and
50
51 d• there was no public opposition to the permit being granted.
• 52
5 3 The following preceded a vote on the motion:
54
55
-6-
• 1 Motion by Commissioner Madden and seconded by Commissioner Hansen to table
2 action on the permit request until questions about the Disabled Veterans organization
3 are cleared up.
4
5 Voting on the motion to table:
6
7 Aye: Madden and Hansen.
8
9 Nay: Franzese, Jones, Wagner, and Werenicz.
10
11 Motion not carried.
12
13 Voting on the original motion to recommend the Council grant the permit:
14
15 Aye: Werenicz, Jones, Franzese, and Wagner.
16
17 Nay: Madden and Hansen.
18
19 Motion carried.
20
21 Commissioner Hansen said that in his opinion there had been too many changes
22 made in the application from what was provided the Commission prior to the
23 hearing, namely that the facility capacity was increased from 200 to 450 persons
24 a session; no reference was made to the addition of pull tabs; and the hours
25 of operation were extended a half hour during the hearing.
26
• 27 The hearing was opened at 9:02 P.M. to consider': Cher_request��fr.om 'Roberti.I.PRa;rme•lee
28 for a variance from -the Zoning Ordinance setback regulations to allow construction
29 of a garage addition and breezeway which would bring the requested additions
30 to the same level of non-conforming encroachment as the existing house at 2501
31 Pahl Avenue N.E.
32
33 The applicant was not present for the,, hearing�-and:-the�';Manager, repor,tddhhel;had
34 discovered after the agenda packets had gone out that the sketch, which had-
-35 been enclosed was inaccurate since it did not indicate there were actually
36 two garages on the property, which would change the nature of the variance
37- completely. Mr. Childs suggested the Commission hold the hearing to take any
38 testimony in opposition to the project and then table the matter until accurate
39 description of the property can be obtainedlfr,;omthe applicant. He said although
40 not legally required to do so, he would probably republish the notice of the
41 hearing-with-- aniamended�,deser,,ipti:on of--the;,vari--ance -whi'_c_h-.would�-b--,r.equ-ire_d
42 and send notices to the same neighbors who had received the first notice.
43 --
l 44 Jos: T. Peterson, 3976 Dellview Avenue, Arden Hills; said he understood Mr.
45 Parmelee was out of town and had asked Mr.- Peterson's friend to represent him
46 at the hearing. That friend in turn was called away by a death in the family
47 and Mr. Peterson had agreed to come to the meeting although he knew very little
t
48 about the project.
49
50 There was no one present to speak in opposition to the variance and the hearing
51 was closed at 9:08 P.M. for the following motion:
52
• 5 3 Motion by Commissioner Madden and seconded by Commissioner Hansen to table
54 action on the Parmelee variance request until more accurate informati-on of
55 the project has been provided by the applicant.
-7-
• 1 Motion carried unanimously.
2
3 The meeting was recessed until 9:10 P.M. when the Chair opened -the heari,r.g-:to
4 consider a request from Bryon Schroeder, 3115 Johnson Street N.E. , Minneapolis,
5 for a variance from the Zoning Ordinance setback regulations to allow construction
6 of a home at 3520 Silver Lake Road with a front yard setback of 63 feet where
I the average alignment of adjacent homes is from 30 to 40 feet.
8
9 When the Chair read the notice of the hearing, no one present reported failure
10 to receive it or objected to its content.
11
12 Those present to discuss the proposal were the applicant, Wendy Clonis, 3115
13 Johnson Street N.E. ; Lee Lawrick, 3626 Edward Street N.E. ; and John Forsberg,
14 3513 Belden Drive N.E. Mr. Forsberg, whose home is directly west of the subject
15 property, said he would not oppose the City granting the setback variance as
16 long as he is provided some assurance that when the house is built on the hill
17 behind him the runoff won't cause drainage problems for his home which is between
18 five and ten feet lower. He said when he built his home in 1966, a building
19 inspector named Shaughnessy had refused to issue him a building permit until
20 he had cut his lot down to the street level and the matter had ended up in
21 court when Melba Evanson, the owner of the lots next to him on Belden and behind
22 him on Silver Lake Road, had protested the backsloping on her property.
23
24 Mr. Childs said he had been unable to discern just what happened in that case-- .
25 but couldn't personally see why a house couldn't be built on a hill as many
26 are nowdays. He said he perceived the City may have "goofed" in that case,
•
27 20 years ago, and agreed with Mr. Schroeder that the error should not be compounded
28 with his property.
29
30 Mr. Larwick said he had bought this property eight years ago and, since the
31 lot tapers to the north in back, the existing embankment behind Mr. Forsberg's
32 home should not be a factor in the drainage onto his property. He said he
33 perceived that would be verified before the building permit is issued to Mr.
34 Schroeder.
35
36 Commissioner Jones commented that he agreed that the elevations should not
37 be germane to this case as= long as:-they don't`impactoon�t—he.lse,tbacks..
38
39 Mr. Childs read that portion of the City Ordinance which would be relevant
40 to the request before the Commission and stated that he felt certain it would
41 be possible to handle the slope of the undeveloped lots in such a manner as
42 to avoid drainage problems for Mr. Forsberg or any other Belden neighbor.
43
44 Ms. Clonis gave the Commissioners a copy of the house plans and Mr. Schroeder
45 pointed out that he planned to build a one story, three bedroom rambler with
46 a tuckunder garage on the front which should cause no runoff problems for Mr.
47 Forsberg's property. He said he knew he had to do something about the sharp
4 8 slope between the properties and indicated he would be glad to show his grading
49 plans to his neighbor. The applicant said he planned to replace the rough
50 shrub line between their properties which might help somewhat.
51
•
52 The Manager's September 11th memorandum and comments about the requested setbacks
53 were taken into consideration when the recommendations to the Council were
54 prepared.
55
_g_
• 1 No other neighbors were present to provide input and the Manager had advised
2 he had received no calls about the project except one related to how the property
3 was going to be graded. The hearing was closed at 9:37 P.M.
4
5 Commissioner Madden said he perceived this lot had a unique topography as compared
6 to its neighbors because it is on a hill . Commissioner Hansen agreed saying
7 he could see where Mr. Schroeder would have an awfully steep driveway if the
8 City made him construct his garage any closer to the street. Commissioner
9 Jones said he was glad to see only a one story home was going to be constructed
10 on that hill .
11
12 Motion by Commissioner Madden and seconded by Commissioner Werenicz to recommend -
13 the Council grant a 252 foot variance to the Zoning Ordinance requirement for
'14 average alignment of adjacent homes to allow Bryon Schroeder, 3115 Johnson
15 Street N.E. , Minneapolis, to construct the home he proposes at 3520 Silver
16 Lake Road with a front yard setback of 63 feet finding that:
17
18 1 . the proposal meets all Ordinance side and rear yard setback requirements
19 and the proposed structure would fit in well with the other homes in that block;
20
21 2. the placement of the house will not adversely affect the front yard visibility
22 of adjacent homes and would provide the applicant with an alternative to
23 living so close to the traffic noise and congestion on Silver Lake Road;
24
25 3. the applicant had answered all three questions in the- Petition for a Variance
26 affirmatively as required by Minnesota and City statutes; and
• 27
28 4. no one spoke against the total concept of the setback per se during the
29 hearing.
30
31 Motion carried unanimously.
32
33 Commissioner Hansen requested the Manager to check on the, installation of the
34 "right turn only" sign which the City had directed the Nativity Church to put
35 up on the south exit from the parking lot because Sunday he had narrowly missed
36 hitting a car making a turn in the wrong direction towards Silver Lake Road.
37 The Commissioner commented that he was still convinced that driveway was constructed
38 too close to the intersection.
39
40 Commission comments related to the proposed ordinance amendment dealing with
41 vehicle parking, occupancy by unrelated individuals, and businesses conducted
42 from City homes were recorded by the City Manager for submission to the Council ,
43 September 23rd, including agreement about limiting the number of licensed vehicles
44 in the front yard.
45 There was general agreement that there was no need for more than three unrelated
47 g
individuals to live in the same single family residence except in special circumstances
i
48 like extended families, exchange students, and, as Commissioner Madden mentioned,
49 rectories and convents.
50
51 Commissioner Werenicz said he had personally seen the need for such an ordinance
• 52 when Reverend Krueger had rented his property to five girls all of whom have
53 to park their cars on the street or in the driveway because the garage is so
54 full not even one car can be parked inside.
55
-9-
1 Mr. Childs said the ordinance would be written to assure that any vehicle (self-
2 propelled and motorized) which is not currently registered or roadworthy has
3 to be stored undercover and that there could be no vehicles parked in the front
4 yard except on what Commissioner Madden termed would have to be "concrete -
5 either asphaltic or bituminous".
6
7 Chair Franzese said she agreed with this requirement but perceived there might -
8 be valid reasons for parking cars in front of the house like her own where
9 she would soon be having four of her children driving cars..
10
11 When the question was raised whether boats and trailers could be stored in
12 fenced in back yards, Mr. Childs said he perceived the City could do something
13 about zoning to provide certain level of aesthetics for front yards but he
14 wondered whether the City might be going too far by trying to impose the same
15 restrictions for the back- yards.
16
17 When the problem with a bus being parked on residential property for a long
18 period of time was:brough.tup, +Commissione r Werenicz .suggested the _City:, might
19 be able to force its removal on the grounds that, with the possibility of gasoline
20 and oil leaks, it might have become "environmentally dangerous" .
21
22 Commissioner Jones suggested there might be some advantages for the Manager
23 to get the reaction to the ordinance relating to unrelated individuals from
24 the owners of some of the largest apartment complexes in St. Anthony. Mr.
25 Childs said that was a good idea because they might even appreciate knowing
25 the city was developing an ordinance which could support some of the actions
• 27 they have to take in response to similar problems with unit residency and vehicle
28 parking on their properties.
29
30 Motion by Commissioner Madden and seconded by Commissioner Jones to adjourn
31 the meeting at 10:10 P.M.
32
33 Motion carried unanimously.
34
35
36
37 Respectfully submitted,
38
39 Helen Crowe, Secretary
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
. 52
53
54
55