HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL MINUTES 12191989 Meeting Sheet
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Folder: PL MINUTES AND AGENDAS 1989
Document: PL MINUTES 12191989
1
1 CITY OF ST. ANTH014Y
2
3 PLANNING C014MISSIO14 MEETING MINUTES
4 DECEMBER 19 , 1989
5
6
7 CALL TO ORDER
8
9 The meeting was called to order by Chairperson Madden at
10 7 : 31 p.m. with the Pledge of Allegiance led by the
11 Commission Chair .
12
1�
1
1. I
16 Present : Brownell , Hansen, Madden, Wagner , Werenicz
17 Absent : Franzese
1 _ 1h-C-m .s 2t]r` , City
19 Susan VanderHeyden , Assistance to the
2C City 14anaaer
2,
2L
23 APPROVAL OF MINUTES
24
25 Motion by Brownell , seconded by Madden, to approve the
26 November 21, 1989 Planning Commission meeting minutes as
27 presented and with the following changes/corrections :
28
29 Page 1 , Line 49 -- Add: "Commissioner Wagner pointed out
30 that the public notices incorrectly stated that the public
31 hearings were to be held before the City Council , rather
32 than the Planning Commission'. "
33
34 Page 2 , line 15 -- Add: "to the . City Manager" between
35 "Assistant" and "VanderHeyden. "
36
37 Page 3 , Line 21 -- Change: " (two storefronts) " to " (two
38 streets) . "
39
40 Page 3 , Line 33 -- Add: "if not exercised" after "expire . "
41
42 Page 3 , Line 35 -- Add: "or. new renters" between "owners"
43 and "of . "
44
45 Page 4 , Line 6 -- Add: "to the City Manager" between
46 "Assistant" and "VanderHeyden. "
47
40 Page 5 , Line 4 -- Change : "Workss" to "Works . "
•
50
50 Page 5 , Line 14 -- Change : "response originates" to
2
1 "responses originate . "
2
3 Page 5, Line 18 -- Change : "granting a certificate of
4 occupancy" to "recommending final plat approval . "
5
6 Page 6 , Line 5 -- Add : "Chair Madden expressed his
7 opposition to the variance re-quest as presented. "
8
9 Page 7 , Line 21 -- Change : "position" to "positions . "
10
11 Idc_ion carried unanimously.
12
13
1.-1 _ �...i?:=S�=C".c'_' + cl r:Gtc1 tt.c =_ �..nn.g Cc:T::(:-==- �1i
15 not have t:_ :itinutes of ttiic "Last C- _y Council aiid
16 requested a report on the C_uncil ' s action on the Planning
1.7 Commission' s recommendations of November 21 , 1989 .
10 Coy-,:misslo:ier own--7-11 re p1-=a that `r:e City Counci_ had
19 unanimously approved, all the reco-airnendat ions of the Planning
20 Commission , with the same t__ms , conditions , and findings as
21 the Planning Commission . C_::::nissioner Brownell thyn raised
22 the issue of whether the City Council would be required to
23 amend their minutes based or: the amendments to the minutes
24 of the Planning Commission. No answer was forthcoming.
25 City Manager Burt asked the Commission whether they would
26 find it helpful to receive s copy of the previous City
27 Council meeting minutes in -heir meeting information
28 packets . Commissioners Brownell and Wagner replied that
29 those minutes were usually included in their packets .
30
31
32 DESIGNATE C014MISSIO14 REPRESENTATIVE TO JANUARY 9 , 1990
33 COUNCIL IIEETI14G
34
35 Commissioner Wagner was selected and agreed to represent the
36 Planning Commission. at the next scheduled City Council
37 meeting.
38
39
40 STAFF REPORT RE: SIGN VARIrNCE REQUEST FROM LaNEL FINANCIAL
41 FOR THE AUTUMN WOOD'S APARTME14TS LOCATED AT APPROXIMATELY
42 2600 KENZIE TERRACE
43
44 Assistant to the City Manager VanderHeyden ( "Assistant
45 VanderHeyden" ) noted that the public hearing scheduled for
46 7 : 35 p.m. regarding Video Update would be tabled due to an
47 unforseen delay, and City Manager Burt suggested that staff
48 :Hake its report in the intervening time before the next
49 scheduled public hearing .
50
3
1 Assistant VanderHeyden noted that a new packet of
2 information had been supplied by Autumn Woods , and
3 distributed to the Commission a new table of contents for
4 the pack=t.
5
6
7 Assistant VanderHeyden explained that the tab numbers do nct
8 correspond to the sign numbers . She stated that the
9 location of the signs is marked in red pen after the first
10 tab; that Autumn Woods had added Sign Number 3 , which is a
11 sign designating only the rental- center ;, and ,that Sign
12 Number 4 had been inadvertently omitted because there are
13 two possible entrance locations for that sign .
i4
15 Assist=.-.-_ e Plaine-6 thi it aft&r cz-cl, tab is -a
16 specific sign to be placed at a specific location. For
17 example , after tab two is .the sign to be located off of
1^0 =IiZ1- 3%- th=- ..._ l ocatic_7
19 Sign IJu-.bar 2`is also in the same location previously
20 designa==d; and that Signs 3 and 4 are additions . She not_3
21 that the size of the signs had be_n :ecreas_d . Hoc,ever , _.._
22 number cf signs has been increased even though the total
23 square footage is less than what it would have been with
24 only two signs .
25
26 Assistant VanderHeyden stated that staff , after having
27 reviewed LaNel Financial ' s proposal , was of the opinion that
28 Signs 2 and 3 could be combined as they were in the initia
29 proposal . She noted that a deadline must be considered for
30 all the Autumn Woods temporary signage,' and that a
31 recommendation is required for the "now renting" banners
32 which LaNel would like to fly for one year.
33
34 City Manager Burt clarified , in response to a question by
35 Chairperson Madden, that the initial request by LaNel was
36 for three signs at 68 . 25 square feet , but that the amended
37 request is for four signs at 50 . 19 square feet . City
38 Manager Burt recapped his discussion with Paul Brewer of
39 LaNel Financial in which Mr. Brewer agreed that Sign Number
40 1 would be reduced in size, angled on the lot , and set in 20
41 feet so that a motorist must be in the Autumn Woods driveway
42 before being able to see the sign . Additionally, City
43 Manager Burt requested that Mr. Brewer supply a drawing of
44 the main Autumn Woods sign, which Mr . Brewer agreed to do.
45 City Manager Burt noted that the rental shop sign is new,
46 and that he had asked Mr. Brewer to combine that sign with
47 another . City Manager Burt stated that Sign Number 4 is
48 apparently new in the proposal , although he believed that :t
• 49 had been discussed with staff at some point in time . He
50 stated _hat the request for Sign Number 4 is logical because
4
•
1 there are two separate entrances off the small parking area.
2
3 Commissioner Wagner asked what would be written on the
4 signs . City Manager Burt replied that while each apartment
5 has its own number , each complex within Autumn Woods, has its
6 own address , and that only the complex: numbers would be
7 written on each sign.
8
9 Commissioner Hansen stated that he felt it was unnecessary
10 for each sign to carry the Autumn Woods wording, because
11 once a person _was in the Autumn Woods complex he/she .would
12 no longer need that wording to help him/her find an
13 apartment . City Manager Burt replied that Autumn Woods ' s
-
14 ,-� _-crs�l= _ ,ariting the __"...�_ 1 c�C.i _i •Jn -
1 ._ - 1 -
15 thee_ r 1•-go trirOUohout th co :p= _.. . 1;i Ss ._..cl" Warn 1
16 stated that the wording makes them advertising signs more so
17 than directional signs . Chairperson Madden noted that the
18 14indsor Green directional signs- do not carry the name of the
19 complex. Commissioner Wagner stated that he would approve
20 the wording on Sign I-lumber 3 , the rental center sign,
21 because it would be logical to describe the rental center .
22
® 23 Chairperson Madden brought up the issues of the emergency
24 vehicle access and the pedestrian walkway. He stated that
25 he was unable to find in the packet supplied by Autumn Woods
26 the location of the pedestrian walkway from Autumn Woods to
27 the shopping center . He noted that the provision of a
28 pedestrian walkway was a condition of the City' s approval of
29 the Autumn Woods complex. City Manager Burt agreed to
30 investigate the matter.
31
32 A brief recess was had, and it was agreed to continue the
33 Autumn Woods discussion after completion of the 8 : 00 public
34 hearing.
35
36
37 PUBLIC HEARINGS
38
39 NEDEGAARD CONSTRUCTION COMPANY FOR EVERGREEN TOWNHOMES , 3414
4.0 AND - 3416 SILVER LANE; SETBACK VARIANCE REQUEST
41
42 The Chair read the official notice of the public hearing,
43 which had been duly published in the December 6, 1989 issue
44 of the St. Anthony bulletin. No one failed to receive or
45 stated an objection to the contents of the notice. The
46 public hearing was set to consider a request from Nedegaard
47 Construction, Inc. for an eight-foot front yard setback
48 variance from 30 feet to 22 feet on Lots 2 and 3 , Bloc'r. 1 of
• 49 the Evergreen Townhomes project located a 3414 and 3416
50 Silver Lane .
• 5
1
2 Staff Report
3
4 Assistant Van:!erHeyden stated that when Nedegaard
5 Construction c=ompany took over the project they were under
6 the impression that the previous construction company had
7 designated the lot lines in accordance .with the setback
8 requirements . However, after the footings were installed,
9 the architect .reviewed the work and discovered the
10 eight-foot error . Nedegaard immediately notified Public
11 Works Director , Larry Hame-r. The two -units affected are
12 one-story units . Assistant VanderHeyden stated that city
13 staff is of the opinion that the units being eight feet
15 rea , par tlr`__arly ti'_ =,se the th=y a _,r:_-st•.._� _snits
16 rather than two-story .nits .
17
IS hai rL.erson moi '_... 1, tl r_ -.`i_ truCtn c,:ntiuc ?
19 after the discovery of the error . He also stated that the
20 drawing suppl -d was very difficult to interpret , because
21 the street , right Cr .J line , and retaining wall- ire not.
22 shown. He as=.ed what the relationship is between the
23 retaining wall and the right of way line , stating that , if
24 the distance is less than a certain number of feet , a
25 guardrail might be required by County-State Aid Highway
26 rules . Assistant VanderHeyden deferred to Bruce Nedegaard
27 of Nedegaard Construction Company, who stated that the
28distance is a-proximately five -feet . Chairperson Madden
29 stated that he would need. more information regarding the
30 retaining wall to make a decision.
31
32 Commissioner Wagner pointed out that , according to the
33 drawing, the variance request should actually ask for a
34 four-foot setback variance on Lot 2 and an eight-foot
35 setback variance on Lot 3 .
36
37 The public hearing was opened at 8 : 05 p.m. by Chair Madden ,
38 who invited Bruce Nedegaard to present his case to the
39 Commission.
40
41 Mr. Nedegaard stated that construction on the affected units
42 did not continue after the setback error was discovered .
43 The problem was not noticed until after the blocks were in,
44 .the backfilling was completed, and the crew had moved on to
45 the next unit . - The only work which was done on the affected
46 units after the error was discovered was to run water and
47 sewer into the units , which would neither affect nor be
48 affected by the- problem or the variance request . He
49 concurred that the variance request f(-r .lot Number 2 should
50 be four feet. while the request for Lot Number 3 should be
• 6
1 for eight feet .
2
3 Mr. Nedegaard stated that the distance to the retaining wall
4 will be approximately 18 feet on Lot Number 3 after the
5 variance request is granted , or four feet from the right. of
6 way . Chairperson Madden asked whether Mr . Nedegaard
7 intended to install guardrail on top of the retaining wall ,
8 and Mr. Nedegaard replied that he would be willing to look
9 at that option or to do additional landscaping on the
1.0 boulevard, if that is required. Mr. Nedegaard told the
11 Commission that he did not intentionally create the problem
12 and that he would be willing to construct the unit properly
13 _^.less some accomn.-!_., 3 ti-= r-r uld he out .
lz
15 Cor.missioner Brownell asked whether the building was
16 designed in accordance with the final plat as approved by
17 City Council - Mr . 3dedegaard replied that it was .
.10 Commissioner Brownell stated that the hullding design (foes
19 not appear to be in accordance with the plan initially
20 submitted . Assistant Jandarrieyden noted that the initial
21 plan had been changed. Commissioner Brownell stated that
• 22 the preliminary plat showed a 30-foot setback to the
23 buildings .
24
25 Chairperson Madden asked Mr. Nedegaard for the measurement
26 of the Lot 1 side yard setback, and Mr. Nedegaard stated
27 that it is 15 feet . The Commission compared the preliminary
28 plat with the map of the property as it now exists , and
29 found a number of adjustments that had been made.
30
31 Commissioner Wagner asked Mr . Nedegaard why he replied
32 affirmatively in his petition for variance that the
33 difficulty or hardship is caused by city ordinance. Mr .
34 -Nedegaard replied that he didn' t think the situation would'
35 infringe on any of the neighbors . Commissioner Wagner
36 stated that he found it difficult to see how the hardship
37 was created by city ordinance since the city ordinance was
38 in place before the project was planned or built. Mr.
39 Nedegaard replied that the biggest hardship from his point
40 of view was that he entered the situation after the problem
41 had been created.
42
43 Commissioner Hansen asked Mr . Nedegaard what he would do if
44 the variance request were denied. Mr . Nedegaard replied
45 that he . woul*d have to go back and rip the basement out and
46 conform exactly to the ordinance .
47
48 The public hearing was closed at 8 : 13 p. ;n.
49
50 Commissioner Wagner stated that he had no objection to
• 7
1 recommending that the variance be granted because it would
2 have no effect on other persons , their. property, or the
3 appearance of the area, but that he had some concern as to
4 whether or not the Commission could consider an affirmative
5 answer to Question Number 3 proper .
6
7 Commissioner Brownell stated that Question Number 3 asks
8 whether the hardship is "created" by the person having an
9 interest in the land , and that I•fr . Nedegaard did not create
10 the pr:.blem but assumed the situation as it existed, which
11 was crated by the ordinance , because the ordinance .
12 evidently approved the plat in its current configuration .
13 He cor-:ented that it was unfortunate that the Commission did
L ? r:1 C.;
15 _i:<<e : __ t.h it r p=rusa1 .
16
17 Commissioner Hansen stated that he agreed with Commissioner
18 1'Y aane . r:- &. cla ne-d ;.hat the prcNhieri w=_ be-cause
19 the fc=-tings were poured and the blocks were laid in the
20 wrong :lace , not because of the ordinance . He commented
21 that _e interpretation of th= great 'c:n of the situation
22 might 'e best left to the City Attorney ' s determination .
• 23 Commissioner Hansen . commented that his view of the situation
24 was that an honest, legitimate mistake had been made which
25 would cost a lot of money to correct , and that the city
26 ordinance did not restrict the individual at all in the
27 situation . Fe recalled a similar situation in the recent
28 past on Silver Lake Road, and commented that people should
29 not assume that the city will make allowances for expensive
30 mistakes . Commissioner Werenicz confirmed Commissioner
31 Hansen ' s recollection . of the Silver Lake Road situation .
32
33 Commissioner Hansen stated that he would, however, be in
34 favor of recommending the variance since there was no
35 opposition to it. He acknowledge that it would be very
36 expensive to correct the mistake, and that no harm would be
37 done by allowing the project to continue as begun.
38
39 Chairperson Madden stated that he agreed with Commissioner
40 Hansen and had no objection to continuing the project as
41 begun . He commented that he felt the four-foot distance
42 between the retaining wall and the right of way is a
43 dangerously short distance , and felt that a guardrail should
44 be installed to protect pedestrians and bicyclists .
45 Commissioner Wagner agreed with the guardrail
46 recommendation.
47
48 Commissioner c+erenicz stated that he was not opposed to the
49 varianc;_a request . He commented that Mr . I3edegaard had built
50 his hc-_se and that , in the interest of fairness he would
. _ 8
1 abstain from further comment and from the vote .
2
3 Commissioner Brownell indicated that he was in favor of
4 recommending that the variance be granted, and that he was
5 satisfied with the affirmative answer to Question Number 3 .
6
7 Chairperson Madden asked City Manager Burt whether it would
8 be proper to include in the motion a requirement to install
9 a guardrail to protect passersby. City Manager Burt replied
10 that it would not , but that Chairperson Hadden might simply
11 ask Mr . Nedegaard for his ccoperaticn on that issue .
12 Chairperson Madden inquired of Mr . Nedegaard, who stated
13 that he agreed wholeheartedly wit:
9
1 development , and would like to carry its logo through all
2 the signs at Autumn Woods in similar fashion .
3
4 Mr. Brewer described the signage as being all-weather
5 redwood two-by-fours , stacked and bolted together , and
6 routed . In the case o-f the Autumn Woods signage , the
7 surface will be painted with dark paint to match the
8 buildings , and the routed lettering will be filled in with
9 an almond-colored paint to match the buildings .
10
-11 Mr . Brewer referred to Sign Number 2 ; and stated that it
12 will be the same size as Sign Number 1 . It will direct
13 people to Building A , the rental office , and the unit
14 _.-.rer= cn r
15
16 Mr . Brewer next referred to the sign which will be in front
17 of the rental office , which will denote the rental center
13 =.:d -he Main acdr_ss or =}he _'ro]-ct . -2 stat-_ 3 teat tt'scre
19 is an island in front ct that area which will be
20 attractively landscape.
21
22 Mr. Brewer stated that there are two entrances to Building C
. 23 which are accessed off of the parking lot at the end of
2.4 Building B, and that Laurel plans to install a small sign
25 there which would denote those two addresses . He noted that
26 the drawing provided to the Commission shows a sign 36
27 inches by 20-3/4 inches , but that the sign would be
28 downsized to less than five square feet.
29
30 Mr. Brewer then indicated to the Commission that a drawing
31 of the proposed monument sign was included in the
32 information packet . He stated that the total square footage
33 of the monument sign would be approximately a maximum of 104
34 square feet . Commissioner Wagner asked whether the
35 monument sign would be two-sided, and Mr . Brewer replied
36 affirmatively .
37
38 Commissioner Brownell asked whether the Commission was now
3.9 actually being asked to consider a variance request for
40 three identical , one-sided directional signs for a total of
41 45 square feet . Mr . Brewer responded that that was true
42 since Sign Number 4 would be downscaled. Commissioner
43 Hansen commented that the determination of whether the signs
44 are directional or advertising in nature still remained to
45 be made .
46
47 Commissioner Wagner asked Mr . Brewer what progress had been
48 made regarding the emergency vehicle access to the complex.
49 Mr . Brewer responded that provision has been made fcr that
50 access , and stated that the mat has been laid, but a
• 10
1 driveable surface still needs to be applied. Commenting on
2 the steepness of the access , Chairperson Madden asked
3 whether a long emergency vehicle would be able to drive up
4 that driveway without hitting its undercarriage . Mr .
5 Brewer replied that the contractor, after consulting with
6 rl:blic Works Director Larry Hamer , had indicated that a long
7 e.;:ergency vehicle would be able to negotiate the driveway.
8 Mr. Brewer agreed that the driveway is steep, but cited the
9 limitations of the site itself as well as the difficulties
10 of dealing with .the uncooperative owner of the parking lot .
11 He stated that the initially proposed driveway would have
12 been a less steep grade, but that that was unacceptable to
13 the parking lot owner and Laurel ended up having to install
15
16 Chairperson Madden commented that , when the development was
17 first being discussed, one of the reasons for seeking to
1.8 _evei.c.p a high-density residenc= in that -=.rea 3$ tc,
19 increase the attractiveness and viability of the shopping
20 center . However , no walkway exists which connects the
21 c--.-:plea to the shopping center . Mr . Brewer replied that the
22 walkway is another issue which needs to be worked out with
• 23 the parking lot owner. He stated that LaNel had proposed a
24 walkway towards the Walker building on the Autumn Woods
25 property, which was unacceptable to the lot owner. He
26 indicated that Laurel is not adverse to developing a
27 pedestrian walkway but has experienced difficulties dealing
28 with the parking lot owner regarding that issue.
29
30 Chairperson Madden proposed that the retaining wall need
31 only be brought in three feet eight inches to allow room for
32 a ramp and steps . Mr . Brewer replied that bringing the
33 retaining wall in that distance would leave no green space,
34 which is important to the appearance of the complex.
35 Additionally, Mr . Brewer stated that the contractor had
36 expressed some concerns regarding holding the .bank if steps
37 were installed in that area .
38
39 Commissioner Hansen recalled that the emergency vehicle
40 access was a condition of approval of the project
41 construction, and asked for verification that an emergency
42 vehicle will be able to negotiate the steep .grade . City
43 Manager Burt replied that in his discussions with the
44 firefighters, he had been told that if the building was on
45 fire they would be fighting the fire from the parking lot of
46 the shopping center . He stated that if it was a small fire
47 in one of the units they would just drive in the main
48 driveway, and he speculated that they might even use a
49 smaller truck in that case . He stated that if the grade
50 were flattened out , i-t would begin in the parking lot , which
• 11
I would be very unsafe .
2
3 Commissioner Hansen acknowledged this information, but
4 stated his dissatisfaction with the fact that the
5 requirements were known before construction began, yet the
5 construction ^f the driveway was completed unsatisfactorily
7 and the Commission was being asked to make allowances after
8 the fact . He expressed the opinion that the Commission
9 should have been approached as soon as a problem with the
10 grade was discovered. City Manager Burt said that he
11 believed Laldel had made a good faith atter-pt to obtain the
12 emergency vehicle access .
13
City T"anace_ ,irt then sated that the City is presently
i5 negotiating :..*-"h Kraus ".nderson on a major existing sewer
16 line which runs through the property. He indicated that a
17 walkway and the emergency vehicle access change could be
18 suggested as part of those negotiations . If negotiations
19 fail, the City might attempt to condemn that piece of land as
20 a last resort. He speculated that the emergency vehicle
21 access might be changed but not drastically. Mr. Brewer com-
22 mented that the owner of the Town and Country was not very
• 23 cooperative. Commissioner Hansen made another appeal that
24 the City be notified of- problems before they become physically
25 impossible to correct.
26
27
28 Commissioner Wagner asked whether a large medical response
29 unit would be able to negotiate the emergency vehicle
30 access . City Manager Burt said that he would investigate .
31 the matter . He stated that construction vehicles were
32 currently using the driveway without difficulty and that he
33 knew an ambulance would be able to use the driveway. City
34 Manager Burt commented that emergency vehicles would use the
35 main entrance in all cases unless it was blocked or
36 inaccessible for some unforseen reason.
37
38 Chairperson Madden asked. Mr . Brewer whether he was referring
39 to the owners. of the shopping center or to the owners of the
40 . Country Store property when he referred to the owners as
41 uncooperative. Mr. Brewer stated that he meant the Country
42 Store near the end of the property, and that Laurel had been
43 advised by them that their parking lot is not for through
44 traffic .
45
46 Commissioner. Wagner asked Mr. Brewer to comment on the
47 possibility that the Autumn Woods of St . Anthony wording and
48 logo be removed from the directional signage , and that the
49 signage be made vertical with larger numbers so that they
50 would be highly visible even above snowdrift.s . Cor;;riissioner
• 12
1 Wagner added that he thought the Sign Number 1 with the
2 advertising might be misleading and cause motorists on
3 Kenzie Terrace to turn in the wrong driveway before they see
4 the monument sign . He stated that he saw no need for
5 advertising on Sign Number 4 , which is in the back, and that
6 he saw no need for advertising on Sign Number 2 , which is
7 only about 50 feet from the monument sign.
8
9 Mr. Brewer replied that LaNel felt very strongly about
10 repeating the wording and logo on all their signs similar to
11 the Twin Lake North development . He stated that consistent
12 signs with the wording and logo give a more professional
13 appearance to the project , and that signage is extre-.ely
ro� tant _n cr -i.'i ,
15 1ntE2' lcCtc(j that the �GT..Assi.Dn -with the ;icy . :;-.r
16 directional signage . I•Ir . Brewer stated , for an exar:ple,
17 that Sign Number 1 would be raised and landscaped so that it
18 . culd be abo-.-e the snow line .
19
20 Commissioner Wagner indicated to Mr . Brewer that he
21 considered the signs attractive and professionally
22 but that he still objected to the advertising nature of
• 23 them, and felt that they were not strictly directional
24 signs . Commissioner Hansen expressed his agreement with
25 Commissioner Wagner ' s comments . He added that he felt the
26 wording was an unnecessary distraction to one who is looking
27 for an apartment number . He stated that he would rather
28 have the numbers even larger to assure that people would be
29 able to read them.
30
31 , Commissioner Brownell described a hypothetical scenario in
32 which a motorist drives through the complex and has
33 difficulty understanding the directional signs because the
34 numbers are not in logical sequence. He asked Mr. Brewer to
35 comment on that scenario. Mr . Brewer reminded Mr. Brownell
36 that each apartment has its number above its own door, and
37 those that face the parking lot would be visible from the
38 parking lot. He described which units have numbers visible
39 from the parking lot and driveway and which ones do not .
40 Commissioner Brownell pointed out that Sign Number 3 is
41 strictly an advertising sign marking the location of the
4.2 rental center, and serves no other purpose such as directing
43 a motorist to another area of the complex.
44
45 City Manager Burt commented that, from his personal
46 experience, the only necessary directional sign is Sign
47 Number 4 because those units face the internal courtyard.
48 Commissioner Wagner pointed out that in his. view Sign Idumber
49 1 and Sign Number 2 did serve a purpose in directir.
50 motorists . Commissioner Hansen agreed, but stated that Sign
• 13
1 Number l might confuse a stranger who was approaching Autumn
2 Woods and cause one to turn into the wrong driveway before
3 they were able to see the monument sign. He expressed the
4 view that the monument sign was sufficient advertising
5 signage for the site . Mr . Brewer disagreed , stating that a
6 motorist approaching Autumn Woods from the southwest on
7 Kenzie might miss the main driveway beside the monument sign
8 if they weren ' t forewarned by Sign Number 1 that they were
9 approaching the Autumn Woods entrance . He suggested that
10 two monument signs_ were actually needed since the complex
11 has two main entrances .
12
13 that.
11 iii 1 t� a:l_ _ , v:h=rc the �n is
15 the other entrance is there more to control traffic . iJr .
16 Brewer replied that there would be less of a problem if
17 Building C could be accessed from the main entrance .
13 Commissioner Hansen stated that certainly people living in
19 Building C would be familiar with the access to their
20 building , but Mr . Brewer stated that people visiting the
21 complex ,night need .the additional .directional assistance .
22
23 Commissioner Werenicz complimented Iir. Brewer and LaNel on
24 the package they had put together for this meeting, and
25 thanked them for the additional information, which would aid
26 the Commissioners in their analysis . He commented that he
27 would approve Sign Number 1 , particularly since it has been
28 scaled down. He agreed with Mr. Brewer that two monument
29 signs would be logical , but that Sign Number 1 would serve
30 the purpose of a second monument sign. He stated that Signs
31 Number 2 and 3 were superfluous because the rental office is
32 visible from the monument sign, although he agreed that the
33 rental office should be marked in some fashion. He
34 suggested that either Sign Number 2 should be scaled down or
35 the numbers themselves made larger . Commissioner Werenicz
36 agreed that the signs were advertising in nature as well as
37 directional , but felt that that was outweighed by the fact
38 that the signs are very attractive .
3.0
40 Chairperson Madden agreed that the signs are not strictly
41 directional in nature but are a combination of advertising
42 and directional . He agreed that four signs were necessary,
43 but questioned the large size and the advertising.
44 Commissioner Wagner suggested that the advertising could be
45 left on Signs Number l and 3, but removed from the Signs
46 Number 2 and 4 .
47
48 Mr . Brewer acknowledged the Commissioners ' comments . -ie
49 reiterated that LaNel desires uniform signage . He rferred
50 the Commissioners to the example of the Twin Lake Horth
• 14
1 development. Commissioner Hansen asked Mr . Brewer to
2 describe the Twin Lake North development and the number of
3 directional signs . Mr . Brewer replied that there are many
4 directional signs because the development consists of five
5 parking lots , 20 buildings , and 276 units . Mr . Brewer
6 stated that the Twin Lake North monument sign is seven feet
7 high. Commissioner Wagner asked why the Autumn Woods sign
8 must be 16 feet high if the Twin Lake North sign is only
9 seven feet high, and why Sign Number 2 , only 50 feet down
10 the Autumn Woods driveway, repeats the same information .
11 Coimissioner Hansen pointed out that the directional signs
12 requested for Autumn Woods were three by five feet , and
13 appeared to be larger than those for the Twin Lake North
14 '3 Cv&I L. 7.�_n _ ?'1r
15 direct'_:,nal signs are approximately four and a ha_f feet
16 high by three feet wide. Mr . Brewer emphasized that signs
17 must be of sufficient size to be visible .
is
19 Motion by Wagner , seconded by Werenicz , to recommend .that
20 the Cite Council grant a variance to LaNel Financial Group,
21 Inc . fc= Autumn hoods Apartments for the signs des-ignated in
. 22 LaNel ' s proposal as Signs Number 1 and 3; that they each be
23 15 square feet in size; that Signs Number 2 and 4 be
24 directional signs with apartment complex numbers only, not
25 to exceed five square feet apiece; that if more than five
26 square feet are necessary to include the numbers on Sign
27 Number 2 , that that be included as a variance , up to ten
28 square feet maximum; that neither Sign 2 nor Sign 4 would
29 carry the logo; and that all directional signs be one-sided.
30
31 Motion carried unanimously.
32
33 Chairperson Madden introduced the issue of the temporary
34 signage located near Rosie ' s 'Restaurant and the three "now
35 renting" banners requested by LaNel . City Manager Burt
36 ' informed the Commission that there are many temporary signs
37 throughout the immediate area advertising the location of
38 Autumn Woods .
39
40 Mr. Brewer listed for the Commission the various temporary
41 signs . He stated that there is one . sign on the end of the
42 building which will come down . There is a sign in front of
43 Building A which has a picture of the building, and which
44 will come down when the monument sign goes up. As soon as
45 the directional signs go up the rental center signs will
46 come down . Mr. Brewer agreed , in response to a question by
47 Commissioner Wagner, that all the temporary signage will
48 come down by May 1 , 1990 . He indicated that LaNel may
49 return on May 1 , 1990 to ask for an extension on the
50 temporary sign near Rosie ' s Restaurant , depending upon the
• 15
1 success of the Autumn Woods leasing effort .
2
3 Commissioner Hansen reminded Mr. Brewer that the Commission
4 had asked in November that he straighten the temporary sign
5 near Rosie ' s Restaurant . Mr. Brewer replied that the sign
6 had been straightened, but Commissioner Hansen noted that it
7 is crooked again . Mr . Brewer agreed to check on the sign
8 again, although he commented that the location of the sign
9 might give it the appearance of being crooked .
10
11 Mr . Brewer stated that LaNel would like to put up three "now
12 renting" signs, one on each building, visible from major
13 traffic routes . One would be placed on the end of Building
1 B s�i l-.h a 1. i _ N_11 h �'i s 1 _ 1. 7 1. =-.7
15 banner would be c,n E :11ding A _ ricliig :.e i7'.lc . r.t this -int ,
16 LaNel is not sure that they will need a third banner and
17 have not designated a location for it, but felt that they
18 should request a thilyd in the - :c it 1t b-ecomes n=-c ssar;' .
19
20 Chairperson I,adden asked whether there would be a need for
21 the banners beyond ?'ay 1 , 1990 . Mr . Brewer replied that if
22 the complex is not fully leased by that time they would
• 23 definitely need banners beyond May 1 , and that, as a matter
24 of fact , the last building is not scheduled for completion
25 until April 1990 . He speculated that the leasing effort
26 will continue until the end of the summer.
27
28 Commissioner Wagner asked whether the timing of' the "now
29 renting" signage might be tied to the rental percentage.
30 Mr. Brewer replied that LaNel is asking that the banners be
31 allowed until December 1 , 1990, and stated that they need to
32 be, .up as long as possible in order for Autumn Woods to
33 effectively compete for occupants . City Manager Burt stated
34 that it would be easier for the City if a date were
35 determined; otherwise, they would be in a position of having
36 to monitor occupancy. Commissioner Hansen voiced the
37 opinion that a year is too long a time period. Commissioner
38 Werenicz disagreed with that opinion, stating -that the -
39 . completion and success . of the project were important -to--the
40 community and that a year did not sound unusual ' to him.
41 Chairman Madden agreed with Commissioner Werenicz .
42
43 Motion by Madden, seconded by Brown, to recommend that the
44 City Council grant a variance to LaNel Financial Group, Inc .
45 for Autumn Woods Apartments for three "now renting" banner
46 signs to be removed by December 1 , 1990; and that all
47 temporary Autumn Woods signage be removed by May 1 , 1990 .
48
49 Motion carried unanimously.
50
• -16
1 Mr. Brewer commented that there is significant interest in
2 the project, particularly by seniors , and that it is likely
3 the project might be entirely occupied by seniors in a
4 couple of years . He noted that the senior population is
5 from the St . Anthony area, rather than surrounding
6 communities .
7
8
9 MISCELLANEOUS
10
11 Commissioner Wagner noted that employee cars are frequently
12 parked on the sidewalk in front of a business located next
13 to the bakery thrift shop on the northwest corner of Silver
14 Lake Road _=nd 3 7 t,i Str.=et . He state that cars occupying
15 the sidewalk is a hazard to pedestrians . C o mnn i s s i-,n e r
16 Wagner stated that he had spoken to the owner of the
17 building who had , in turn, spoken to the owner of the
18 business , but that cars are still paged on the sidewalk .
19 City Manager Burt replied that there is an ordinance against
20 parking on the sidewalk . He stated that he will ask the
21 police department to point out the violation to the offenders in
22 the hopes that such activity will cease. If that is not
23 effective, the cars will be ticketed. He commented that
24 cars are parked right up to the curb line at the Union 76
25 gas station across from the fire department, and that city
26 officials will be meeting with the owner of the station to
27 ask him to correct the violation .
28
29 City Manager Burt announced that the City was successful in
30 having the mini-storage sign removed.
31
32 Additionally, City Manager Burt informed the Commissioners
33 of his willingness to supply them with whatever information
34 they might need from the City offices , and that advance
35 notice of such requests would be most helpful.
36
37
38 ADJOURNMENT
39
40 Motion by Hansen, seconded by Wagner, to adjourn the
41 Planning. Commission meeting at 9 : 36 p.m.
42
43 Motion carried unanimously.
44
45 Respectfully submitted,
46
,47
48
49 Doris Hoskin
50 Commission Secretary