HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL MINUTES 10181994 Meeting Sheet
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Folder: PL MINUTES AND AGENDAS 1994
Document: PL MINUTES 10181994
I CITY OF ST. ANTHONY
•2 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
3 OCTOBER 18, 1994
4 I. CALL TO ORDER/PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
5 The meeting was called to order and the Pledge of Allegiance was led by Chair Gondorchin at
6 7:00 P.M.
7 II. ROLL CALL.
8 Commissioners present: Bergstrom, Makowske, Gondorchin, Faust, Franzese, and
9 Thompson.
10 Commissioners absent: Horst
11 Also present: Michael Mornson, City Manager
12 III. APPROVAL OF SEPTEMBER 20, 1994 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES.
13 Motion by Bergstrom, second by Franzese, to approve the Planning Commission minutes of
14 September 20, 1994 with the following changes:
Page 4, line 11: Remove "evaluation" and replace with "valuation"
06 Page 5, line 28: Remove "and the school tax to a maximum level of 4.5%. She also
17 commented favorably regarding the reduction of abatements".
18 Motion carried unanimously.
19 IV. DESIGNATE PLANNING COMMISSION REPRESENTATIVE TO CITY COUNCIL
20 MEETING OF OCTOBER 25, 1994.
21 Chair Gondorchin commented that Mayor Ranallo was in attendance at the Planning
22 Commission Meeting so there will be no need for representation at City Council meeting.
23 V. PUBLIC HEARINGS -NONE.
24 VI. APACHE PLAZA REDEVELOPMENT.
25 City Manager Mornson reported that the meeting tonight was a result of a request by the
26 Planning Commission to have a dialogue between the property owners and developers of Knox
27 Lumber, CUB Foods, and the owner of Apache Plaza regarding the redevelopment of Apache
28 Plaza. The objective of this meeting was to get a "feel' for the issues being presented and to
29 share ideas between the parties.
30 Jerry Narlock, Engineering Architect for Planmark (CUB),presented their proposal for the
redevelopment and addition of CUB Foods store to Apache Plaza.. He explained that they intend
41k to purchase 10 acres of land on the south side, including 140,000 to 200,000 square feet of the
33 existing mall. The existing portion of the mall would then be demolished, and their building
34 attached to that area. The store will be located where the old Montgomery Wards store was.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• October 18, 1994
Page 2
1 They purchased this much acreage so as not to get landlocked and to have access directly off
2 Silver Lake Road. The building will be approximately 75,000 square feet.
3 Mr.Narlock explained that a 0' lot line is required rather than the required 60' area separation, as
4 CUB would like to be constructed directly adjacent to the existing mall. A 60' lot line setback
5 would be a hardship to CUB as it would not leave enough room for CUB to be constructed and it
6 would not allow access to Silver Lake Road. A 0' lot line would also allow enough room in the
7 rear of the building to keep truck traffic from encroaching on any other property. He showed that
8 they intend to buffer the loading dock with landscaping versus a physical partition and also
9 landscape along the south of the building. He submitted a photograph of the Maple Grove CUB
10 Foods, as this building is similar in design to the exterior of the proposed building. He stated
11 CUB would be using earth-tone colors which would blend in with the main mall structure. It
12 would be constructed of concrete mason unit block with a glass entryway. A proposed utility
13 plan has been submitted. The water line around the existing structure would stay about the same.
14 The attached roof drainage would be directed to the existing storm sewers which would stay
15 intact. The site drainage would be diverted to detention ponds. He submitted a floor plan which
16 included a deli, a stepped-up perishable department, and a seating area for people to eat on the
17 premises.
In response to Gondorchin's question,Narlock stated that the configuration of the Maple Grove
19 store was similar to that of the proposed CUB Food store. The size of the Maple Grove store is
20 88,000 square feet but the department locations are similar.
21 Makowske questioned what the area in the northwest corner would be used for and also the 44
22 parking spaces towards the south.
23 Narlock explained that the northwest area would be used for a truck turnaround. Delivery trucks
24 will be able to enter from Silver Lake Road,circle around building perimeter access road and
25 back up to the loading docks. This will keep their trucks on their property at all times. The area
26 in the south would currently be used for employee parking but in the future, may be used for
27 expansion, based on the needs of the consumers.
28 Faust questioned if they anticipated traffic only from the east and asked if there would be direct
29 pedestrian access to the existing mall.
30 Narlock explained that they did anticipate traffic also from the west and that there was signage to
31 invite consumers on that side. There was also signage on the back of the building. There is no
32 signage on the south side as the store is not visible from that side of the mall. There will be no
33 direct pedestrian access to the mall. There will however,be a sidewalk which connects to an
34 entrance of the mall which is exposed.
•5 Bergstrom questioned what type of lighting would be used on the exterior of the building.
g
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• October 18, 1994
Page 3
1 Narlock reported that the parking lot will be well lit to discourage crime. The lights will be 2
2 foot-candles and will radiate downward.
3 Chair Gondorchin inquired as to the volume and concentration of truck traffic per day and also
4 the landscape composition.
5 Ben Herda, Civil Engineering Department of Planmark(CUB), stated that there will be truck
6 traffic 24 hours per day as CUB is a 24 hour operation. The heaviest concentration would be
7 between 4 and 10 PM. They plan to use trees or vegetation consisting of ornamental shrubs and
8 evergreens for screening the dock areas. Also,the docks are recessed 4-1/2 feet below the
9 finished floor of the parking lot and the store.
10 Bergstrom expressed concern that most of the traffic would be using one exit and entrance which
11 is located on Silver Lake Road. He commented that this area was already congested and it is
12 difficult for the northbound traffic to turn into the mall.
13 Narlock stated that customers will have access to CUB from the east and the west also.
44 Bill Poirier, Representative for Planmark, (CUB), reported that approximately 9,000 cars use this
5 roadway per week at the present time. That figure is estimated to double after the
16 redevelopment. If there is a problem where a roadway expansion would be necessary,they
17 would at that time, explore the possibility. He explained that there are still some environmental
18 issues to work out but that construction will hopefully start in September with the store opening
19 late next year.
20 Franzese inquired regarding the schedule of truck deliveries and also who would make decisions
21 regarding snow removal, etc., when there was more than one owner of property in one mall.
22 Narlock explained that there would be truck traffic all day long with most of it occurring in the
23 evening. It should not conflict or compound the traffic problem.
24 Poirier explained that the parties would have an operating easement agreement which would
25 allow for parking lot clean-up, snow removal, sidewalk cleaning, etc.
26 Makowske inquired if there was a sufficient amount of parking area and if room for snow
27 removal had been taken into account.
28 Narlock replied that there would be more than enough parking area. A CMA value of 7 is
29 favorable and this project has a value of 7.86.
WGondorchin offered that a possibility for the southbound turn-in from Silver Lake Road, would
31 be to have a better pathway cleared between the end of the building and the traffic light by TCF.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• October 18, 1994
Page 4
1 Richard Hehr, Real Estate Representative for Payless Cashways, Inc. (Knox), explained the
2 proposal for the Knox store at Apache Plaza. He explained that this is a completely different
3 concept and prototype store which they call the "Quantum Leap". It would consist of a 70,000
4 square foot masonry constructed building. It will include a "drive-through" lumber entry, which
5 leads to a fully enclosed product area. There will be 15 foot walls constructed around the
6 product area and the product area will only be visible through the entryway. Customers can
7 drive in, pick out material, load their vehicle, and pay as they go out the gate. The truck delivery
8 and unloading areas are completely enclosed. There will be approximately 1-2 scheduled
9 deliveries per day and they would occur in the evening. The parking lot and the product area will
10 be lit with mounted lights which shine-downward. There will be no loudspeakers. All
11 communication will be done with walkie-talkies. The storage buildings will be covered with
12 roofs and the product buildings will have endcaps which will denote the products inside.
13 Mr. Hehr explained they would like to construct the building adjacent to the existing mall and are
14 requesting a 0' lot line. If they were required to abide with the 60' lot line setback, they would
15 need to reduce their product area by 60'. There will be approximately 57,000 square feet of retail
16 space and 70,000 warehouse. In response to Bergstrom, Hehr stated that there will be no direct
17 access to the mall from Knox at this time, but it is still a possibility. The store will be located
where the J.C.Penney building is. They plan to demolish J.C. Penney and the Health Spa
building.
20 Gondorchin inquired as to where the truck traffic will enter the mall and if deliveries would be
21 after customer hours.
22 Hehr stated that the truck traffic would come off 39th Street and go through the parking lot to the
23 loading area. Most deliveries would be made between 7 and 10 PM.
24 Franzese asked if there would be any security for the product area at night and if there has been
25 an arrangement made with Mr. Cavanaugh for purchase of the land needed. She also questioned
26 if there was an area allocated to store snow.
27 Hehr explained that there would be locked gates across the drive through entrance to the product
28 area. They have not had problems with theft in other similar buildings. He stated that they are
29 purchasing approximately 10.5 acres from Apache Plaza. He feels there is adequate space
30 allocated to store snow based on data of other stores in the area. In response to Bergstrom's
31 question regarding the anticipated timetable, Hehr responded that the plan is to start demolition
32 on project after the 1 st of the year. Construction would begin in the spring and the store will be
33 open late next year or the beginning of 1996.
Makowske noted that there was parking area inside the product area and also outside. He asked
if the parking next to Silver Lake was shared parking.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• October 18, 1994
Page 5
1 Hehr responded that there was a cross parking agreement with the rest of the mall for that area.
2 There are approximately 300 parking spaces in that area.
3 Franzese asked what kind of value would be added to the mall and to the City of St. Anthony by
4 the addition of the CUB and Knox businesses. She also inquired if there would be some type of
5 overhang for persons going between CUB and the mall to provide protection from the weather
6 since there would be no direct access.
7 Bill Maki reported that CUB was a big "draw" for consumers. People come to CUB an average
8 of 2 times per week, as compared to Target 1.7 per month. It was also stated that CUB does have
9 an overhang. An enclosure may also be an option.
10 Gondorchin inquired as to the number of new jobs that would be created by this redevelopment
11 and also if there was any screening proposed along the north side of the building.
12 It was reported that CUB estimates the creation of 250-275 new jobs, 40-60 being full-time.
13 Knox estimates 125-130 new jobs with 100 being full-time positions. The landscaping for the
14 area to the north has not yet been decided but there will definitely be some landscaping in that
�5 area.
16 Bob Beduhn, Barr Engineering, reported on the proposed drainage systems for Apache Plaza. He
17 was charged to develop a drainage plan to capture to the extent possible, all storm water from the
18 site and get it into pond areas to meet the Rice Creek Watershed District requirements.
19 Approximately 80% of the parking area drainage would be directed to sediment ponds.
20 Currently, all the storm water is draining east to west and is picked up in the storm sewers which
21 run deeper and deeper to connect into the trunk system and then enters into Silver Lake. The
22 proposed system will take the storm water from the CUB Foods area and proposed Knox area
23 and direct it into 3 pond areas which provide skimming and sediment removal. He explained that
24 in the detention ponds, water sits in volume and allows for the sedimentation to drop to the
25 bottom. One of the proposed ponds has a small outlet which restricts the flow of water,
26 allowing the sediment to fall to the bottom for later removal. The sediment is then cleaned up
27 per a maintenance agreement between C.G. Rein and the City of St. Anthony. This agreement
28 also allows for parking lot trash removal, maintenance of ponds and inspection to ensure proper
29 operation. There will not be a pond in the east area as the area is not suitable for pondage due to
30 the slopes. C.G. Rein Co. will build the ponds and provide the trunk sewer system to the parking
31 area owned by CUB and Knox. CUB and Knox will be responsible for tying into the system and
32 providing grades to get the drainage into the systems.
33 Bergstrom inquired regarding the depth of the detention ponds,the side slopes, and the average
depth of water retained in the pond. He asked if there would be any protection installed around
the ponds, if a 10 year storm event capacity exists, and what the anticipated impact to off-site
36 areas would be if a 25 year storm event occurred.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• October 18, 1994
Page 6
1 Beduhn stated that the surface area of each of the ponds was 1/4 acre and the maximum depth
2 was 4 to 5 feet. The side slopes would be 3:1 and the average water retention would be 2-3 feet.
3 He did not know if any protection would be installed around the ponds. He explained that a wet
4 detention system requires space and as this is a retrofit system, there was a limited space issue. If
5 there was run-off, it would flow overground into the railroad yard and Silver Lake Road.
6 Franzese asked how often the sediment would be removed. She also asked if the plan was
7 designed to handle the run-off from the snow when it was moved to other areas of the parking
8 lot.
9 Beduhn stated that according to the proposed maintenance agreement, a yearly survey would be
10 done and the volume of sediment would determine the need for excavating. A volume of 50%
11 would necessitate excavating. This would be more than enough to ensure the operation of the
12 ponds. He reported that there is an existing storm sewer system in the parking lot. Regrading
13 will be done to direct all the melted snow into the sediment ponds.
14 Gondorchin asked what volume of water was being redirected to Silver Lake Road.
5 Beduhn reported that there is no water being redirected. This is a water control project to
�
6 improve the water quality going into the system.
17 Dennis Cavanaugh,president of C.G. Rein Company (Owner of Apache Plaza), furnished an
18 exhibit of Apache Plaza after redevelopment has been completed. At present, Apache Plaza is
19 generating $20 million in retail sales. CUB and Knox are expected to generate $60 to $70
20 million per year in retail sales. He explained that there are 5 ingress and egress points of access to
21 the mall and expressed that he didn't see a problem with the traffic that will be generated with
22 this project. There will be 91,000 square feet of vacancy with the property from New Market and
23 SAV Liquor Warehouse. There have been various options presented for this vacancy but no
24 decisions have yet been made. There will not be a direct access from CUB Foods to the mall at
25 this time, as it would adversely affect CUB Foods parking space. There may be a possibility of a
26 covered walkway on the south wall.
27 Bergstrom asked if there would be a protective fence surrounding the detention ponds. He also
28 asked about the proposed signage for the properties.
29 Cavanaugh responded that the issue had been raised but not thoroughly resolved. If it appeared
30 that these areas were adversely affecting the area, by being a danger to children, then the issue
31 would be addressed. He explained that the proposed sign package for CUB and Knox would be
32 addressed at the next Planning Commission meeting. In response to Makowske's questions,
33 Cavanaugh reported that New Market and SAV Liquor store will remain vacant at this time.
•4 Gondorchin announced thero osed agenda for the November 15, 1994 Planning Commission
p p g g
35 meeting. In regards to CUB Foods,the issues are 1. Lot split and 2. Variance request. The
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• October 18, 1994
Page 7
1 issues for Knox are 1. Conditional use permit, 2. Lot split, and, 3. Variance request. The other
2 items included are a comprehensive sign package and to review the drainage proposal for CUB
3 and Knox.
4 At 8:20 P.M., Gondorchin opened the meeting to questions from the public.
5 Charles Finn, 2709 Silver Lane, inquired as to where the run-off from the roof was going to
6 drain. He expressed doubt in the previous stated figure of 80%of the run-off going into
7 detention ponds. He asked why the existing trunk system is so deep.
8 Beduhn explained that the existing roof run-off had never drained into ponds. This has always
9 been picked up in the storm sewer system. He explained that the figure of 80%was in regards to
10 the parking area. He has reviewed this with the Rice Creek Watershed District and they feel it is
11 best to capture the run-off coming from the parking lots. In order to drain this area of St.
12 Anthony, the pipes are deep to match the entrance of the existing storm system.
13 Finn asked why there was no pond at the other end of the Plaza.. He felt there would be a huge
14 volume of water in that area. He questioned if the green space in that area could facilitate a
W pond.
16 Beduhn reported that in this area a pond was not physically feasible since there was no way to
17 construct effective side slopes but there were other things that could be done to treat the water in
18 that area such as using a skimmer, directing storm water into ground, etc. He stated that the
19 green space was not sufficient to house an efficient pond and could not meet design standards.
20 He has presented other options for the area to the City and also to Cavanaugh for consideration.
21
22 Finn expressed that he did not think the area of ponds was sufficient to hold the amount of run-
23 off in that area.
24 Beduhn explained that the ponds were designed to meet the Rice Creek Watershed guidelines, as
25 well as MPCA guidelines, etc. During a storm event,there may be some run-off but the pond
26 designs had been based on a 1, 10 and 100 year storm event. He explained that these ponds were
27 designed to achieve significant removal of particles from the water. Sand, grit and clay have a
28 specific gravity 3 times greater than water so they stay behind in the pond to be cleaned out at a
29 later date. The concept for these detention ponds is that the water sits in the pond and is treated
30 between storm events. When the next storm events occurs,the treated water is pushed out into
31 the sewer system and the ponds fill again. The water that is then left is treated until the next
32 storm event. Hopefully, there is enough detention time before the next storm event for sediment
4 to separate.
34
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• October 18, 1994
Page 8
1 Finn stressed that the parking area by Knox that does not have a pond is a significant risk area. If
2 toxins were spilled in that area, he felt they would run straight into Silver Lake. He requested to
3 see the capacity requirement data for the Plaza..
4 Momson stated that all of the data submitted by Barr Engineering on this subject was available
5 for review at City Hall.
6 Faust noted that the biggest potential for contamination seemed to be in the enclosed area of
7 Knox rather than the parking area and asked if that part of Knox was drained to a pond.
8 Beduhn confirmed that the area does drain to a pond.
9
10 Douglas Jones, 2505 Silver Lane, asked what requirements were used to calculate the amount of
11 drainage required for the Apache Plaza.
12 Eric Thompson, Rice Creek Watershed District, explained that the area needed in the ponds was
13 determined by volume of run-off. There needs to be enough area for 3.4 inches of water to stand
14 in a storm. This designates the width and depth required so that water will still flow through the
405 pond. There needs to be enough area for the water to slow down below the critical velocity of
6 85%to allow the sediment to settle out of the storm water. He explained that this is a
17 redevelopment project rather than a new development project, so much of the land-use has not
18 changed. There were existing paved surface and roof surface which is being.replaced with
19 reconfigured paved surface and roof surface. The pond areas will be treated according to the
20 Rice Creek Watershed District standards. He reported that the drainage plans proposed by Ban
21 Engineering will be brought before the Rice Creek Watershed District Board next week and will
22 be recommended for approval.
23 Jones asked if there was a plan for landscaping on the green strip along the lower end of the
24 parking lot. He cited the new Eden Prairie Menards which has planted mature trees as buffer
25 screens.
26 Hehr stated that the green strip had not yet been formulated but that there was a possibility of
27 that. In response to Gondorchin, Hehr replied that he was not aware if there was a contingency
28 plan in place to handle the possibility of volatile chemicals being spilled in the parking area,but
29 that he would find out.
30 Jones inquired if there was a snow storage plan in place. He expressed concern in regards to all
31 of the snow being stored in an area where there was no drainage. He also inquired as to the
32 possibility of more drainage being added further down the system.
Cavanaugh stated that this was not economically feasible.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• October 18, 1994
Page 9
1 Faust inquired as to who piled that snow there and asked if it would be difficult to congregate the
2 snow elsewhere.
3 Cavanaugh reported that C.W. Houle and Co. is retained to plow the snow. He stated that it
4 would be cost prohibitive to truck the snow to another location.
5 Beduhn explained that due to hydraulics, it is not feasible to pick up water and get it to the pond.
6 He again stated that there were different options available to treat the water. He presented a chart
7 which showed examples and their relative costs. Each example escalated in cost as it became
8 more extensive. He stated that there had been discussions and meetings with the Rice Creek
9 Watershed District regarding regional plan studies but no plans had been made at this time to
10 install further drainage.
11 Finn stressed that this may be an opportunity to look at other avenues of drainage, since the area
12 would be under construction.
13 Gondorchin assured Finn that his points were well taken. He stated that they would be included
14 in the meeting minutes and would be read by both the City Council and the City Engineer.
05 Makowske, Faust, Bergstrom, and Thompson indicated support for the proposed concept and
16 design. Thompson noted that he still would like to see an entrance through the stores directly to
17 the mall.
18 VI. MISCELLANEOUS.
19 A. Planning Commission Terms Expiring December 31, 1994.
20 Chair Gondorchin opened the discussion on the expiration of Planning Commission members
21 terms. He reminded any member whose term was expiring that their intent to serve must be
22 submitted in writing before the deadline. The positions are open to residents of St. Anthony an
23 article has been placed in the City Newsletter.
24 VII. COMMISSIONERS COMMENTS.
25 A. Chair
26 Chair Gondorchin inquired as to the sidewalk reconstruction on 37th and Stinson. He also asked
27 about the blacktop walk at the athletic field.
28 City Manager Morrison related that he was not aware of any projected sidewalk reconstruction
29 but that he will inquire and report back.
0
30 B. Commissioner
31 Franzese reported her attendance at a meeting of the Hennepin County Parks Committee.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
October 18, 1994
Page 10
1 Bergstrom reported his attendance at a meeting of the Environmental Quality/Recycling Task
2 Force. They have published an article in the most recent City newsletter. They are
3 recommending the City use a single haul system for their recycling. They intend to suggest that
4 the City conduct a survey of the St. Anthony residents to see if they are in favor of a single
5 hauler system. They would like to include the survey on the next.meter reading card sent to
6 residents. They are intending to publish an article in the next City newsletter in January to
7 inform residents about the idea.
8
9 VII. ADJOURNMENT.
10 Motion by Gondorchin, second by Makowske to adjourn the meeting at 9:26 P.M.
11 Motion carried unanimously.
12 Respectfully submitted,
103 Lorri Kopischke
4 TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial