HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005.01.13 PC MinutesMINUTES
HUGO PLANNING COMMISSION
JANUARY 13, 2005
Call to Order
Chairman Schumann called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
PRESENT: Bailly, Hoffbeck, Kleissler, McRoberts, Rosenquist, Schumann
ABSENT: Malaski
ALSO PRESENT: Bryan Bear, Community Development Director (CDD)
Kendra Lindahl, Planner
Michele Lindau, Secretary
Minutes of November 18, 2004
Schumann made motion, Hoffbeck seconded, to approve the minutes of November 18, 2004 as
submitted.
All Ayes. Motion carried.
Victor Gardens North PUD and Preliminary Plat
The Planning Commission held a public hearing to consider the request of POA -Scherer, LLC,
3030 Centre Point Drive, Roseville for preliminary plat and PUD general plan for "Victor
Gardens North" consisting of 198 townhome units and approximately 69,900 square feet of
neighborhood office/retail on 46.43 -acres located north of Frenchmen Road (CSAR 8) and east
of Elmcrest Avenue North.
The Commission talked about the necessity of a traffic signal at the intersection of
CSAH8/Frenchman Road and Victor Hugo Boulevard. The CDD explained that residents had
requested the County install a light there but the County concluded that traffic did not warrant a
signal at this time. It is anticipated that it will be necessary when the retail properties develop.
Commissioner Hoffbeck asked for clarification on how the traffic would now into the
commercial area.
Chuck Rickert, WSB Traffic Engineer, explained how the traffic would be handled and that
access points to the grocery store would be closed to redirect west bound traffic to the north.
Planning Commission Minutes — January 13, 2005
Commissioner McRoberts pointed out that he owned property adjacent to the site. He said he
felt there were too many access points on Elmcrest Avenue North and that portion of Elmcrest
should be abandoned.
Rickert explained that it would be a right -in/ right -out when the County improved CSAH8 and
the future signal at Victor Hugo Boulevard would provide gaps in the traffic. He also said there
would be a future signal at Otter Lake Road in Lino Lakes. Rickert showed a possible future
alignment of Elmcrest in Lino Lakes.
The Planner discussed with the Commission concerns regarding areas where larger vehicles
would be required to backup around corners when leaving the some of the townhomes.
Commissioner McRoberts questioned how the water would flow through the development.
Jason McCathy, Westwood Development, said he had spent time with Phil Belifori and Jay
Kennedy, both from WSB, discussing how the area should be drained to the ditch and south to
Clearwater Creek. They acknowledged that they needed to look into a piping system, routing
drainage through a series of ponds. He said they understood they needed to maintain the flow
and install outlets and culverts that won't clog.
Arnie Triemert, 15220 Everton, said his neighbor John Udsted was unable to attend but said
Udsted was concerned that the development had no senior housing and a lot of multi -family
housing. Triemert also said there was a lot of space between the multi -family housing and the
single family housing in Victor Gardens compared to the space there would be between the
proposed townhomes and existing homes to the north.
Richard Meath, 15128 Everton Avenue North, said there were two flowages through the
properties. One was a natural drainage to the southwest into the development. He was
concerned that the back half of his land continues to drain properly. He was also concerned
about the water that drains through the proposed development to the east. Meath also said he felt
that Victor Gardens on the south of CSAH8 does not beautify the corridor going into Hugo.
Gene Zerwas. 6732 Egg Lake Road, said he had issues with the way the City did their planning
by allowing all the multi family homes and asked the Commission to consider the new school.
He said the new developments will fill up half the school. Zerwas said traffic was a problem
already, and 22 foot long driveways will not accommodate large SUV's. He said he feels the
City should be putting more expensive homes in the City and should be listening to the residents,
not the developers.
Dave Hempel, POA Scherer Project Manager, acknowledged that there were a lot of conditions
of approval. He felt they were all achievable and would continue working with staff.
Hempel talked about the townhome units explaining how the five end units along Elmcrest
would have plantings along the streets and how they would try to break up the similarities
Planning Commission Minutes — January 13, 2005
between buildings. He also talked about the demographics of the typical townhome owner; most
had no children to impact the schools and were usually one-person occupied so there would not
be as much impact on traffic. He also explained plans to have Festival Foods occupy the grocery
site. The other two building sites would possibly be sit-down restaurants. They were proposing
15,000 square feet of commercial, though there were no specific tenants at the time.
Chair Schumann talked about the building elevations, pointing out that there was no single
family townhomes proposed in the development.
Commissioner Hoffbeck recalled being told by Victor Garden's sales people that the townhomes
to the north would be single level around $200,000.
Mike Waldo, Contractor Properties, showed the Commission where the single level villa projects
would be in the future (south of the former Crain property, now Victor Gardens 4t1i) and said they
would be between $200,000 and $240,000). Waldo said they were very proud of the
development they have already done.
Commissioner McRoberts pointed out that he owns property directly north of the proposed
development and he had no problem with the proposed buffering but felt the lack of transition
was crucial. He said the proposed development lacked variety in the housing types and there was
no parkland. McRoberts asked why some of the townhomes on the north edge couldn't be single
family homes.
Mike Waldo said there was actually less density than what was originally approved.
Commissioner Hoffbeck said she felt the developers had done a fabulous job on the south side of
CSAH8. She said she understood another development done by Pratt, Liberty on the Lake, had
problems because it was too dense, not well planned. Other issues with Liberty she sited were
the development was too `tight', trouble with the fire department, drainage, and neighbors too
close. Hoffbeck also questioned whether Victor Gardens North was scaled down from what was
developed on the south.
Waldo explained they were unable to get the same price per square foot because of the large
grocery store and they needed to make it affordable.
Gene Zerwas said there was no variety; all you see is row houses.
Commissioner Hoffbeck pointed out that they were still beautiful homes.
Commissioner McRoberts said that no one was disputing the quality or attractiveness of the
units, but there was no transition.
Hempel said the ground water table is extremely high and would not accommodate houses with
basements.
Planning Commission Minutes — January 13, 2005
Waldo said it was young, professional, single people who generally purchase these homes.
Chair Schumann said he felt there was a certain amount of transitory construction. The area was
planned for all commercial in the Comprehensive Plan. It has become a mixture of commercial
and multi -family which he felt has become an attractive mixture compared to all signs and shops
though a variety of housing styles would be helpful. Schumann also said there was a safety issue
by not having turn-arounds on internal streets.
Hempel explained that the streets were less than 150' feet long and they were requesting PUD
flexibility to allow them to remain 22 feet wide. He said he would continue to work with staff.
Chair Schumann indicated that he would like to see streets that could accommodate all types of
vehicles.
Commissioner McRoberts mentioned that backing out of the proposed drives would be difficult
with snow. Issues of drainage, streets, and traffic needed to be addressed.
Chair Schumann asked the developers how long it would take for them to work out these issues
with staff.
Hempel said they could change the street widths overnight but they needed a more concrete plan
before working on the drainage issues.
Waldo said they had been working with WSB and the County on the drainage issues but they
needed to know where they were putting the roads in first. He said the roads were consistent to
what had been approved in the past.
The CDD informed the Commission that staff had worked with developers on the drainage and
had done enough review to feel comfortable. The Fire Department had reviewed the plans and
they were comfortable with backing down the streets. He acknowledged that there were issues
with the widths of the roads.
Commissioner Rosenquist said he did not want to see 20 foot wide roads; 22 feet was O.K.
Commissioner McRoberts said he had met with Len Pratt and appreciated that Pratt was making
an effort to provide a buffer but was concerned that new property owners would not be aware of
the neighboring agricultural property. There would be dust, fertilizers, and other agricultural
uses on the property. He asked that there be a provision that the purchaser be made aware that
they were buying something next to agricultural zoned property and what is permitted on
agricultural property.
Hempel spoke a little about the commercial site, explaining some of the rooptop equipment, sign
criteria, access, and circulation. He felt some traffic elements being proposed would help traffic
as well as the future access when the Miller property develops (property to the east).
Planning Commission Minutes — January 13, 2005
Meath questioned the drainage and asked if the development to the east would drain through the
development on the west.
The CDD said it was being addresses and invited him to meet with staff to discuss specifics.
The Planner recapped issued that needed to be addressed. To be addresses were fire issues, roads
that did not require backing around corners, and the 22 foot road width for private streets.
Commissioner Rosenquist agreed that there were issues with roads and traffic.
Commissioner Hoffbeck said the roads needed to be widened, and would like to see the whole
plan showing variety in the buildings. She also agreed that there were traffic issues and
deliveries for the retail areas should be considered.
Commissioner Kleissler said there were many issues and felt the development group was capable
of working through them. Specific issues were the road curve to the northwest townhomes, lack
of variety, emergency vehicle traffic, and pedestrian traffic. The also said she would like to see
more buffering along Elmcrest.
Commissioner Bailly agreed that the traffic had to get worse before a signal would be installed.
She said she would like to see single -story homes and questioned why they couldn't put them in
the northwest corner of the site saying they would provide a nice view to Rosemary Commons.
Commissioner McRoberts was concerned about lack of transition.
Bruce Pakeneon, Rottlund Homes, explained that there was not enough room to introduce
another project into the mix; they would need more units.
Commissioner McRoberts said he would like to see some alternatives that would provide some
variety and asked about the buffering around the commercial properties.
Waldo explained what the County was proposing to do with the medians and traffic signals. He
also explained that deliveries would be scheduled for off peak times.
Commissioner Rosenquist cautioned them that residents may be bothered by early and late hour
deliveries.
Waldo pointed out that the townhome units were orientated with living areas away from the store
and he showed where the buffers were.
Commissioner Hoffbeck asked about the sidewalks and the developers showed the Commission
where they would be located.
Commissioner McRoberts asked about the hours of construction
Planning Commission Minutes — January 13, 2005
Hempel said hours would be according to City Ordinance.
Commissioner Rosenquist asked who the commercial tenants would be.
Bruce Carlson, Retail Development, informed him that they would not be working with any side
retailers until they had the anchor store in place (Festival Foods). He pointed out that it was a
very small amount of space compared to the grocery store.
Matt Alexander, CDPC, said there was a lot of interest in the retail but no leases signed yet.
Waldo indicated to the Commission that he would like to bring the request back to them at their
next meeting.
Schumann made motion, Hoffbeck seconded, to table the request until staff was satisfied with the
modifications made to the plan.
All Ayes. Motion carried.
January 27, 2005 Joint Meeting With the City Council
The CDD reminded the commission of the joint meeting scheduled on Thursday, January 27,
2005 with the City Council to discuss the findings of the Rural and Open Space Committee. The
meeting would begin at 6:30. The regular meeting of the Planning Commission was scheduled to
for 7:30 that same evening.
January 31, 2005 Tour of the New Public Works Facility
The CDD reminded the Commission of the tour of the new Public Works facility scheduled for
7:00 pm on Monday, January 31, 2005. This tour was for City staff, City Council, and
Commission members. An open house was scheduled for a later date.
Adjournment
McRoberts made motion, Bailly seconded, to adjourn at 9:22 p.m.
All Ayes. Motion carried.
Michele Lindau, Secretary
Planning Commission