Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1976.04.27 CC Minutes APRIL 27, 1976 MINUTES OF THE PROCEEDINGS OF THE HUGO CITY COUNCIL 39 9 TIME: 7:14 P.M. - WITHROW SCHOOL PRESENT: Lease, Leroux, Schletty and Smith. SUNSET LAKE INFORMATIONAL MEETING Lease read notice of public meeting - announced that Hugo is under orders from the PCA and Rice Creek Watershed District to clean up the lake and this is one of the reasons for holding this meeting. He said the Council is trying to keep this a local issue whereby the people can work with the council and the City Engineer to resolve their problems,rather than turning it over to either PCA or Rice Creek. Several general meetings have been held, he said, looking at the lake level and causes for some of the pollution and they haven't been able to come up with a solution. Tonight Howard Kuusisto, City Enginee6, will try to come up with some solutions. Will present some proposals and then answer questions. Howard Kuusisto presented an ariel photograph of the Sunset Lake area, and announced the purpose of this meeting is to get the feel- ings of the people as to what they would like to see done - presented some of the problems of the most serious nature - stated that PCA is concerned with the pollution problems, contaminated wells and also the lake level. The lake level itself is presenting a problem, he said. Some of the septic systems have effluent draining into the lake. Effluent he explained is the material that drains out of the septic system; influent is the material that enters the septic system. He explained that many of the private systems are not working properly. One of the problems is possible entrance of the effluent into the lake and into the ground where it can enter the wells. Some drainage systems are too close to the well. For some people on the Eastern side of the lake, it is almost impossible to get far enough away from the lake, he said. To the north, a little more land is available and the problem is not so great. He also stated that it is necessary for the lowest part of the drainfield to be at least 4' higher than the lake level. The systems on the east side of the lake fail for many reasons, among them the lake level, not sufficient land available, and the distance the septic system is from the well. As we go further north, he noted, there are some residents that are more remote but are putting raw sewage into the lake. He explained that Sunset Lake is at the upper end of the drainage basin that flows eventually through an outlet into Round Lake. Sunset Lake is rising faster, at the present time, than it can empty into Round Lake; it must first climb to a higher elevation and it is out of the jurisdiction of Hugo to alter this situation. In regard to Royal Haven Estates on the West side of the lake, he said it would be possible to transport that sewage further to the west if necessary. He stated that in order to have an adequate private sewer system and eliminate contamination of wells itwould be neccessary to have sufficient land to provide treatment otherwise it would be necessary to purchase more land or acquire land wherever possible to treat it. This would be the easiest and least expensive solution. Another alternative would be a collective unit for those in diff- iculty, by means of isolating five or six units and then pooling them together or get the entire population on the east side of the lake to transport theLr sewage to another location to treat it and the treat- ment coPild be the same as for a private system except it would be away from the lake. The collective system consisting of septic tank (which is con- sidered an Imhoff tank) and drainfields and pumping station would cost approximately $70,000.00 to $85,000.00 for the sewer along the lake and the treatment unit and drainfield would run an additional $20,000.00 to $30,000.00 without land acquisition. Another solution would be a Small Package Treatment Unit which would cost approximately $20,000.00 to $30,000.00 for a used unit. It would require blowers, need an operator and horsepower for elec- tricity involving cost of operation. A new unit would run $75,000.00 The first or second alternative would be preferable from the standpoint of maintenance and the cost of operation would be minimal. The other people in the basin, further from the lake, would have to be considered, he said. Basically, the basin is formed of people living from Hilo going around to the north side of the lake and around over close to Irish Avenue, with the high ridges forming the natural barriers to the basin. (Discussion opened to public) Grover Storm: Asked if Sunset is a public lake - said it is a meandering 8042 N. 132 lake and asked about dam on west side of lake. Kuusisto: The lake was flowing over the dam when we looked at it. Storm: Can the dirt be moved out of the road on the west side of lake? Lease: It is public water and DNR has control of it. That wouldn't necessarily solve the problem anyway. Kuusisto: Meandering lakes are owned to a point out in the lake but you don't own the lake. Storm: What would happen if the road would be taken out? Kuusisto: Nothing. There are culverts under all the roads. All the lakes in our area have high water now. Storm: There is a state agency telling you to do something; is there any state aid available? Kuusisto: This is a lateral system and trying to get state or federal help is nearly impossible. There are other areas that need help so much worse that it would be next to impossible. Resident: Going from Hwy. 61 to Sunset Lake, what are the develop- mental prospects as far as getting sewer is concerned? Kuusisto: Hugo is divided into districts and from 61 to Goodview is is one district. Beyond that district, there are no prospects of getting sewer in the foreseeable future. There was the possibility that sometime in the future, there would be a line coming from the Southeast, but there is no current information as to when that line would be available. Until that time, it would have to be individual systems or a collective treatment center. 3esident: What would satisfy PCA's needs? Kuusisto: An adequate system. What are you people willing to do to correct your problems? This is what the Council wants to know. Resident: Who will enforce this? Kuusisto: The Council is responsible to see that it is enforced. Lease: On the east side of the lake, we know there are going tobe some really serious problems in trying to solve these matters. We know that certain systems are polluting the lake right now we are trying to show you tonight what the problems are and what some of the solutions can be and we are not certain what the costs will be. One way we could be certain to clean up the area would be to pump the effluent over to Pigs eye. That would be very expensive and we feel that it is possible to find another solution. Resident: Would it be possible to move the road making more land available to people on the east side of the lake. APRIL 27, 1976 41 Kuusisto: For awhile, we thought we could, but on the southern part, we could not get the necessary cooperation to obtain the land necessary to move the road. The road is only about 30' wide there now. It might be possible to obtain land across the road so that three homes could pump into one system. Resident: Leaving the outlets the way they are today, how much higher could the lak-: go? Kuusisto: It could go considerably higher. Lease: We don't have control of the lake level but even by lowering the lake we aren't going to solve these other problems. Resident: On the west side where the new homes are, are there any systems that are ±:adequate? Kuusisto: Most of the drainfields seem to be adequate, but we weren't able to get accurate information, since the information was obtained from the home owner rather than from the homebuilder or sewer installer. Lease: Most of the water samples tak3n from the west side of the lake were good. People on the north have adequate property to take care of any problems they may have. Lease said some people have good systems but the nearness of the lake is the problem, causing leeching into the lake. I want to see the problem solved, as inexpensively as possible, but yet doing the job. Kuusisto: If it were necessary to install a collective sewer system with pumping station for the approximately fourteen families on the east side of the lake, it could easily run frcm $6,000.00 to $8,000.00 and maybe even $10,000.00 per home, whereby a private system could be installed for around 3,500.00 per home unless more land has to be acquired, which would increase the cost. Tom Creager: What is an adequate system for drainage? 12203 Ingersoll Kuusisto: Usually 150 square feet of drainfield per bedroom is required and 750 to 1 ,000 gallon sealed tank is common for normal households. Soil conditions are a factor and footage is based on perculation. Tom Roan: I've heard of a series of dry wells being used. 12929 Homestead Kuusistd: Our code calls for a sealed septic tank and then leeching pits or dry wells ,;an be used but drainfields should be considered first. Leeching pits require better soil conditions than drain fields. If you have a high water table, the pits can fill up. Jim Smith: I would like to ask the people on Sunset Leif they think the lake is worth that expense. Why not let DNR just drain the lake. Lease: What values do you place on the lake. Do you want to save it? Storm: Why not try to reduce the lake two feet? I used to walk across the lake. Kuusisto: What do you think should be done? Storm: If you take two feet off the lake, you still have a pretty lake. Creager: Where does the two feet go? Kuusisto: Over to Round Lake. Creager: Right. Pass it down to your neighbor. Lady: We still have to correct the problems, right? Kuusisto: Yes, the problems still have to be corrected. Resident: If there are three or four people who can't solve their problems, then what? , iusisto: That is when additional land could be purchased for putting L� sewage from three or four homes, or pumping the sewage to a location further away. Lease: The homes that don't have adequate room, the city would in— sure road crossings so that the problems could be solved, The distance that they hoped to move the road would not help the people who are so close to your road. Schletty: If we did lower the culvert by the outlet on County #10, Possibly the lake could be lowered 1i to 2 feet, then what would you people be willing to do after that? That culvert has been there for fifty years, and I don't think DNR is going to change it. G. Zinschlag:I think lowering the lake 1i to 2' would help the drainfields 12670 Ingersoll too. Resident: What about using mounding? Kuusisto: Mounding is experimental. Resident: How long do we have to clean up the lake? Lease: We don't have a time limit but they are getting tougher. Data has been collected on everyone's systems and the lake must be cleaned up. Rice Creek would install a system and assess the cost back to the land owners, if the solution rested with them. Kuusisto: If we make reasonable progress toward solving the problem, PCA will leave us alone, but it must be corrected. They would like us to solve the problem locally, however. Rice Creek knows we have problems, and they want them cleaned up now. We want them cleaned up, too. Irene Leroux: It isn't a matter of whether we want to save the lake or not, we have to solve the problem. Lease: Jim Smith and I talked about running a force main all the way from Hwy 61 to solve the problem and the cost would run to over $10,000.00 per household. T. Crever: I think any lake is worth saving. Where would the effluent 12942 Ingersebe pumped from the pumping station? Kuusisto: (Indicated areas on dap) We want to know if you people want to look at a private system first, otherwise it would be necessary to get soil borings,a feasability study and costs and then there would have to be a public hearing, if it is not done by using private systems. Gordon Gilde: Wouldn't it be possible to isolate the houses in three cate— • 2422 Ingersoll gories, the people who have adequate systems, the people who have problems but adequate land to remedy them, and the people who have inadequate systems and not enough land to remedy them? Roan: Keeping in mind the need for a more adequate system couldn't some temporary economical means be implemented with plans for a larger system as demands require it, but now only tying in those who need it? Kuusisto: If there are only a few people tied in, it becomes quite costly, but it isn't impossible. Resident: Individuals are going to have a difficult time sitting down and making these decisions unless the city gives us some answers regarding the road. Kuusisto: The city is reluctant to upgrade a road that has so little width. It would be difficult to improve the surface in that type of situation. We wanted to move the road so there could be off—street parking but we have met with resistance. Resident: You can use condemnation. Kuusisto: Yes, as a last resort. APRIL 27, 1976 43 Resident: If there isn't going to be a change in the road, people should' know about it. Who would parr for changing the road? Lease: The city would unless we upgraded the road - blacktopped it then it would be assessed to the people. We talked about realigning the road so that it would extend north to next section of Ingersoll Avenue. Kuusisto: How many on the east side do not know if their systems are inadequate. (two people raised their hands) J. Crever: There are people looking at the land across from us to the east. Will they be able to build or will they have to give an easement for the road? Lease: If he bought five acres, he doesn't have to deed anything. J. Crever: In other words, the road won't be changed? Lease: We want to change it but we have received too much opposi- tion. Resident: If a right angle was done to the East at Mastroddi's - may- be instead of a traditional road, maybe some cul de sacs ckuld be brought in from Irish. Kuusisto: If the road was constructed to the North andto the East, who would buy the right of way. Gilde: Is there a section line that runs East-West? Kuusisto: I think Ingersoll is the section line. If we could move the road over thirty feet that would be a benefit, but those plans fell by the wayside. , T. Crever: I would like to get back to the sewer problem. If we pump out of the tasin how do we know we aren't going to create problems for some other area. Lease: We don't know if we are going to pollute sone other place. The other solution we are talking about is collecting and treating and running back to the lake and it gets pretty expensive and. you people would have to pay; for the operation. Some people say spending $5,000.00 to remedy the situation is no problem, but $5,000.00 to others is a lot of money. Creager: If five out of nine, upgrade their system, maybe the prob- lem won't be too bad. Maybe the lake could stand that. Lease: I would like to see City work with Howard to do what can be done to the individual systems if we can satisfy PCA. Resident: How about dropping the lake level and then checking every- one's system? Kuusisto: We checked it when it was low. Schletty: In 1934, there was about two acres of water in that lake. Let's keep in mind that the lake can go up and down. Resident: What do you think the homeowners here should do - go home and look at upgrading their systems? Kuusisto: Yes, I think so. Lease: We would like to give you some technical advise and then see what you can do about solving your own problems. How many people here would like to try to solve their own pro- blems or do you want us to try to design a system to solve the problems. Show of hands to solve own problems - one hand per family - (show of 22 hands) Kuusisto: It will be necessary to have a plan and get approval, for making the changes. The first question to ask yourselves is can you get 100' away from the lakeshore? What is the perc rate? You will need at least a 750 gallon watertight tank. Can you make this work on your lot staying at least 50' from your well and your neighbor's well? Resident: How do we know it will be approved? 11iusisto: If the system is put in and is adequate, you will not have ``f� to take it out. Resident: Is it possible to find out how high DNR will allow the lake to go? Kuusisto: We are. looking into that now. Schletty: That culvert is pretty small - there is nothing saying that we can't get it changed. Kuusisto: We have talked to Rice Creek about it and they said we could investigate it. We told them the lake is rising faster than it can overflow. Creager: If there was an adequate treatment system, would the lot size requirement be changed? Kuusisto: I can't answer that. It is the small lot size that has con- tributed to the problem and we aren't looking for a solution so that there can be smaller lot sizes. J. Crever: I have a sister that lives on 3rd Lake in Forest Lake and they had an interceptor run out to them several years ago. If we spend this money now and in several years the interceptor comes out and we could hook up, what then? Lease: We have been reminded several times that the interceptor was- n't built for Hugo, it was built for Forest Lake and I don't think we are going to get sewer from Stillwater. J Crever: How far are we away from Goodview as the crow flies? Lease: I think the question is what kind of a line would we build? a line under pressure or one that everyone could hook up to. We don't have all the answers; we are looking for input from you. Smith: I think they have too many problems on the east side of the lake for them to work together to solve their own problems. Lease: I think he is right. Karen Olson: If we fix our own systems, can we get them inspected and 12980 Ingersoll approved? Lease: They will have to meet the standards listed by our Engineer before we get Rice Creek approval. The City will be pretty strict to make sure the work is really done and the system really works. Resident: There are toilets that work by incineration. I have seen them work. Kuusisto: They do have these on the market - all these things have to be approved. Lease: The regular toilet would have to be sea led off then - it is the same thing as putting in a holding tank and then if they aren't sealed off, what is stopping you from pumping it off at night. Creager: Do you have an adequate sewer ordinance in Hugo? If not, how can we enforce anything? Smith: I think the Ordinance Committeethinks it is. Crever: You said we couldn't work together collectively. Creager: When I built my house, what were my drain fields based on? Crever: They were based on perc tests. Creager: Do you have information as to what my drain fields are? Crever: Not off the top of my head. Creager: You do have them though? Crever: Yes. Creager: What about the houses on the west side of the lake? Kuusisto: The property owners gave us the information and they could have erred. We were interested in how far their septic syster were from the lake and how many feet of drainfields they havE I only said that where they said 50 feet, we don't accept that figire as being accurate but when we found they were less than four feet from the lake level, we said they don't meet code. APRIL 27, 1977 45 Creager: Mounding should be considered. Lease: I don't accept mounding. Creager: Because you aren't familiar with it. We should be consider- ing all avenues. Resident: What is a mound? Kuusisto: If you do not have adequate area for drain fields you bring in dirt above ground and bury your drainfield into that mound, Resident: I heard it is being done near Aitkin and they say this can be done without any excessive amount of odor. Kuusisto: It is usually made of granular material and when it is saturated it goes down and this would pollute the lake. Yes, they are doing this in the lowlands up there at Aitkin. Resident: How long has the plumbing code been in effect? Kuusisto: About 100 years. Resident: Why did a man build a drainfield in the lake? Kuusisto: It was probably built during a period that the man could walk across the lake. Crever: What were your figures for running that system? Kuusisto: $70,000.00 to $85,000.00 plus treatment cost of $20,000.00 to $30,000.00 Resident: Does this include land acquistion cost? Kuusisto: No. Gamboni: How can I get approval if I repair my sewer system? Kuusiste: First you have to get 100' from the lake, and then take a perc test. Creager: Does the building code in Hugo say the setback is 100'? Crever: Rice Creek says 150' . Kuusisto: Our code says 100' but then you have to get Rice Creek approval. Crever: Why don't we stick to the problems that are at hand and stop our bickering. Creager: Are you policing new permits? Kuusisto: If Crever feels there is a problem with a proposed system, he immediately turns it over to either my office or Rice Creek. Storm: Do we go by state code in the country? Kuusisto: You are under Hugo code. Resident: I believe I can upgrade my system but I can't meet all the requirements but I can improve it 75 - 90%. Is it worthwhile for me to do it? Can I submit a plan to you regarding setback, etc? Kuusisto: That is right. Almost everyone will have to be examined on it's own merit. . Gilde: Our plumbing inspector is inadequate. Can we get someone else to survey the problems? Lease: Rice Creek has a viewer who goes out and can look at problems. I think a committee should be formed to represent the people on the lake. It would be easier to work with a committee then working with everyone individually. Every- one who can work out their own problems should submit a plan and those who can't will have to work with the City in order to solve their problems. Meeting adjourned at 9:40 P.M. • Carol A. Williams Clerk, City of Hugo