HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL MINUTES 05161989 Meeting Sheet
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Box: 21
Folder: PL MINUTES AND AGENDAS 1989
Document: PL MINUTES 05161989
1 CITY OF ST. ANTHONY
• 2 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
3 May 16, 1989
4 The meeting was opened at 8:00 P.M. with the Pledge of Allegiance led
5 by Chair Madden. The opening had been delayed until the District #282
6 School Board election polls closed.
7 ROLL CALL
8 Present: Hansen, Wagner, Madden, Werenicz, Brownell,
9 Franzese (arrived at 8:04 P.M. )
10 Absent: London.
11 Also present: Susan L. VanderHeyden, Acting City Manager
12 Ray Nelson, Liquor Operations Manager
13 APRIL 5, 1989 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
14 Motion by Brownell, seconded by Hansen to approve with the following
15 changes:
16 Page 5: line 23 : Substitute "later" for "earlier" .
7 Page 14 line 27: Substitute 111987" for 111981".
8 Page 56, line 7: Substitute "written" for "rewritten" .
19 Motion carried unanimously.
20 Commissioner Hansen indicated the last paragraph on page 14 was quite
21 confusing for him because he had gotten clarification the previous year
22 that CDBG funds had been used only for senior programs and none for
23 child care as was stated in the minutes. Ms. VanderHeyden indicated she
24 would do further research on that and report back to him. She also
25 verified that a large CDBG allocation from Ramsey County had been made
26 towards the City's temporary carbon filtration facility the previous
27 year and the City would probably not be getting another Ramsey County
28 allocation for awhile.
29 COMMISSIONER HANSEN TO REPRESENT COMMISSION AT COUNCIL'S MAY 23RD
30 MEETING
31 NEW BUSINESS
32 Commissioners Indicate Reaction to Proposed Stonehouse Signage
3.3 The signage package plan which had been discussed at the last Council
34 meeting was attached to the Acting City Manager's May 9th memorandum
35 where she requested Commission review and comments.
1 Ms. VanderHeyden reiterated that the new canopy sign across the front
2 of the building was the one sign allowed for the business, but the half
• 3 barrel canopy sign which is proposed be to relocated over the west
4 entrance was one on which the Council was seeking Planning Commission
5 recommendation, taking into consideration only the two sides which would
6 show from the street and the fact that the Stonehouse is located on a
7 corner and can be seen from a number of streets. The Acting City
8 Manager also drew to the Commission's attention the fact that the total
9 sign surface (144 square feet) was under the 150 square feet allowed per
10 business.
11 Ray Nelson, the Liquor Operations Manager, indicated the BAR and GRILL
12 lettering would be painted over on the southern exposure which can't be
13 seen from the street anyway. He also explained to the Chair that the
14 Speakeasy Bar was not being used by the City except for rental purposes
15 at this time and he : perceived the sign at that entrance could be.
16 considered a type of directional sign which is usually allowed any
17 business. The BAR and LOUNGE lettering on the wall nearest the former
18 bottle sop could also be removed, although there would be nothing to
19 indicate that entrance if that was done.
20 Ms. VanderHeyden told Chair Madden the City's policy regarding the type
21 of hand lettered signs which announce special events, etc. was that
22 businesses are all allowed to put up such temporary signs for two weeks
23 after notifying the City. The Chair commented that regardless of the
24 City's policy, he thought such signage looked very "tacky" . Mr. Nelson
25 responded that he supposed they could use electronic ticker tape type
06 billboards like the neighboring Main Event and Brandywine, but they
7 would cost a lot of money and would be considered additional signage.
28 As a justification for the additional signage on the west side of the
29 building, Mr. Nelson pointed out that without that signage there was
30 nothing on that side to let drivers on Kenzie Terrace, St. Anthony
31 Boulevard or Silver Lake Road know what was inside the building.
32 When Commissioner Hansen commented that from reading the Council minutes
33 he had concluded the Council had already approved all the signage, Ms.
34 VanderHeyden said what they had approved had been the signage for the
35 front of the building but had indicated they would like the Planning
36 Commission's reaction to the additional signage on the west side which
37 would be the relocated half barrel canopy sign with lettering for the
38 STONEHOUSE and DINING and DANCING on the front and north side. The
39 Chair commented that the proposal was actually for two signs on that
40 side which, of course, was the same as had been allowed the Salvation
41 Army Thrift Store at Apache.
42 Commissioner Hansen said he didn't think the Commission should only be
43 consulted regarding the signage on the west side, perceiving their
44 consideration should be given instead to the whole signage package.
45 Commissioner Franzese told him she guessed that hadn't been done because
46 this was for a City-owned business which used its revenues to offset the
47 residents taxes. His response was that he was also concerned about
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1 taxes but perceived the signage at the gateway to St. Anthony should
• 2 give a good example to other businesses in the City.
3 Mr. Nelson said the Council's intent with the canopy sign in front was
4 to eliminate the existing unsightly RESTAURANT sign and substitute an
5 awning sign across the front which would be lit from the back. He
6 perceived it would dress up the building and would be good for the whole
7 City. He said using the canopy from the front of the building on the
8 west side represented a savings for the City as well.
9 When he mentioned how difficult it had been to get business at the SAV
10 I bottle shop back up where it was before the move to the building next
it to the Stonehouse, Commissioner Hansen said may be the signs on the
12 canopy should say On and Off Sale instead. The Liquor Manager
13 indicated that wouldn't be necessary because the copy on the pylon sign
14 was going to be changed to SAV LIQUORas indicated on the drawings he
15 then distributed.
16 Rod Johnson, who was present to discuss the changes in the Mid-America
17 Cheese Store in the St. Anthony Shopping Center commented that the
18 City's large pylon sign tended to take away from the effect of the new
19 signage the Center had just erected. Mr. Nelson reiterated that the
20 City's pylon had been up for 20 years and the only change which was
21 going to be made was to the copy. The Chair suggested Mr. Johnson might
22 want to contact the Council about his concerns through the Acting City
23 Manager.
&4 Planning Commission Recommendation
25 Motion by Franzese, seconded by Wagner to recommend the half barrel
26 canopy sign be moved to the west side of the Stonehouse building where
27 it would be functional for protecting customers from rain, etc. and
28 because of the fact that business is situated on a corner and needs
29 signage on that side. The Commission also perceives this signage would
30 incur little expense for the City since the sign is already in existence
31 on the other side of the building. The Commission also recommends that
32 the lettering for BAR and LOUNGE be removed from the front wall of the
33 building and that only the lettering on the sides of the barrel canopy
34 sign which show from the street be retained.
35 Motion carried unanimously.
36 Commission Recommends Giving Mid-America Another Six Months to Find a
37 Subtenant
38 Although no public hearing had been scheduled, the Commission's
39 recommendation was sought regarding the request from Mid-America
40 Dairymen, 1265 Grey Fox Road, Arden Hills that the City grant them a
41 temporary delay of enforcement for the combination of uses (retail in
42 the front of and the warehouse/storage in the rear) at the Mid-America
43 Cheese Store at 2912 Pentagon Drive in the St. Anthony Shopping Center.
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1 The combination of uses had been established by staff interpretation in
2 1987.
• 3 Staff Report
4 The Acting City Manager had advised the Commission in her May 12 , 1989
5 memorandum that since the retail operation had been closed in January,
6 the entire operation was no longer in conformance with the conditions
7 imposed by David Childs the former City Manager, which allowed the
8 combination of uses to exist. Her memorandum also reported the store
9 owners were now requesting the City grant a temporary delay of
10 enforcement for at six to 12 months to allow Mid-America to find a
11 subleasing retail use which would bring them into conformance with that
12 condition or to locate a tenant to sublease the entire space.
13 Ms. VanderHeyden told the Commissioners she perceived the
14 warehouse aspects of the combination would be valid only if there was
15 a retail use in the front portion of the store.
16 Commissioner Wagner commented that he perceived the understanding Mr.
17 Childs had with Mid-America was that the same business would operate
18 both portions of their space and if that was correct, Option A in Ms.
19 VanderHeyden's memorandum would be almost impossible since it would
20 probably be very difficult to find another retail type of business to
21 sublease the empty retail space for the two and a half years remaining
22 on Mid-America's lease with the shopping center.
&3 Proponents:
24 James Gammill, Manager of Member Services for Mid-America Dairymen,
25 reported
26 -The mix of uses in the St. Anthony Cheese Store was the same as that
27 carried out in 17 cooperatives for dairy farmer stores in South
28 Dakota, Minnesota, and Wisconsin.
29 -The main function of the St. Anthony Store had been to provide
30 supplies for the dairy farmers to operate their farms in a sanitary
31 manner by the distribution of materials like soap, sanitizers,
32 filters, paper towels, brushes, etc.
33 -Retail stores like the one in St. Anthony were intended to give the
34 farmers the opportunity to buy back some of the dairy products Mid-
35 America manufactured from their produce at locations where the
36 supplies were also assembled.
37 •In 1986, when the company was looking at the St. Anthony location as
38 a distribution center, they also perceived a little retail business
39 in conjunction with the distribution of supplies might be as
40 successful as other operations had been in other small towns like
41 Watkins, Winsted, Fergus Falls, Zumbrota, etc.
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1 -However, the St. Anthony store operated with very disappointing
02 returns all through 1987 and 1988 and the retail sales were
3 discontinued in January.
4 -His company is now seeking more time to look for a subtenant for the
5 retail portion or perhaps for the whole location while they were
6 continuing the distribution center.
7 •A commercial broker was now working on subleasing the space.
8 Charles Diessnire, 110 International Centre, Minneapolis, Attorney for
9 Mid-America indicated the broker had reported having some prospects for
10 subleasing the space and had been furnished a copy of the lease to
11 evaluate those prospects to see if they fit the terms of the lease. The
12 Attorney added that Mid-America perceived the failure of the shopping
13 center to upgrade the center as they had promised when the company
14 leased the space had resulted in many more vacant spaces which the
15 company realized could cause them problems with trying to sublease
16 their location. Mr. Diessnire reported it had been because of that
17 realization that he and Mr. Gammill had consulted Mr. Childs to find out
18 whether they could continue to operate their distribution business and
19 keep the retail space empty while they looked for a business to sublease
20 that space. Mr. Diessnire indicated further that:
21 -There was not a high traffic business and no signage would be needed
22 to identify the distribution portion because the only trucks which
23 had to find them were those the company owned which brought supplies
4 to the St. Anthony location to be assembled by order and sent out by
5 company trucks to the various stores throughout the three states in
26 which Mid-America operates.
27 -The trucks normally come to the St. Anthony store only the first four
28 days of the week with only occasional trips on Fridays.
29 When Commissioner Hansen said he had been concerned that a different
30 retail in the store might require signage of its own, Mr. Gammill
31 reiterated that there was no reason for identifying the distribution
32 center in the front of the store and reiterated that there would be
33 minimal traffic connected to the business in the back of the store which
34 should have no impact on the mall traffic at all.
35 Mr. Diessnire emphasized that Mid-America and the center owners shared
36 the same objective of finding a new tenant for the entire space and the
37 worst scenario for Mid-America would be to have someone take only the
38 retail and leave them with warehouse space which is too expensive for
39 them to operate. However, he said they were willing to stay there and
40 to keep the distribution business operational while they were looking
41 for a new tenant.
• 5
1 Planning Commission Recommendation
•2 Motion by Wagner, seconded by Brownell to recommend the Council grant
3 a six month delay of enforcement of conditions which staff two years
4 ago interpreted to allow a combination of uses for the purpose of
5 allowing the leaseholder the opportunity of subleasing the entire 9,377
6 square feet of space to a tenant or tenants as per Option B of the
7 Acting City Manager's May 12, 1989 memorandum on the issue.
8 Before the vote was taken, the following objections to the action which
9 was being proposed were voiced:
10 Rod Johnson, Eberhardt Manager of the St. Anthony Shopping Center,
it indicated he perceived that by delaying the enforcement of the
12 conditions for the life of Mid-America's lease, the City would be
13 guaranteeing that Mid-America would continue to use the 9, 377 square
14 feet of space in the back of their store as a distribution center for
15 which they would have to keep on paying rent which the center needs to
16 finance the improvements the owner is making on the center now. He said
17 if no single tenant is found for all 9,377 square feet in six months,
18 the City would be limiting the revenue potential for the center.
19 Commissioner Wagner said that wasn't what he was trying to do with his
20 motion, but he had felt impelled to word the motion in the manner he had
21 done because he perceived by allowing a different owner in the retail
22 space, the City would be establishing a warehouse use in the back which
23 the City Ordinance does not permit in a commercial zone. The
4 Commissioner said he thought the only reason the City Manager had
5 allowed the retail/warehouse/storage combination in 1987 had been
26 because the warehouse/storage operation had been so closely tied in
27 with the retail, which no longer operating. He confirmed for the
28 Chair's benefit that the purpose of his motion had been to give Mid-
29 America six months to look for the a conforming tenant to sublease the
30 space for the two and a half years remaining on Mid-America's lease.
31 He indicated he expected that after the six months have elapsed and if
32 no subtenant for both front and back is found, no operation of a
33 warehouse separate from the retail would be allowed because without the
34 retail the City would be allowing the continuance of a use which is not
35 allowed in a commercially zoned district.
36 Mr. Diessnire interjected that he wished he would have known that the
37 Commissioners were going to take action like that because he thought
38 they should realize just how serious the impact would be on his company.
39 The Attorney said he had not been present for the initial meetings
40 between Mr. Childs and Mid-America representatives, but during his and
41 Mr. Gammill's recent meeting with the City Manager before he left St.
42 Anthony, Mr. Childs had told them he did not view the delay in
43 enforcement as a problem as long as Mid-America was only asking for an
44 extension of the enforcement and not a variance or other change relating
45 to circumstances which are unique to Mid-America because of the
46 conditions under which the store had been operating since they went in
47 the center. Mr. Diessnire reported Mr. Childs had never indicated to
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1 them that the original permission was tied to Mid-America being both
2 a retail and wholesale business. The Attorney told the Commissioners
•3 the wholesale operation is geared for retail sales to Mid-America
4 membership only, similar to a Shopco operation and not really a
5 warehouse type of operation for which there would be many trucks running
6 back and forth. He said he could understand the Commission's concerns
7 about other types of warehouse operations which are very different from
8 what's now going on in the St. Anthony location.
9 Mr. Diessnire indicated Mid-America shared in the City's problems with
10 the owners waiting so long to fix up their shopping center, under which
11 his company "got trapped in a situation where the center is now doing
12 what they promised to do three years ago, but three years too late to
13 prevent the retail from having to be closed. " He said if the City did
14 what the Commission's motion suggested, it would be imposing severe
15 financial penalties on Mid-America. The Attorney then requested that
16 instead of proceeding with the motion in the form it had been made,
17 that staff contact Mr. Childs, who had structured this arrangement and
18 told the Mid-America representatives he wanted to follow through on that
19 original intent. Mr. Diessnire argued further that he could see no
20 more adverse effect on the public from having another user in the retail
21 portion of the store than had occurred when Mid-America had operated
22 both front and back businesses without them even being aware of the
23 combination.
24 When Commissioner Wagner asked the Attorney whether he thought the
25 City would have ever approved of an exclusive warehouse use in a retail
6 center, Mr. Diessnire replied "I would expect not. " The Commissioner
7 then told him he didn't think the City would be doing anything to Mid-
28 America except to enforce the ordinance and he perceived it would be
29 necessary to consult the City's Attorney before the Commission could
30 take action which would allow a warehouse operation in a commercial zone
31 and it should be up to him to decide whether the Mid-America operation
32 could be viewed as a quasi-retail operation as their attorney had
33 claimed.
34 The Chair then summarized the motion and asked for a vote.
35 Aye: Wagner, Brownell , Hansen.
36 Nay: Franzese, Madden, Werenicz.
37 Motion not carried.
38 Mr. Diessnire then requested he be allowed to propose a motion which
39 would recommend to the Council that enforcement of the ordinance would
40 be delayed until November 30, 1991 , under the condition that Mid-America
41 would exercise reasonable efforts to locate a tenant for the entire
42 facility would sublease the retail portion of the space which is not
43 being used now. Mid-America would also agree to stay in the portion
44 they are now using and to pay rent for that space through the end of
45 their lease.
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1 Commissioner Hansen said if the Commission kept the original motion,
02 there would have been nothing to prevent Mid-America from requesting a
3 further extension if after six months, the Commission perceived they had
4 made a good faith effort to find a tenant for the entire space. He said
5 he perceived that the City wasn't foreclosing- on the issue altogether
6 but was instead asking Mid-America to do everything they could in six
7 months and then to return for further action from the Commission or
8 Council based on their possible inability to find an acceptable tenant
9 for the space.
10 Commissioner Franzese said she perceived a strong belief of the
11 Commission that the issue should be held over for at least six months
12 and made the following:
13 Motion by Franzese, seconded by Werenicz to delay enforcement of the
14 conditions imposed on the Mid-America Cheese Store for six months during
15 which the company would make reasonable efforts to find a subtenant for
16 the entire premises at 2912 Pentagon Drive and if unsuccessful in
17 finding that subtenant would have to return to attempt to work out
18 another agreement with the City.
19 Motion carried unanimously.
20 Ms. VanderHeyden indicated she would in the meantime be rechecking with
21 Mr. Childs to clarify whether he had meant to allow the combination only
22 because it was for the same operator or whether he thought the
23 enforcement should be delayed no matter who operated the front or back.
04 Mr. Diessnire said the way he understood the motion was that the
25 Commission was recommending Mid-America be given six months to see how
26 they perform and within that six months the company would either be
27 coming back to the City to report they could find no subtenants for the
28 entire facility or if they found a subtenant for the retail only, to
29 request a delay of enforcement based on a combination of that subtenant
30 and continuance of Mid-America's wholesale operation. Commissioner
31 Wagner concurred with that understanding, saying that the City in the
32 meantime could be consulting its own attorney to determine whether the
33 City Ordinance could allow the latter.
34 Mr. Johnson reminded the Commissioners that the Coast to Coast store
35 would be having its grand opening at 9:00 a.M. the following morning.
36 He indicated business at the hardware store had been very good even
37 without advertising. The center manager also reported a grand
38 reopening of the shopping center was planned for at which time the
39 center owners' New York representatives would be present. These
40 ceremonies would be followed by a big sales promotion sponsored by the
41 owners.
42 Mr. Johnson reported the other activities the center anticipated once
43 the new signage is up, which included repainting all the store fronts
44 and the canopy support columns. The Center Manager replied to
45 Commissioner Wagner's questions related to existing signs on the back
8
1 of the center buildings by indicating he thought the agreement with the
2 City called for the removal of all signage except that which was being
i3 installed over the store fronts. Door identification would probably
4 remain, but Mr. Johnson requested staff write him a letter indicating
5 any of the signs in that area which the City considered problematic so
6 he could show them to the tenants when he asked them to remove that
7 signage.
8 The discussion of the Cheese Store was resumed with Commissioner Wagner
9 telling Mr. Johnson he perceived neither the center nor the City wanted
10 warehousing in the center. The Center Manager said if the City allowed
it a different retail business in front of the store until Mid-America's
12 lease expired, that store owner should understand that he or she had the
13 option of relocating in the center if a subtenant could be found for the
14 entire space.
15 Commission Recommends Temporary Trailer and Additional Temporary Rental
16 Signs be Allowed Lang/Nelson
17 Specifics of the above requests had been given in the Public Works
18 Director's May 12th memorandum to which he had attached a copy of the
19 May 12th letter from the Lang/Nelson property manager who had sketched
20 in the proposed trailer placement location. The agenda packet also
21 included a prototype of Gelco Space's 12 by 44 foot trailer.
22 Ms. VanderHeyden recalled the problems the City had with getting the
23 Kenzington sales trailer removed and noted that Lang/Nelson had included
4 a start and end date for use of the trailer. She indicated the
5 additional directional rental sign the developers are requesting would
26 be located north of the City fire station on the corner of the vacant
27 restaurant property at where it can be seen from Kenzie Terrace, St.
28 Anthony Boulevard, and Silver Lake Road.
29 Paul Brewer of Lang/Nelson was present and told the Commissioners:
30 -the proposed sign copy would contain only an arrow pointing towards
31 the apartment development as well as the project name;
32 -all other necessary information regarding the project like telephone
33 numbers, etc. , would be carried on the sign on the property;
34 -this directional sign would be professionally constructed of plywood
35 and color coordinated with the other sign;
36 -the developers have an agreement with the owners of the vacant
37 restaurant property which calls for removal of the sign should the
38 property be leased before May 1, 1990 the date the developers would
39 like to keep the sign up until;
40 -the developers hope to have the first Autumnwoods apartment building
41 ready for occupancy by September or October, 1989; the second building
42 is the senior building which, although it would probably be up by
0, 9
1 January or February, 1990, because of the hesitancy of its occupants
02 to move in winter would probably not be occupied until May 1, 1990;
3 the second market rate building should come on line shortly
4 thereafter in June;
5 -theconstruction trailer which is on the site now wwill be located
6 on the Lowry side of the property next to the third building.
7 Planning Commission Recommendation
8 Motion by Hansen, seconded by Wagner to recommend the Council grant the
9 requests from Lang/Nelson to erect:
10 1. The proposed temporary trailer on the construction site to be used as
11 a rental office as requested from June 1 , 1989 to September 28, 1989.
12 2. The proposed directional sign not to exceed 4 feet by 8 feet in the
13 location requested on the vacant restaurant property for a period not
14 to exceed May 1, 1990 subject to staff review of maintenance and
15 upkeep of the sign and assurance that a sign in that location won't
16 obstruct traffic.
17 The Commission makes these recommendations finding the requests meet all
18 City Zoning Ordinances and requirements of the City's Sign Codes.
19 Motion carried unanimously.
0 ADJOURNMENT
21 Motion by Brownell, seconded by Hansen to adjourn the Planning
22 Commission at 9:20 P.M.
23 Motion carried unanimously.
24 Respectfully submitted,
25 Helen Crowe, Secretary
26 :cjk
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