HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL MINUTES 08201991 Meeting Sheet
101415
BOX. 19
Folder: PL MINUTES AND AGENDAS 1991
Document: PL MINUTES 08201991
1 CITY OF ST. .ANTHONY
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF
3 AUGUST 20 , 1991
4 1 . CALL TO ORDER
5 -
6 The meeting was called to order at 7: 35: p.m. with the Pledge
7 of Allegiance led by Chairman Madden.
8 =
9 2 . ROLL CALL
10
11 Present : Madden, Brownell , Faust , Franzese, Gondorchin,
12 Murphy and Werenicz
13
14 Staff Present : City Manager Burt and Management Assistant
15 Urbia
16
17 3 . APPROVAL OF JUNE 18 , 1991 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
18
19 Motion by Murphy, second by Faust to approve the minutes of
20 the June 18, 1991 Planning Commission Meeting with the
21 following corrections :
22
23 page 3, line 21 : Delete "Williams ' s" and replace with
"Williams ' "
page 13 , line 15: Change "Gondorchin" -and replace with
6 "Murphy"
27
28 Motion carried unanimously
29
30 There were no additions to the agenda for the Planning Commission
31 meeting.
32
33 4 . ' DESIGNATE COMMISSION REPRESENTATIVE TO SEPTEMBER 10, 1991
34 COUNCIL MEETING
35
36 Commissioner Brownell will represent the Planning Commission
37 at the September 10, 1991 Council Meeting.
38
39 5. PUBLIC HEARINGS
40
41 A. Thomas Shamp, 3209 Edward Street N.E. - Fence Variance
42 Request
43
44 All affected property owners have received notice of this
45 public hearing.
46
47 Mr. Shamp is requesting a variance from the fence height
48 requirements to allow for an eight foot six inch fence.
49 The request is for a two foot six inch variance from the
ordinance as the ordinance states that no fence shall be
over six feet in height .
1 PLANNING COMMISSION
AUGUST 20 , 1991
PAGE 2
4
5 STAFF REPORT
6
7 A letter was received from Mr. Shamp which addressed two
8 important issues, those being: the slope of the property
9 required for drainage and that the fence is an integral
10 part of the deck and it does not exceed the six foot
11 ' ' maximum requirement when measured from the top of -the
12 deck as compared to measuring from the ground.
13
14 Urbia showed the Commission members photos of the project
15 which displayed some planned lattice which will be in
16 place in the future. Commissioner Murphy expressed some
17 concern regarding the compliance of the deck meeting code
18 and felt the height being considered would be over the
19 allowable height .
20
21 Urbia advised that the Public works Director, Larry
22 Hamer , had 'observed that the fence may be too high and
23 recommended to Mr. Shamp he go through the variance
24 request procedure. It was noted that if the height were
25 measured from the top of the deck to the top of the fence
26 it would not be over the allowable height . If it were
7 measured from the natural grade it would be too high to
comply with the ordinance. The City Manager and the
Management Assistant advised this matter should be
30 reviewed by the Planning Commission. Mr. Shamp took this
31 advice and made the request for the variance.
32
33 Murphy inquired why the fence was installed before the
34 variance request had been submitted. Urbia responded that
35 the property owner had understood measurements would be
36 taken from the deck. Madden felt the concern of the fence
37 height is more appropriately viewed as a concern of the
38 neighbor who has to look at it and was not the
39 perspective of the one who erects it . He stated he does
40 not feel the ordinance held a narrow interpretation of
41 this regulation.
42
43 Franzese observed there is some question what is defined
44 as a fence. She feels this project does not really
45 constitute a fence. Urbia reviewed the term "fence" and
46 noted that it is not defined in the ordinance.
47
48- Murphy inquired if a deck design is addressed in the
49 ordinance. Urbia did not know if it were.
50
51 Franzese cautioned that if this were not viewed as a
52 fence the Commission could be opening up opportunities
for anyone to do anything they wanted. There could be
negative fallout by not interpreting this as a fence.
1 PLANNING COMMISSION
AUGUST 20 , 1991
PAGE 3
4
5
6 Madden observed that the fence without the lattice would
7 require a variance. Urbia advised that the Public Works
8 Director had visited the home to view the deck. Murphy
9 inquired if a building permit has been gotten. Urbia
10 responded that a building permit had been sought and that
11 the plans had been submitted at the time the permit was
12 issued.
13
14 Mr. Shamp advised that no plans were required. He stated
15 it is his intent to make this a first-class addition to
16 the neighborhood and that some of his neighbors had
17 expressed their support for his project .
18
19 The Public Hearing was opened at 7 :43 p.m.
20
21 Mr. Shamp expressed his appreciation for the comments he
22 has received from staff during their site inspection as
23 well as the comments received from members of the
24 Planning Commission.
25
26 No one spoke for or against the request .
27
Gondorchin inquired if it is Mr. Shamp' s' intention to put
41 the lattice work back into the project . Mr. Shamp
30 responded that this is his intention as the lattice work
31 makes the project more attractive. He noted that his
32 neighbors are aware that this is his intention.
33
34 Werenicz noted he had visited the site and is supportive
35 of granting the variance.
36
37 The Public Hearing was closed at 7 :46 p.m.
38
39 Motion by Franzese, second by Werenicz to grant the variance
40 from the height requirements to allow for an eight foot six
41 inch fence to Thomas Shamp at 3209 Edward Street N.E. , noting
42 that no one spoke against the project and it does comply with
43 the three conditions for granting of a variance.
44
45 Brownell stated he will not support the granting of the
46 variance as he feels the three conditions necessary for
47 granting a variance have not been answered. He sees no
48 hardship: it is not being done to correct extraordinary
49 circumstances, and the alleged difficulty or hardship is not
50 caused by City ordinances .
51
52 Franzese felt the City Council should be requested to review
the ordinances for screening and questioned if this project
would fit the definition of screening.
1 PLANNING COMMISSION
AUGUST 20 , 1991
PAGE 4
4
5
6 Madden felt that a fence is viewed as screening and vice
7 versa. He thought that most people usually thought of a fence
8 as a structure on a lot line.
9
10 Faust noted that a fence provides privacy. He would be more
11 concerned about this fence if it were to go all the way back
12 to the end of the property or if it were located on the
13 property line. He noted he can understand Mr. Shamp' s intent
14 because of the special and unique circumstances .
.1:5
16 Examples of "circumstances" were requested by Madden but none
17 were given at this time .
18
19 Faust felt that the height of the deck closes up a potentially
20 unsightly area and does add to the area. He thinks it is a
21 first class project .
22
23 Murphy observed that the project does not give a sense of a
24 closed fence and that it was very open. It only goes to the
25 end of the deck and not out into the yard.
26
Franzese felt circumstances are special and this is a special
design. Murphy felt it was unique as it does not hinder any
9 site lines nor does it block any passage.
30
31 Franzese felt the design which goes down to the ground is more
3.2 aesthetically pleasing.
33
34 Roll call : Madden, Faust , Franzese, Gondorchin, Murphy,
35 Werenicz - aye
36
37 Brownell - nay
38
39 Motion carried
40
41 Mr. Shamp was advised his attendance at the September 10th Council
42 Meeting is recommended but not required. This item will be
43 discussed early on the Council agenda.
44
45 RECESS: 8:05 P.M.
46
47 RECONVENE: 8: 12 P.M.
48
49
50 6.MISCELLANEOUS
51
52 A. Proposed Shopping Center Comprehensive Sign Plan
The City Manager advised that developers are interested
1 PLANNING COMMISSION
AUGUST 20 , 1991
PAGE 5
4
5
6 in purchasing the vacant shopping center on the corner of 39th
7 Avenue and Stinson Boulevard. They have expressed concern
8 about the success of this location with obvious visibility
9 problems.
10
11 Staff advised that this shopping center has been nearly vacant
12 for a very long time. The developers felt signage would solve
13 the problems. At the request of staff , the developers put
14 together a comprehensive sign package for this location. Staff
15 had also recommended that the developers put together a
16 package for the signage for all of the stores in the center.
17 It was felt by staff that the first signage priority was for
18 the pylon sign on the front of the property. The developers
19 agreed with this observation.
20
21 Burt stated that the signage being considered for the location
22 nearest Stinson Boulevard would be similar to the sign located
23 at the Stop & Shop business. There is space for six businesses
24 to locate in the shopping center and Burt advised that signage
25 would be based on the front square footage of the center with
26 a maximum of one-hundred and fifty feet .
46 The reason for the developers being in attendance at this
29 Planning Commission meeting is their desire for input from
30 Commission members regarding signage. They feel signage is
31 critical to the success of the shopping center. The City
32 Manager said that the developers are also proposing widening
33 of the driveways presently on the site. They are only twenty-
34 five feet wide. A sprinkler system is also being considered to
35 maintain the grassy areas .
36
37 Franzese inquired if it is the intent to identify -the shopping
38 center as well as the tenants on the monument sign. The City
39 Manager responded that this is correct . He referred the
40 Commission members to the pylon sign presently located at 19th
41 Avenue and Johnson Street which is identical to the sign being
42 proposed. The City Manager advised the monument sign can be
43 controlled by the Comprehensive Sign Plan.
44
45 Faust noted that the only issue he felt was to be considered
46 was the gas station sign. This will need a variance.
47
48 Burt also inquired if the Planning Commission would want the
49 developers to submit each sign for approval or would a
50 comprehensive sign package be preferred.
51
2 Madden requested information from the sign ordinance regarding
the requirements for gas station signage.
1 PLANNING COMMISSION
AUGUST 20, 1991
PAGE 6
4
5 '
6 The City Manager referred to the sign ordinance which stated
7 that one pylon sign is allowed which may be thirty feet in
8 height and minimum clearance from grade, a fifty square foot
9 surface and only one price sign is allowed not to exceed eight.
10 square feet .
11 .
12 Madden observed that the proposed sign does not meet this
13 criteria. Burt stated that the Stop & Shop sign identifies the
14 store and not the brand of gas being sold at the business. He
15 also noted that there are no dimensions on the bottom of this
16 sign.
17
18 The City Manager addressed the placement of a proposed
19 pedestrian crossing in the area of this shopping center. It
20 will be located near 39th Avenue. Faust stated his concern
21 with the placement of this pedestrian crossing. Madden
22 inquired if feedback will be sought from the City Council
23 regarding the placement of the pedestrian crossing. The City
24 Manager advised that the matter will be coming to the Planning
25 Commission before it will be discussed by the City Council .
26
7 Werenicz noted that the sign at the Stop & Shop measures eight
by ten. He inquired if the proposed sign could be down sized.
9 One of the developers responded that he and his partner had
30 designed this sign and all of them would be this size.
31
32 Franzese noted that the sign at the St . Anthony Shopping
33 Center lists all of its tenants . She was concerned if the
34 proposed sign would be large enough to list all six tenants.
35
36 The City Manager referred to the sign ordinance which allows
37 one "price" sign for each curb cut .
38
39 Madden inquired if the Planning Commission was expected to
40 take a formal action on this issue. The City Manager stated
41 that this agenda item was for the purposes of discussion and
42 for the developers to get a "feel" for what should be
43 addressed or adjusted with their proposal to develop the
44 shopping center.
45
46 Gondorchin stated he finds the proposed signage acceptable.
47 Faust felt it was a good idea to develop a Comprehensive Sign
48 Plan. He indicated he found the sign proposal tonight
49 acceptable but that the five by five proposed sign is very
50 unrealistic. He suggested that this size should be increased
51 in the ordinance or all of the other sign sizes should be
52 reduced. He noted that a five by five sign is not very
�3 effective.
4
PLANNING COMMISSION
AUGUST 20 , 1991
PAGE 7
4
5
6 Franzese stated she has resided in the City for twenty years
7 and never knew there was a shopping center in this location.
8 She frequents the Super America Station because of the
9 location of a cash machine at this site. She inquired if it is
10 the intent of the developers to have a cash machine installed
11 in the shopping center. They responded that this is the plan.
12
13 Brownell noted that it is very refreshing to have developers
14 come into City Hall and the Planning Commission before they
15 commence their project . He encouraged the developers to submit
16 a comprehensive sign plan. He felt a fifty foot pylon sign was
17 not realistic in this location.
18
19 Faust inquired how the size limitation on pylon signs can be
20 remedied. Brownell felt the Planning Commission should review
21 the sign ordinance. Werenicz suggested that allowable square
22 footage on both sides of a sign should be considered.
23
24 The City Manager advised that the City Attorney has totally
25 rewrote the Zoning Code. The revised Zoning Code will be on
26 the agenda of the next Planning Commission for its review.
0 The City Attorney will be starting the sign ordinance
29 recodification in the near future. Faust inquired what
30 criteria will be used by the City Attorney when relooking the
31 sign ordinance.
32
33 Burt responded that the City Attorney will be looking at
34 putting some consistency in the allowable sizes of signs,
35 visibility, clarifying language and reviewing the sign sizes
36 allowable at service stations. He noted that some businesses•
37 predictably use the maximum sizes allowed and the maximum
38 should be reviewed to be consistent with what already exists.
39 It was speculated that most of the signs which exceed the
40 maximum would probably be grandfathered in.
41
42 Referring to the proposed development of the shopping center,
43 Franzese stated her concern with the increase of traffic on
44 Stinson Boulevard and the potential problems which may occur
45 with a curb cut on Stinson Boulevard. The City Manager advised
46 that there will be a three-way stop on 39th Avenue and when
47 the signals are installed on 37th Avenue there will be better
48 traffic control .
49
50 Franzese inquired what businesses have indicated an- interest
51 in locating in the shopping center. One of the developers
responded there will be a convenience store and a gas station.
He has contacted other businesses which, have conveyed their
4 interest in being in the shopping center.
1 PLANNING COMMISSION
AUGUST 20 , 1991
PAGE 8
4
5
6- Brownell inquired if all entrances to the businesses in the
7 shopping center will face on Stinson Boulevard. The developer
8 stated that all entrances will face west and there will be no
9 wrap-around sign problems .
10
11 ' ' B.Comprehensive Plan Revisions and Kenzie Terrace Corridor
12 Moratorium
13
14 The City Manager advised that copies of the Comprehensive Plan
15 had been sent to all members of the Planning Commission. To
16 date, four members of the Commission have responded -with
17 comments and observations regarding the Comprehensive Plan.
18
19 Some members of the Planning Commission had questions and
20 concerns about the proposed Citizens ' Committee. The City
21 Manager advised that the charge of the Citizens ' Committee is
22 to act in an advisory position to the Planning Commission and
23 to make comments. It ' s charge is not to make recommendations .
24 He noted that a planner has been hired as had been suggested
25 by the Planning Commission. It is hoped that the Citizens '
26 Committee will be made up of residents from the entire
7 community, not just from the area where the moratorium is in
place.
9
30 The City Manager advised he has received calls from residents
31 expressing an interest in serving on the Citizens ' Committee.
32 He noted that the Citizens ' Committee will review the Plan and
33 pass their observations and comments onto the City Manager who
34 in turn will pass this information on to the Planning
35 Commission. The Planning Commission considers this information
36 and passes it ' s recommendations onto the City Council .
37
38 Burt recalled the Ad Hoc Committee was formed rather quickly
39 in response to the Walgreen situation. He noted that some of
40 the residents who served on the Ad Hoc Committee are very
41 interested in serving on the Citizens ' Committee and that not
42 all of these residents are from the immediate area of Kenzie
43 Terrace.
44
45 Madden noted that the Planning Commission reflects the City
46 geographically very well and it is a very broad based group.
47 The City Manager advised that the City Council has requested
48 more input for this process. It was observed that the Planning
49 Commission meetings do not attract very many residents and the
50 City Council wanted as many people as possible involved.
51
52 Gondorchin reflected on the response rate from a survey. Burt
noted that the input from a survey and the brainstorming
session was what was utilized for the Autumn Woods project and
1 PLANNING COMMISSION
AUGUST 20 , 1991
40 PAGE 9
4
5 the information gathered was very useful .
6
7 Faust felt that residents of different parts of the City have
8 some different interests . There is a need to get an overall
9 picture.
10
11 The City Manager referred to the proposed speed limit for
12 Silver Lake Road. He noted that presently a vote is being
13 taken by secret ballot of lakeshore property owners. He felt
14 this is a good example of an idea being presented and it did.
15 not reflect the position of the majority.
16
17 He was of the opinion that very good response on this issue
18 has been received and there have been some volunteers signing
19 up for the Road Task Force. Very good input and direction was
20 received from these people.
21
22 Franzese felt there is going to . be a duplication of the
23 presentation, first to a Citizens' Committee and then to the
24 Planning Commission. It was her position that the forum is
25 underused and that citizens should be encouraged to bring
26 their concerns and comments to the Planning Commission.
27
It was the-City Manager ' s observation that people respond more
46 when they are affected, such as in the case of the Walgreen' s
30 issue.
31
32 Traffic patterns and circulation was addressed as was the
33 actual physical and design planning. Also, the exits from the
34 Fire Station were considered. The City Manager felt that
35 property owners in the area know first-hand the needs of a
36 given project .
37
38 Gondorchin hoped that the plan is not only for beautification
39 but considers the issues of commerce as well .
40
41 The City Manager advised that he received a call from Roger
42 Bona, who owns a service station in the area, indicating his
43 interest in being involved in the matter.
44
45 Franzese felt that with all of the benefits to be gained from
46 a Citizens' Committee that perhaps Apache Plaza should be
47 addressed as well .
48
49 The City Manager responded that starting on the south side of
50 the City and working the way up was the decision.
51
52 Gondorchin felt the area of 37th and Silver Lake Road was an
unsightly area as well .
1 PLANNING COMMISSION
41 AUGUST 26, 1991
PAGE 10
4
5
6 The City Manager advised that sidewalks are being considered
7 for this 'area in the future.
8
9 The City Manager requested members of the Planning Commission
10 to consider the purpose of a Citizens' Committee, how it will
11 be used, and how it ' s membership will be comprised.
12
13 Madden inquired if a planner will be hired. The City Manager
14 responded that a planner will be hired for this matter. He
15 noted that a plan may be created for which there will not be
16 enough funding.
17
18 Gondorchin inquired if anything has transpired on the medical
19 facility: The City Manager responded he will contact the
20 parties who had indicated an interest in this facility.
21
22 Dennis Cavanaugh, a resident of the community, had the
23 impression that there is tremendous resistance from the
24 Planning Commission regarding having a Citizens ' Committee. He
25 felt the public hearing process appears to be somewhat
26 "brittle. " He felt what is really being looked at i.s to get
the Shopping Center viable.
29 Cavanaugh cited the area of St . Anthony Park as an area which
30 had an ambiance that could work with the St . Anthony Shopping
31 Center. He has spoken to a representative of Eberhardt
32 Development who indicated a willingness to speak with a
33 Citizens ' Committee.
34
35 Cavanaugh felt that the St . Anthony Shopping Center has been
36 marketed very poorly. He noted that the changes at the liquor
37 store made it more "user friendly. " It was his opinion that
38 not to have a Citizens ' Committee would be imprudent and that
39 members of this group should interact with the planner
40 particularly in the area of developing commercial interests.
41
42 Franzese stated that citizens groups are very valuable and
43 that members of the Planning Commission are really interested
44 and want to be part of the process .
45
46 Gondorchin stated he takes strong exception to Cavanaugh' s
47 statement regarding the resistence of the Planning Commission
48 to a Citizens' Committee. Madden felt the group was hastily
49 formed in response to the Walgreen issue and was narrowly
50 based.
51
2 Cavanaugh noted that this is a Planning Commission issue and
that the Citizens ' Committee would act as an advisory group
4 without any authority.
I PLANNING COMMISSION
AUGUST 20, 1991
PAGE 11
4
5
6- Faust stated his support of citizen involvement from all parts
7 of the community. Gondorchin hoped . it is not the wish of
8 Cavanaugh to duplicate what presently exists in St . Anthony
9 Park as it may not be as successful in our community- as 'it is
10 there.
11
12 Brownell stated his dislike for a committee which is against
13 something. He feels this kind of premise draws a very poor
14 cross section of the community. He is supportive of a survey
15 for input .
16
17 The City Manager inquired what the members of the Planning
18 Commission want him to present to the City Council . Gondorchin
19 is supportive of a survey and a Citizens ' Committee.
20
21 It was noted that a moratorium starts thirty days after it is
22 published.
23
24 Motion by Madden, second by Brownell that the Planning
25 Commission recommends to the City Council that a committee be
26 formed to study the Kenzie Terrace Corridor: that the
committee consist of residents who are geographically
representative of the City: that members be appointed by the
9 City Council ; and that a survey be conducted.
30
31 The City Manager felt the survey should focus on the entire
32 community or everything south of 29th Avenue.
33
34 Madden and Murphy felt the survey should focus on the Kenzie
35 Terrace Corridor. Brownell agreed, noting that a general
36 purpose survey was not appropriate but a narrow focus in this
37 area would be more meaningful .
38
39 Gondorchin requested that the survey be reviewed by the
40 Planning Commission.
41
42 Franzese suggested that all residents be apprised of the
43 meeting dates and times of the Citizens' Committee. The City
44 Manager felt the Cable Channel 16 and the Kiwanis bulletin
45 board could be utilized to get this information out to the
46 residents.
47
48 Motion carried unanimously
49
50 Faust inquired why the minutes of the June 4th Council meeting
51 were not in the Planning Commission packet . The City Manager
52 will follow up on this matter.
PLANNING COMMISSION
AUGUST 20 , 1991
PAGE 12
4
5
6 8 . ADJOURNMENT
7
8 Motion by Brownell , second by Werenicz to adjourn the Planning
9 Commission meeting at 9:40 p.m. .
10
ll : , - Motion carried unanimously
12
13
14 Respectfully submitted, .
15
16
17 Jo-Anne Student , Planning Commission Secretary
18
19
20
21
22