HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL MINUTES 11151994 . Meeting Sheet
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Folder: PL MINUTES AND AGENDAS 1994
Document: PL MINUTES 11151994
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I CITY OF ST. ANTHONY
•2 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
3 NOVEMBER 15, 1994
4 I. CALL TO ORDER
5 The meeting was called to order by Chair Gondorchin at 6:00 P.M.
6 II. ROLL CALL.
7 Commissioners present: Bergstrom, Makowske, Gondorchin, Horst, Faust, Franzese, and
8 Thompson.
9 Commissioners absent: None.
10 Also present: Michael Mornson, City Manager, Mayor Ranallo, William Soth,
11 City Attorney, Councilmembers Fleming and Wagner, Larry
12 Hamer, Public Works Director.
13
14 III. APPROVAL OF OCTOBER 18, 1994 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES.
15 Motion by Thompson, second by Bergstrom,to approve the Planning Commission minutes of
October 18, 1994 with the following changes:
17 Page 1, line 21: Remove "Mayor Ranallo was in attendance " and replace with "there were
18 no motions or ordinances passed".
19 Page 4, line 35: Add "Road" after "Silver Lake".
20 Page 9, line 31: Remove "Parks Committee",replace with"Hennepin County Public
21 Works Commission".
22 Page 10, line 3: After "Recycling", add "and garbage".
23
24 Motion carried unanimously.
25 IV. DESIGNATE PLANNING COMMISSION REPRESENTATIVE TO COUNCIL'S
26 NOVEMBER 22, 1994 REGULAR MEETING.
27 Commission Franzese will represent the Planning Commission at the November 22, 1994
28 Council Meeting.
29 V. REQUEST FOR OUTSIDE STORAGE FROM HAPPY'S POTATO CHIPS,3900
30 CHANDLER DRIVE.
31 City Manager Mornson reported that Happy's Potato Chip Company is requesting approval to
32 install six storage tanks. Five of the tanks will be 24 feet high and one tank will be 30 feet high.
33 The tanks will be used for storage of bulk-popcorn, located in the existing receiving area, and
will not have an impact on the existing parking. There is no public hearing required for the
164 request. These tanks are considered storage sheds and according to the light industrial ordinance
36 where Happy's is located, storage sheds that do not exceed one story in height,have to be
37 approved by the Council and also have to be recommended by the Planning Commission. In
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• November 15, 1994
Page 2
1 response to Commissioner Makowske's question, Mornson stated that the tanks would be subject
2 to the typical building inspection by the Building Department and that all other current
3 ordinances will be complied with.
4 Lorin Yenor, Plant Manager for Happy's Potato Chips,reported that he needs these tanks for the
5 purpose of bulk storage of popcorn and corn meal. There will also be an addition to the roof
6 required for the purpose of unloading. In response to Commissioner Makowske, Yenor reported
7 that the tanks will be sealed. They are constructed of steel and epoxy lined. The tanks will be 5
8 feet above ground for the purpose of unloading with a conveyor. They will be loaded from the
9 top from semi-trailers. The tanks will be skirted all the way to the ground. There will be no
10 problem with rodents,or emissions. The tanks will not result in additional ground water, as there
11 is concrete on the existing site. This type of storage is economically feasible for Happy's as they
12 can order inventory by whole semi-loads rather than partial loads.
13 Chair Gondorchin asked if the installation of these tanks would result in the reduction of parking
14 area. He stated that Happy's was a well-maintained facility and the tanks appear to be a general
15 improvement by making Happy's a more viable business.
Yenor responded that the tanks would be installed where the semi's used to back into the
driveway at Happy's and the parking area would not be diminished.
18 In response to an unidentified neighboring resident, Yenor stated that the existing smoke stack
19 would be removed and the tallest tank would extend 7 feet above the garage door.
20 In response to Commissioner Franzese, Yenor reported that Happy's hopes to install the tanks in
21 January of 1995 and have them operational by early Spring.
22 Planning Commission unanimously voiced recommendation to City Council to approve the
23 addition of outside storage at Happy's Potato Chips, 3900 Chandler Drive.
24 Chair Gondorchin urged the petitioner to attend the City Council meeting on November 22, 1994
25 for final commitment of the proposed addition.
26 VI. PUBLIC HEARINGS.
27 A. Lot coverage variance request for 3929 Fordham Drive.
28 At 6:14 P.M., Chair Gondorchin opened the public hearing for a lot coverage variance request for
29 3929 Fordham Drive, which would allow a total lot coverage of 48%.
City Manager Mornson reported Thomas and Diane Schroeder are proposing to demolish their
31 present home at 3929 Fordham Drive and build a new home that will accommodate a wheelchair.
32 The house and garage will cover 38% and the driveway 10%of the lot. The ordinance permits a
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 3
1 30% lot coverage and the Schroeders are requesting a 48%lot coverage which would require an
2 18% lot coverage variance. Morrison cited the four criteria under which a variance could be
3 granted: 1. The property cannot be put to a reasonable use without the variance. 2. The
4 circumstances causing the hardship were not created by the'owner. 3. The variance, if granted,
5 will not alter the essential character of the locality. 4. Economic considerations alone are not the
6 basis of the hardship.
7 Thomas Schroeder, owner of the property, explained that their plan is to demolish the existing
8 home. The reason they are requesting the variance is their lot is 7410 square feet, which is
9 smaller than the average St. Anthony lot size of 9400 square feet(based on figures obtained from
10 Larry Hamer). The new home would have to be one-story as his wife is confined to a
11 wheelchair. He stated that.these are the two reasons cited for the hardship.
12 Commissioner Franzese asked where the garage was located and if there would be any way to
13 reduce the size of the driveway.
14 Mr. Schroeder replied that the garage was located at the front North corner of the house and that
15 it was not possible to reduce the size of the driveway, as there is a right-of-way from the street
Wand they cannot go any closer to the street.
17 Chair Gondorchin inquired as to Mr. Schroeder's attempt to purchase the parcels of land to the
18 north or south of their property.
19 Mr. Schroeder responded that Mr. Botnick, the owner of the property on both sides of the lot, is
20 not interested in selling his parcels, and, in fact,had asked Schroeder if he was interested in
2.1 selling his lot.
22 Commissioner Franzese inquired if all adjacent property owners had been shown, and had
23 approved of,the proposed building plan.
24 Mr. Schroeder advised that Mr. Botnick, who owns the lot to the north, south and east of the
25 property had been shown the plans but Al Reed, another adjacent property owner had not been
26 shown the plan. Mr. Schroeder was not aware if Mr. Botnick was in approval of the proposed
27 plan.
28 Commissioner Makowske asked if there was any unusual grading on the property or any
29 topographical issues that could be used to show a hardship and make this a unique case.
30 Mr. Schroeder reported that he was not aware of any.
Ol Unidentified resident asked Mr. Schroeder when the proposed building of the home would take
32 place and how long it was expected to take to completion.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• November 15, 1994
Page 4
1 Mr. Schroeder explained that he hoped to start the project in the.Spring of 1995 and it would take
2 approximately 90 days to completion.
3 Chair Gondorchin closed the public hearing at 6:27 P.M.
4 Commissioner Makowske commented that the lot is a substandard lot but that even if the lot was
5 the standard 9400 square feet, the proposed home would still be larger than the allowed 30%lot
6 coverage.
7 Chair Gondorchin explained that the Planning Commission is bound by regulations set up by the
8 State of Minnesota. Due to the fact that the lot is a buildable lot, the circumstances are peculiar
9 to the Schroeder's own particular situation rather than being created by the land. The regulations
10 make it difficult to grant a variance under these circumstances.
11 In response to Commissioner Makowske, City Manager Momson explained that the variance of
12 the ordinance must be centered on the property and the American of Disabilities Act(ADA) does
13 not apply.
�4 In response to Thompson, the Schroeders explained they had purchased the house with the
5 understanding that they would remodel and put on an addition. They have completed as much
16 remodeling as possible and now find that their best option would be to demolish the whole house
17 and build new.
18 Commissioner Franzese asked if any research had been done at the.State level for hardship cases
19 where the extraordinary circumstances pertain to the occupant rather than to the land itself. .
20 City Manager Mornson reported that he had checked with the City Attorney and had been
21 informed that there was no cause under the ADA and no studies had been done by the State
22 either..
23 Motion by Commissioner Makowske, second by Bergstrom to recommend City Council not
24 grant a lot coverage variance for the property at 3929 Fordham Drive in that the hardships are not
25 sufficient to grant a variance.
26 Motion carried unanimously.
27 Chair Gondorchin urged the petitioner to attend the City Council meeting on November 22,
28 1994, to re-present the request for reconsideration.
19 Chair Gondorchin declared a recess at 6:30 P.M.
30 At 7:01 P.M., Chair Gondorchin reconvened the meeting to consider the approval of the
31 subdivision of Apache Plaza.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 5
1
2 Mayor Ranallo reported the key dates concerning the Apache Redevelopment Project.
3 January 3. 1992 - The Mayor and City Council received a letter from Pat Groeper of Supervalu
4 to express CUB's commitment to St. Anthony.
5 January 17. 1992 - The City received a request from C. G. Rein to provide tax increment funding
6 (TIF) assistance for the renovation of Apache Plaza. A discussion was held on eligible TIF costs.
7 The City directed C. G.Rein to work with Rice Creek Watershed District to improve water
8 quality. The City also discussed structuring the TIF so the City wouldn't lose Local Government
9 Aid (LGA) estimated at$260,000.
10 January 28, 1992 - The City filed a petition with Rice Creek Watershed District to undertake a
11 watershed improvement. The staff of Rice Creek informed City staff that it is very unlikely that
12 the district will fund the improvement, and therefore, the City and Watershed District agree not
13 to proceed with the petition.
14 February 19 and June 24, 1992 - Two letters were received from Jerry Gilligan, City Attorney to
15 City Manager, Mayor and Councilmembers summarizing how the TIF project will work and
16 advising them that the issue of storm water run-off had been raised with C. G. Rein and they had
17 been made aware that this needed to be addressed.
18 August 18, 1992 - The Planning Commission reviewed the Apache Redevelopment and discusses
TIF. The Planning Commission was in support of the project and discussed the importance of
improved water quality for Silver Lake and what was required to improve the quality. C. G. Rein
21 sent a letter to the City Manager stating the firm was currently working with Rice Creek
22 Watershed District.
23 August 25. 1992 - A Public Hearing was held by the City Council on the TIF Plan and the TIF
24 Plan was adopted. Improved storm water run-off was made as one of the objectives of the Plan
25 by the Mayor and Councilmembers.
26 January. 1993 -Pat Groeper of SuperValu submitted a letter to the City reaffirming SuperValu's
27 commitment to build a CUB Food store in St. Anthony.
28 February 24. 1993 - Storm water plan was submitted to Rice Creek Watershed for the installation
29 of 13 skimming devices on the 52 acre site which was in excess of what was required. The
30 Watershed District stressed that redevelopment does not change the existing site as to more
31 impervious surface.
32 March 23. 1993 - City held second Public Hearing on amendments to the TIF Plan for
33 redevelopment of Apache Plaza. At this point the Council agreed to extend the payback of the
34 TIF plan to 15 years.
35 April 21, 1993 - The City filed the Apache TIF Plan with Ramsey County. The City at that time
36 said that it would spend $250,000 in water quality improvements.
37 November 8. 1993 - City held a Special Council meeting with the Silver Lake Homeowners to
38 discuss drainage into Silver Lake from Wexford Heights, Silver Lake Road, and Columbia
39 Heights drainage. Steve Wood of the Rice Creek Watershed District, Ramsey County, Salvation
40 Army Camp, Columbia Heights and New Brighton Engineers were all in attendance. Ponds were
& discussed for CUB Foods at Apache Plaza but there was no firm proposal at that time. At this
42 meeting it was determined that the diversion to Mear Lake was not feasible. The.City Council
43 informed Steve Wood that ponds would be better than skimmers for Apache.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 6
1 June 1994 to September 1994 - Representatives of CUB, Knox and C. G. Rein held a series of
2 meetings, all separately, with the Mayor, City Manager and Public Works Director. At these
3 meetings, the three entities informed the City that they were getting close to working out the
4 details of the Apache redevelopment. CUB and Knox targeted construction to start in 1995 with
5 store openings in the latter part of 1995. At all of these meetings, it was stressed that the storm
6 run-off, with the three ponds, had to be resolved before talks about TIF and the public hearings
7 could begin. Apache Plaza hired Barr Engineering to develop drainage ponds to accommodate
8 the run-off. The plans were completed the summer of 1994 with the three ponds. According to
9 Barr Engineering, 80% of the roof and parking lot run-off would run directly into the storm
10 sewers.
11 September 20. 1994 - Mayor Ranallo was requested to meet with the members of the Silver Lake
12 Homeowners Association to discuss alternatives. At this time, Ranallo stated that all discussions
13 would be held in a public forum.
14 October 20. 1994 - Planning Commission reviewed the concept plans for both CUB and Knox as
15 well as drainage plans from Dennis Cavanaugh (C. G.Rein). Rice Creek staff attended the
16 meeting to inform the Planning Commission that they will recommend approval of the three
17 ponds as presented by Dennis Cavanaugh to the Planning Commission.
18 October 26, 1994 - Rice Creek Watershed District tabled plans due to new watershed rules that
�9 were adopted 2 or 3 weeks before. Residents of Silver Lake Homeowners attended the meeting
�p and requested the Watershed District to require Dennis Cavanaugh to do more.
21 November 8. 1994 - Rice Creek Administration held a meeting in Room 9 of City Hall. City
22 staff, Silver Lake Homeowners (with their attorney) and C.G. Rein were present. No
23 compromise on the water run-off issue was reached.
24 November 9, 1994 - The Silver Lake Homeowners Association directed their attorney to file a.
25 petition with the Environmental Quality Board for the establishment of an Environmental
26 Assessment Worksheet(EAW). That evening the Rice Creek Watershed District was scheduled
27 to reconsider the Apache permit,but they were required to table the issue again due to the
28 petition that had been filed.
29 November 15. 1994 - The Planning Commission meeting.
30 November 22, 1994.- The City Council meeting.
31 Mayor Ranallo discussed the different options available for resolution of this issue. He stressed
32 that continuing to hold with the studies as Rice Creek Watershed District did, and Silver Lake
33 Homeowners Association have wanted us to do, would endanger this projects completion.
34 B 1. Lot Split, CUB Foods, Apache Plaza, as presented by Mr. Dennis Cavanaugh, C. G. Rein
35 Co., into four sections with Payless Cashways/Knox on the north end including a portion
36 of the current Apache Plaza Mall
37 City Manager Morrison reported that the item under consideration is a public hearing on the
subdivision of Apache property. If this proceeds, the final plat will go to the City Council
39 meeting on November 22, 1994. Approximately 42 acres is proposed to be subdivided into 4
40 lots. The first lot would be for SuperValu/CUB and would consist of approximately 390,000
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 7
1 square feet. The second lot would be for Knox/Payless Cashway Lumber Store and would
2 consist of 445,000 square feet. The third would be what is left of the mall and would consist of
3 943,000 square feet. The fourth would be for First Bank and would consist of 55,000 square
4 feet.
5 Dennis Cavanaugh, C. G. Rein, presented an exhibit which illustrated what is to be accomplished
6 with this subdivision. CUB Foods is acquiring 8.96 acres. They will demolish 140,000 square
7 feet of the existing building and reconstruct 75,200 square feet of new building, which would be
8 attached to the existing mall. Knox Lumber will be acquiring 10.23 acres. They will demolish
9 106,000 square feet of the existing mall and reconstruct 70,000 square feet of warehouse and
10 retailing space and attach to the existing mall. In addition, Knox will construct 60,000 square
11 feet of outside storage buildings. The third lot of 55,000 square feet is currently occupied by
12 First Bank. This lot was subdivided from the rest of the premises because First Bank is in need
13 of some additional drive up facilities. The remaining subdivision contains Tires Plus, Taco Bell
14 and the "Apache Annex", the back part of.the building. The building is approximately 91,000
15 square feet but is not part of this subdivision.
16
17 Commissioner Makowske asked if First Bank was acquiring more land than they currently were
�8 using and also if there would be cross parking agreements with the lot splits.
19 Cavanaugh reported that the bank is currently utilizing 40,000 square feet. The only change
20 being made is a small "finger" of land to accommodate expansion of the drive up facility. He
21 also verified that there will be cross parking agreements.
22 B2. Variance request to allow a zero lot line, side yard setback which will allow the proposed
23 CUB Foods to be built directly adjacent to the remaining Apache Plaza Mall.
24 City Manager Morrison reported that the next issue is a variance request from.CUB Foods. CUB
25 will need to obtain approval of a setback variance of 15 feet to allow construction of their
26 building on the north end of the CUB property with a zero foot lot line placement. According to
27 the Uniform Building Code, if the structure is placed on a lot away from the Apache property,
28 they would need to be 60 feet away which would prohibit the size of the facility they are
29 planning to build. If it is a zero foot lot line, according to the building inspector, it can be
30 considered part of the building with a fire separation. A zero foot lot line is permitted by the
31 Uniform Building Code.
32 Commissioner Thompson stated that he would still like to see an entrance directly into the mall
33 from both CUB Foods and Knox Lumber. He stated that it would enhance and preserve the
34 image of the mall.
Jerry Narlock, Engineering Architect for Planmark (CUB), presented their proposal for the
36 redevelopment and addition of the CUB Foods store directly adjacent to Apache Plaza. They are
37 proposing to buy approximately nine acres of land of which 142,000 square feet would consist of
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• November 15, 1994
Page 8
1 the existing mall. That said portion would be demolished and the new CUB Foods of
2 approximately 75,000 square feet, would be constructed adjacent to the remaining mall structure.
3 This is the reason for the request of the zero foot lot line setback. CUB Foods would have access
4 directly off Silver Lake Road by the existing driveway to the south. The front of the building
5 and the parking area would face Silver Lake Road. The receiving area would be in the rear of the
6 building on the west and face south toward the railroad right-of-way. The colors of the outside
7 of the building will blend well with the color scheme of the existing mall and will enhance the
8 appearance of the mall on this end. They are proposing to enhance the green areas with
9 landscaping. The receiving area will be heavily screened with evergreens to maintain the
10 screening of the dock year round. He asked for approval from the Planning Commission of the
11 zero foot lot line setback. This is allowable under the Uniform Building Code. Mr.Narlock
12 stated it would be a hardship if CUB is required to comply with the 60 foot separation between
13 CUB Foods and the existing mall. There would not be a project at this time if a 60 foot setback
14 is required.
15 C. Variance request for a zero lot line which will allow the proposed Knox Lumber to be
16 constructed adjacent and connected to the remaining Apache Plaza Mall and a request for
17 a conditional use permit for outside storage of building materials.
aCity Manager Momson reported that Knox is requesting a variance from the 15 foot lot line
19 required by ordinance to a zero foot lot line. This is permitted by the Uniform Building Code. In
20 addition, Knox is requesting a conditional use permit for their facility. Their plans indicate that
21 all their materials, lumber, etc.,will be under roofs. They have also proposed a 15 foot block
22 wall with plantings along the outside wall for screening. There will be lighting on the outside of
23 the structures.
24
25 Richard Hehr, Real Estate Representative for Payless Cashways, Inc. (Knox), presented the
26 proposed plan for their store at Apache Plaza. He stated that Knox is proposing to build a new
27 prototype store at Apache Plaza which is unlike any other Knox store in the Minneapolis area.
28 The 70,000 square foot building will be of masonry construction. It is a "user-friendly" store.
29 The main basis of the new concept is called the "quantum leap" entryway into the product area.
30 This consists of a drive-through entryway to the product area which is completely enclosed. The
31 only visibility to see into the product area is through the drive-through entryway. There are also
32 two toll booths in the drive-through entryway. All the truck deliveries that are made into the
33 product area will be completely screened. The customer will enter the drive-through entry,being
34 directed by various signs in the product area, will pick out needed material, load it into their
35 vehicle, drive back, and pay for the product through their car window at the toll booth. There
36 will be landscaping both on the west end of the property and as many plantings as possible on the
37 north end of the property. In response to Commissioner Faust, Mr. Hehr reported they will
utilize the existing lighting in the parking area. In the product area,building mounted lighting
systems will be used that shine downward. There will be no loudspeakers used. All
40 communication will be done through walkie-talkies. He asked that the Planning Commission
41 approve the variance for the zero foot lot line. If Knox is required to abide by the 60 foot
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 9
1 setback, physically they will not be able to have the size of product area they need to.have for the
2 project to be economically feasible.
3 At 7:37 P.M., Chair Gondorchin then opened the public hearing for the variance request for a
4 zero lot line which will allow the proposed Knox Lumber to be constructed adjacent and
5 connected to the remaining Apache Plaza Mall and a request for a conditional use permit for
6 outside storage of building materials.
7 Chair Gondorchin read a letter received on November 13, 1994 from Gary and Katie Simons,
8 1512 2nd Terrace S.W., expressing their enthusiastic support for bringing CUB Foods and Knox
9 Lumber to the community. They stated that they believe that these two quality establishments
10 can provide the boost that Apache Plaza desperately needs and they are concerned about the
11 future of Apache Plaza without the addition of these businesses.
12 Eileen Spano, Representative of Saint Anthony Court Homeowners Association, expressed their
13 organization's enthusiasm and gave their vote of approval for the project.
14 Lowell Timmersman, 3221 Wehdhurst, a 20 year resident of St. Anthony, thanked Cashway
5 Lumber and CUB Foods for considering Apache Plaza, for spending money that creates jobs,
helps pay taxes and makes jobs for our children. He said it is a great program and is looking
17 forward to having the businesses in the village.
18 George Wagner, Representative of the St. Anthony Village Kiwanis, strongly supports the
19 expansion of Apache Plaza to include the addition of businesses such as Knox and CUB Foods
20 stores. On November 3, 1994, the St. Anthony Kiwanis Board of Directors voted unanimously
21 to support this project. They believe several benefits accrue to the community from these new
22 stores, and consider the following high on the list: 1. Hundreds of new jobs will be available, 2.
23 Two excellent new business citizens in the community, 3. More support for education through
24 higher tax revenue, 4. A wider variety of stores for shopping convenience, 5. Higher property
25 values due to proximity of shopping, 6. Increased tax base will ease tax pressure on local
26 residents and businesses. Kiwanis urges all residents of St. Anthony to support the process of
27 enabling these stores to be established in the Village.
28 Frank Budnicki, 3124 Wilson St. N.E., expressed his agreement with all that had been said.
29 Roy Genaw, 3404 Roosevelt St. N.E., a 40 year resident of St. Anthony, stated he was one of the
30 people who was involved in bringing.Apache Plaza into the Village 35 years ago. He requested
31 to have the tax increments of the projects explained, including how much was to be borrowed,
32 amount of time, anticipated rate of interest, and what the money is going to be used for.
City Manager Momson explained that the following numbers have not been approved by the
'IR4 City Council as of yet, as that is one of the last steps in the process. The amount of money that is
35 anticipated to be borrowed for this project is $3,100,000. Net proceeds are anticipated to be
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• November 15, 1994
Page 10
1 $2,450,000. The net proceeds will be for the following: $250,000 is being set aside for the
2 development of the three holding ponds being proposed by the developer, $700,000 is being
3 proposed for the assistance of the demolition and land right down for Knox Lumber, $1,200,000
4 is being proposed for the demolition and land right down for CUB Foods, and an additional $2-
5 300,000 is being set aside for C. G. Rein to use for demolition and other expenses. The
6 remaining $600,000 of this tax increment is being used for City costs such as capitalized interest.
7 The City will need to make bond payments but there will be no money coming in and there will
8 be issuance costs as the City will need to hire someone to help with the financing of this issue.
9 He reported that as stated earlier by the Mayor, Tax Increment Financing that the City has set up
10 for their other districts, have gone no longer than 10 years. However, because of the impact in
11 terms of taxes and jobs, etc., of this project,the City has directed the staff,that they would be
12 willing to go 15 years. This Tax Increment Fund was set up in 1993 to avoid changes in
13 legislature which would have cost the City $60-200,000. This cost would have been spread out
14 over everyone's taxes. Because of interest rates going up and the delay in the project,the City
15 will now be borrowing money for 17 years. The valuation of Apache is approximately
16 $6,000,000. The valuation the City will be using for tax increment purposes is $7,900,000. The
17 money the City will be using for these project costs and the bond issuances will be a new value
18 which has to be firmed up by the developers and the Ramsey County Assessors Office. It is
estimated at$14,000,000.. The difference between these two amounts, $7,000,000 will go into
the City's tax increment district and it is anticipated this will be $404,000 per year in additional
21 tax revenue. Currently, based on figures obtained from the assessors office,the mall is paying
22 $365,000. This will double what is coming in for taxes. However, the money is tax payer's
23 money and is not a loan. It is money that Knox, CUB, and the rest of the mall will be paying, as
24 they would normally be paying; however, it will all go to the City instead of the school, county
25 and Metropolitan Council,until the bonds are paid off or the City decertifies their tax increment
26 district.
27 City Manager Morrison confirmed that Genaw was correct in calculating that the Village would
28 be in debt $350,000 to $450,000 per year for the next 17 years with no improvement in the tax
29 base. City Manager Morrison also confirmed that the project at 3111 Silver Lake Road was
30 indeed a good project and was increasing the tax base, as it is not in a tax increment project.
31 Commissioner Faust commented that if we do not back the tax increment we still stay at the
32 $7,000,000 evaluation and never go any higher. The money that is being used to pay the City for
33 the bonds is paid by the property owners in Apache Plaza.
34 Commissioner Franzese commented that if there are no improvements made at Apache, it will
35 not stay at the $7,000,000 level but will continue to decrease. It has decreased by 65% in the
36 past five years.
Chair Gondorchin added that there will be further development coming into the area because of
38 the addition of CUB Foods and Knox and this will also increase the tax revenues.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 11
1 Kirk Larson, 3509 Maplewood Drive, spoke of memories of Apache first being built. In the last
2 few years he has watched it die. He feels that we now have an opportunity to bring it back, so
3 let's do it.
4 Karen Benson, 3208 Roosevelt Street, stated that she as a mother, is in total support of this
5 project. She feels that Apache has recently become a hangout for kids. She said there is nothing
6 in the community for jobs for teenagers and children. She is hopeful that these businesses will
7 come in and provide jobs for the kids.
8 Geraldine Shaughnessy, 3113 36th Avenue, stated that she is in total support of Knox and CUB
9 and feels that the project is long overdue. Apache used to be a beautiful center. She is excited to
10 get it back and get it going. She stated she has noticed kids hanging out there and loitering. She
11 feels Apache will become an eyesore if nothing is done.
12 Betty Spano, 3323 Garfield Street N.E., spoke as employee of Apache Plaza. She stated that the
13 community really depends on a center like this. A lot of people in the area would not be able,to
14 take advantageof a mall situation if it was not as accessible as Apache. She is in support of
15 CUB and Knox coming into the Mall.
James Hoska, 3209 31st Avenue N.E., stated that he moved into the village 10 years ago and at
17 that time, Apache was prospering. In the last few years, he has seen it die on the vine. He
18 became very excited when he heard that CUB and Knox were coming into the mall. He
19 expressed his approval of the project. He has seen kids loitering at the mall and feels that with
20 new jobs coming into the mall, it will benefit our children.
21 Sherry Hanson, 3530 Skycroft Drive, states that she agrees with everything everyone has said.
22 She asked that it be considered to have doorways coming into the mall from both stores.
23 Jeanette Dick, 3519 N.E. Harding, a 25 year resident of St. Anthony, is wondering if the persons
24 who are in opposition to the water run-off into Silver Lake have also questioned Wexford
25 Heights, Silver Lake Camp, all the other businesses in the area, and considered the water run-off
26 from Silver Lake Road. She also questioned how many residents around the lake use Chemlawn
27 or other chemicals that run into the lake. She expressed that she was in favor of the project and
28 that she feels it will bring a lot into the area.
29 Rob Lundeen, 3912 Fordham Drive, asked if Silver Lake Road was going to be widened and
30 expressed concern that the run-off from Tom Thumb into Silver Lake was heavy.
31 Public Works Director, Larry Hamer, stated that they are going to change the pondage in the
32 Salvation Army Camp and the end of construction will be approximately 300 feet north of Silver
Lane.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 12
1 Mr. Lundeen asked if Apache Plaza was still in bankruptcy and how the size of this CUB Foods
2 will compare to the store located at Northtown or in Little Canada.
3 Dennis Cavanaugh responded that Apache Plaza is not in bankruptcy but that it was in
4 receivership. He stated that this will not affect the project at all.
5 Narlock informed the audience that CUB Foods at Apache would be 75,000 square feet and
6 compared it to the Maple Grove store which is 88,000 square feet.
7 Chair Gondorchin added that there has been an allotment to the south made for expansion of the
8 CUB store at a later date to the 88,000 square foot size.
9 Mr. Lundeen expressed concern as to the people living on Silver Lake and inquired as to the size
10 of the ponds that were being installed.
11 Chair Gondorchin explained that the ponds would be addressed later in the meeting. He stated
12 that the ponds meet the Rice Creek Watershed District recommendations at the time the plans
13 were completed and submitted.
aWayne Mikkola, 3518 Skycroft Drive, expressed his full support for the project.
15 Jim McNulty, 2921 33rd Avenue N.E., stated he was on the Council at the time Apache was
16 built. At that time it instilled a vitality in the community. This is what he thinks this project will
17 do now. He doesn't want to see a wall built up between the people on Silver Lake and the other
18 residents in the community. He feels that these ponds are taking care of a good percentage of the
19 drainage. He hopes that the people of Columbia Heights, Wexford Heights and the people
20 around Silver Lake are taking care of their fertilizers and nutrients that may be going into the
21 lake.
22 Commissioner Faust stated that he lives on Silver Lake and there is not a wall being created
23 between the residents on Silver Lake and the rest of the community. Silver Lake is considered a
24 St. Anthony "treasure". He has worked very hard on the preservation of the lake, along with Dr.
25 Carr, Wexford Heights, Columbia Heights,New Brighton, and Ramsey County. The Silver Lake
26 Homeowners Association does a lot to reduce pollution in the lake. However, there still are a lot
27 of people who put the phosphorus into the lake.
28
29 Mary Bauer, 4000 Foss Road#103, said that she was there to see the first shovel of dirt turned
30 over for Apache Plaza. She is glad to see this project and wants it to go ahead.
31 Dana Erickson, 3320 Croft Drive N.E.,voiced his support for the project. He moved to St.
Anthony 3 years ago and couldn't believe how much Apache had changed since he was a child.
3 He is glad the project is going forward and hopes that everyone feels the same as he does.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 13
1 Doug Jones, 2505 Silver Lane N.E., questioned the change to the ground lease for First Bank.
2 He inquired as to the changes in traffic flow.
3 Mr. Cavanaugh reported that the only changes to the ground lease for First Bank is the addition
4 of a small area which will provide additional stacking room for the drive up facilities. Based on
5 the studies completed by Knox and CUB, there should be no changes in the traffic pattern due to
6 the project.
7 Mr. Jones questioned the location of entrances for Knox and CUB Foods. He asked if there was
8 an entrance to Knox from Stinson Blvd. He also asked into what area the proposed outdoor
9 storage areas will be draining.
10 Mr. Cavanaugh reported that there is an entrance to Knox from 39th Avenue. The traffic from
11 37th Avenue and Stinson can use that entrance. The proposed drainage system was designed so
12 that the outdoor storage areas would drain into the ponds.
13 Mr. Jones asked if there was a possibility that there could be an entrance to CUB from the
14 Stinson side of the mall. He encouraged the developer, CUB Foods, Knox Lumber and the
Planning Commission.to maintain access to the mall from both sides, as it is very important to
move the traffic through the center. He believes this will increase the value of the out buildings
17 located there.
18 Mr. Narlock responded that there was access to the mall from the Stinson side by using the main
19 service road located on that side of the mall.
20 Robert Meyer, 3000 N.E. 33rd Avenue, a 14 year resident of St. Anthony, has used Apache Plaza
21 for many years and has seen it go down hill as many others have. Right now he does his
22 shopping 11 miles away and he drives 17 miles to buy his lumber and other things. He feels that
23 if we have CUB and Knox here, it will be a tremendous addition to the community. He feels that
24 St. Anthony really needs the project or there will be nothing here. He stated that something has
25 to be put in there but he questions if this addition will really help the remaining mall area since
26 there will be no direct access to the mall from the 2 stores.
27 Mr. Cavanaugh responded that the main mall at Apache Plaza does about$10,000,000 per year
28 in retail sales. CUB and Knox will generate between $65-70,000,000 in retail sales per year.
29 This will improve the retail base and there will be more traffic than there has ever been. SAV
30 Liquor Warehouse will be relocating into the mall and Herbergers will possibly be expanding. In
31 the final analysis, we will have 10,400 square feet of vacancy which will be attractive to new
32 tenants now that we will have CUB and Knox in the mall.
John Calguire, 3436 Silver Lane, stated that he is also in favor of the proposal. He feels that
34 more lives will be affected positively than negatively and that is the bottom line in this issue.
35
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 14
1 Lucille Calguire, 3436 Silver Lane, stated that she casts her vote vigorously and excitedly for this
2 project. She questioned the people who are opposed to the project as to what they do want to do
3 with Apache if this project doesn't go through. St. Anthony is a neighbor to the City of
4 Roseville, which allots more land to parks than any other City in the State of Minnesota. This is
5 possible because they have a lot of retailers who pay their taxes for them. We don't have that in
6 St. Anthony. We in St. Anthony spend money just like everybody else,we want to spend our
7 money here.
8 Ted Holsten, 3213 Townview Ave. N.E., a 27 year resident of St. Anthony, sees an opportunity
9 to enhance and vitalize the community surrounding Apache and at the same time greatly reduce
10 the impact on water quality of the run-off from the present situation. This seems to him to be a
11 win-win situation.
12 Ken Johnson, owner of Hardee's restaurant for 24 years, stated that when he first came here,
13 Apache was in it's "hey-day". He has seen it just go down and crash. He employs approximately
14 50-60 teenagers. He wants to see the project go and thinks it is super for the City of St. Anthony.
15 Paul Haik, 701 4th Avenue South#500, questioned Dennis Cavanaugh regarding the receivership
�6 with Apache Plaza.
17 Mr. Cavanaugh explained that he had an agreement with the bank to have a signed purchase
18 agreement with CUB Foods by March 31, 1994. That did not occur. As a result, the bank had
19 several options. At this point in time, the bank has elected to appoint a receiver. This simply
20 means that all the money goes through a receivership. C. G. Rein is still directly involved in all
21 negotiations with CUB and Knox.
22 Blake Szurek, 3408 Roosevelt Street N.E., stated that he agrees wholeheartedly with most of the
23 comments he has heard. He feels there is a lot of energy behind this proposal and would like to
24 see that energy be extended into other areas around Apache such as the New Market, which will
25 be closing and the SAV Liquor store building. He wondered if there are community uses that
26 this set of buildings could be used for or will they be used commercially. He stated he would
27 like to see decisions made quickly as to what we can do with the other properties.
28 Mr. Cavanaugh responded that he is exploring all options. The building is situated behind the
29 CUB building and is not highly visible, so C. G. Rein is exploring options other than retail use at
30 this time.
31 John Madden, 3701 Foss Road, stated that he is in favor of the project for several reasons. He
32 was a member of the Economic Redevelopment Task Force that was formed in the Fall of 1993
by the City Council, in response to the concerns that property values either had declined or
would decline in the future unless the community became actively involved in development or
35 redevelopment of under-utilized property within the City. After 9 months of study, the
36 committee's number one priority was Apache Plaza. St. Anthony's commercial tax base is
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 15
1 deteriorating. The Apache Medical Center Building was carried on the tax books at $1,300,000.
2 It sold a year ago for$750,000. The difference in that tax base goes to the residents. Apache
3 Plaza has had their valuation reduced a couple of times and the residential people have to make
4 that up also. This project is expected to provide 400 jobs in the 2 stores with approximately half
5 of those jobs available for high school and college students. It will improve some of the .
6 environmental concerns, such as the storm water flowing into Silver Lake. Without this project,
7 there may be no holding ponds. He believes that any delay in recommending passage of the
8 request before the Planning Commission tonight, will seriously jeopardize the project. He hopes
9 that the Planning Commission will send a strong message to the City Council by unanimously
10 endorsing this proposal tonight.
11 Joe Welle, Representative of the St. Anthony Chamber of Commerce, reported that the Board of
12 Directors voted unanimously to support the CUB/Knox project. He reported that the Chamber
13 feels that there are numerous benefits resulting from the project. The project will bring in new
14 jobs, increase home values, and bring in some excellent new business citizens. The Chamber is
15 looking forward to having them involved in the Chamber of Commerce and the community. The
16 Chamber feels the project will bring excellent shopping in a close proximity and looks forward to
17 working with CUB and Knox.
aClark Tomason, owner of Apache Watch and Jewelry, thanked C. G. Rein for keeping retail in
19 Apache Plaza. He stated that.if this project does not go through all that will be left at Apache is
20 Herbergers and the bar. He stated that it is hard to make it as a retailer in the mall now. He
21 hopes the people in St. Antony realize what potential they have for the future and keep what they
22 have now.
23 Diane Schroeder, 3900 Chandler Drive, asked if there were plans to install accessible doors in the
24 new stores and also if the bowling alley or the restrooms would be made handicap accessible.
25 She also inquired as to the entrance into the parking lot on 39th Avenue. She wondered if there
26 could be a provision for sidewalk placement at this entrance as there is a lot of pedestrian traffic
27 in this area and especially now that the traffic will be increasing.
28 Mr. Cavanaugh stated that there are no current plans for a sidewalk in this area but that it was
29 something that could be looked into.
3.0 Donna Gorski, St. Anthony resident, commented that she and her husband are in favor of the
31 project. She realizes that lumber and groceries come in on trucks and was wondering what the
32 increase in traffic would be and what routes the trucks would be taking. She asked what affect
33 this will have on the roads and if there are plans to widen the roads. She pointed out that there is
34 a school and a nursing home located in the immediate area on 37th Avenue. She also inquired if
3 there would be a new stoplight installed at the Silver Lake Road access point.
is
36 Mr. Narlock responded that CUB Foods receives deliveries 24 hours per day. There is a lot of
37 volume that goes through this type of store, so there will in fact, be truck traffic 24 hours per day.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• November 15, 1994
Page 16
1 He stated that there is adequate access onto the site. The main route used for the trucks will most
2 likely be 35W to Cty. Rd. D. He stated that he was not aware of any proposed new stoplights in
3 the area.
4 An unidentified resident added that County Road D and Silver Lake Road are both county roads
5 and they are designed to handle the heavier loads brought in by semi-trucks and the increased
6 traffic.
7 An unidentified resident reiterated that the traffic site at 39th Avenue is difficult. When people
8 are getting off the bus between 3:30 p.m. and 5:30 p.m., itis very.congested. He stated that
9 traffic on the north end of Apache Mall is only able to exit to go southbound. He asked if there
10 were plans to reconstruct this exit.
11 Mr. Cavanaugh responded that there are five points of ingress and egress at Apache Plaza. He
12 stated that if, after the project is completed there are problems, there will be modifications made
13 to the roadway system.
14 Mr. Anderson, Wendhurst Avenue, commented that he is very excited about CUB and Knox
45 coming in to the mall. He asked when the project will be starting and when completion is to be
6 expected.
17 Mr.Narlock responded that they intend to start the CUB project in the Spring of 1995 and be
18 completed in the Fall of 1995.
19 Mr. Hehr responded that they also hope to start construction of the Knox store in the Spring of
20 1995 and be opened for business in the Fall of 1995.
21 Bill Carr, St. Anthony resident, stated that at the Homeowners Association meeting, the group
22 voted unanimously to support the project. Their fear is that if the project isn't approved, Apache
23 Plaza will go "down the tube". However, they feel that their lake is also going "down the tube".
24 They feel that this is their one last chance to save the lake. The way the plans are now, they do
25 not meet anybody's specifications for good water management purposes. He stated he is firmly
26 convinced that a compromise can be reached. The Village has been working on behalf of Silver
27 Lake for several years and helped them when they dealtwith Wexford Heights. A really good
28 solution was reached there primarily because the Salvation Army Camp which owned the land,
29 had the lake utmost in it's mind also. They feel they have to get C. G. Rein and the Village to
30 think of the lake as a "treasure" also and do the best that they can. He reported this is what they
31 are working for. They would like a compromise that will keep Apache a viable force in the
32 community and yet make the best possible solution for the water run-off into the lake.
Dave Greenwood, Co-owner of Auto-Trac, stated that they are in favor of the project. It will
34 produce more traffic and give their business a higher profile. He stated that he lives in South
35 Minneapolis, near Minnehaha Mall,which was in the same situation as Apache. They opened up
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 17
1 a CUB Foods in the mall and very shortly after,the mall began getting bigger and business has
2 come back. He advised that the Minnehaha Mall utilizes a City bus which re-routes through the
3 parking lot and drops people off at the store. This bypasses any traffic problems of people trying
4 to run across the street.
5 Chair Gondorchin closed the public hearing at 8:39 P.M.
6 Motion by Commissioner Makowske, second by Thompson to recommend Council approval of
7 the lot split as presented by Mr. Dennis Cavanaugh, C. G. Rein Co., into four sections as follows:
8 the first lot for SuperValu/CUB consisting of approximately 390,000 square feet,the second lot
9 for Knox/Payless Cashway Lumber Store consisting of approximately 445,000 square feet, the
10 third lot would be what is left of the mall consisting of approximately 943,000 square feet, and
11 the fourth lot would be for First Bank and consisting of approximately 55,000 square feet,
12 contingent on a title review by the City Attorney, as well as any easements that,may be necessary
13 for the platting process which will be taken care of with the City Council.
14 Motion carried unanimously.
�5 Motion by Commissioner Bergstrom, second by Commissioner Makowske to recommend
6 Council approval of the setback variances for the CUB redevelopment, specifically the 15 foot
17 setback variance on the north end of the CUB property. The hardships were found for the
18 following reasons: 1. With the 60 foot Uniform Building Code normal separation,the property
19 cannot be put to reasonable use without this variance. 2. The circumstances are not created by
20 the owner of the property. 3. This will not alter the essential character of the locality. 4.
21 Economic considerations alone are not the basis of the hardship. Also this variance will improve
22 the traffic flow as traffic will go around the buildings rather than in between the buildings.
23 Motion carried unanimously.
24 Motion by Commissioner Bergstrom, second by Commissioner Makowske to recommend
25 Council approval of the setback variances for the Knox redevelopment, specifically the 15 foot
26 setback variance on the South portion of the Knox property. The hardships were found for the
27 following reasons: 1. With the 60 foot Uniform Building Code normal separation, the property
28 cannot be put to reasonable use without this variance. 2. The circumstances are not created by
29 the owner of the property. 3. This will not alter the essential character of the locality. 4.
30 Economic considerations alone are not the basis of the hardship. Also, this variance will
31 improve traffic flow, as traffic will go around the buildings rather than in between the buildings.
32 Motion carried unanimously.
Motion by Commissioner Bergstrom, second by Commissioner Thompson to recommend
34 Council approval of the conditional use permit for Knox Lumber conditioned that all lumber
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• November 15, 1994
Page 18
1 products will be under roofs,the 15 foot block wall with screening be provided, and there will be
2 lighting on the outside of the structures directed downward.
3 Motion carried unanimously.
4 Chair Gondorchin urged the petitioners to attend the City Council meeting on November 22,
5 1994, for final commitment of their lot split,variance and conditional use permit requests.
6 Chair Gondorchin closed this portion of the meeting at 8:49 P.M.
7 VI. ITEMS RELATING TO APACHE REDEVELOPMENT.
8 A. Review Comprehensive Sign Package for CUB Foods and Knox Lumber.
9 City Manager Morison reported that due to the fact that this is a shopping center, C. G. Rein,
10 CUB Foods and Knox have submitted a sign package under the comprehensive sign package
11 ordinance provisions. By submitting a comprehensive sign package, exceptions to the
12 regulations of the sign ordinances may be permitted. The purpose of handling it this way is to
13 recognize that because of the size of the mall, and the two new stores,the size of the signs will be
4 . larger than allowed by ordinance. This gives the Planning Commission and the City Council the
W ability to make exceptions to the sign ordinance and offer some flexibility.
16 Mr. Cavanaugh reported that Apache Plaza and the Apache Plaza pylon sign were both built in
17 1961. Since 2 new stores are moving into the mall, it is time to update the pylon sign. He
18 presented an exhibit of the proposed pylon sign. The proposed sign will be 414 square feet per
19 side and 42 feet tall. The existing pylon sign is 440 square feet per side and 40 foot tall. In
20 addition to that, CUB will have a ground sign which will be 15 feet high and 9 foot by 12 foot
21 per side. Herbergers is located in the rear of the building and due to this,they have requested
22 that they have a sign on the north end of the center. The sign they are requesting is a ground sign
23 which would be 8 feet high with a 4 foot by 8 foot sign face. The new pylon sign would be in
24 the current pylon sign location. The CUB Foods ground sign is just off the south entrance to
25 Apache Plaza. At some point in time, there is a small site that C. G. Rein intends to develop that
26 would typically be used as a fast-food restaurant. Typically, uses like this prefer a ground sign,
27 so at this point in time, C. G. Rein is requesting approval of a ground sign that is approximately 8
28 foot tall and has a sign face of 4 foot by 8 foot. This is the overall signage plan for perimeter
29 signs.
30 Narlock explained that CUB Foods is proposing signage in three basic areas. The first is the
31 ground sign near the right-of-way of Silver Lake Road on the south entrance to the store. This
32 sign is to encourage people to use that entrance when they do shop at CUB. The other signage
33 would be located along the front of the store. The square footage of these signs is as follows:
WThe first sign, the main sign, located at the entrance of the store is 266 square feet. There is also
35 a 24-Hour Savings sign that CUB would like to have (on the opposite side of that canopy)that is
36 145 square feet. The Pharmacy sign is 100 square feet. On the backside of the building, CUB
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• November 15, 1994
Page 19
1 would like to have a sign included in the comprehensive sign package. This sign is to encourage
2 traffic that is coming from 39th Avenue and to let them know that CUB Foods is located here.
3 They could then use the drive that is located along the south end of the CUB lot. The square
4 footage on that sign is 230 square feet. As far as any other signage, there would be one along the
5 driveway,the two locations on the building, the front and back, and one also on the pylon sign
6 that Mr. Cavanaugh presented.
7 Chair Gondorchin inquired as to how many pylon signs were to be included in this package.
8 Mr. Narlock responded that there will only be one pylon sign that will be located where the
9 existing pylon sign stands. CUB would also propose one ground sign in the right-of-way, right
10 in front of the Tires Plus Store.
11 Mr. Hehr explained that the only signage that Knox would request would be on the front of the
12 building, which would show the Knox logo on the south end of the building which is
13 approximately 368 square feet in size. Above the drive-through area into the lumber yard, Knox
14 is proposing a sign that is approximately 120 square feet. The only other signs that are visible
15 would be on the inside of the product area, not visible from.the street, which are mainly
16 directional type signs. He stated that Knox is asking for approval of the pylon sign.
17 Chair Gondorchin related that this is a development on a scale that St. Anthony has not seen in
18 some time. He stated this plan is representative of the corporate signage that is going on for
19 entities such as a Knox and a CUB Food Store.
20 Commissioner Faust explained that when the Planning Commission worked on the
21 comprehensive sign package ordinance,this was exactly what they were trying to accomplish.
22 Apache Plaza is bringing the Planning Commission a total comprehensive sign package for the
23 mall. The intent of the ordinance was to be flexible,to give the major anchors of the shopping
24 center the flexibility they would need.
25 Commissioner Makowske asked if Exhibit E, which was received in the packet tonight,was an
26 actual part of the comprehensive sign package.
27 Mr. Cavanaugh responded that when the project is completed,there will be approximately 1500
28 linear feet of shopping center facade left upon which signs could be placed. Exhibit E, included
29 in the packet tonight, pertains to that part of the shopping center. In response to Commissioner
30 Makowske, he assured that there was provision for other tenants.
31 All Planning Commission members expressed approval of the comprehensive sign package
2 presented by CUB Foods, Knox Lumber and C. G. Rein Co.
33 Jim McNulty, St. Anthony resident, stated that he is "for" the sign package because you don't get
34 a project like this and then try to keep it a secret.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
• November 15, 1994
Page 20
1 Al Rogers, St. Anthony resident, asked if there would be any signs facing Stinson.
2 Mr. Cavanaugh reported that they did not own any property on Stinson. The only place available
3 to put a pylon is 250 feet off Stinson and he did not think it would be visible from that distance.
4 Dr. Carr, St. Anthony resident, asked it anything could be done with the curbing in the parking
5 lot. Mr. Cavanaugh explained that the curbings are there for a reason,to direct traffic.
6 Ron Rasmussen, Tires Plus Store Apache Plaza, asked if there would be provisions made on the
7 pylon for any of the existing stores in the mall. He wondered if it was possible to build the pylon
8 bigger so that everyone who wanted to be listed on it could be.
9 Mr. Cavanaugh stated that their is still room on the pylon for one tenant. Typically,the space on
10 the pylon is based on square footage of the tenants. The center currently has 40 tenants and there
11 could not be space for all of the tenants on the pylon.
12 Pat Tomason,Apache Watch and Jewelry, asked if there would be a listing of all the tenants on
13 the outside wall of the mall.
04 Mr. Cavanaugh stated that this was something the center was trying to achieve.
15 B. Review Drainage Plan for CUB Foods and Knox Lumber.
16 Dennis Palmer, Barr Engineering,presented the proposed drainage plan for CUB Foods and
17 Knox Lumber. Barr Engineering was hired by C. G. Rein to do the site development as far the
18 water quality and the run-off issues. At the time they were hired, they were told by C G. Rein,
19 that there was a strong interest on the part of the City and the Watershed District regarding the
20 run-off and the quality of the run-off into Silver Lake. Barr Engineering met early with members
21 of the City staff and the Watershed District to identify a series of regional as well as site specific
22 issues,that might have to do with addressing water quality problems. At that point in time,
23 dealing with these problems on a regional basis was almost impossible. So C. G. Rein's only
24 choice was to deal with these issues on a site specific basis. The main objective was to get as
25 much run-off as possible into the ponds. The areas to the south, by the tire store, through CUB
26 store, could be captured by installing two ponds. Run-off could be captured from the Knox store
27 and building by installing one pond. The area from the tire store down through the Bank is very
28 difficult to capture because the existing storm sewers that would have to be incorporated into
29 those ponds, are below the elevation that the ponds can be installed. Also,ponds in this area
30 would have a serious impact on the availability of parking for CUB,the mall and for the Bank
31 area. Barr then had interaction with the Rice Creek Watershed District and the City to find what
32 would be appropriate with them. The final proposal calls for three sediment and water quality
improvement ponds. The ponds were designed and were in accordance with the requirements of
34 the Watershed District at the time they were designed and the permit application was submitted.
3.5 The permit application was submitted in 1993. Since that time,this proposal has been approved
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 21
1 by the Rice Creek Watershed District but has now been tabled because of a petition for an EAW
2 and the resolution of the issues involved there.
3 Commissioner Faust asked what portion of the run-off would be captured in those three ponds.
4 Mr. Palmer estimated that approximately 60%of the total site is captured in ponds. The portion
5 that is not captured in the ponds is the run-off of the roof and a portion of the parking lot which
6 goes directly into the storm sewer.
7 Mr. Cavanaugh clarified that approximately 79% of the parking lot was captured in the 3
8 drainage ponds.
9 Bill Zawislak, St. Anthony resident, asked where the water was going now.
10 Mr. Palmer explained that at the present time all the water runs down into the storm sewer on
11 Silver Lake Road which runs north and eventually discharges into the southeast corner of Silver
12 Lake. Then when the pressure in the storm sewer goes down,the water flows backwards and
13 goes down Silver Lane. With the proposed drainage plan, the water will still go there but it is
temporarily detained in the detention ponds, where the sediments are captured and there are
provisions to skim off floating debris. These procedures will remove 40%of the phosphorous in
16 the run-off water that flows from the site.
17 Paul Haik, Attorney representing the Silver Lake Homeowners Association, stated that everyone
18 in the Association is very supportive of the project and would like to see it go forward. He stated
19 that the petition is filed with the Environmental Quality Board, a State agency that is specifically
20 responsible for supervising and coordinating projects that impact the environment. A petition
21 was filed with them, asking them to assess the impacts of this project. He explained that the
22 process is very quick. The Environmental Quality Board will designate either the City or the
23 Watershed District to decide if an assessment needs to be done. This decision has to be made
24 within 15 days. We are well into the 15 days and expect someone to be addressing that soon.
25 The only thing specifically asked for in the petition, is that a public meeting be held, so there is a
26 specific place where people can come and hear more concretely the issues that the Association
27 wants to be raised. He stated that they are requesting this because it is a long term issue that
28 won't be revisited for many years.
29 Commissioner Makowske asked if there was anything beyond an Environmental Assessment
30 Worksheet(EAW) which has been proposed in the petition.
31 Mr. Haik explained that there are two basic parts. The assessment is a seven page worksheet
6 with 40 to 50 standard questions. It is meant to give an idea of the impacts. He presented the
Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, (MPCA), Best Management Practices on How to Handle
34 Storm Water. What the Association is asking is "do the Watershed requirements implement
35 these standards?" It is the Association's viewpoint that the best management practices
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 22
1 recommended by the MPCA are feasible and are a prudent alternative to the requirements that
2 Barr Engineering is abiding by. There is a significant difference in what the MPCA recommends
3 and what the Watershed District is requiring.
4 Commissioner Bergstrom inquired as to the timeliness of the Environmental Quality Board
5 (EQB). He also asked how long it would take to do the EAW, if that were required.
6 Mr. Haik stated that the local government unit that will be making the decision whether or not to
7 perform an assessment, has 15 days to make that decision. He was not sure how long it would
8 take to go through the EQB, but stated that he felt they were usually very prompt:
9 Mr. Palmer explained that assuming the responsible agency moves forward diligently,that
10 responsible agency being either the City or the Watershed District, and they were able to fill the
11 EAW out within a week or two, and submitted it, a notice of it's availability is then published in
12 the State Registrar. It then begins a 30 day review period. If there is substantial public response,
13 this review period can be extended by 15 days. The responsible agency, again the City or the
14 Watershed District, needs to respond in writing to all comments received within 7-15 days.
15 There are then findings by the responsible government unit as to whether or not an
Environmental Impact Statement is required. This would be required if they found, for any
reason,that there was substantial and irreversible environmental impacts that required a more
18 detailed analysis. This statement would then have to be published in the State Registrar. He
19 stated that if all goes well, the process could be completed within 90 days.
20 An unidentified resident asked if the petition can be withdrawn.
21 Mr. Haik stated that the petition can be withdrawn. He proposed that another alternative would
22 be for substantial compliance with what the MPCA requires. Another alternative is for the
23 Watershed District to finance the necessary improvements which could be designed by Barr
24 Engineering.
25 Mayor Ranallo expressed his support for the project and the lake but reiterated that there are only
26 so many things that can be done. He feels that what the City has done thus far, is about all they
27 can do with the money they have available. He stated that the Watershed District has made it
28 clear that they will not be putting any money into this project. He stated that there appears to be
29 no options with the petition involved. Time is of the essence in this project and CUB Foods and
30 Knox would like to get started on the project. Also, Apache needs to move the tenants to the
31 other side of the building so they can begin demolition. He expressed concern that 90 days may
32 be too long to wait. He related a commitment from C. G. Rein Co., that when more construction
33 was done in that area, the drainage would again be addressed and more changes could possibly
34 be made at that time.
0
35 Mr. Haik stated that the association realizes that the City has made enormous efforts. He said
36 they are only looking for what is feasible and prudent.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 23
1 Diane Schroeder, St. Anthony resident, asked specifically what the Home Owners Association
2 wanted done.
3 Mr. Haik responded that they are only looking for what the MPCA recommends.
4 Commissioner Faust stated that he lives on the lake and he is not in support of the petition. He
5 reported that he has seen some improvements in the quality of the water because he has worked
6 on various issues of run-off water quality, the redesign of Silver Lake Road, etc. He questioned
7 if this petition was being used as a form of legal intimidation. He stated that he believes the
8 Apache project is for the betterment of the entire community. He explained that the City and
9 also other parties involved have gone way beyond the requirement in good faith.
10 Kirk.Larson, St. Anthony resident, stated that he has a daughter in the school district. He sees
11 the benefits of this project as two-fold. The first benefit being to the City. The second being that
12 the school district will benefit as this project will bring more kids into the area because more
13 people will want to live here. He reiterated that collecting 79% of the storm water is very
14 efficient and better than not making any improvements at all. He urged the parties to
compromise. He stated that this project would be good for the City, the school board and our
16 kids, who are our future.
17 Mr. Cavanaugh explained that C. G. Rein has compromised several times with the storm water
18 management issue. The first offer was to spend $75,000 but the City did not accept this offer.
19 They then offered$125,000 but that offer was not accepted. They are now up to $250,000. He
20 stated that this is very frustrating as there is a project here that is ready to go. A 90 day delay
21 could kill this project. He stated that he has offered and is still willing to sit down with the
22 neighbors and try to resolve the issues.
23 Mr. Haik stated that the Association is very willing to sit down at the table but that the principle
24 party in this issue is Rice Creek Watershed District. They need to be involved in this process.
25 They are the ones who will be issuing the permit. He stated that.if Rice Creek Watershed will sit
26 down and negotiate, the Silver Lake Homeowners Association will be there. If not, there is no
27 benefit in negotiating.
28
29 Commissioner Thompson stated that he has been a resident of St. Anthony for many years. He
30 lives near Apache and welcomes any traffic that comes with the project. He sees a great
31 improvement with the three ponds.
32 Dr. Carr reported that Ramsey County did an analysis of the 26 lakes in the county and rated
33 them. Silver Lake was rated 24 out of 26. He stated that he still feels that a compromise can be
reached. He would like to see the lake improve to be the best it can be. He reiterated that all the
4t roof and the east parking lot run-off is going right into the lake. He suggested that if the ponds
36 could be made bigger, possibly some of the sediment would dilute out. He stated that Rice Creek
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 24
1 Watershed had suggested a low-flow diversion down Silver Lake Road and Silver Lane. He
2 stated that if these 2 things were done, he would be satisfied with the plan.
3 Mayor Ranallo reminded that they had tried to enlarge that pond but there is not enough
4 property. CUB and Knox have stated that if that pond is enlarged, they will not have enough
5 room for parking.
6 Regarding the roof run-off going directly into the storm sewer, Mr. Palmer clarified that a study
7 has shown the water quality of the roof run-off is higher than the present water quality in Silver
8 Lake. Because of this,the water is not being directed into the ponds.
9 Bill Mackey, CUB Foods, reported that when they presented their plan,they indicated that the
10 property as configured and with the proposed ponds, created a tight parking situation, but one
11 that CUB could operate with. He stated that if the size of the pond is increased, it will diminish
12 the parking area to an unacceptable level. He reported that CUB also has plans to expand this
13 store in the future. When they expand,they will diminish their parking even further.
14 Jim McNulty, St. Anthony resident, stated that he has lived in St. Anthony for many years and
Silver Lake has always had discoloration in the water. .He reminded that the Village is cutting
4W the run-off from 20%to 5%, which is a big difference. He asked what the other entities involved
17 were doing for the lake. He questioned why the development was being held up because the
18 Village can't afford the last 5%due to the exorbitant cost.
19 Jeanette Dick, St. Anthony resident, asked how close the drainage pond on the south is to New
20 Market store. She suggested that the New Market building be demolished. There could then be
21 more parking and a larger pond could be built there. Mr. Cavanaugh reported that this was not
22 economically feasible.
23 Mary McCrossan, St. Anthony resident, asked if a compromise would even be possible with the
24 petition in place. She suggested that the first step may be to remove the petition.
25 Mr. Haik stated that the petition does not need to be removed so that the entities involved can
26 talk. They can sit down and talk at any time.
27 William Soth, City Attorney,responded that it is possible for the parties to get together and talk
28 but that Rice Creek Watershed District has elected not to do this. He suggested that the
29 Watershed District would very much like to see the City, Apache Plaza and the residents present
30 a compromise. The Watershed is being forced to make a very difficult decision in this situation.
31 An unidentified resident asked how many people had signed the petition.
0
32 Commissioner Faust reported that there are 53 homes on the lake, a church and the Salvation
33 Army Camp. Only 23 of the households on the lake signed the petition.
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
November 15, 1994
Page 25
1 Commissioner Makowske asked if the money were available, what kind of an improvement
2 could be obtained.
3 Mr. Palmer reported that Barr Engineer ran a water-quality model on the lake for the conditions
4 as designed and the maximum amount of ponding which is approximately eight times the
5 proposed pondage. If eight times the pond volume were installed, it would cost another
6 $300,000 and would only remove an additional 2%of total phosphorous load to the lake.
7 Diane Schroeder, St.Anthony resident, asked if 35 people can stop this project, what can the rest
8 of us who are in support of the project do.
9 Chair Gondorchin stated that the community has demonstrated it's support for this project. He
10 stated that it is time for the homeowners on the lake to think again and look at what they are
11 doing to the community. He stated his opinion that if this project does not go through, we will
12 not only have a dying lake but also a dying community.
13 Commissioner Bergstrom suggested that supportive community members contact Greg Downing
14 at the EQB and express their opinions on this matter.
aRichard Gueslind, St. Anthony resident, asked if it would be possible for the Council to get
16 together and issue a petition for the Home Owners Association to drop their petition.
17 City Attorney Soth stated that this could be done but there is no provision in the law for that
18 being given any effect. He reiterated that the residents have demonstrated their support for this
19 project at the meeting tonight.
20 An unidentified resident stated that with Apache the way it exists, we have 20% of our run-off
21 going into Silver Lake and with this project it will be reduced to 5%which is a 75%reduction.
22 If the project does not go through there will be a 0%reduction. Why risk this, to get a 2%
23 improvement which is not economically feasible. He feels the homeowners on Silver Lake are
24 taking a great risk by jeopardizing this project.
25 Chair Gondorchin stated that he sees nothing but solid support of the project in terms of the
26 development. He stated it is a very good demonstration to the representatives from CUB Foods
27 and Knox Lumber. He extended thanks to the citizens, organizations, and business community
28 of St. Anthony for endorsing this development. He thanked Jerry Narlock and the other CUB
29 representatives for their time, patience, and presentations. He also thanked Richard Hehr,
30 representing Knox/Payless Cashway, who is bringing a new concept to this area. He also
31 thanked the individuals who brought their concerns here tonight, as these concerns do need to be
4 heard.
33 Commissioner Bergstrom stated that he will obtain the telephone number for Greg Downing at
34 the EQB and leave it with the City staff tomorrow for anyone who is interested in calling.
s
Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes
„ November 15, 1994
Page 26
1 VIL ADJOURNMENT.
2 Motion by Commissioner Makowske, second by Commissioner Thompson to adjourn the
3 meeting at 9:55 P.M.
4 Motion carried unanimously.
5 Respectfully submitted,
6 Lorri Kopischke
7 TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial