HomeMy WebLinkAboutPL PACKET 11301987 Meeting Sheet
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BOX: ZS
Folder. PL PACKETS 1987
Documents PL PACKET 11301987
C= TY OF SZ' e ANTHONY
P L ANN T N G C OMM 2 S S T ON AGENDA
NOV EMH E R 30 , 1- 987
7 = 30 P - Mv
1 . Call to Order.
Z . Roll Call.
3 . Minutes.
a. • September 15 , 1987 .
b. November 4 , 1987 (Special Meeting) .
C. November 17 , 1987 .
4 : Designate Commission Representative to the Council Meeting
on December 8 , 1987 .
• 5 . Public Hearings.
a. 7 : 30 P.M. - Mickey D' s Sign Request- (Additional
sign plans included in packet. )
b. 7 : 50 P.M. - Rapid Oil Change Sign Request.
6 . New Business.
a. American Monarch' s Concept Review.
7 . Adjournment .
J
• C = TY O FS T e ANTHONY
P L ANN 2 N G C OMM= S S= ON M 1 NUT E S
S E P T EMB ER 1 5 a -1- 987
1 The meeting was opened at 7 : 35 P.M. with the Pledge of Allegiance
2 led by Chair Ffanzese.
3 Present for roll call: London, Wirigard, Franzese , Werenicz,
4 Madden.
I
5 Absent: Wagner , Hansen.
6 Also present: David Childs , City Manager.
7 AUGUST 18 , 1987 PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
8 Motion by Madden, seconded by Wingard to approve with the following
9 changes:
10 Page 1 , line 1 :. Indicate the meeting was opened with the
11 Pledge of Allegiance..
12 Page 5 , line 3 : Substitute "Foss Road" . for ",Chandler Drive. "
*3 Motion carried unanimously.
14 LONDON TO REPRESENT COMMISSION AT SEPTEMBER 22ND COUNCIL MEETING
15 Steve London agreed to report the minutes of that evening' s meeting
16 at the above.
17 PUBLIC HEARINGS-
18 Commission Recommends. - Council Not Amend Ordinance for Second
19 Caretaker Unit in Mini-Warehouse Facility
20 The Commission . had postponed . action on the above request at their
21 August 18th .meetng after. the applicants had indicated they could.
22 not be present for the public hearing on the .above request that
23 evening.
24 Application: from Ken Solie of Village. Properties , 2916 Pentagon
25 Drive for an. amendment of the City Zoning Ordinance
26 as it relates to mini-warehouse facilities in a
27 Light Industrial District to allow two rather than
2g one caretaker units in such facilities.
29 Staff report: Childs reiterated the advice he had given the Com-
30 mission. -in his August 14th memorandum that the hear-
0,1 ing purpose was only for them to make recommenda-
32 tions to the Council related to changing -the Ordin-
33 ance to allow two rather than one caretaking units
34 in a mini-warehouse facility;
35
1 added that if the Ordinance is so amended, another
2 hearing would be scheduled to consider the condi-
3 . . -tional use permit which could then be issued for the • I
4 second unit;
5 pointed out ' that there was only one mini-warehouse
6 facility in St. Anthony and that at one time before
7 he came to the• City, one caretaking unit had been
8 specifically approved for that facility;
9 . read aloud the current language in the Ordinance 'as
10 included in his memorandum;
11 reported._ the property had been sold by Bernard Blan-
12 ske about a year ago to Ken Solie and Jerry Cowan,
13 who make up the Village Properties partnership who,
14 are now asking permission to convert the unit which
15 had been originally designed for office space on
16 the second floor' to an additional dwelling unit -for
17 an assistant caretaker;
18 reported the applicants had agreed to work with
19 Larry, . .Hamer to. bring the unit up to code for that
20 purpose if the Ordinance is amended and they are.
21 granted a conditional use permit to do that;
22 said he didn' t think the City had been aware that
23 Mr. Blanske had been usina the office space for
24 living quarters whenever he was in -town; and
25 reiterated that only the general public had been
26 notified of the hearing on the Ordinance amendment
27 by notice in the August 5th Bulletin;
28 said if a hearing is scheduled on a conditional use--
29 permit, the general public as well as all property
30 owners within 350 -feet-. of the facility would again
31 be notified by legal publication and mailings ' to
32 those property owners;
33 told the Chair he. would guess having more than .one
34 caretaker unit in this type of facility would be
35 unusual and, in .fact, said he perceived many mini-
36 warehouses , because they are fenced in and locked up
37 for a certain number of hours each day, donot have.
38 caretakers living on the premises.
39 Proponent: _.. Ken Solie, - 2817 Silver Lane, disagreed with this
40 presumption, saying he believed most mini-storage
41 facilities have at least one caretaker unit and the
42 majority of them are rather heavily fenced in, . .
43 which is not the case in St. Anthony where his
2
•1 facility is open .to the street and has . a ratifier.
2 general access to -it; ;1
3 reported the building has to be unlocked at 6 : 00
4 A.M. and locked up again at 10 : 00 P.M. on d day-to-
5 day basis and the caretakers have to be available 24
6 hours a day, seven days a week to rent the vacant
7 units, take rental payments and provide- security for
8 the units ; I
i
9 said it is very difficult for the couple who live in 1
10 the caretaker unit to be available for all those
11 hours and he was proposing the office space be made
12 available for living quarters for an assistant care-
13 taker who could provide the same services on week-
14 ends when the regular caretakers would not be avail-
15 able;
16 perceived the 250 square foot office space could be
17 brought up ' to code and converted to an efficiency
18 apartment with very little work if his firm decides
19 to use the space for this purpose;
20 reported his firm' s assumption that, since Mr.
21 Blanske was using the office for living quarters,
6 2 there would be no objections to continuing that use,
3 had led to Village Properties ' renting the unit to
24 the woman .who would be vacating the premises at the
25 end of the month now that Mr. Hamer had informed
26 them this was a non-conforming use of the unit;
27 confirmed that the current renter had not served as
28 caretaker;
29 During his discussion of his proposal with the Commissioners , Mr.
30 Solie:
31 *told Commissioner London this facility differed greatly .from
32 other types of mini-storage facilities which are heavily
33 fenced in and docked from the general public during all times
34 except the normal business hours when the facility would be
35 open for tenant access and collection of rents and renting of
36 vacant units;
37 *said because the same level of protection is not provided for
38 the St. Anthony facility, he perceived there was a need to
39 have a "caretaker/watch person? on the site- at all times to
40 provide security for the property, those who use the storage
41 units, and the neighborhood;
42 *indicated the assistant caretaker would be compensated by
�3 free rent in space already available which, he believed,
3
1 after making the initial outlay to convert the office to a •
2 dwelling, would be much cheaper in the long run than for
i
3 his firm to spend $6 ,000 to partially fence the facility in
4
5 and provide an expensive automatic locking system for the
6 entire facility;
7 '*conceded it would be possible to fence in the accesses to the
8 units which face the back of the property, but it would not
9 be practical to fence in the two units which face 39th Avenue
10 N.E. because those are only garage units which exit onto the
11 street; j
12 *told the Chair there are 180 units in the facility, and alth-
13 ough he wasn' t really certain, believed the office was open
14 from 9 : 00 A.M. to 6 : 00 P.M. , seven days a week or perhaps
15 only from noon to 6 : 00 P.M. on Saturdays;
16 *told Commissioner Werenicz his firm had experienced no
17 security problems like break ins at all since they acquired
18 the property;
19 *conceded it was only for the convenience of the caretaker
20 couple that he was requesting a second caretaker unit;
21 *indicated to Commissioner 'Wingard that although parking
22 spaces- are not specifically designated as such, there is
23 ... space for 50 cars to be parked around the site somewhere
24 or another;
25 *also said the entrances to the inside units are kept locked;
26 *told Commissioner London he believed it would be impractical
27 to pay someone to sit in the office for three hours doing
28 nothing and they, to respond from another location for 15 min-
29 utes where his firm could offer free rent in an efficiency
30 apartment to have that person available when the caretaker
31 couple was gone;
32 *reiterated that his firm did not consider free rent in a
33 space they already had available, plus the initial outlay to
34 bring the unit up to code, could be considered to have .a
35 significant impact on the operation costs for the facility
36 when compared to the $6 , 000 it would cost to fence in only a
37 portion of the property and what it would cost to provide
38 security for the units which could not be' fenced in.
39 Mr. Childs said he understood there had been considerable discus-
40 sion of fencing in the property when Mr. Blanske had come in to
41 request the second story and the Commission and Council had not
42 been too excited about thatprospect because of the visual ap-
43 pearance. Commissioner Madden agreed with that statement, saying •
4
•1 it had been perceived that .without fencing it would -be possible for
2 the•1Ipolice to drive around the -building, - as they still do, once or
3 twice a night.
4 Chair Franzese reported that when Commissioners Hansen and Wagner `
5 had called to say they would not be present that evening, they had
6 both indicated they would not -be in favor of the request because
7 they perceived no real need for the second caretaker unit.
8 No other persons were present to provide input to the discussion
9 and the Chair closed the hearing at 7 : 53 P.M. for- Commission
10 consideration of a recommendation to the Council.
11 Werenicz indicated he would have a hard time justifying such a
12 drastic step as amending the Ordinance based on one re-
13 quest for an isolated situation where the applicants
14 perceive the need for security for a facility for which
15 there have never been any security problems.
16 London agreed the amendment was pretty much uncalled for because
17 the request appeared to represent an economic rather than
18 a real need by the applicants ;
19 said he could think of other ways of providing security
20 than to allow a- iive-in unit for that purpose.
*1 Wingard agreed he perceived this was just an easy way for the
22 owners to rent out the unit once they had to conform to .
23 Larry Hamer ' s order to evict the renter who was in there;
24 but indicated he wasn' t really bothered about the unit
25 being rented which seemed O.K. to him.
26 Franzese said she had also recognized this was an economic issue
27 for the applicants ;
28 perceived there were telephone or recording systems which
29 could be used when the caretakers were not available ;
30 pointed out that the facility does have regular hours of
31 operation posted which made it hard for her to differ-
32 entiate between this business ' needs and those of other
33 businesses;
34 said she thought any one who was interested could get in
35 touch with the caretakers during the hours which have.
36 been posted or could leave a note for' the caretakers to
37 get in touch with them by telephone when they are there.
38
39 Madden said he lived in the same block and had perceived the
40 triplex next door seemed to require more police - super-
41 vision than this building;
•
5
iJ
1'. however-j) he- said because there - had always been someone •
2 -' living in this unit and because this was a neighborhood
3 which 'had residential as well as light industrial uses,
4 - he would certainly- have- no objections to having someone
5 live on the second floor of this building;
6 reported he stores his parents ' belongings in one of the
7 units and has experienced problems with getting the care-
8 takers..on the phone himself because "it is impossible
9 for them to be on duty 24 hours a day. " ;
10 thought having another person or two around the premises
11 might make it easier for the tenants to contact the
12 operators of the facility.
13 Mr. Childs said Mr. Blanske spent a good deal of time in Arizona
14 and he certainly hadn' t known anything about his living in that
15 unit. The Manager said he couldn' t see where this could be
16 considered a "grandfathered" situation because the unit had been
17 designed for use as an office and not a dwelling.
18 Mr. Solie agreed that the unit. had been so designed, but his firm
19 had assumed it could be continued to be used as a living space
20 because that was what Mr. Blanske was using the unit for when they
21 bought the property. He said he thought Mr. Hamer had found out •
22 Village Properties was renting the space when he had come to
23 inspect the property when Mr. Cowan was there. '
24 Chair Franzese said she perceived there had been no problems with
25 having someone live in the unit, but she perceived there was a
26 conflict in land use and she wondered if the City would be es-
27 tablishing a precedent for such a conflict in other areas if they
28 allowed this particular use to remain in a light industrial zoned
29 property. She was concerned that the City would be getting
30 requests from property owners. in the industrial park to rent out
31 unused portions of their buildings to persons who worked there.
32 She perceived the City might be getting into an area it might not
33 wish to get into at this time.
34 The following response was made to her statements:
35 Madden perceived this to be a different situation altogether
36 because the uses are already mixed in this particular
37 neighborhood.
38 Childs said he didn ' t want to confuse the issue but wanted to
39 point out that in many small towns and even along Central
40 Avenue, it was regular practice to have living quarters
41 over stores and. businesses ;
6
0�1 indicated no such provision had been .made in St. An-
'2 thony''s Ordinance, because the community., grew from the
3 start -as. a residential suburb; .
4 said some municipal ordinances are "cumulative" to allow
5 any use which is permitted in a residential district _ to
6 Abe ,used in a commercial zone and anything which is
7 allowed in a lower classification to be allowed in a
8 light industrial zoned area;
9 indicated St. Anthony' s is generally considered to be an
10 "exclusive" Ordinance, which allows only one exclusive
11 use in each different zoning category,. but is not com-
12 pletely exclusive, because it allows single family homes
13 or duplexes to be built in areas zoned for single family
14 homes and then imposes exclusive zoning for commercial
15 and light industrial;
16 said he perceived no major problems had been created by
17 allowing such a mix as long as issues like parking,
18 access, and codes had been addressed;
19 said he wasn' t certain it would be wrong to allow an
20 unused. 1 ,000 square feet of space in the back of a ware-
21 house to be used for living space for someone who would
2 keep an eye on the property for the owner as long as
3 there was adequate parking and access and the space was
24 brought up to code for that purpose;
25 told Chair Franzese he perceived that whether that was a
26 good or bad thing was a value judgment she would have to
27 make in terms of how she viewed her community and what
L8 land uses she thought were right or wrong in different
29 zoning districts.
30 Werenicz indicated he personally perceived that because Mr. Solie
31 had reported having less vacancies in his property than
32 was the norm, there had been little hardship demonstrated
33 to justify a drastic step like changing the Zoning
34 Ordinance to improve that business.
35 When the Chair said she perceived the commission was being re-
36 quested to change the Zoning Ordinance to provide a second resi-
37 dence for a caretaker and yet -she wasn' t hearing that it was.
38 really going to be for a caretaker, Mr. Solie told her that the
39 only purpose for remodeling the unit would be for use as a second
40 caretaker residence and that his firm would not be renting to the
41 general public now that they had been made aware that doing so
42 would pose a problem for the Ordinance.
43 Commissioner Wingard .commented that he understood the Commission
•44 was only being asked to change the Ordinance to allow two rather
7
I than the' one caretaker- residence. al"ready allowed in this particular.
2 .. mini-warehouse , which is the only 'facility of this type in St.. •
3' Anthony: .- He indicated it- was therefore hard - for -him to .conceive - E
4 how this -would open the City - to - a- deluge of similar requests for
5 other. types of buildings . 'Commissioner Werenicz responded -that he i
6.* agreed with the Chair that the precedent would be established for
7 other types of businesses to ask for similar treatment which would
8 favor their own business .
9 Commissioner Madden pointed out -that this particular Ordinance had
10 apparently been on the books for at least nine years. Mr. Childs
11 had confirmed that, in the six years he -had been with the City, no
12 business had come in to him to ask for a caretaker residence in
13 their own building because the precedent for , doing that had been
14 established with the mini-warehouse facility.
15 The Manager reported he was aware of instances where the code had
16 been enforced and the property owners had not asked to have the
17 Ordinance changed. One of these had been when the proprietor of
18 Craig & Company had rented space in his basement but made the
19 family leave after the 'City had told him the Ordinance didn' t
20 permit that. Mr. Childs said staff had also been keeping a close
21 eye on the Northgate Office Park to see unit owners didn' t try to
22 use the space above their offices , which have water and plumbing
23 fixtures. None of these owners had yet asked. for an Ordinance
24 change, he added.
25 Commissioner Werenicz quoted the suggestion Mr . Childs had made in
26 his memorandum that "the major question the Commissioner had to
27 address with the mini-warehouse request was whether a facility this
28small really needs two on-site resident caretakers" and reiterated
29 that it was his own position that the applicant had failed to
30 demonstrate there was "a real need" for the second residence in
31 this. building.
32 Mr. Solie conceded that the caretaker would not normally let
33 tenants into their units after hours, but persisted in saying this
34 is a 7 day, 16 hour operation, which demanded the presence of
35 someone on the site at all times. He told Commissioner London
36 there is plenty of work to keep that person occupied because with
37 about a 5% turnover every week, the caretaker keeps busy showing
38 the units to new tenants , signing leases and performing other
39 general duties like maintaining the units and collecting the rents
40 and locking and unlocking the units each day. The Chair told him
41 she found those duties to be analogous to the responsibilities of
42 an apartment caretaker .
43 Mr. Childs drew the Commission' s attention to the fact that,
44 although the caretaker unit in the mini-warehouse was a condition-
45 ally permitted use in the current Ordinance, in the event the
46 facility was burned down- or otherwise destroyed, the owners would
•
8
• 1 have: to return to the .C '>ty for ..a reviewal of the conditions placed.
2 on the permit eventho.ugY;i the City could not .completely - deny the
3 use itself .
4 He also advised that any conditions the Commission might want to
5 place on the permit itself related to parking, . access, etc. . would
6 have to be added after the Ordinance passes and they get the
7 request back for a hearing on the conditional use permit itself.
8 Commission Action
9 Motion by Wingard, seconded by Madden to recommend the Council
10 grant the request from Ken Solie of Village Properties for an
11 amendment of the language in Section 1.0 , Subdivision 3 , Item 7 of
12 the Zoning Ordinance related to a permitted conditional use in a
13 Light Industrial zoning classification which would allow not more
14 than two dwelling units of not more than 600 square feet and one
15 bedroom for use as a residence for a caretaker for a mini-warehouse
16 facility as a conditional use, where the current Ordinance only
17 allows one caretaking dwelling unit.
18 In recommending the request be granted, the Commission finds that
19 staff had reported receiving no .calls either for or against
20 changing the Ordinance and there was no one present at the
21 Commission hearing who expressed opposition to -it.
•2 Voting on the motion:
23 Aye: Wingard, Madden
24 Nay: Franzese, London, Werenicz
25 Motion not carried.
26 Commissioner Werenicz advised Mr. Solie that it was quite possible
27 the Council might find differently than the commission when his
28 request is presented to them the following Tuesday and it is their
29 decision which really counts because the Commission is only an
30 advisory body.
31 Commission Split on American Amusement Arcades Request to O erate
32 Amusement Arcade at Apache Plaza
33 At 8 : 17 P.M. , the Chairopened the public hearing on the above by
34 reading the notice of , the hearing which had been published in the
35 September 2nd, Bulletin and mailed to all propetty owners of record
36 within 350 feet of the subject property. No one present reported
37 failure to receive. the notice or objected to its content.
38 Application: from American Amusement Arcades dba Picadilly Circus
39 8.50 Decatur Avenue North,, Golden Valley, MN for a
460 Conditional Use Permit to allow operation of an
9
1 : Amusement Arcade at Apache .Plaza in the space form- •
2 erly occupied by the St.: Antr,ony off-sale liquor
3 store. The proposal would• utilize the, 34 amusement
4 device licenses now held by the Apache owners.
5 Documentation: Application accompanied by August 31st letter from
6 Daniel Heilicher of American Amusement Arcades
7 Company;
8 City Manager ' s September 11th memo giving staff
9 reaction to the request and the issues which are
10 involved;
11 sketch of proposed layout, of store.
12 Staff, report: Childs reiterated some of the above information,
13 including the -fact that the current City Ordinance
14 limits the number of- machines to a maximum of 106
15 amusement devices licenses which was the number in
16 effect when the Council established the recreation-
17 al ordinance and still held in St. Anthony;
18 suggested the Commission could recommend a limit on
19 devices this business could have as the licenses
20 became available;
21 indicated no food or beverages would be served in •
22 the establishment;
23
24 reiterated that this type of activity is a condi-
25 tionally permitted use for which the Commission can
26 recommend certain conditions which it feels are
27 necessary or desirable.
28
29 reported staff had received no calls or letters
30 against this request.
31 Mr. Childs reported Police Chief Hickerson had been contacted about
32 the request and he paraphrased the Chief ' s memorandum where he
33 indicated he:
34 *would have some concerns about this operation being located
35 right adjacent to the City municipal on-sale liquor store,
36 for which the Manager perceived the concerns would probably
37 be- the same if the opposite were true and the -bar was being
38 started next to an amusement arcade;
39 *based his concerns on how well the establishment would be
40 operated because if it is well managed, the Chief thought
41 problems with loitering in the hallways and those kinds of .
42 problems would be minimized;
10
*was concerned there migh_t 'be problems with liquor procure.
'inept ( Childs said 'this .would not be the same as for a
3 liquor off-sale establishment) ', j
4 *thought the extended hours might increase the possibility of
5 disturbances- and fights which could add to police calls
6 during their peak call period and could only be prevented by
7 excellent- management and strict supervision
,- -
8 *perceived it would only be with this control that drug trans-
9 actions and other type of criminal activities could be
10 avoided.
11 The Manager reported those had been the kind of concerns which had.
12 prompted the annual review of the amusement device licenses for the
13 Fun Center ' s operation in the St. Anthony Shopping Center, whose
14 proprietor often appears for those reviewal sessions. Mr. Childs
15 indicated the Police Department considers that to be a well run
16 operation and have reported no major problems down there, although
17 the arcade is also located within 200 or 300 feet of both the on
18 and off sale municipal liquor stores . He added that these facilit
19 ies probably generated more problems than the Fun Center.
20 The City Manager answered the questions posed by the Commission by:
*telling Chair Franzese he considered it to be more unusual
It for a municipality to have a limited number of amusement
23 devices licenses available than it was for a city the size
24 of St. Anthony to have two amusement arcades;
25 *saying he thought it may be unusual for a city' s ordinance
26 to -require these activities to be handled as conditionally
27 permitted uses, perceiving the applicants may not, have had to
28 seek these type of permits in the other cities they serve
29 because amusement arcades are permitted commercial uses in
30 those municipalities ;
31 *recalling it had been the possibility of a 24 hour billiard
32 hall with a beer license located in St. Anthony which was one
33 of the concerns which had initiated this zoning classifica-
34 tion for this use;
35 *indicating the opposition which was expressed against the
36 Fun Center at those hearings might have been magnified as an
37 example of what might be coming if the billiard hall went in.
38 Proponents: Daniel Heilicher, Norman Pink, and Gene Winstead of
39 American Amusement Arcades 'Company
40 Dennis Cavanaugh, President of C. G. Rein Company
11
1 'Heilicher . assured Chair Franzese there was still a II
2 lot of -interest: in -video games by both, kids and I
3 adults ;
4 said.-adults ' interest in pool had .heightened;
5 reported most of his arcades had come under condi-
6 tional use permits and his firm had never been
7 turned down;
8 invited the Commissioners to check with any of the
9 Police Departments in any of those locations from
10 Brooklyn Park to Robbinsdale , and they would find
11 they had no problems because those activities are
12 under firm control;
13 they have a full time attendant on duty at all
14 times and permit no drinking, - smoking or eating on
15 the premises ;
16 said there are no tables and no place to sit down
17 except at the sit down games and no loitering is
18 allowed.
19 Werenicz- Casts Doubts on Applicant ' s Claims
20
21 The Commissioner, who said he had served on the Hennepin County
22 Sheriff ' s Department for 14 years, said he had contacted all eight
23 communities where Amusement Arcade operates and found there is much
24 disagreement with Mr . Heilicher ' s perceptions that his establish-
25 ments have been trouble free . The Commissioner stated he had been
26 told that to alleviate the problem in some of the establishments,
27 the Police Departments have had to assign a full time police
28 officer in those facilities on Friday and Saturday evenings for
29 whatever hours the establishment is open.
30 Mr. Heilicher ' s response was that his company had requested the
31 police presence in the Brooklyn Park and Maplewood arcades , which
32 are 22 , 000 and 15 , 000 square -feet and in the Har Mar operation
33 because the mall had requested that because of the heavy theater
34 traffic. He told Mr . Childs his company pays to have the police
35 officers on duty and suggested Commissioner werenicz should talk to
36 the officers who are involved to get a better perspective on the
37 problems .
38 When Commissioner werenicz told the arcade representative he had
39 found it had been necessary to have police on duty wherever the
40 establishments had extended hours. and their St. Anthony request was
41 for the ' same extended hours , Mr. Heilicher told him if there is a
42 need for a police officer in this establishment, they would hire
43 one.
12
The -Commissorier' added that he had, also ,learned the establishments
had to hire the police because 'there had- been a- real neecfl for them.
3 He said - the Maplewood . police had told him. that -prior to hiring a
4 police officer., : there had been numerous problems in the parking lot
5 which they attributed to the young crowd going .into/coming out of
6 the Amusement Arcade establishment in that mall. He said .the
7 police reported -getting called at least twice a week prior to their
8 off duty officer working in the establishment involving numerous
9 problems with 'juveniles consuming in public; there were fights in
10 the parking .lot; and consuming on the lot, which the police
11 attributed to arcade customers, most of whom appeared to be
12 transient .type kids. Commissioner Werenicz also stated that the
13 establishment- was drawing from all over and the police were having
14 all kinds of problems.
15 Mr . Heilicher said they had a police officer on duty at Maplewood
16 from the first day they opened their establishment and a further
17 check would show there were many of the same incidents long before
18 the arcade opened. These are the type of problems all big malls
19 experience, he contended. Commissioner Werenicz told him the
20 type of traffic his business would increase to the mall would
21 generate more of these types of problems.
22 Mr . Heilicher told Commissioner Werenicz the vacant store next to
23 the bar had been the only space the Apache management had offered
them for their arcade. Commissioner Werenicz told him he, for
one, was dead set against that location especially with the
26 extended hours beyond the mall' s normal closing. He also perceived
27 having three pool tables would most - likely attract the adult
28 drinking crowd from the bar next door who could be expected to
29 start to hang around the arcade to play pool which the -bar doesn' t
30 have and to gamble over the pool games , all next to the juveniles
31 who would be playing the video games. The Commissioner said he
32 thought this couldn' t help but lead to all kinds of problems .
33 Mr. Heilicher told him they have pool tables in Maplewood, Har Mar
34 and Brooklyn Park and don' t experience any of the problems the
35 Commissioner was anticipating. He said his people watch the
36 players carefully to see there is no gambling, which is not
37 permitted in -the arcades. He told the Commissioner he might have
38 gotten some of his information from an officer in Maplewood who
39 doesn' t like children and had always given his establishment "a
40 bad rap. When he suggested the Commissioner talk to the police
41 officers who work in his establishments rather than someone on the
42 desk, Commissioner Werenicz indicated his conversations had been
43 with several of the chiefs , investigators , and patrol sergeants , in
44 the eight different departments where the arcades are located.
45 Problems With Crowds Attracted and Not With Arcade Company' s
46 Management
•
13
1 Commissioner. Werenic.z.. added that none of the above had faulted •
2 Arcade Amusement' s management. per se -and he .was told - "you do .run a
3, fine business" , but it ' s just. that. type of business which seems to
4 gather certain crowds and -. .the problems associated with those .
5 crowds.
6 :The Commissioner said to put the crowds of teenagers who would .be
7 attracted to, this type of .business and the problems associated -with
8 that right next to the older drinking crowdcould lead to nothing
9 but trouble. He asked how Mr. Heilicher was going to prevent the
10 younger customers from asking the. bar patrons to get liquor for
11 them from the off-sale store close by.
12 The arcade representative told him "kids are going to get liquor
13 if they want to no matter what" and he did not perceive this
14 establishment would be contributing any further to that problem.
15 Commissioner Werenicz told him he perceived the arcade would be
16 providing another source for them. Mr. Heilicher reiterated that
17 no other space had been available to them at Apache and said "if
18 you have a problem with Friday and Saturday nights and you want us
19 to close with the mall, we can accommodate that. "
20 When Commissioner Werenicz told him he perceived the three pool
21 tables would attract more of the long term "hanger outers" , Mr.
22 Heilicher disputed that assumption, saying that had not been a
23 problem in his other establishments and rather, they had senior
24 citizens coming in to play pool in the daytime and fathers and
25 sons have an increased interest in the game since the movie "The
26 Color of Money" had come out. " He said there had been a surge of
27 interest in the game and his place, which is not a bar, has
28 attracted a lot of people to come in and play in the arcades. He
29 perceived these places offered a good place for kids to come and
30 play pool under close supervision.
31 Chair Franzese said she would hate to have her three teenage
32 sons , who just love pool, go to this location, which is right next
33 to rhe bar, because they wouldn ' t be associating with only kids who
34 play the games but people who have been drinking from next door.
35 Mr . Heilicher said he couldn' t see why the bar patrons would want
36 to come in to play pool, but added if they do, they wouldn' t be
37 the only adults in the place because many young adults like to
38 play the more sophisticated games they have in their establish-
39 ments. He said his people maintain "complete control" and he was
40 certain there would be no problems for her boys.
41 The other proponents then spoke and answered questions as follows :
42 Cavanaugh told Commissioner Wingard all the other spots available
43 in Apache were too large for the arcade which only re-
44 quires about 1 , 800 square feet ;
14
said he had not seen -the proximity of - the bar as pos--
Ilk
ing a problem for them or they would not. have let them
3 have that space;
4 indicated the mall has 24 hour security themselves- and he
5 is certain the security people .would become very vigilant
6 to see that there is not a problem;
7 said the bowling alley has 14 video games in its arcade
8 downstairs and also sells 3 . 2 beer and typically the mall
9 has had no major problems with those customers except for
10 some instances where crowds coming out of the common mall
11 areas had broken some of the large mall windows;
12 Commissioner Werenicz told Mr. Cavanaugh most of. the vandalism and
13 fighting originated with the crowds who hang around the video games
14 that have been available to them in the bowling alley and who flow
15 out into the parking lots where the problems are. He told him this
16 indicates there are problems associated with these types of
17 businesses and this business would be no exception.
18 Cavanaugh said every major mall has problems in the parking lots at
19 night and he wasn' t sure they were connected specifically with
20 amusement arcades, restaurants , or whatever;
pointed out that this use is a permitted conditional use in the
City' s Ordinance, leading him to conclude the City couldn' t
23 completely reject the application, but could impose conditions on
24 it.
25 Childs agreed that was the way he read the City Ordinance and
26 indicated he perceived it also gave the City the right to impose
27 reasonable conditions on the permit, which the applicants might
28 or might not agree were reasonable;
29 told the Chair, C. G. Rein controls the 34 licenses this establish-
30 ment would be using, there are somewhere around 14 licenses the
31 bowling alley holds , the City liquor operation has half a dozen,
32 the run Center has about 30 and the rest are scattered around
33 town;
34 said 106 was the number of licenses that were in existence when the
35 City passed the Amusement Devices ordinance and the only way a
36 place can get a license is if one of the holders drops its license;
37 he confirmed that Ray Nelson is in line to receive the next
38 several licenses which become available ;
39 unless the City changes the Ordinance , the number of licenses
40 which will ever be available will not surpass 106 .
•
15
T Gene Winstead said he .was Operations Manager for American Amusement •
2 Arcades '
I
3 said he was also Vice . Chairman of the Bloomington Planning
4 Commission as . well , as the President of the Bloomington Crime .
5 Prevention Association and understood the City' s concerns about car
6 prowls and vandalism in parking lots;
7 said there "isn' t a shopping mall in the metropolitan area that
8 doesn' t experience the same type of problems;
9 indicated he didn' t know just how directly these activities were
10 connected to youth activities;
11 said his organization was not so naive as to believe none of the
12 "bad seeds" frequent their establishments or attempt to come in;
13 said they have spent time with managers to identify problems which
14 occur.
15 Werenicz agreed car prowling problems occur where there are large
16 numbers of cars parked in lots and said he perceived that to locate
17 this type of business near the area where large numbers of cars are
18 parked near the access to both the bowling alley and the bar
19 would just be adding a third source ' of congregation.
20 Winstead agreed there would be an older crowd frequenting the ;.
21 arcade later at night, but challenged the perception that problems
22 with 'the congregation could be directly connected to the arcade.
23 Werenicz responded to Mr. Winstead' s statement that in Bloomington
24 the number of car, parking problems in parking lots had been cut
25 down by the actions of business crime watch groups by saying he
26 had found through the surveys he had taken of the eight communities
27 where this business had establishments , that the number of instan-
28 ces had been cut down after either those arcades had hired off-duty
29 police or the hours of operation had been reduced to the hours the
30 mall was open;
31 said he had also noted the malls which had kept to the mall hours
32 didn' t seem to have pool tables in them.
33 Winstead pointed out that one of the reasons his company wanted
34 to have pool tables at this location had been because they needed
35 them to fill up the space which resulted from only 34 device
36 licenses being available to them;
37 added that there had been a great resurgence of interest for all
38 ages in pool the past few years ;
39 indicated the pool tables would be somewhat smaller than full scale
40 tables and would be easier for younger children to play. •
16
4
1 Norman Pink. : had been in St. Anthony when the licenses -were limited.
�3
2 f:
to 106 because. there: were . so many applications. or arcades in every
vacant store., .drug store , etc. - and the simplest ' way to control
4 that was rather than . to write an .ordinance defining them was to 4
5 limit the control of the arcades by licenses;
6 said his firm had 1 ; 500 square feet of empty space which could , ..
7 take from 45 to 50 video games to fill up and because there are
8 only 34 licenses available, they need pool tables ;
9 indicated if the City wanted to let .them have more licenses , they
10 wouldn' t need_ the pool tables;
11 reiterated that his company had hired the full time police officers j
12 who work in their Village North and Maplewood establishments the I
13 day their arcades opened up and it wasn' t something the municipals-
14 ties had made them do;
i
15 pointed out that the young people who have the mobility they have I
16 nowadays are going to go somewhere because the school system
17 doesn' t require the amount of study they did when he was young; 1
18 said in reference to parental supervision, he said he 'd rather have
. 19 his own kids in an arcade where there is good supervision where he
20 would be able to go and would be able to take that child and pick
21 him or her up rather than have that child say "I 'm going out with
�2 thekids and will be back at 10 o ' clock. " ;
23 said his company expects to close the arcade Monday through
24 Thursday at 9 : 30 P.M. or whatever time the shopping mall closes ;
25 indicated his company had found it would be advantageous to them
26 and also to the young people to give them a supervised place to be
27 up to 12 : 0.0 o 'clock on Friday and Saturday nights;
. 28 insisted they wouldn' t be looking for the crowd from the Apache
29 Wells bar and would like to have their mall door closed so the
30 only access from the bar to the arcade would be- through the outside
31 door;
32 said they would have to decide whether it was practical dollar and
33 cents wise to hire an off-duty policeman and other type of outside
34 supervision and if not monetarily feasible to have someone on duty
35 three hours every Friday and Saturday night, they would close
36 earlier on those nights ;
37 pointed out that in the bowling alley the arcade is in close
38 proximity to the beer counter and beer can be brought any place in
39 that room no matter who it is next to;
40 stated he believed it should be left to .the parents to decide
Al whether their children are in the arcade after 9 : 00 at night;
• 17
i
1 perceived= it- was up to the City to see .that the laws are upheld, •
2 `but neither they nor the. arcade managers should try to control ..
3 - the family situation;
4 told the Commission his company has been in the arcade business
5 since 1957 and most of the arcades around the country. are
6 patterned after their Southdale operation, which unfortunately had been,
7 replaced with an eye clinic the mall needed in the same space. f
8 Werenicz agreed there was no way the arcade management could keep
9 the bar customers from coming in to play pool and said that was why
10 he was suggesting another location would be better.
11 Pink said his firm had 20 years of experience running this type of
12 establishment and controlling the behavior of those who come in and '
13 they don' t need the type of customers, who aren' t in control of
14 themselves and would make them leave;
15 said American Amusement Arcades wouldn' t be staying open past 9 : 30
16 P.M. if that wasn' t practical because they wouldn' t want to
17 jeopardize their reputation and the other developments they have
18 because of a few customers which might. potentially ruin them.
19 Hearing Closed
20 The Chair closed the hearing at 8 : 57 P.M. for Commission considera- •
21 tion of a recommendation to the Council.
22 The following conversations ensued prior to and during ,the develop-
23 ment of a final recommendation:
24 Werenicz said he didn' t think it would be unreasonable to
25 require the arcade to be open only during mall hours
26 perceiving the precedent had already been set for
27 American Amusement Arcades in Eden Prairie, Ridge-
28 dale Terrace Mall, Har Mar and Northtown to close
29 when the malls close.
30 Cavanaugh pointed out that the Apache Mall is only open from
31 noon to 5 : 30 P.M. Sundays and closes at 5 : 30 P.M. on
32 Saturdays;
33 said he perceived those hours would be completely
34 unacceptable to the applicants;
35 pointed out that the City' s lease on the Apache
36 Wells is on a month-to-month basis so it would be
37 unwise to plan around them.
38 Heilicher said their arcades are all located in the interior
39 of those malls and there are no exits available for
40 them to use once the mall is closed;
18
said he, perceived it would be- somewhat discriminat-
2 ory, for "the,lCity •to limit his establishment' s hours
3 of operation or types of equipment they , used to
4 eliminate pool tables since similar restrictions had
5 never been placed on the Bowling. Alley, the re-
6 staurant or the .bar in the same mall;
7
8 indicated there would always_ be problems with kids
9 in parking lots whether they' re next to shopping
'10 centers , a McDonalds or a Burger King; I
- I
11 suggested staff check with the Brooklyn Park Police.
12 Chief ' and " see if he doesn' t tell them there were
13 just as many of the same type of problems in the
14 parking lots before the American Arcade ever went
15 into the mall;
16 told Commissioner Werenicz the 'reason some of his
17 other facilities didn' t have pool tables was because
18 they didn' t have room for them at those locations
19 where" they had all the other types of machines
20 they wanted.
21 Childs told the Chair the three pool tables would be coin
22 operated and represented 3 of the 34 licenses C. G.
�3 Rein is prepared to use for. this operation.
24 Cavanaugh reported it cost his company $50 a machine to hold :
25 the licenses until some merchant used them.
26 Franzese said she would like to see a condition imposed- on
27 the permit which would require supervision of the
28 establishment.
29 Heilicher told her on busy days his company has two
30 attendants onduty;
31 insisted his company' s track record for controlling
32 its customers had always been very good and the Com-
33 missioners should have no fears that the pool tables
34 or video games would not be well controlled;
35 suggested that since this is a conditional use per
36 mit the City should let American handle the arcade
37 the way they had requested and, if after a -year or
38 even less , there is a perception that there is
39 a problem "come directly tows and tell us you
40 don' t like the - way we ' re operating. "
41 London said he had to agree with Commissioner Werenicz that
42 the hours' of operation should be restricted and
•3 that there should be no pool tables;
19
1 said he personally felt these amusement- arcades were.
2 , nuisances because they made,nit difficult for parents I
3 to control their children;
4thought that since the . City can' t prevent them from
5 operating in the City, everything possible should be
6 done to make them as inoffensive as possible.
7 Madden commented that he must have had a ""misspent" youth
.8 because he had always enjoyed playing pool and per-
9 ceived if he were to take his grandson somewhere to
10 play pool, this establishment, where there would. be
11 no liquor, would be a better place to play than a
12 bar;
13 said he couldn' t see the harm in having pool games
14 in a game room and wondered if kids didn' t wager on
15 video games as well;
16 perceived pool had been denigrated and said he had
17 a lot more respect for pool than for video games
18 which he couldn' t stand at all.
19 Commission Action
20 Motion by Madden, seconded by Wingard to recommend the City Council
21 grant a conditional use permit to American Amusement Arcades dba •
22 Picadilly Circus to allow the operation of an Amusement Arcade at
23 Apache Plaza in the space formerly occupied by the St. Anthony
24 -off-sale liquor store and to utilize the 34 amusement devices for
25 which there are licenses available at that location.
26 The Commission further recommends the following conditions be
27 imposed on the permit:
28 *no food or beverages are to be served in the arcade;
29 *the number of amusement devices would be limited to 34 for
30 this establishment;
31 *the permit for this operation would have to be reviewed
32 annually with input from the Police Chief based on statistics
33 on the number and nature of calls his department has to make
34 to this establishment.
35 In recommending this permit be granted, the ," Planning Commission
36 finds staff had reported receiving no calls against the permit
37 prior to the Commission hearing and no one spoke against it during.- -
38 the hearing.
39 Before the vote was taken on the motion; the following amendments
40 were offered: •
20
I Motion by Wingard,- seconded by :London to amend the motion to limit-
2 the hours of:.operation f or.: the Amusement .Ar.cade- to the .: same hours
3 as Apache Plaza Mall.
. 4 Voting on the motion:
5 Aye: Wingard, London, Werenicz
6
7 Nay: Madden, - Franzese
8 Motion to amend carried.
9 Motion by. Madden, seconded by Franzese to amend the motion to allow
10 the arcade to stay open until 9 : 00 P.M. seven days a week.
11 Voting on the motion:
12 Aye: Madden, Franzese
13 Nay: Werenicz , Wingard; London
14 Motion not carried.
15 Motion by Werenicz , seconded by London to- amend the motion to allow _
16 no pool tables in the American Amusement Arcade.
107 Voting on the motion:
18 Aye: Werenicz , London
19 Nay: Madden, Franzese, Wingard
20 Motion not carried.
21
22 Voting on the amended motion:
23 Aye: Franzese, Wingard
24 Nay: Werenicz
25 Abstention: Madden, London
26 Amended motion carried.
27 Commission Indicates No Objection to Change in Nativity Church
28 Plans
29 Mr. Childs had distributed copies of the September 13th letter from
30 the Nativity Building Committee Chairman seeking approval for the
31 subst-itution of landscaping for fencing between the church' s
32 - property ands the property at � 2921 = 33rd avenue N..E. , which had
�3 been agreed to by both parties. The Manager indicated he would
21
1 report that. the :Commission members would not--be o osed. t
PP to having a • ,
2 landscaped: buffer between the properties- or: to revising the
3 screening ' p.lan .which - had been- approved November -2.6 , -1987 .
4 Manager Reports ' City . Has Picked the P. J. Gaughan Com any to-
5 Construct the Final Phases of the Kenzie Terrace Redevelopment
6 Project
7 Mr. Childs reported the above to the Commissioners and described
8 the project for which a Redevelopers Agreement is now being
9 negotiated with the contractor. He indicated the H.R.A. hopes to
10 approve the agreement at their October 13th meeting and gave :a
11 tentative timetable for getting the -project completed, which
12 included the ,negotiations 'with the land owner and meeting with .the
13 neighbors to address some of their concerns about the project.
14 Joint Council/School Board Meeting_ Gave Both Sides Better Under-
15 standing of the Parkview Issue
16 Commission members who had attended the September 9th meeting
17 agreed with the above assessment by the City Manager who said he
18 expected no. immediate decisions to be made.
19 Marks and Makowske Will Have Opponents and the Mayor Will Be
20 Unopposed for the November 3rd Election
21 Mr. Childs said Al Arens and Tom Gould had filed to run against the
22 -incumbents for seats on the Council.
23 Delays on Stonehouse Addition Discussed
24 Problems with getting the structural steel for the project were
25 part of the trouble, Mr . Childs said, but the contractor had also
26 been slow in getting shop drawings done as well . However, the
27 Manager indicated he had been assured the project would move right
28 along for the next 30 days .
29 ADJOURNMENT
30 Motion by Madden, seconded by London to adjourn the meeting at 9 : 55
31 P.M.
32 Motion carried unanimously..
33 Respectfully submitted,
34 Helen Crowe, Secretary
35 :cjk
36
37
?8
39
22
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i
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224-4117
o o 0 841 Grand Avenue
srcr+s a raoranoxs St.Paul.MN 55105
DAM ►v— 1 I-e N[YIL[C
P ROJCC T' _
ow�wM77 /
1 The meeting was opened at 7 : 30 P.M. with the Pledge of Allegiance led
0 by Chair Franzese .
3 Present for roll call: Wingard, Franzese , Werenicz .
4 Absent: London, Hansen, Wagner, Madden.
5 Also present: David Childs , City Manager.
6 LACK OF QUORUM PREVENTS OFFICIAL ACTION AND REQUIRES CONTINUANCE OF
7 HEARINGS
8 Mr . Childs reported learning that Commissioners Wagner and Hansen would
9 be out of town that evening; Commissioner London' s wife has pneumonia,
10 and Commissioner Madden would be unable to be present, too late to
1.1 cancel the meeting. He therefore recommended the Commissioners who 1
12 were present take testimony related to the two sign variance requests
13 for which hearings had been scheduled and advertised for that evening,
14 but defer action to a follow-up meeting where the required quorum of
15 Commissioners could be present to make an official recommendation to
16 the Council.
17 Commissioners were instructed to assume the continuance would be held
18 at 7 : 30 P.M. , Monday, November 30th, unless otherwise notified.
19 Since no official business could be conducted that night, Mr. Childs
�0 verified the designation of a Commission representative . to the November i
1 24th Council meeting would be unnecessary.
22 Wingard to Move From St. Anthony Before Continuance Date
23 The Commissioner indicated he had already sold his home on West Armour
24 Terrace and, depending on whether his loan goes through in time, said
25 he expected to move his family this weekend to their new home on Prior i
26 Lake which would be closer to his work now that the firm he works for
27 had transferred him to Egan. Commissioner Wingard said he therefore
28 assumed he would be ineligible to participate in the November 30th '
29 meeting.
30 Changes Suggested for September 15 , 1987 Commission Minutes
w recommended for approval at the next Commission
31 The following were pp
32 meeting:
33 Page 7 , line 37 : Substitute "was" for "wasn' t" at end of line.
34 Page 9 , line 1: Delete entire first line as repetitious .
35 Page 10 , lines Rewrite to read: "for which the Manager per-
36 36 & 37 : ceived the concerns would probably be the
37 same if the opposite were true. . . . "
38 Page 10 , line 39 : Delete "on" between "based" and "his concerns" .
39 Page 12 , line 21 : Substitute "Hennepin County Sheriff ' s" for
40 "Minneapolis Police" .
1
' I
1 ". � Page 12 , line 26 : Insert that between told and "to alle-
2 viate" .
3 Page 14 , line 9 : Delete "how he" after "Heilicher" .
4 Page 15 , line 14 : Substitute* "that" for "and" at beginning of
5 line.
6 Page 15 , line 34: Substitute "that" for "there" between
7 "licenses" and "were" .
8 Page 16 , line 16 : Insert "that" between "perceived" and "to
9 locate" .
10 Page 17 , line 5 : Insert "of" between . "control" and "the
11 arcades" .
12 Page 17 , line 35 : Substitute "they" for "said" before "would
13 close" .
14 Page 18 , line 6 : Insert "had between "unfortunately" and
15 "been" .
16 No further changes were suggested for the minutes of the Commission' s
17 special meeting held November 4th, which had already been revised to
18 reflect changes recommended during the Council ' s consideration,
19 November 10th.
20 PUBLIC HEARINGS
21 Commissioners Perceive Too Much Signage Requested for Mickey D' s
22 Restaurant •
23 Chair Franzese opened the hearing on the above at 7 : 45 P.M. , reiterat-
24 ing for the benefit of anyone who had come late that, although lack of
25 a quorum would prevent official action, testimony would be taken from
26 anyone who wanted to be heard that evening.
27 The notice of the hearing which the Chair read aloud, had been publis-
28 hed in the November 4th Bulletin and mailed to all property owners
29 of record within 250 feet of the subject property. No one present
30 reported failure to receive the notice or objected to its content
31 although a difference in interpretation of the petitioners ' application
32 evolved during the hearing.
33 Manager Points Out Discrepancies Between Notice and Materials Submitted
34 by the Applicant That Evening
35 Mr. Childs said he had not personally taken this application and had
36 based the wording of the notice on the drawings and - the sign company' s
37 October 30th letter attached to the application. After viewing the
38 drawing for an 8 foot X 8 foot "Mickey D" s" sign, Mr. Gow had
39 indicated would be replacing one side of copy on the existing "Mr.
40 Hobo" sign on the building, and hearing that the letters on the front
41 sign would only be 36 inches and 18 inches high, the Manager said he
42 had concluded the information in the notice might not have accurately
43 reflected the applicant ' s intent.
44 •
45
2
r�
1, Signage Still Too Excessive . for City Sign Ordinance
2 Further discussions with Michael Farrell, the new owner of the res-
3 taurant , and Mr. Gow indicated they wanted to keep all three signs ,
4 including the 64 square foot roof sign and the 32 square foot reader
5' board on the east side of the building.
6 As he had stated in his November 13th memorandum to the Commissioners ,
7 Mr . Childs reiterated that the sign ordinance only allowed one sign
8 per building with perhaps a' variance for a second sign for a corner
9 building, but the total sign surface area must not exceed what would
10 be allowed for one sign, which in this case would be two square feet of
11 signage per foot of frontage or approximately 100 square feet.
12 The Manager reported staff had received no calls either for or against
13 the proposal and would therefore recommend the restaurant be allowed to
14 have two signs with total sign surface to meet the sign ordinance
15 allowance or whatever the Commissioners decide on after hearing from
16 the applicants regarding the hardships , etc. which might be involved in
17 this particular request.
18 His recommendation prompted the following discussions:
19 Gow: defended the request for three signs , saying the restau-
�0 rant is located between two heavily travelled roadways
1 where identification from both sides is essential;
22 indicated it had been his understanding that the entrance
23 sign he had proposed had been approved for that area;
24 reported a single sided sign would be replacing the double
25 sided neon sign currently on top of the building;
26 when Commissioner werenicz pointed out the discrepancy
27 between the drawings for a 64 square foot sign he had dis-
28 tributed that evening and his October 30th application
29 letter which called for 27 feet of sign surface on one
30 side of the renovated roof sign, responded by saying he
31 had "different documents to reference that evening" .
32 Childs : insisted he had never personally approved 200 square feet
33 of sign surface for the entrance side;
34 Franzese: asked Mr . Gow why, if the previous restaurant had done so
35 poorly with the current large roof sign, he thought retain-
36 ing that sign was essential to the restaurant' s success .
37 Gow: , said his analysis of past businesses in that location had
38 to some degree attributed their failure to succeed to the
39 lack of identification which Mr. Farrell was attempting to
400 overcome with the proposed signage;
3
i added that the signage was intended to- let the community •
1? know that the restaurant was under� new -ownership and manage-
3 ment and was being completely renovated.
4 Franzese : questioned whether the roof top sign, which she assumed was
5 directed towards Highway 88 traffic , was really needed if the
6 major intent is to let the community know the new restaurant
7 is to be family oriented.
8 Wingard: acknowledged the absence of signage on the north and west .
9 sides where there are homes , but nevertheless, said he
10 wouldn' t want to "go overboard" on signage for a restaurant
11 located so close to a residential neighborhood.
12 Gow: indicated most of the signage was directed towards the high
13 traffic and not residential areas for that very reason.
14 Wingard: suggested the 64 square foot roof sign might fulfill that
15 purpose on the Highway 88 side, but there might not be a
16 need for 200 square feet of signage across the front of the
17 restaurant which is located on a 30 mile an hour street;
18 proposed that by reducing that sign size , the applicants
19 might be able to meet the ordinance restrictions.
20 Gow: persisted in his belief that the existing signage had not
21 provided adequate identification of the previous restaurant
22 with heavy traffic flowing from two different directions
23 which the new owner wanted to rectify with this proposal.
24 Werenicz : pointed out that the City might be willing to allow two
25 signs for a restaurant which fronts on two streets but
26 would have a hard time justifying a tripling of the total
27 sign surface allowed by the ordinance.
28 Gow: said he was glad the Commissioner recognized the need for
29 signs for two identification areas, but;
30 pointed out the difficulties the applicant was facing trying
31 to work with a sign which is tied into the building itself ;
32
33 indicated he perceived, that to derive any benefit from the
34 existing sign it would be important to provide- a sign like
35 the one he had provided to avoid creating an unattractive
36 appearance which would ''stick out" if the sign were not tied
37 in with the rest of the building.
38 Mr. Farrell said he had been in the restaurant business for quite a few
39 years after retiring from the military, having worked at the Sheraton
40 Park Hotel in St. Louis Park as well as several other restaurants in
41 the vicinity. He pointed out that the previous restaurant had done •
4
�1 nothing for the past ten years; had been a shame for the community
2 because of various illegal dealings conducted there; and had "hurt
3 rather than benefitted the community" . The applicant said he
4 perceived ' the signage he was requesting would help remove the stigma
5 attached to that business. He indicated the signage he was proposing
6 would be tastefully done and would not "stick out" or be' gaudy and had ,
been designed to consider the residential neighborhood adjacent to the
8 restaurant . Replacing the existing "ugly" sign on the roof with one
9 copy only on the side facing away from that neighborhood and planning
10 no signage on that side at all would achieve that purpose, Mr . Farrell
11 indicated.
12 The applicant said he considered signage one of the most important
13 parts of his business concluding that without signage the business
14 would continue to go down hill and would. never change from what it had
15 been. He indicated he considered the signage would be a big factor in
16 letting the community know there is an entirely new operation going
17 into that location and that the interior is being completely renovated
18 for a family type restaurant.
19 In reference to the removal of the sign altogether, the restaurant
20 owner said he doubted that could be done without ruining the renova-
21 tions he had already made inside the building. Mr. Farrell
22 said he needed the exposure he would get from both the front and roof
23 sign being easily seen from the top of the St. Anthony Boulevard
0 4 bridge and Highway 88 and, although the reader board was intended to
5 benefit the business , the applicant said he also perceived it would let
6 the community know what was going on in his business.
27 The applicant. concluded by indicating he considered his situation to be
28 "unique" in that his signage was intended to benefit rather than hurt
29 the community because it would be bringing the right. kind of people
30 into the area rather than the type who had patronized the "Mr. Hobo"
31 restaurant.
32 When Mr . Farrell asked for Commission questions, Chair Franzese told
33 him she perceived a difference in values might be involved because she
34 found his objectives to have a nice, quiet, family type restaurant to
35 be in conflict with the amount of signage he was asking for the
36 business . the Chair said her own value judgement would be that a
37 "gaudy" roof sign wouldn' t fit in with or would do nothing to enhance
38 the renovation going on farther down on. Kenzie Terrace where an attempt
39 is being made to upgrade the appearance of that whole area.
40 Mr. Farrell reiterated how important he perceived signage was and said
41 he would ask for more if he could afford to put- up more because he did
42 not think the signage he was requesting would be out of proportion to
43 that utilized by other restaurants or diners he has seen.
44 However, he concluded that the drawing the Commissioners had been
45 provided made the front sign look a lot bigger than it actually would
�6 be with the letters the size he was proposing.
5
I The other Commissioners -had the following to say about. the proposal
2 Wingard: , stated that- it would be his recommendation to allow the
3 business to retain the pylon sign on the roof as, proposed .
4 with a 64 square foot copy and to design the - front sign to
5 encompass only an area which would bring the signage to
6 into conformance with the total sign surface . allowed by
7 the ordinance ;
8 perceived, however, that the advertising on the side facing
9 Highway 88 would be better done by newspaper or some other
10 - form of advertising.
11 Werenicz : concurred with Commissioner Wingard' s suggestion that the
12 reader board be eliminated altogether;
13 advised that he would never vote for that signage which .he
14 personally considered to be "very tacky" and "of little
15 value" when it came to attracting business to any type of
16 establishment;
17 agreed that well placed newspaper ads would do more towards
18 informing the community that a well run, family oriented,
19 restaurant would be opening in that location than the
20 "tremendously large and gaudy" signs illustrated in the
21 drawings the sign -company had provided the Commissioners
22 that evening;
23 noting the discrepancies between the drawings and the origi-
24 nal application letter , suggested the applicant and his sign
25 company should sit down with staff to ascertain just what .
26 constitutes acceptable signage for St. Anthony, so the Com-
27 missioners would know what they are talking about at the next
28 meeting.
29 Welcome Extended to Restaurant Owner
30 Chair Franzese apologized for not extending a welcome to the community
31 to Mr . Farrell at the beginning of the hearing, telling him St. Anthony
32 does need a new family type restaurant and that she perceived his best
33 advertising would more likely come from word of mouth of his customers.
34 Hearing Tentatively Continued to November 30th
35 No residents were present to provide further.- input to the discussion
36 and at 8 : 10 P.M. the Chair announced the continuance of the hearing
37 November 30th based on a quorum of Commissioners being able to attend
38 that evening. The applicant was assured that he would be notified if
39 there was any change in the meeting date.
•
6
m-
.1 At 8 : 12 P.M,,, the Chair opened the -public hearing on the request from
2 Rapid Oil Change, , 3701 Silver Lake .Road;. for a ' variance to -the City
• 3 Sign Ordinance to allow the business. .to retain the- -pylon sign permitted
4 only to gasi,,tations now that all .gas pumps have been removed from -the
5 property: No one present reported failure' to receive or objected- to
6 the content of the notice of the hearing which had been published in
.7 the November 4th Bulletin or mailed to all property owners of record
8 within 250 feet of the subject property. -
9 Proponents Argue Condemnation Led to. Loss--of GasBusiness
10 Mark Gilbertson and Steve Moldenhauer, Project and Regional Managers
11 for Rapid Oil Change argued that:
12 *the reason Rapid Oil had gone out of the gas business had basi-
13 cally -been because the condemnation and widening of 37th Avenue
14 had physically removed one pump island and created so much con-
15 gestion around the remaining island it became unusable for them
16 for a long period of time;
17 *although the gas business admittedly was a second business for
18 Rapid Oil, it had been a profitable one which was lost to them
19 when the company decided not to pay for replacing the deteriorat-
20 ing tanks , which might have been done, if four pumps had remained
21 on the property;
22 *the City by its own action in 1984 had "grandfathered in" the
03 the pylon sign when it granted the variances for the existing
4 square footage on that building;
25 *the City' s sign ordinance allowing only gas stations to have
26 pylon signs might be out-of-date today when most gas stations
27 have dropped auto repair services substituting the sale of food
28 and other merchandise to make a profit;
29 :*because the loss of land along 37th Avenue caused a stacking
30 problem in front of the building, Rapid Oil was now forced to
31 change the access to the rear which necessitated a remodeling of
32 the building.
33 Mr. Gilbertson reported they already had a building permit for the
34 installation of double doors in the rear as well as for fixing up the
35 exterior, doing some painting, and updating the existing signage to the
36 company' s new image. He anticipated having to shut the business down
37 completely for three weeks .in February during which time, Mr. Gil-
38 bertson said, without signage the public might get the idea Rapid Oil
39 had gone out of business and customers might be_. lost.
40 The Project Manager assured Commissioner Werenicz there were no plans
41 to level the structure or to exceed the 128 square feet of signage the
42 City had allowed them in 1984 . Mr. Gilbertson added that studies
• 7
f
f
1 have shown that most businesses operate at only 80o..capacity for a
2 year after being shut down for remodeling.
3 In response -to-'questions about whether the variance met the conditions
4 established in , the petition, Mr. Gilbertson -indicated he couldn't see
5 how a sign. which had been in that location for so long could now be
6 considered -to be a detriment to the community.
7 The. Rapid Oil spokesman then repeated the suggestion he had previously
8 made to staff , that a ten gallon container of gas might be kept in the
9 back room for sale to customers to meet the gas station criteria.
10 Childs Reiterates Staff Recommendation for Denial
11 In his November 13th memorandum to the Commissioners, the City Manager
12 had indicated he .perceived Rapid Oil, should be required to remove the
13 pylon sign because:
14 *they no longer had gas pumps;
15 *a second sign had been all by variance because this was
16 a corner business and that had .caused the business to exceed by
17 24 square feet what the ordinance would normally permit;
18 *next door businesses , Auto Traac and Paul Revere, have much less
19 signage.
20 In response to the proponents ' arguments for retention of the pylon •
21 sign, Mr . Childs added that:
22 *he couldn' t see where having to remove leaky gas pumps could be
23 considered to be. a viable hardship on which another variance
24 could be based;
25 *this business already had more visibility than its two neighbors
26 to the west;
27 *the current sign ordinance had only been in existence since 1982
28 at which time a distinction had been made between gas dispensing
29 and auto service operations .
30 Childs Suggests Rapid Oil Retain Sign Until After Remodeling Is
31 Completed
32 The Manager indicated he thought the Council might accept this
33 compromise with a May 1st deadline, the Manager indicated.
34 The Commission response to his recommendations and to the proponents '
35 statements were as follows:
36 Werenicz : indicated he sympathized with the problems posed by condemna-
37 tion but expected all the businesses along 37th Avenue to
8 •
1 prosper. 'in,-the. 'long run- because of improvements in that, road- .
•2 way;
, 3 suggested resiting the '-signage on the building closer to the
.4 corner of . the building to provide better visibility:,. which to
5 his way of thinking, ".was already quite good on that corner" ;
6 indicated he would go along with the delay in sign removal;
7 suggested the establishment' s managers might want to seek
8 permission from the City to utilize window ads which would
9 let the public know the business was only temporarily. closed
10 for remodeling;
11 advised proponents that he knew of several cases where
12 several businesses in the same area with- less visibility than
13 this- store, had been denied pylon signs because the City
14 code says- that type of signage is allowed only for businesses
15 which sell . gas;
16 in response to Mr. Gilbertson' s claim that Rapid Oil had
17 always continued to provide full automobile services , indi-
18 cated he perceived the services they offered to be only one
19 segment of the auto repair industry.
20 Franzese: said establishing a precedent like this one might thwart the
41 purpose of the sign ordinance to keep St. Anthony signage
2 low key;
23 disputed the claim that the condemnation had made this situ-
24 ati,on-unique pointing out all the other businesses , with
25 perhaps the exception of the gas station across the street,
26 who had much less signage than Rapid Oil;
27 told Mr. Gilbertson she thought he would have to .admit his
28 business enjoyed a lot of exposure on that corner even with-
29 out the pylon sign;
30 also indicated she perceived gas stations to be more "spur
31 of the moment" type of businesses , concluding from her own
32 experience as a regular customer, that most visits were
33 planned well in advance.
34 wingard: disagreed with the conclusions the other two Commissioners
35 had come to, saying that in spite of the City regulations
36 against Rapid Oil retaining the sign, he would hate to: :see
37 the company have to spend $500 to tear down a sign he per-
38 sonally thought was fairly attractive and "not a nuisance
39 at all . "
40 Hearing Tentatively Continued to November 30th
• 9
1 -: Chair Franzese apologized again for the Commission' s'' inability to, take •
2 official action on the two• requests. because of a lack of. a quorum of
3 • members. present•. _ She said this was a very unusual occurrence, buy one.
4 ,that couldn't be helped. . The applicants were- again advised to. .assume
5 ' their request would be :considered again November • 30th unless the City
6 Manager notified them to the contrary.
7 NEW BUSINESS
8 Mr. Childs reported he had• gotten in touch with the American Monarch
9 Manager in time-. to delay his appearance, which was not essential
10 because only a request for concept review and not a public hearing was
11 involved.
12 Commissioners Alerted to Water Contamination Meeting November 18th
13 The Chair reported the notice she had gotten that the Army would be
14 sponsoring the meeting to be held in the New Brighton City the follow-
15 ing evening. Mr. Childs said he wasn' t sure whether he would be able
16 to go and asked Chair Franzese to call him before he left for Washing-
17 ton D.C. Thursday morning, where_ he would be meeting with Army
18 representatives on the same issue.
19 ADJOURNMENT
20 Before the meeting was closed at 8 : 30 P.M. for continuance November
21 30th, Mr. Childs indicated just what he was looking for . when he had
22 provided them with copies of sample questions which might be included
23 in the upcoming community survey. He, indicated he was looking for
24 suggestions related to issues which had not been covered in those,
25 questions which the Commissioners thought should . be added to the final
26 survey.
27 Respectfully submitted,
28 Helen Crowe, Secretary
29 :cjk
10
i
:,ATT : AP PROVA
November 13, 1987 • �
Planning Commission Members
David M. Childs, City Manager
T T_.'M ` SIGN VARIANCE REQUEST FROM RAPID OIL CHANGE
As shown in the attached Notice of Hearing, the Zoning Ordinance allows free-standing
signs for service stations. Rapid Oil Change formerly had gas pumps and thus were
allowed the existing tree-standing sign when they originally opened. (They also got
approval for two wall signs due to their corner location. )
The gas tanks and pumps have been removed and the City then asked that the sign be
removed to comply with the sign code. The people at Rapid'0il Change are thus request-
ing permission, through a variance, to be allowed to retain the sign.
4 I recommend denial of the request. They do not have gas pumps, they do have two wall
signs and the visibility is not inadequate for the operation of their business. Auto
Traac and Paul Revere Pizza have much less signage.
i
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:CJK11 . 17.87
R
Date:
Fee : $25 .00
J
CITY OF ST. ANTHONY
PETITION FOR SIGN VARIANCE
Applicant : �1a?�� C::)«- � �c=z� �t� k-�i� one :
Address : ?mod ( 4 ✓�- ►-�' LS 2"1 tJ
Status of applicant (owner, buyer, renter, agent, etc. ) : �,�2•LQ Z
Legal description of property petitioned for variance :
Street Address :
Zoning district in which property. is located:
Request:
Minnesota Statutes and City ordinances require that the following conditions
must be satisfied affirmatively. If the answer to a statement is Yes,
please explain, using additional sheets .
Yes No
1 . The granting of the variance will not be detri-
mental to the public welfare or injurious to
other property in the neighborhood or village;
and
2 . 'A particular hardship to the applicant would re-
sult if the strict letter of the regulations are
adhered to, or
3 . The conditions upon which the application for a
variance is based are unique to the parcel of
land for which the variance is sought and are
not applicable, generally, to other property
within the same land-use classification.
Sig ure or Applicant
Signature of Owner (If other
than applicant)
t ® -
PETITION FOR SIGN VARIANCE
RE:, RAPID OIL CHANGE
3701 Silver Lake Rd.
St. Anthony Village,. MN
• _: Nl OF PARTTCt1T AR T,*^r` r'T Tr
Rapid Oil Change has operated a
quick since November'"84. From the time of opening business at 3701 Silver Lake Road
be purchased at this location. Due to pe ng until til Ma87 gasoline
storage of hazardous chemicals and thecould a1:3
at the site; the decision was made to r governing t�1e underground
Poor condition of the underground tank,,
of all gasoline products. Sign in the tanks and discontinue the sa.,
the store opened. It measures pylonx6s question has been in place since
automotive care nature of our and is approximately 18' high to to
termination of the' business has not ch p• T�
gasoline sales and would cast �ed appreciably since the
remove a sign which we spent about $2000.00 to approximately $500.00 to
also reduce our visibility and could res install. Removing the s'
result in lost sales for the company. w'l.
� #3• .
The conditions upon which the application for variance is based ar
this piece of property in that due to revisions ui the laws e unique to
underground storage, of hazardous in
combined h governing the
the existing tanks, necessitated that the tanks be with the poor conditions of
associated with the removal of the existing tanks removed.
The
e costs
the- estimated costs for new replacement ). combined with
associated with the sale of tanks and the increased liability
to suspend all gasoline wes ere prohibitive and lead to the decision
at been more successful of�theotwo 0
. business had The quick lube portion of the
operations
and has remained.
Respectfully,
RAPID OIL CHANGE
Mark J. ilbertson,
Project Manager
MJG/cr
IV D
RAPID OIL CHANGE
" ,�yTake 6t to the Chana ' � �-�0
o CORPORATE OFFICE o 3041 Ih AVENUE SOH ����
MINNEAPOLIS.MN 55408 0 (612)827.2541
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CITY OF ST. ANTHONY
NOTICE OF HEARING
SIGN VARIANCE
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
Notice is hereby given that there will be a public hearing by the
Planning Commission of the City of St. Anthony on Tuesday,
November 17 , 1987 , at 7 : 50 P.M. in the Council Chambers of the
City Hall, 3301 Silver Lake Road (enter northeast corner) ,for the
following purposes:
Request from Rapid Oil Change, 3701 Silver Lake Road, for
a variance from the provisions of the Sign Ordinance to
allow them to leave in place an existing, non-conforming
free-standing sign at that location. Such a free-standing
sign is permitted only at gasoline stations, and when gas
pumps were removed from this location recently, the sign
became non-conforming.
Anyone wishing to be heard with reference to the above matter
will be heard at said time and place. Questions regarding this
matter may be referred to the City Manager, 789-8881 .
David M. Childs
City Manager
Bulletin: November 4 , 1987
I'IHlL11V17 L1J1 - JIUJ J\Lvtn LhhG nyhV 11/t;y
W. F. Bauer Construction
Hien Van Nguyen 4324 Lakepoint Court Edward E. Solz
3645 Silver Lake Road Shoreview, MN 55112 3636 Penrod •
St. Anthony, MN 55418 St. Anthony, MN 55418 i
Re: 3640-44 Silver Lake Road
i,
jl
Bruce C. Anderson Auto Traac Don Messick
3640 Penrod 3009-37th Avenue N.E. 3101 Edgemere
St. Anthony, MN 1Anthony,554 8 St. Anthon MN 55421 St. Anthony, MN 55418
Richard LVoir Tom Packard Northern States Power
10 N.E. 6621 Way 5417 Woodcrest Drivel 1518 Chestnut North
Fridley, MN 55431 Edina, MN. 55424 Minneapolis, MN 55403
Re: 2908-37th Ave. N.E. Re: 3005-37th Ave. N.E. Re: 3716 Macalaster Drive N.E.
jamerican Monarch corporation
s_J
2801.37TH AVE.,N, 1, MINNEAPOLIS, MINN, 55421 612.788-9161
October 21, 1987
David M. Childs/City Manager
ST. ANTHONY VILLAGE
3301 Silver Lake Road
St. Anthony, MN 55418
RE; East parcel of American Monarch Corporation property
Dear Dave;
In April the Board of Directors of American Monarch Corporation
made a decision to basically limit total employment at our present
facility to 200 employees. In line with that decision, I have been
directed to pursue the sale of the approximate 12 acre between our
building and the AMOCO station.
We have done some preliminary work and it appears that there is a
market for the piece of property at a price that is attractive to
American Monarch Corporation. In talking to several Real Estate
agents, we have told them that in our opinion, the City of
St. Anthony would not approve a fast food restaurant or similar
type business establishment that can be considered a nuisance to
the residents across the street. The realtors feel that the site is
ideal for a professional type building such as a Medical/Dental
Clinic or similar type office building.
As you know our present structure is approximately 60,000 Sq.Ft.
of manufacturing which would require approximately 170 parking
spaces. The present parking facility is 128 on American Monarch
property and 100 additional spaces are on property that we lease
from the Soo Line on a year-to-year basis. American Monarch has
additional property to the West of our building that could be
used for 20 more spaces, Giving us a total of 148 against an
ordinance requirement of 170. At the present time, American
Monarch has 113 employees of which 75 are Production. Of those
75, 7 are on the Second shift which means we have a First shift
of 106 people.
David M.Childs
East Parce l
October 21 , 1987
Page 2 �
To double our present production we would probably add 10 people
to the First shift, 60 people to the Second shift and add additional
office staff of 10 to the First shift which would give us a total of
125 people on the First shift and 70-75 on the Second shift. This
means' we could provide one (1) parking space per employee per .shift
under -the existing American Monarch owned parking facilities. We
would appreciate the opportunity to discuss our plans with the
Planning Board and Government Bodies which should be involved before
we pursue the sale of the property.
Needless to say, I will be available at the convenience of the
Boards to review our plans with the hope of obtaining the necessary
variances so that the property in question may be used to create
additional employment and add economically to the City of St.Anthony.
Very truly yours,
Edward J.Fiore
Vice President/General Manager
cc: Miguel G.Mendoza
Chairman of the Board
American Monarch Corporation
Jess S.Barber
President
American Monarch Corporation
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