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HomeMy WebLinkAbout06/19/1974 P&Z MinutesJune 19, 1974 The regular meeting of the Lino Lakes Planning end Zoning Board was called to order at 3:05 P.M. by Chairman Karth on June 19, 1974. Members present; Hill, Kelling, L'Allier. Absent; Nadeau, Rothbauer, Shearen. Mr. Marier was also present. Mr. L'Allier moved to approve the minutes of May 15, 1974 as presented. Seconded by lir. Hill. Motion carried. Mr. Hill moved to approve the minutes of April 17, 1974 as presented. Seconded by Mr. Kelling. Motion carried. Mr. Klemp, who leases property on Lake Drive just North of Elm Street, appeared before the Planning and. Zoning Board with a request to house horses at that location. He has seven head at the present time and stated that these are for their private use and the use df friends. He had rented horses at one time but no longer does this. tlr. Karth asked if he carried the proper liability insurance,. Mr. Klemp said they have insurance on the horses but not liability for the riders. This was the reason for discontinuing to rent horses. He had also been under the impression that he was leasing more land than he is. They ride the horses along the streets, back along 4th Avenue, which deadends at the Freeway, then along the Freeway fence and back through a grove of trees. Mr. L'Allier thought that Mr. Klemp would discover that liability insurance for the leasing of horses a very expensive premium. If this kind of operation is set up at that location, then he would need more acreage, a special use permit which requires a hearing and the approval of adjoining property owners, and the liability coverage. Mr. dill asked if' five acres wasn't required in order to keep animals and was told, Yes. Mr. Hill asked if tlr. Kremp is in the process of acquiring more property. Mr. Klemp said he is negotiating wlth:t•1r. Tilsen for the purchase or leasing of more acreage. They only ride the trails along the roads that'are left by the miniblke users and he only has two neighbors, Mr. Glenn Rehbein and the neighbors to the Borth of his home. Mr. L'Allier asked if he owned any of the land and Mr. Klemp said he did not, thdt he was only leasing the property. Whether he buys or not depends On the price lire. Tilsen wants for the land. Mr. Karth felt that there is not enough room for horse back riding. There are homes along Elm Street and this area should not be used. Mr. L'Allier thought that since he is .in the process of acquiring more land, there is no decision for this Board to make. The matter of the acreage must be clarified first. Page 2 The gentleman with Mr. Klemp suggested that one of the Board members stop by the property and look over the operation with the possibiliity of giving them suggestions as to what would be required for the issuance of a special use permit. Mr. Hill felt that the matter of the land and the insurance should be straightened out before they reappear before the Board. Also, the land they are using for a trail is private. Mr. Klemp thought this was Highway property but Mr. Hill said the Highway Department does not own any land beyond the fence and part of the land to the West of his property is owned the School District 112. Mr. Klemp said he was aware of that parcel of land that it is seeded and they do not ride thorugh there. He said he had talked with his insurance agent about the necessary liability insurance and had been told that even with insurance there are special requirements. Horses must be saddled in a special roped off area and lead out of that area before the rider can mount. He must also post signs that say "Ride At Your Own Risk' in order to protect himself from fraudelent lawsuits. Mr. Karth was concerned that if at the present time they are using private property and a rider get injured, that property owner could be sued. This is why is is so important not to use private property for riding. Mr. Kelling said that Mr. Klemp must own or lease enough land in order to rent horses for riding. He could not consider this request with the roads being used as part of the trail. Also, this Board does not have the authority to grant permission for the use of private property. Mr. Karth asked how much land was available? Mr. Klemp said he didn't know exactly. This is something he must check. Mr. Karth felt that he should have at least 80 acres for this sort of an operation. Mr. L'Allier repeated that since the availability of land is in question, there is no question for this Board to consider. tlr. Kelling also felt that this Board could not make a recommendation until some of these questions are cleared. tlr. Harier felt that 1.) they will have to obtain more property - possibly 30 acres; 2.) it would be looked at more favorably if they owned the propety; and 3.) they must,have the proper liability insurance. Plans should be made so as to insure that riding on pri'vate property will be discontinued. Mr. Klemp thanked the Board for their time and advice. Mr. Robert Nelson appeared before the Board with a proposed development of the Neff property on Lake Drive North of Main Street. He asked the Board if there is any information as to the installation timetable for sewers in that area. He was told that sewering that area is in the 5 year plan but at the present, there is no definite answer to his question. He is talking of lots sized from .9 acre to 1.4 acre per lot. His plan is for homes in the $40,000.00 bracket. He questioned the installation of sewer in order to avoid the installation of onsite septic systems and having to rip them Page 3 out in a few years and put in sewers. He questioned the necessity of putting in the streets before a building permit can be issued. He felt that the homes shouldbe erected before the streets are constructed. This would avoid the ruining of streets by the heavy trucks delivering materials to construction sites. He would like to be able to put in the streets with a gravel surface until all the homes are built or a period of three years, whichever should come first. tz-------Y He was told that money for the construction of the streets could be put in Nelson that would 1the Mr. a son repeated he like to just gravelt e street s until the homes are in and sold or for a three year period, whichever came first. He felt that the blacktop streets would be destroyed by heavy trucks. if the homes are sold with this provision written into the contract, he could forsee no problems with such an arrangement. Mr. Karth suggested that Mr. Nelson get a copy of Ord. #51 and read it. Fir. L'Aliier felt that Mr. NelAen should contact Mr. Gotwald and Mr. Starr. Roads are only a part of the requirements for developing. Mr. Kelling felt that this Board had answered Mr. Nelson's questions as best as they could. Mr. Nelson hadn't received the answers that he was looking for but this is beyond the authority of this Board. Mr. Nelson should spend some time with Mr. Gotwald and Mr. Starr. They can assist him with the require- ments necessary for developing this land. Mr. Meyer,from Suburban Engineering, was here for approval of the installation of temporary utilities and a private driveway to the townhouse units in Country Lake. They would then rent these units. There was some discussion on the driveway with Mr. Meyer explaining that this is the only logical placement for this driveway. The Board wanted it understood that this is a private driveway and the maintenance and upkeep would be the responsibility of U. S. Lakes. Mr. Meyer said this was understood. Mr. L'Allier felt that it would be a better situation to have these units occupied than standing empty. He moved to recommend approval of this to the Council with the stipulation that this be considered a private drive- way until such time as a final plat is approved for that location. Seconded by Mr. Kelling. Motion carried. Mr. Anderson, from Hokah Brive, appeared before the Board seeking permission to operate a gun shop from his home. He would only sell new guns, mostly long guns, maybe a few hand guns, some ammunition for shotguns, no re- loading equipment, some accessories in the way of gun cases and such items. He has a Federal Firearms License. This shop would be on the lower level of his split entry home. He has not contacted the neighbors and has made no special security plans. He had appeared here for information as to where and how to start to obtain permission for such an operation. He was told that this would require a special use permit. Such forms can be obtained from the Clerk. The request would then require a hearing with all affected property owners being given a chance to object or approve. The Council would make a decision on the basis of this hearing. A special use permit would be issued for a period of time with the stipulation that Page If it could be revoked at any time the operation got out of hand. Mr. Anderson thanked the Board and said he would stop at the Clerk's office for the necessary forms. ttr. Herbst and Mr. Bowen brought their plans for the Amelia Lake area. There has been some revision of the original plans. Instead of three towers they now plan for only two. The original plans had called for 14 story towers with a resturant on the roof of one of the buildings. They now plan one tower ofll6 stories and one 12 stories and the roof top resturant has been moved to the ground level. Mr. Herbst said thay have funds available to start the development of this project. Mr. Karth reminded Mr. Herbst that. a development of that size would require sewers and there are no sewers in that area. Mr. Herbst said there are several alternate ways to service this area. One is through the White Bear interceptor another is a self contained system designed and built by Westinghouse. Mr. Herbst thought the self contained system was a . good system and would create no problems. He also said that P.U.D. plans such as these must be considered by the Metropolitan Council. Mr. L'Allier thought this would have to be cleared with the Rice Creek Watershed Board. Mr. Herbst said that he had already cleared this with that Board. He has also talked to the PCA, the MSC and several other agencies that must approve a project of this size. Mr. Karth said he would like to see this project built. He is not familar with the self contained system and would need more information on this system. Mr. Marier questioned a backup for a system such as this. Mr. Herbst said that all pumps and power systems have a back up power source. Thereason for his appearance at this meeting was to reacquaint the Planning and Toning Board with the project and to inform them of the changes that:hdd been made. He would like the feelings of this Board toward this project. If there are objections, he would like to know now before more money and time is spent. Mr. Karth asked, if this is built with a self contained system, would this affect the level of the lakes in that area? lir. Herbst said, No, most of the water is recycled and used in supporting systems. There are 420 living units planned with 141,000 square feet of commercial space. The land covers 27.4 acres. Mr. L'Allier said he would like to see this built but he would object to the height of the towers. This is a personal observation. He liked the concept and the general idea of the project. t1r. Kelling said he liked the idea but could not form a solid opinion on the feasibility of the project until he had seen the Engineer's and Planner's reports. Page 5 Mr. Hill felt it was a good idea but he would like more details as to the plans and specifications. Mr. Herbst said the sbops would be of the smaller type, not the large shopping center concept. There is a financial center, parking ramps, com- plete security living. The streets seemed to be adequate and the openings provided for entrance and exit seemed to be acceptable. Mr. L'Allier asked Mr. Marier what he thought the feelings of the Council would be on this project. Mr. Marier felt the first requirement would be to get the approvals of the various agencies in writing. He personally would like to see the towers on the South portion of the project instead of the Horth. He emphasized that this was his opinion. He didn't know if the height of the towers would be objectionai to the Council or not. Mr. L'Allier felt that the general concensus of this Board was that they liked the concept of the plan. Mr. Herbst should now contact the units of Metro Government necessary for approval and get these approvals in writing. These plans should be submitted to ttr. Gotwald and Mr. Starr for their recommendations before reappearing before this Board. He asked Mr. Herbst if there was a time table for completion. Mr. Herbst said construction was scheduled for completion in 1978. He thanked the Board for theit time. Mr. Marier asked Mr. Herbst what kind of rental were they talking about in the high rise units? Mr. Herbst said they had matte a survey and the rental would be in excess of $1,000..p00 per month in some of the larger units. Mr. Prokoo presented the Board with a petition signed by 2/3's of the property owners on Lakeview Aveeue in Otter Lake Mills. They would ask the City to bring this street up to City specifications in order for building permits to be issued. They understood that the cost of surfacing this street would be assessed against the grope ty owners along this street. There are only three owners; Mr. Proko9f, Mr. Reiling and Mr. LaBuda. Mr. LaBuda objects to this project. After some discussion of this situation, Mr. Kelling moved to recommend to the Council that serious consideration be given to this request. Seconded by Mr. L'Allier. Motion carried. Mr. Prokoppf asked for a copy of these minutes and asked if this would be heard at the next Council meeting and when that would be. The Clerk said she would mail him a copy of the minutes and Mr. Marier said this would be reported to the Council on June 24, 1974 during his report. The meeting will begin at 8:00 P.N. Page 6 Mr. Ramacher and Mr. Letendre from Skyline Auto Body appeared and asked for a special meeting of the Planning and Zoning Board in two weeks to consider an addition to their building. They want to expand their operation. The new building would be adjoining the present structure to the South. If they can utilize the framework left from the Able Systems temporary building, they will, if not, it will be removed. Mr. Karth felt that it would be hard to assure them of a quorum at a special meeting, especially now during vacations. There might not be time for the Engineer and Planner to get their recommendations back to the Clerk. He suggested they get their plans to the Clerk as soon as possible, she will mail to the Engineer and Planner and all things should be ready for the next Planning and Zoning Board meeting which will held on July 17, 1974. The plans then would be considereed the following Monday on July 22, 1974 at the regular Council meeting. The Clerk was asked to put them on the July agenda. Mr. Elmer Robinson had submitted an application for a sign permit for his sod fields. Since the setbacks were not noted on the application, Mr. L'Allier moved to recommend approval of this provided the proper setback regulations were followed. Seconded by Mr. !selling. Motion carried. The application of Mrs. Harriet Hill of Sunrise Avenue to park a 35' Dorsey semi trailer in her yard to be used for storage was discussed. Since this is overweight for anything covered under the Ordinance, Mr. Kelling moved to recommend denial of this request. Seconded by Mr. K411. Motion carried. There was a request for a variance for a property transfer from El Rehbein &Son to Lyle Carpenter. Thisis a strip of land behind Carpernter Auto Parts 40 feet by 166 feet. This is to allow Mr. Carpenter adequate 'mobility' behind the shop since the present line is restrictive. After some discussion and the maps were consulted, ;ir. Kelling moved to recommend approval of this variance request. Seconded by Mr. L'Allier. Motion carried. Mr. Clyde Rehbein had given the Clerk a copy of an original variance granted on the trade of land between Mr. Rehbein and Mr. Russell Bakken on land located in Section 8 bordering Lake Drive. The Planning and Zoning Board felt that this should be cleared by Mr. Locher. Mr. Kelling moved to refer this matter to the Attorney. Seconded by Mr.I'Allier. Motion carried. There was some discussion on the possible change of useat the MMTC. No one seened to have any positive information, just some speculation. Mr. Kelling moved to adjourn at 10:25 P.M. Seconded by Mr. Hill. Aye.