HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL MINUTES 06201989 Meeting Sheet
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Box: 21
Folder: PL MINUTES AND AGENDAS 1989
Document: PL MINUTES 06201989
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1 PLANNING COMMISSION
�2 MINUTES
3 JUNE 20, 1989
4 The meeting was opened at 7:30 P.M. with the Pledge of Allegiance led
5 by Chair Madden.
6 ROLL CALL
7 Present: Brownell, Franzese, Hansen, London, Madden, Wagner.
8 Absent: Werenicz.
9 Also. present: Susan VanderHeyden, Acting City Manager.
10 MAY 16, 1989 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
11 Motion by Hansen, seconded by Brownell to approve with the following
12 changes:
13 Page 1, line 18: Change 11156" to 1115 or 16'. "
14 Page 4, line 10: Delete word "at. "
15 Page 6, line 27: Add "is" between "which" and "no."
16 Page 7, line 42: Add word "or" after "facility. "
&7 Page 10, line 5: Change "wwill" to "will. "
18 Motion carried unanimously.
19 COMMISSIONER WAGNER To REPRESENT PLANNING COMMISSION AT JUNE 27. 1989
20 COUNCIL MEETING
21 PUBLIC HEARINGS
22 Burlington Northern Metro Community Credit, 2500 Highway 88 - Sian
23 Variance Request
24 Chair Madden introduced the request from Burlington Northern Metro
25 Community Credit for a sign variance to change the existing copy on the
26 two signs located at the northeast and southwest roof of the drive-
27 through teller facility from 32 square feet (16 square feet each) to
28 144.25 square feet (72.12 square feet each) . This request is based on
29 a name change to include the word "Community." The signage would be
30 rearranged to a two-line layout so as to include the name change. No
31 one present reported failure to receive the notice or objected to its
32 content.
33 Staff Report
34 Chair Madden pointed out 'that the petitioner already has a wall sign
•35 which reads, "BN Metro Credit Union, Savings Account, Loan Service,
36 Traveler's Checks, Direct Deposit, IRA, Checking, Drive-up Teller. "
1 Acting City Manager VanderHeyden informed the Commission that the
Wpetitioner is allotted 150 square feet of signage. She stated that
signage on the drive-through was chosen in lieu of a sign on Northgate
4 Office Park Building, and such a variance was granted in October of
5 1986.
6 Chair Madden opened the public hearing at 7:37 P.M.
7 Frank Stieve, Treasurer-Manager of Burlington Northern Community Credit
8 Union
9 Al Sterner, Attracta Sign
10 Mr. Stieve stated that the petitioner, a State-chartered credit union,
11 had recently been authorized by the State of Minnesota to increase the
12 size of their operations to that of a community credit union serving St.
13 Anthony, MoundsView, New Brighton, Arden Hills, Shoreview, and most of
14 Roseville. He explained that the sign referred to by Chair Madden is
15 an obscure sign located on the night depository. He presented
16 photocopies of the proposed signage to the Commission, and introduced
17 Al Sterner from Attracta Signs, who has been commissioned to make the
18 new signage.
19 Commissioner Franzese asked whether the dimensions of the individual
20 letters would be increasing. Mr. Sterner responded that he believed the
21 existing letters were ten or twelve inches high, and that to add the
22word "Community" to the existing letters required two lines rather than
W3 one, resulting in increased square footage. He pointed out that the
24 proposed signage will exceed 140 square feet because it is, in effect,
25 a double-faced sign visible from both the north and the south.
26 Mr. Sterner then indicated that the signage referred to by Chair Madden
27 consists of individual vinyl letters mounted on the wall at the night
28 depository. That lettering is the only lettering designating the
29 petitioner's occupancy of the premises. He stated that that lettering
30 is not adequately visible, and that the petitioner would like to
31 increase the visibility of signage designating its occupancy as well as
32 represent its correct name to the public. He proposed that the sign be
33 brown or bronze letters on an ivory background panel.
34 Chair Madden restated Commissioner Franzese's question regarding the
35 dimensions of the individual letters. Acting City Manager VanderHeyden
36 responded that the size of the old and the new letters is twelve inches
37 in height, and indicated that the increased height results from the
38 background panel. Mr. Sterner explained that he had figured that square
39 footage by measuring the amount of space the letters themselves would
40 take up without the background panel, and suggested that cutting the
41 background panel down to size would spoil the aesthetics of the sign.
42 Commissioner Hansen suggested that the word "Community" would in fact
43 fit on the same line with the existing words in the sign. He questioned
44 whether the intent of the petitioner was not only to correctly identify
• 2
1 the business but to obtain more visibility by means of the sign. Hansen
•2 noted that increased visibility was not stated in the request as a
3 reason for requiring the proposed signage, although the petitioner had
4 just indicated in his hearing testimony that two colors would increase
5 the visibility of the sign. Hansen stated that he agreed that the sign
6 as it now exists is not very visible, but one of the reasons he voted
7 for the original October, 1986, variance was that the sign was not a
8 gaudy, two-color, 144 square foot sign.
9 Mr. Sterner reviewed the fact that the letters are twelve inches high
10 and that the sign was 24 feet wide. Commissioner Hansen indicated that
11 there was no dispute as to how the measurements were arrived at. He
12 restated his question as to whether the petitioner's intent was merely
13 to update the sign or to gain more visibility. He stated that he would
14 support the addition of the word "Community" but that he would oppose
15 a two-color sign which was not listed in the request.
16 Mr. Stieve replied that he had received comments about difficulty in
17 reading the sign when it had first been erected, and that he felt now
18 was the appropriate time to request a background panel as well as the
19 addition of the word "Community. " Commissioner Hansen reminded the
20 petitioner that the Commission had made the same suggestion to the
21 petitioner at the time of the October, 1986, variance request. Mr.
22 Stieve agreed, but commented that at the time he was working on
23 obtaining a community charter.
24 Commissioner Brownell agreed that the word "Community" would fit on one
0,5 line with the rest of the words, and that adding a background to the
26 one-line sign would satisfactorily increase its visibility. He felt
27 that increasing the square footage of the signage from 36 to 144 was
28 excessive considering the, small size of the depository.
29 Mr. Sterner felt unsure that all the letters would fit on one line. He
30 pointed out that the picture distributed to the Commission was computer-
31 generated precisely to the dimensions of the space available. He
32 admitted that it might be possible to fit the sign into a 30 inch
33 vertical space rather than a 36 inch vertical space. He was concerned
34 that passing motorists would be able to read the sign and absorb its
35 message easily, and said that a crowded sign is a problem for the
36 motorist trying to read it and accomplishes little. He also raised the
37 possibility of shortening the ends, but cautioned against modifying the
38 proposed sign to the point where it became lettering or reading material
39 rather than a sign.
40 Commissioner Wagner commented that he had actually driven by the sign
41 and observed that there was sufficient blank space on the existing sign
42 to accommodate the word "Community" on one line. He felt that there was
43 no real need for blank space on either side of the lettering and that
44 a background would acceptably increase the sign's visibility.
45 Mr. Stieve said he did not want the lettering to appear "squashed. " Mr.
46 Sterner said that his company has twenty years' experience in creating
• 3
1 correct signs for their customers which comply with the rules of the
2 municipality they are working with. He again offered to compromise by
103 decreasing the vertical as well as shortening the ends of a two line
4 sign. He asked the Commission to clarify whether he was correct in
5 understanding that their primary concern was the total square footage
6 of the proposed sign.
7 Commissioner Franzese inquired whether the length of the signage was
8 correctly measured from the beginning of the first letter to the end of
9 the last, or whether it was measured from the beginning to the end of
10 the panel, or canopy, in this case. Commissioner Hansen referred to the
11 ordinance and answered that the size of the background panel was
12 considered to be the size of the sign. The Acting City Manager
13 commented that by measuring only the letters from end to end, any
14 background panel would then be considered a wall, which is a permanent
15 structure. Commissioner Brownell pointed out the distinction between
16 letters on a fascia board, such as those mounted in the St. Anthony
17 Village Shopping Center, and lettering on a background panel, and stated
18 that the proposal in question was clearly one, integral sign.
19 Commissioner Hansen asked Mr. Sterner whether he had been commissioned
20 to erect the original sign for the petitioner and whether there was a
21 reason he did not recommend the fascia board at that time. Mr. Sterner
22 responded that at the time the petitioner had only requested the letters
23 and wanted to get by with the minimum. Mr. Stieve agreed with that
24 interpretation.
0,5 Commissioner Brownell asked where the additional space would be gained
26 if the sign were to be reduced to 30 inches. Mr. Sterner demonstrated
27 how the two lines could be brought closer together without reducing the
28 actual size of the letters. He explained that the entire name of the
29 business should be displayed in the same size letters. Commissioner
30 Brownell asked whether there were options such as ten inch letters. Mr.
31 Sterner said that that was a possibility, but that he was taking the
32 approach of reducing the panel size first.
33 Commissioner Franzese asked Mr. Stieve to compare the percentage of
34 their current drive-up business to the percentage of their projected
35 drive-up business after they become better known. Mr. Stieve replied
36 that currently drive-up business is approximately 15 percent of the
37 total and that he anticipated doubling that figure. He indicated that
38 he hopes to utilize the second drive-up area in the future in order to
39 reduce lobby traffic.
40 No one else was present to speak either for or against the variance and
41 the hearing was closed at 7:56 P.M.
42 Planning Commission Reaction
43 Commissioner Wagner advocated a one line sign, adding that the need to
44 correctly identify the business was unavoidable.
• 4
1 Commissioner Hansen agreed with Wagner, and expressed the opinion that
2 the sign would look better if the background went from one end of the
•3 drive-in to the other. He suggested mounting an 18 inch by 24 foot sign
4 which would amount to 36 square feet on each side or 72 square feet
5 total, considerably less than the 144.25 requested. He stated that he
6 would not object to a background for the lettering because the sign
7 would look neater and would provide the added visibility the petitioner
8 needs.
9 Commissioner Brownell agreed with the opinions expressed.
10 Commissioner Franzese voiced two concerns. Firstly, she felt that a two
11 line sign would look top-heavy. Secondly, she stated that her
12 understanding at the time of the granting of the original variance was
13 that it was justified by the amount of drive-up business, but was
14 surprised to hear that the majority of business was not drive-up. She
. 15 acknowledged the fact that, if the majority of the business is lobby
16 business, the building needs identification. She stated that at this
17 time she had no proposal to accommodate both those needs in a way
18 satisfactory to both the City and the business.
19 Chair Madden judged, without measuring, that the sign on the building
20 was approximately two feet wide by three feet long. He stated that the
21 sign read, "BN Metro Credit Union, Savings Account, Loan Service,
22 Traveler's Checks, Direct Deposit, IRA, Drive-up Teller" on successive
23 lines. He said that when one recognizes that the original sign was
24 erected in lieu of a sign on the wall, that a recommendation by the
*5 Commission that the square footage be reduced is justified.
26 Planning Commission Recommendation
27 Motion by Hansen, seconded by Brownell that Burlington Northern Metro
28 Community Credit Union be granted the request for a variance to the
29 existing -signage to add the word "Community," and that the wording in
30 "Metro Community Credit Union" be listed on one line as opposed to two
31 lines as requested, and they be permitted to back the existing lettering
32 with an ivory-colored metal panel not to -exceed the width of the
33 existing canopy, which is 24 feet, and the height of the panel not to
34 exceed 18 inches, allowing a total of 36 square feet per side, or 72
35 total square feet, and that the additional signage, as with the original
36 variance, be granted in lieu of a fascia sign on the building.
37 Commissioner Wagner offered an amendment to the motion, accepted by the
38 maker, that the request is granted to the existing sign variance:
39 Commissioner Franzese offered an amendment to the motion, seconded by
40 Brownell, accepted by the maker, that the recommendation for minimum
41 signage is in keeping with the remodeled signage at the adjacent
42 shopping center.
43 Motion carried unanimously.
• 5
1 Chair Madden advised the petitioner that the Commission's recommendation
•2 would be presented to the City council on June 27, 1989.
3 Nationwide Sewing and Vacuum, 2922 Pentagon Drive - Sign Variance
4 ReWest
5 Chair Madden introduced the request from Nationwide Sewing and Vacuum
6 for a sign variance to re-erect a 45.5 square foot second sign ( "ORECK
7 XL" ) on the south side of the Nationwide Sewing and Vacuum Store located
8 in the St. Anthony Shopping Center, 2922 Pentagon Drive. No one present
9 reported failure to receive the notice or objected to its content.
10 Staff Report
11 Acting City Manager VanderHeyden reported that the original variance
12 granted in June, 1986, allowed the petitioner to replace an existing,
13 non-conforming reader board approximately 160 square feet with a sign
14 measuring 45.5 square feet. The variance was granted in 1986 on the
15 grounds of the corner location of the store and the identification of
16 a second business within the store. Staff feels that the Commission
17 should take into consideration the signage plan passed in January, 1989,
18 by both the Planning Commission and the City Council requiring that all
19 existing shopping center signage be removed and new signage be placed
20 only in accordance with the approved signage plan.
21 Chair Madden asked whether the existing plaque which provides the name
22of the business and its address is a wall sign or a directional sign.
03 Acting Manager City VanderHeyden replied that it is a wall sign.
24 Commissioner Brownell pointed out that the request by the owner is for
25 permission to re-erect a sign reading "Oreck XL Vacuums" while the
26 Notice of Hearing specifies only the words "Oreck XL. " Acting City
27 Manager VanderHeyden said that the word "vacuums" was inadvertently left
28 off the Notice of the Hearing.*
29 Chair Madden opened the public hearing at 8:12 P.M.
30 Thomas Peters, Nationwide Sewing and Vacuum
31 Mr. Peters submitted to the Commission pictures of the reader board and
32 the side of the building before it was repainted. Mr. Peters stated
33 that he assumed that when the shopping center was remodeled that the
34 paneling would be extended around his side of the building similar to
35 the library's side of the building. He stated that he understood the
36 earlier variance to have been granted on the basis that he was offering
37 an additional service to the community. He offered the information that
38 vacuum cleaner business currently constitutes 30 percent of his total
39 business. He commented that since the sign had been taken down, he has
40 received inquires from people as to whether or not the business still
41 deals with vacuum cleaners. He voiced the opinion that the sign is an
42 attractive sign and is only three years old.
6
1 Chair Madden asked the petitioner to describe the proposed signage. Mr.
2 Peters responded that the sign would read "Oreck XL" in the
•3 approximately six inch letters on the top line and "Vacuums" in
4 approximately 24 inch letters on the lower line, and that the sign was
5 yellow with red letters measuring three feet by fourteen feet.
6 Commissioner Hansen asked the petitioner to describe the nature of his
7 vacuum cleaner business. Mr. Peters replied that they service any
8 brand .of vacuum cleaners and actually sell four different brands of
9 vacuum cleaners. Commissioner Hansen indicated that he was not opposed
10 to the petitioner promoting his business through the use of a sign but
11 questioned the reasoning behind naming the Oreck XL brand on the sign
12 itself.
13 -Commissioner Franzese inquired of the owner why he didn't -include the
14 word "vacuums" on the sign on the front of the store. Mr. Peters
15 indicated that the sign was presented to him by Eberhardt, and he was
16 told that that was all he would be allowed, and he did not realize he
17 might have had a choice at that time.
18 Commissioner Wagner pointed out to the petitioner that he could have
19 chosen at that time to purchase a sign from someone other than
20 Eberhardt. Mr. Peters explained that he felt constrained by the fact
21 that Signcrafters was the lowest bidder.
22 No one was present to speak either for or against the variance and the
23 hearing was closed at 8:20 P.M.
04 Planning Commission Reaction
25 -Commissioner Franzese stated that she strongly opposed granting the
26 variance. She observed that since the time when she voted in favor of
27 three other variances for second signs, one for the bookstore, one for
28 a tanning salon, and one for the sewing center, the neighborhood has
29 become more residential in nature. She commented that the City has
30 waited a long time for the remodeling of the shopping center and that
31 since it has been finally accomplished, it should be maintained with a
32 certain degree of integrity. She voiced the opinion that bigger and
33 more signs detract from each other as well as the appearance of the
34 shopping center itself. She expressed puzzlement as to why attention
35 was not given to both portions of the business when the opportunity
36 presented itself at the time the signage on the front of the store was
37 being selected. She voiced the opinion that that corner of the shopping
38 center would be visible to residents in new apartments being built, and
39 that signage in that area should be kept to a minimum in consideration
40 of those apartment residents.
41 Commissioner Wagner voiced opposition to granting the variance on the
42 grounds that the Commission has already established that no more signage
43 would be added to the shopping center once a full sign proposal was
44 submitted and accepted.
0 7
1 Chair Madden asked whether the library was required to obtain a variance
02 for their two signs. Chair Madden expressed the opinion that the
3 petitioner was justified in comparing his store to the library, and
4 that the owners of the shopping center might have made a better decision
5 had they wrapped the fascia around the side of the building. He had no
6 objection to the way the library signage was handled and would have no
7 objection to Mr. Peters' request if he were to handle it in the same
8 manner.
9 Commissioner Brownell asked whether any consideration had originally
10 been given to the fact that the store is a corner location with traffic
11 from two directions. Acting City Manager VanderHeyden responded that
12 the corner location was one of the reasons stated for granting the
13 original variance.
14 Commissioner Hansen expressed the opinion that once the road past the
15 new apartments was completed and re-opened that it would accommodate a
16 substantial amount of traffic. He then questioned the reasoning of the
17 center owners in installing fascia around one corner of the building
18 and not around the other.
19 Commissioner Madden agreed that the owner's request was reasonable
20 because he was in a highly visible location.
21 Commissioner Hansen stated that he would be more in favor of the request
22 if it were actually identifying the business rather than advertising a
23 brand name.
*4 Commissioner London opposed granting a variance on the grounds that he
25 felt no particular hardship existed, and that the petitioner had simply
26 made a poor business decision when selecting the signage for the front
27 of his business.
28 Commissioner Madden expressed the view that a reasonable compromise
29 could be for the petitioner to propose a small sign mentioning the word
30 "vacuums" on the part of the fascia that wraps around the canopy.
31 Commissioner London inquired whether a variance would be required in
32 that case, and Commissioner Hansen replied that the petitioner would
33 have to request a variance for two signs.
34 Commissioner Franzese proposed that the word "vacuums" might be added
35 to the signage on the front of the store rather than on the side.
36 Commissioner Brownell suggested that it might be to the petitioner's
37 advantage for the Commission to table his request in order to allow him
38 time to explore alternatives rather than to recommend denial of the
39 request.
40 Chair Madden asked for reaction to his suggestion, which elicited
41 agreement from Commissioner Brownell. Commissioner London calculated
42 that the petitioner could use approximately 30 square feet on the side
8
1 of the building and still remain within the bounds of the 90 square feet
•2 of signage allowed.
3 Planning Commission Recommendation
4 Motion by Madden, seconded by Wagner to table the variance request for
5 one month.
6 Notion carried unanimously.
7 Chair Madden advised the petitioner to research his alternatives with
8 Acting City Manager VanderHeyden in preparation for the July Planning
9 Commission meeting.
10 St. Anthony National Bank, 2401 Lowry Avenue N.E. - Sign Variance
11 Request
12 Chair Madden introduced the request from St. Anthony National Bank
13 requesting a variance to place a second identification sign (replacing
14 an existing sign) on the southeast wall near the front entrance,
15 measuring 14.25 square feet. No one present reported failure to receive
16 the notice or objected to its content.
17 Staff Report
18 Chair Madden noted that a brand new sign has been placed on the
19 southwest facia of the building, and asked why that had been allowed
0 without a variance request. Acting City Manager VanderHeyden replied
1 that the new sign was within the 150 square feet of signage allowed.
22 She stated that the two existing signs were grandfathered in, and
23 because there was no variance, they were allowed to put the new sign
24 up but would have to get a variance for the second sign.
25 Chair Madden offered his understanding of the bank's actions that they
26 wanted two new signs, one on the southwest and one on the southeast
27 corners, and that one had already been erected.
28 Acting City Manager VanderHeyden informed the Commission that on
29 November 19, 1985 a variance for a nine square foot Cirrus sign near
30 the front entrance had been granted. Chair Madden stated that the
31 Cirrus was not an identification sign and that its erection had required
32 a variance for a third sign.
33 Acting City Manager VanderHeyden stated that two other signs, one at the
34 entrance to the drive-through and one at the exit to the drive-through,
35 are considered to be directional signs and were also grandfathered in.
36 Chair Madden indicated that the bank's "no parking without permit" sign
37 was also a directional sign. He noted the existence of a sign which
38 reads "do not enter" on the side which faces Stinson Boulevard, but
39 which gives information about banking services on the side which faces
40 cars going through the drive-through, and commented that he believed it
41 to be non-conforming.
• 9
I Commissioner Hansen asked for the dimensions of the old and the new.
• 2 signs. Acting City Manager VanderHeyden answered that the first sign
3 went from 43 .8 square feet to 48.5 square feet, and that the second sign
4 goes from 5.25 square feet to 14.25 square feet.
5 Chair Madden opened the public hearing at 8:45 P.M.
6 Donavon Fisher, Firstar St. Anthony Bank, 2401 Lowry Avenue N.E.
7 Mr. Fisher stated that the variance request was prompted by the purchase
8 of the bank by the First Wisconsin Corporation and the name change
9 occasioned by that purchase. He was unable to explain why the first
10 sign was erected.
11 No one else was present to speak either for or against the variance and
12 the hearing was closed at 8:47 P.M.
13 Planning Commission Reaction
14 Commissioner Hansen questioned whether the second sign would be
15 lighted. The Acting City Manager answered that the first, larger sign
16 is to be lighted, but not the second, smaller sign.
17 Commissioner Brownell commented that he was in favor of the new signage
18 because it was an attractive sign, although it was a large increase in
19 size. Commissioner Wagner commented that it was well below the total
*20 allowable limit for signage, and that it was a small sign in comparison
21 to the size of the building.
22 Commissioner Hansen voiced no opposition to granting the variance. He
23 did, however, voice the opinion that this was an example of a situation
24 in which the Commission has been involved in the past wherein signs are
25 either already ordered, constructed, or even installed before a variance
26 is requested, which results in undue pressure on the Commission to
27 recommend granting of a variance. He recommended that City staff
28 consider notifying business owners in the community of the details of
29 the sign ordinance.
30 The Commission then discussed the measurements of all- the signs
31 displayed by the bank and concluded that the building was well within
32 its allowable signage limits.
33 Planning Commission Recommendation
34 Motion by Franzese, seconded by Wagner to recommend granting of a
35 variance to Firstar St. Anthony Bank, located at 2401 Lowry Avenue N.E. ,
36 to place a second identification sign measuring 14.25 square feet on the
37 southeast wall near the front entrance which is a replacement for an
38 existing sign due to a name change as a consequence of acquisition of
39 the bank by Firstar corporation; further, that there have been no calls
40 opposing the variance and no one spoke against the request during the
0 10
1 hearing; further, that it satisfies the three conditions for granting
•2 of a variance.
3 Commissioner Hansen disagreed that the request meets all three
4 conditions for the granting of a variance.
5 Commissioner London proposed that the Commission discuss the status of
6 the non-conforming sign which Chair Madden had brought to their
7 attention.
8 Chair Madden offered an amendment to the motion, seconded by London,
9 that all the letters be removed from the reader board which is located
10 on Stinson Boulevard.
11 Aye: London, Franzese, Hansen, Madden, Brownell.
12 Nay:- Wagner.
13 Motion to amend carried.
14 Motion as amended carried.
15 Chair Madden advised the Petitioner that the Commission's recommendation
16 would be presented to the City Council on June 27, 1989.
17 Coldwell Banker CommercialL, 2900 Pentagon Drive - Sign Variance Re est
18 Chair Madden introduced the request from Coldwell Banker Commercial to
020
9 place a 16 square foot "for lease" sign on the rear fascia of the St.
Anthony Shopping Center, 2900 Pentagon Drive N.E. No one present
21 reported failure to receive the notice or objected to its content.
22 Staff Report
23 Acting City Manager VanderHeyden reported that real estate signs are
24 allowed under the Sign Ordinance for a six month period on a temporary
25 basis, and that a variance is necessary due to previous Commission and
26 Council action (January, 1989) requiring that all existing shopping
27 center signage be removed and any new signage placed only in accordance
28 with the approved signage plan.
29 Chair Madden noted that the proposed location of the sign was next to
30 the reader board on the shopping center wall, and that there was no room
31 for a 16 square foot sign at that location. Acting City Manager
32 VanderHeyden stated that to the best of her understanding the sign was
33 to be placed on the rear fascia of the St. Anthony Shopping Center.
34 Chair Madden suggested that the Commission obtain the exact location
35 of the proposed sign from the Coldwell Banker representative.
36 Commissioner Wagner asked whether the Sign Ordinance limited the number
37 of real estate signs. Acting City Manager VanderHeyden answered that
38 the language in the ordinance refers to "such sign" but does not
39 specifically address the number of signs.
• it
61 Commissioner Wagner noted that a sign has been erected on the grounds
2 next to the Mobil station, and Acting City Manager VanderHeyden
3 indicated that that was a temporary sign and would be allowed for six
4 months if no permanent sign was allowed. Commissioner Wagner concluded
5 that the request under consideration was for a permanent sign.
6 Chair Madden opened the public hearing at 9:05 P.M.
7 Peter Bloch, Coldwell Banker Commercial
8 Mr. Bloch stated that he had been retained by the shopping center
9 ownership to lease space in the shopping center. He explained that the
10 sign is permanent in the sense that it is to be affixed to the building
11 itself, but that it will be on display temporarily. He noted that the
12 reason for the request was to create greater visibility for Coldwell
13 Banker's leasing and marketing efforts, and that the sign would be
14 visible from Kenzie Terrace.
15 Commissioner Wagner asked Mr. Bloch to describe the exact location of
16 the proposed sign and to describe the sign itself. Mr. Bloch explained
17 that the sign would be approximately 16 square feet to be affixed to the
18 rear of what is referred to as Building 2 facing Kenzie Terrace. He
19 further stated that the sign will read, "For Lease, Coldwell Banker
20 Commercial Real Estate, Call Bonnie Franta or Peter Bloch, 338-4700. "
21 He stated the sign would be wood, and that the words "for lease" would
22be in red and that the remainder of the lettering would be in blue or
X2 3 black letters on a white background.
24 Commissioner Wagner asked how long the sign would remain. Mr. Bloch
25 replied that it is their practice to remove all signs once leasing
26 efforts are completed. He stated that although they have a twelve month
27 contract, they hope to be able to remove the sign in six months;
28 otherwise, they would return to the Planning Commission with a request
29 for a six month extension. He further stated that they had decided
30 that affixing a sign to the building would impede traffic less than a
31 post-mounted sign in the pavement.
32 Commissioner Hansen asked whether the Sign Ordinance prohibited a
33 temporary sign from being affixed to a building, but Acting City Manager
34 VanderHeyden replied that that is not the case.
35 Mr. Bloch assured the Commission that Coldwell Banker would not return
36 to ask for additional signs.
37 No one else was present to speak either for or against the variance,
38 and the hearing was closed at 9:10 P.M.
39 Planning Commission Recommendation
40 Motion by Franzese, seconded by- Brownell, to recommend granting a
41 variance to Coldwell Banker for the purposes of erecting a sign reading
0 12
1 "For Lease" and the name and number to contact for leasing of the St.
2 Anthony Shopping Center; based upon the fact that no calls opposing the
• 3 variance were received and no one spoke against the request during the
4 hearing; that the request satisfies the conditions for granting of the
5 variance; that the request is understood to be a temporary request for
6 a six month period; that it is in the interests of the City as well as
7 the St. Anthony Shopping Center to lease its space; and that the City
8 wishes to lend its assistance to that effort.
9 Motion carried unanimously.
10 Chair Madden advised the petitioner that the Commission's recommendation
11 would be presented to the City Council on June 27, 1989.
12 Salvation Army, 2950 W County Road E - Sign Variance Request
13 Chair Madden introduced the request from the Salvation Army to place
14 a 64 square foot ground surface sign identifying the entrance to Silver
15 Lake Camp. The proposed sign would replace the existing sign (the sign
16 surface area being 64 square feet with an actual overall sign height of
17 16 feet) located at the southwest corner of Silver Lake Road and County
18 Road E. No one present reported failure to receive the notice or
19 objected to its content.
20 Staff Report
21 Acting City Manager VanderHeyden indicated that she had received some
023
2 tentative plans from Director of Public Works, Larry Hamer, concerning
the possibility that Ramsey County might widen County Road E and acquire
24 several feet of land for the roadway in the process. However, it was
25 found that this will not affect the Salvation Army sign.
26 Commissioner Hansen asked whether the sign was to be lighted. Chair
27 Madden concluded from the materials presented in the Commission package
28 that the sign would not be lighted, and Acting City Manager VanderHeyden
29 concurred.
30 Dale Westberg, Salvation Army
31 Mr. Westberg stated that the proposed sign will improve the appearance
32 of the intersection and is planned' to match a sign for an entrance to
33 the camp to be developed further west on County Road E. He described
34 the sign as being an unlighted, landscaped sign, with white letters
35 etched into cedar siding..
36 Commissioner Wagner asked whether any trees would have to be removed
37 to make room for the sign, and Mr. Westberg replied that it is his
38 understanding two or three trees would need to be removed, but that the
39 landscaping around the sign would compensate for the tree removal.
40 Commissioner Brownell commented that the existing sign is difficult to
41 see when driving north on Silver Lake Road. He noted that whereas the
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1 old sign was at a 90 degree angle, or perpendicular to Silver Lake Road,
02 the new sign will be at a 45 degree angle to the road, making it even
3 more difficult to see.
4 Mr. Westberg noted that a sign for the United Methodist Church was on
5 the southwest corner of Silver Lake Road and County Road E, which he
6 assumed did not belong there. Acting City Manager VanderHeyden replied
7 that they had been sent a letter about the sign the week previous to
8 this meeting.
9 Chair Madden asked whether the Salvation Army intended. to extend the
10 chain link fence behind the sign, and Mr. Westberg replied
11 affirmatively.
12 Commissioner Franzese asked whether the Salvation Army would like to
13 reconsider the positioning of the sign, considering its poor visibility
14 when driving north on Silver Lake Road, before the Commission made its
15 recommendation. Mr. Westberg replied that he felt comfortable with the
16 Salvation Army's position because they were more concerned with
17 visibility to traffic heading south on Silver Lake Road.
18 Donovan Wagner, Hills Gilbertson Architects
19 Mr. Wagner indicated that Hills Gilbertson Architects had designed the
20 sign for the Salvation Army. He described the sign as white letters
21 on a natural cedar background to reflect the surrounding natural
22 environment. He indicated that the landscaping would consist of treated
2V3 lumber edging, woodchips or shredded bark ground cover, and ground-
4 hugging junipers which will eventually spread, taking over the area
25 covered by wood chips.
26 No one else was present to speak either for or against the variance and
27 the hearing was closed at 9: 23 P.M.
28 Planning Commission Recommendation
29 Motion by Wagner, seconded by Brownell to recommend to the City Council
30 the granting of the variance to place the 64 square foot ground surface
31 sign identifying the entrance to the Salvation Army Silver Lake Camp on
32 the southwest corner of County Road E and Silver Lake Road, finding
33 first that it would be an improvement over the existing sign in both
34 appearance and readability; that there were no objections to the
35 request; and that it meets the requirements for a sign variance.
36 Commissioner Franzese offered an addition to the first finding, accepted
37 by the maker, that the proposed sign is aesthetically pleasing; and that
38 the ' sign serves to mark the gateway to St. Anthony.
39 Motion carried unanimously.
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1 MISCELLANEOUS
2 Chair Madden noted that St. Anthony Self-Storage has a wall sign on the
3 upper part of their building facing west, as well as a very large lawn
4 sign.
5 He also noted that although Hardee's originally agreed to erect a
6 masonry base around their sign, the base as constructed is stucco.
7 Commissioner Hansen expressed the opinion that the "Vargas" sign across
8 the street from Hardee's did not meet the definition of substantial
9 construction, and suggested that the Commission recommended either its
10 removal or that it be brought up to City code. Chair Madden agreed,
it and pointed out that it appeared as though dirt had been piled near the
12 bottom of the sign to create the impression that it is a ground-hugging
13 sign when in fact it is not.
14 Commissioner Franzese noted that the new owners of the Medtronics
15 building were permitted to erect a ground-hugging sign but that no
16 landscaping has been done around the base of the sign and it appears to
17 be crooked.
18 Commissioner Wagner indicated that he received a communication from
19 Dave Childs to the Planning Commission thanking the Commission for the
20 many enjoyable times he had had working with the Commission.
21 ADJOURNMENT
•22 ' Motion by Hansen, seconded by Wagner to adjourn the meeting at 9:32
.23 P.M.
24 Motion carried unanimously.
25 Respectfully submitted,
26 Doris Hoskin, Secretary
27
28 Mayor
29 ATTEST:
30 City Clerk
31 :cjk
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