HomeMy WebLinkAbout1975.11.12 PC Minutes l ,
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
OF THE HUGO PLANNING COMMISSION
NOME MB ER 12, 1975
Pub l i c Hearing
The public hearing regarding a request for rezoning of the prop-
erty at 9856 l40th Street North, owned by Gerald & Gillian Moe from
Conservancy to Agricultural was opened at 7 :kOPM. The legal notice
was read by Chairman Spitzer.
Mr. Moe showed his plans to the people in attendance. He ex-
plainedthat he had made ten soil borings sharing that the soil con-
ditions are excellent where the home sites are located on the map
he presented. He showed the location of the Pp erc tests and stated
that the results of the tests were given to the Washington County
Planning Department. He also stated that he would like ten home
sites on the 95* Acre parcel. He explained la ined that the lot sizes vary
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because of the terrain of the land. The road is on high terrain so
that grading would be no problem. He explained he has two requests-
changing the zoning from Conservancy to Agricultural, and varying
the lot sizes, with a slightly lower density than an average 10 acres.
M.Cammack: I don't understand what the per° tests are and what is
meant by conservancy.
Spitzer: Explained that the land was originally zoned conservancy not
because the land would not support a pera test , but because of the
large number of ponding areas. He said Mr. Moe has found a suitable
building site for each lot and a satisfactory per° test has been made
on each lot. He explained how the per° test is taken, and said fur-
ther information could be obtained from the building inspector.
Schwab : Stated he did feel each lot has a suitable building site.
L.Shimota : What is the primary criteria used to determine whether it
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is i conservancy district?
Spitzer: Generally, if the area has a surface water problem, but that
is not the only criteria .
Ehret : The zoning was done generally, based on property lines rather
than following land contours.
Moe : Twin City Soil Exploration Company has made five soil borings
on that property to depths of 19 feet end at 19 feet there was no ev-
idence of water at all. The character of the soil is clay in the low
areas to clay-sand mixtures in the higher areas. The homes ices , them-
selves, on the average, are at least thirteen feet above any water table.
Mrs. Cammack: What happens when homes are continually built. Sooner
or later, wont there have to be sewers? Too many homes mean sewers,
paved roads, higher taxes, to all of us who moved out here to be in
the country.
Spitzer: It is generally the intention of the city g ov a rnment to main,
tain the eastern portion of the city in an agricultural environment
that is lots of 10 acres or larger. There are certain areas that be-
cause of the terrain of the land, don't , in the best interest of the
city, even meet the criteria for ten sore lots, these were zoned con-
servancy. Again, it has been defined by the city that 10 sore home
sites are the smallest allowed in agricultural zoning. It has not
been the purpose of the city to encourage high density zoning in that
area. Mrd. M0e has requested that the zoning be changed because he
feels that because of the terrain on that piece of property y it should
not have been zoned conservancy in the first place and he is asking
to have it reviewed.
M.Cammack: Is proof of an adequate per() test the only requirement
Mr. Moe must meet?
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Spitzer:
In order to build a house on a tract of land, it is necessary
to demonstrate an adequate per() test but that is not the only criteria ,
and Mr. Moe po int ed out t ha t t! e land t o the east i s a 1 rea dy zoned
agricultural where ten acre building sites are allowed. It is reason-
able to entertain requests of this type.
Mr, Skimota : What has been discussed up to this time, is what is under
the ground; but then there is the above ground situation. I would like
to see bare minimum amount of homes.
Spitzer: Is it your contention that there are possible reasons that the
property in question should be retained as a conservancy district?
Shimota: I didn't know the meaning of Conservancy until this meeting.
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I am concerned about looking at additional houses traffic , etc.
Spitzer: Do I understand that you don'trt ioularil object to Mr.
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Moe's change from Conservancy to Agricultural but you are disturbed
by the plat as shown because it shows plats s under ten acres?
Shitta : Yes, .I feel it is critical that the natural resources by
protected,
Spitzer: If basically you want twenty acre sites, then you have to ask
the council to change the law to read twenty acre sites instead of ten.
Schwab: Whether we have nine lots to fit the land or 9 ten acre lots ,
which he can also get , but wont be as satisfactory either to the comm-
unity or to the people who live there, nine houses will be built on
the property whether they are built as the land best dictates or just
to fill the requirements of the law. There are lots that are not ten
acres but there are also lots that exceed ten acres . A requirement
would have to be made, that these lots cannot be further sub-divided
until suck time, the zoning law changes.
Ms.Shimota : What are the natural resources wit are talking about?
Spitzer: Surface water and water table.
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Ms.Shimota : There are lots of ponds. Shouldn't ' these be protected?
Spitzer; We are concerned about whether dividing these lots into ten
acre lots instead of twenty acre lots would be destroying those re-
sources.
Moe : Shimota is built on a ten acre site.
Shimota : What about the park?
Moe : There is supposed to be a certain amount of land put aside for
park areas.
M.Cammack: Asked if the property description in the legal notice is
imcomplete.
Spitzer; Yes, the property description is not in it 's entirety.
Ms.Cammack: If you are trying to justify going agricultural, you are
not going to think t ha t putting even one more home site in there does-
n't change the area . The minute homes are put in, the wild life leaves.
It seems someone is always asking for a variance. I feel the people
of this city have rot to decide what they want and stick to it. r,
The whole area out there is pretty muck the same , rocky, rolling, woody
and swampy. I feel that if we are trying to slow up development , the
way to do it is to keep the lot sizes up.
Ehret : It apparently is the feeling of the people here that the city
is asking for this change and it is actually the owner of the land who
is ma ktm the request. It is the original intent of the city to re-
quire twenty acre lots in the rural area , but it was very thoroughly
shot down by the people of the city. People felt they couldn't sell
their land and so the city zoned ten acres except for areas, based on
an oriel map generally, would be zoned twenty acres knowing that there
might be errors in the zoning. Mr. Moe is attempting to prove that
his land was erroneously zoned conservancy.
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Shimota: I feel that in order to be valid, the soil borings shouldn't
be made by the land owner. Also does the 95f acres include the road
and three acre park?
Spitzer: It is general _practice that the land owner may take his own
tests and submit them to the building inspector and if there is any
reason to feel that they are not valid, they are required to have them
done professionally. Yes , the 95* acres does include the road and park.
M.Cammack: Isn't your whole Conservancy zoning going to be in jeopordy
if you make this change? Next, five acre sites will be allowed.
Spitzer: In agricultural zoning, ten acre sites are allowed; five
acre lots are not . The point of . issue is whether this particular piece
of property should have been zoned agricultural rather than Conservancy.
Schwab : There is a piece of property north of town zoned Conservancy,
containing 60 or 90 acres with only two building sites on it. The rest
of the land has a very high water table with only a couple knobs high
enough for a building site. Thisis a good example of Conservancy zoning.
Hardwood Creek is a good example of Conservancy.
Spitzer: We are particularily concerned about drainige.
Moe: Inquired if he could rezone to RR2.
Spitzer: No, according to the comprehensive plan, in that area zoning
is to be no less restrictive than agricultural. The reason for that
zoning, is so that on-site sewer systems will not be unduly taxed, and
for that reason, the eastern part of the city has been held for open
space and very low density.
Mr.Shimota : Please explain the easement for the future road.
Moe : Planning Commission asked me to dedicate some land for a future
road which would be adjacent to Mr. Ehret and Mr.Streich's boundary so
that a road could someday be built there in the event either of these
men dubdivided their land.
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Spitzer: The intent is if this plat should be approved, to allow for
that easement although no dedication is to be made, but in the future ,
it may be a good place for a road.
Vii.Cammack: Is 14001 Street on the section line?
Ehret : No, the section line is south of Carl Streieh's home.
Spitzer: Any more questions?
Neil Fagerbaugh: What weight do the views of the neighbors have in
this process?
Spitzer: We hold the hearing to find out if there are any objections
and if they are valid. The question is whether the land should be
rezoned from Conservancy to Agricultural. Adequately low density is
achieved by ten acre lots and we are required to go higher than that
if the natural environment is threatened.
Mr.Shimota : If you decide to rezone to ten acres, can the next owner
say he wants five?
Spitzer: If.Mr. Moe or the re xt owner wants to rezone from 10 to 5,
he has the right to make the request but the criteria we would have to
use is different from the criteria we would have to use tonight. We
then must consider the impact on the city 's zoning plans.
Ehret : As a neighboring land owner, I would like to know if the people
here tonight really object to a ten acre zoning rather than a twenty
acre zoning.
Spitzer: Please consider first, that whether the change in that zoning
will significantly impact the net environment of the city and by that
we mean the water drainage. In your judgment, would changing that zon-
ing from conservancy to agricultural cause contamination of the water
table in that part of the city?
Vii.Cammack: I don't think my opinion would mean a thing. I think it
would take a professional to make that decision.
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Shimota
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Shimota: Is this a test case to test this law? Is this the first
rezoning from Conservancy to Agricultural?
Spitzer: Yes, this is the first rezoning request. I suppose it could
be a test case.
Ehret : I t chink that the original zoning meant that there would be cases
where requests for change would be made.
Irene Leroux: Read the definition of conservancy and stated that the
city should appoint- a zoning board.
Fagerbaugh: How is the adjoining land zoned?
Spitzer: To the east it is agricultural, north, west and south , it is
conservancy.
Schwab : It is more convenient to rezone where a mistake was made in
mooning too restrictive rather than trying to rezone from ten to t we nt y
acres where a mistake was made the other direction.
Fagerbaugh: Suggested that each person be checked individually as to
their feelings. I feel, in fairness to Jerry Moe , there is not just
cause to refuse his request , even if I don't want more homes there.
D.Rice : I am not opposed to rezoning. I don't feel that the drainage
should be affected.
Mrs. Cammack: I feel the ponds are important to animals. I feel we
should be preserving something for the next generation. We are ruin-
ing this beautiful. country.
Mr. Shimota : He said a councilman from Afton said they look upon Hugo
as a model government and he is here because he is concerned.
Spitzer: Thank you for coming. Your comments wi ll':be taken into con-
sideration. The hearing adjourned at 8:55 PM.
Meet ini
The meeting was called to order at 9 :05PM by Chairman Spitzer.
Attending were Spitzer, Ehret , and Peltier. Leroux arrived at 9 : 5PM.
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Also
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Also attending were Bill Schwab , Washington County Planning Department ,
and Irene Leroux of the city Council. Mayor Lease arrived late and
sat in on part of the meeting.
Motion made by Ehret , seconded by Peltier, that the minutes of the
October 18, 1975 meeting should be corrected to read "adjourn the
public hearing", instead of "adjourn" , in paragraph three, page one
of the minutes. The minutes were approved as corrected. Motion carried.
White Bear Hod and Gun Club
Jerry Perron appeared to discuss the lighting plans for the club.
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He explained they would like to begin construction before the ground
freezes.
Mrs. Peltier read an excerpt from the minutes of the Sep1ember 15,
1975 Council meeting and it was her opinion that theirs per-
mit
use
pp
mit is now null and void, because condition Nos. 1 and 2 had not been
met. There was discussion about this matter and Mr. Perron said it
was the opinion of the Gun Club's attorneythey
that were not in vio-
lation
io-lation and was discussing this with the city attorney.
Spitzer stated that he thought that the commission could treat
the subject as the special use permit being in suspension and handle
the matter subjectto the re-instatement of the special use permit.
The planning commission asked the White Bear Rod & Gun Club re-
presentative to describe the level of illumination at the boundary
lines of the property and the representative assured the Planning Com-
mission that there would not be adequate illuminuation at the boundaries
to cast a shadow.
Schwab felt their plan was good.
Motion made by Ehret, seconded by Spit zer, that the lighting plan
submitted by the White Bear Rod & Gun Club, looks adequate and should
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b*e forwarded to the City Engineer for: his recommendation and thence to
the city council; Voting aye : Spitzer and Ehret. Peltier voting no.
Motion carried.
Ken Tschida
Mr. Tschida wasn't in attendance and no action was taken on his
requests. Recess called at 9:37PM. Meeting reopened at 9 : +7PM.
J yMoe
request for rezoning from Conservancy to Agricultural
*as discussed, along with his request for a special use permit to
allow a slightly lower density. Spitzer summarized the feelings of
the people attending the public hearing for the benefit of James
Leroux, who arrived late.
Motion made by Leroux, seconded by Peltier, to recommend to the
City Council that Mr. Moe 's property be rezoned from Conservancy to
Agricultural. Voting aye : Spitzer, Ehret , Leroux, and Peltier.
Motion carried.
The second part of the request , for a special use permit to per-
mit density zoning to permit at least preliminary approval of the plat
in the Agricultural zone , lots of less than 10 acres on the grounds
that the average density of the parcel will be slightly less than 10
acres. Comments as follows :
Peltier felt average lot size should be ten acres and doesn't want
city to own three acre park. Doesn't feel he should have so many five
acre lots. Schwab said he checked the property, inspected the road site
looking at the total piece of property and feels the land is utilized
well with the plans as presented. He thinks that changing the plan to
make ten acre lots would not give as good a plan as it is now. He feels
that there should be a dedicated easement for a future road to the east
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but .ot constructed. The park could be assigned to all the lots equally
making sure that the taxes are paid on the lot. The property could not
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be* further sub-divided without permission of the city of Hugo. Because
the lots are larger than four acres, a gravel road would be sufficient .
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As a subdivider, Mr. Moe would be required to either donate land or mon-
ey, at the option of the Council. On parcels of five acres or larger,
$100 to $200 per lot would be reasonable.
Spitzer stated that they could not act on the special use permit
since they did not first have the opinion of the city engineer.
Leroux felt that Lot 2 should have the "pan "
.,_ handle removed and
probably added to lot three. Moe said that Lot 2 was that size and
shape because the buyer for his home wanted 20 acres and this land was
added to come up with the 20 acres. Ehret would like to see at least
one lot eliminated making the total density smaller. Spitzer felt that
If they allow him a density any smaller than 10 acres they are taking
a very dangerous -SUR' He personally doesn't like the concept of having
the smaller lots. He recommended getting the sense of the planning
commission so they know *here to go from there.
Motion made by Peltier, seconded by Leroux, that the sense of the
planning commission is stated to be in favor of density zoning concept
as applied to the Moe property. Voting aye : Leroux and Peltier. Vot-
ing no: Spitzer and Ehret . Tie vote and the motion lost.
Schwab said t ha t since there was only four members present , it
would probably be adviseable to bring it up again at another meeting
so we wouldn't be faced with .a tie vote.
Motion mode by Ehret, seconded by Leroux, that the matter of the
Moe 'Special Use Permit be tabled until the next subsequent meeting at
which time the sense of the planning commission will be re-e tablished.
Voting aye : Spitzer, Ehret, Leroux and Peltier. Motion carried.
Schwab felt that it would be desireable to bring together the
Planning Commission, the City Council, the Washington County Planner,
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and Carl Dale , who could be brought , if necessary, at the expense
of the county.
Jim Beulow, who introduced himself as interested buyer for the
Moe property , stated he feels that if Mr. Moe is required to change his
lot sizes to ten acres, it wont be in the best interest of the land.
There is no other wayt o d o it except apt as it is laidout now.
Motion made by Ehret, seconded by Peltier, to schedule a joint
meeting of the Planning Commission, the City Cound. 1 William Schwab ,
and the City Engineer, for 8 :00PM on December subject_
3rd, ub� at t o can-
cellation by the Mayor. All voted aye. Motion carried.
Motion made by Leroux, seconded by Peltier to adjourn the meeting
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at 11 :15PM. Motion carried.
8,,,t,„zz52-)Q�
Mary Va e Babcock, Secretary