HomeMy WebLinkAbout07/16/1980 P&Z MinutesThe Regular meeting of the Lino Lakes Planning and Zoning Board was called to
order at 7:30 P.M. on July 16, 1980 by Acting Chairman Heath. Members present;
Prokop, Doocy, Schwankl. Absent; Reinert, Johnson, Bathke.
The minutes of June 18,1980 were considered. Mr. Heath asked that the minutes
.e amended to read that a motion was made to have the Attorney look into
changing the Ordinance on Special Use Permits with the idea that special use
permits should be different than actual zonings.
Mr. Doocy moved to approve as corrected. Seconded by Mr. Prokop. Motion
carried unanimously.
Mr. Bill Short was present to comment on Lakes Add. #7. Mr. Short said he
recommended this be considered as R3. This would be under #56C. He said he
analyzed as R5. He said he had reviewed as both R3 and R5. R5 would require
16,000 square feet - all lots qualify under this - the lot width is 150' at
building setback line and there are some that do not meet this requirement.
Basically these are lots located on cul -de -sacs. Mr. Short also indicated
there are some problem soils in this area that the developer should be aware
of. The parking is adequate Mr. Short said, although the park land dedication
had been satisfied for this land, thedeveloper should consider a small tot lot
for the use of just these units. Mr. Blackbird said they are considering
3 small swing set type tot lots.
Mr. Short questioned the utility line running thorugh the property - it is not
shown on the plat. He also questioned the lack of a storm water easement.
Mr. Short suggested that in areas such as this, there should be some pro-
visions for outside storage area.
The two major areas of concerns is the frontage of some of the lots and the
Oroning. Mr. Heath felt this will need to be resolved by the Council. Mr.
chumacher felt the type of zoning existing at the present time, it will allow
this type of construction.
The Enviornmental Assessment Worksheet was considered. Mr. Short said the
acceptance of this is the responsibility of the City Council. This must be
done prior to the final approval of this plat. Mr. Short had reviewed this
worksheet and his comments were a part of his letter to the Planning and
Zoning Board.
Mr. Blackbird commented on several of the points made by Mr. Short. Basically,
the discussion on this will be held until scheduled at 9:00 P.M.
The first item on the agenda was Mr. Rudy Tschida. He was not present. The
next item to be considered was a special use permit for Mr. Spetzman.
Mr. Johnson arrived at 8:10 P.M.
Mr. Spetzman questioned the need for a special use permit since the entire
three acres was zoned commercial. Mr. Schumacher explained that any time a
commercial building is constructed in an unsewered area, thare must be a special
use permit for the construction of the building.
This is to be a wood frame building with the inner walls sheet rocked. The
request as stated in the rezoning application had set forth a cement block
0 wilding. This building will have no running water and no need for septic
ystem and will be used for a transmission repair shop. There was some dis-
cussion on the possible pollution of the soils with the oil. Mr. Spetzman
felt this is not a danger.
Planning and Zoning
July 16, 1980
Page Two
There was discussion on the fact there is no water in the building and the
IIIwork involves flamable materials. Mr. Spetzman said there are fire extinguishe
cement floor and 5/8" sheet rock walls. He felt there is very little danger
of fire getting a start. Mr. Spetzman said there is always the possibility
of a fire but felt this has been considered and preparations made for this
possibility.
Mr. Johnson moved to recommend this special use permit be approved with the
stipulation that an outside storage be constructed and screened from Highway
#8. Mr. Doocy added this building to be inspected by the Building Inspector
and the Fire Marshall with an annual inspection prior to the annual review.
This was accepted by Mr. Johnson. The motion was seconded by Mrs. Schwankl.
Mr. Johnson restated his motion to recommend this special use permit be
approved with the stipulations that an adequate storage shed be erected
to shield outside storage to screen from Highway #8 and neighbors and that
the Building Inspector be instructed to take special note of the fire &
safety hazards. Seconded by Mrs. Schwankl. Motion carried unanimously...
Mr. Spetzman was told this will be before the Council on the 28th of July,
and he should plan to attend.
The next item on the agenda was a variance for Mr.David Kroona. Mayor Gourley
reported on the house proposed to be moved into the City. He said the house
was in excellent shape as to construction; the electrical and plumbing would
have to be inspected. The one problem was the house has only 816 Square feet.
IIIMayor Gourley said the area the house is proposed to be moved into has homes
of similar construction type. Pictures of the surrounding homes were presented
for the Board's consideration. Mayor Gourley said, if this house was to be
moved into a newer area, it would look out of place, but in this area the
house blends in perfectly. The proposed location is on Sunrise just South
of Rustic Lane. It will be put on a full basement and a double garage will
be moved in at a later date.
Mr. Doocy moved to recommend approval of the variance. Seconded by Mrs.
Schwankl. There was discussion as to the building inspector's comments on
this building and Mr. Schumacher said he had not heard any negative comments.
The motion carried unanimously.
The next item on the agenda was a variance for Stanley & Wendy Brown for the
moving of a house from on Main Street to a location on 77th Street East Highway
#8. Mayor Gourley reported this house contains 864 square feet and is a well
constructed home and all rooms meet City codes. The garage will not be moved.
This is to be moved into an area of housing mixtures and some are similar in
construction to this one.
This variance is for a lot split and a home that contains less than the
required square footage. There was some concern on an existing shed - the
general consensus was this shed would probably have to be moved. Mr. Prokop
moved to recommend approval of this variance to divide the lot according the
attached survey and to allow this house to be moved onto this lot. Seconded
by Mr. Johnson. Motion carried unanimously.
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The next item to be considered was a suggestion of Brian Dobie's for the splitt-
ing of Lots S & T and the rezoning of A & Q. Mr. Dobie proposed to combine
these two lots and then split them into three lots with at least the required
2 acres and more than the requiredfront footage.]
Planning and Zoning Meeting
July 16, 1980
Page Three
Mr. Dobie is asking for direction from this Board. The general consensus of
this Board was that they found no objections to this proposal.
Mr. Dobie's rezoning request was considered. He is asking a R2 zoning on
Tract Q & Tract A. These parcels contain 3 +acres. The lots are just off
Main Street and Mr. Dobie felt this would be a good buffer for the residential
area. The types of soils in this area was discussed as was the topog.
Mrs. Schwankl moved to recommend to the Council the rezoning on Tract A & Q
be granted from R1 to R2. Seconded by Mr. Prokop. Motion carried unanmioulsly.
The public hearing on this matter will be set by the Council.
A recess was called at this point in time. The meeting was reconvened and
the plat of Lakes Add. #7 was next on the agenda.
Mr. Heath presented the comments of Mr. Short that had been made earlier in
the meeting.
Mr. Heath asked Mr. Schumacher if this Board is to deal with this as a
feasibility plat or is this a preliminary plat? Mr. Schumacher said this is
a preliminary plat.
Mr. Johnson said that when the area was originally platted, it is true this
was designed for townhouses, but, at that time there was also an 18 hole golf
course, marina, nature trail, etc., which lowered the density figure. In 1973
Mr. Jandric replatted the back 9 holes of the golf course into single family
lots and according to Mr. Johnson, Mr. Jandric has said, "if he was allowed to
eveloped this portion of the golf course into single family lots, he would
remove the townhouses" and according to Mr. Johnson, this was so designated
on the plats. Mr. Johnson said this plat was never approved because the owners
in the arekinstituted a law suit against Mr. Jandric and the area was never
developed.
Mr. Johnson presented some figures for the computations of density - he had
consulted with Shoreview and North Saint Paul, and they use census and current
occupancy in similar construction. They found that in a 2 bedroom unit the
average is 3.3 people and a 3 bedroom unit, the average is 4.0 people and
the maximum is 14 quad per acre - about 12 people per acre. The plat as pre-
sented averages out to approximately 18.6 people per acre.
Mr. Johnson presented some reasons why this type of construction was denied
in Shoreview. He also pointed out a denial in Maplewood and presented their
reason. He also cited an area near Lake Elmo that is having a problem with
water - this is being blamed on an area that had been allowed to develop and
run -off is flooding a lower area.
Someone asked about the drainage - would this be planned so as not to cause
problems in the existing area? Mr. Schumacher reminded the Board that all
plats must be cleared by the RCWB, this is their responsibility.
The letter from Carley Engineering was read in reference to this plat. Mr.
Blackbird agreed there are corrections to be made but they are minor. Mr.
.Blackbird said there are many projects that have been approved with a higher
density than planned in this area.
Mr. Blackbird pointed out that this /had been specifically issued a special use
permit at the time of platting to avoid this very problem that was occuring
now would be avoided.
Planning and Zoning Board
July 16, 1980
Page Four
Mr. Busch, Mr. Jandric's Attorney had made specific note of this in the
IIImeeting at the time the special use permits had been issued to the outlots.
Mr. Cody asked if a plat had ever been accepted and filed for those outlots?
He had a letter stating that the file had never been filed. Mr. Cody said
that a special use permit cannot be used as a rezone tool, there must be a
rezoning with a public hearing. He presented a copy of a case -
Mr.Johnson asked Mr. Blackbird, if when the final plat is presented, will the
bedrooms be noted and Mr. Blackbird said, Yes, this is just a sketch.
Mr. Benson presented some figures as to the selling prices of comparable homes
in the area. He asked how these units could be sold for the figure Mr.
Blackbird had quoted and Mr. Blackbird said, probably due to land costs.
Mr. Alt, owner of the duplex, said there is 5 people living in his unit and
felt that they were crowded. He felt this was a big unit for a small parcel
of land.
There was discussion on the amount of green area in the area and Mr. Black-
bird said the City requires 35%.
One person said he got the impression that Mr. Blackbird had a mandate from
the Council and that he is going ahead with this project regardless of what
this Board say. Mr. Blackbird said the he is complying with the Ordinances.
That his firm had bought the land and had submitted a plat. The person asked
where this left the Planning and Board and Mr. Heath said he didn't know what
•theY were supposed to do or what their options were.
Mr. Cody felt that local government should represent existing residents and
it would seem this City Council is not doing that. The unidentified person
said it would appear to him the Council is representing the people who have
not even moved in the area.
Another resident made a suggestion, that before this goes to the courts, that
3 or 4 Attorneys be contacted to sort this out. He felt legal advise was
needed and more than the City Attorney could give.
Mr. Johnson pointed out that Mr. Locher had ruled that the special use permit
was still valid and could be develop subject to approval >of a plat.
Mr. Benson said he had looked at the Comprehensive Land Use Plan and felt
this area had been designated as single family residences. He felt that
this Board was to represent the people who oppose this development.
Mr. Johnson said he had talked to an appraiser that the construction of quads
would depreciate their property and that the current owner of adjacent pro-
perty could sue.
Mr. Heath said the Board must take some action and he asked what their actions
should be. Mr. Schumacher explained
IIIMr. Schumacher said this is a preliminary plat and should be handled as such.
There are recommendations of the Planner and Engineer to be considered.
Mr. Johnson asked how the density was figured - he said he didn't know how
Mr. Balckbird got his figures. He felt the subject of density should be
looked into.
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Planning and Zoning
July 16, 1980
Page Five
Mr. Prokop moved the preliminary plat be rejected for the reasons
•specified in Mr. Short's letter of 7/15/80. Items 3 -4 -6 -7 -8 -& 9, plus
the EAW has not be provided, the plat does not specify the number of bedrooms
in order to compute the estimated density of the area and until such time as
those issues be settled, this Planning and Zoning Board cannot take action on
this plat.
Mrs. Schwankl asked if bedrooms need to be shown on a preliminary plat?
The'. motion was seconded by Mr. Johnson. Mr. Prokop felt that the density
problem is such that this is necessaryCNfor the plat`'to be considered.
Mr. Schumacher said this is a good point but he felt some direction should be
given to the deveoper in order for him to have something to work with rather
than leaving the issue blank.
Mr.Johnson repeated his information on the quads as allowed in North Saint
Paul and Maplewood.
Mr. Doocy asked if the motion was passed, would this prevent Mx. Blackbird from coming
tothe next meeting with a revised plat? He was told, No. The motion carried
with a 3 to I vote.
Mr. Prokop was confused on the special use permits. He pointed out that a
special use permit is issued to the property and not to the person. Mr. Prokop
said the Council had said they had never held a hearing to cancel a special
use permit, but there had been a special use permit cancelled in 1973. Mr.
411 Prokop understand that the Council in 1970 said this special use permit was
not valid until the plat was filed. Mr. Prokop wanted to review the whold
ten year period of this subject.
Mr. Johnson said this special permit is valid according to the City Attorney
and, at this point in time, that is what this Board has to work with.
Mr. Prokop moved that the Planning and Zoning request the Council to review
this whold ten year history of this particular piece of property. Seconded
by Mr. Doocy. He noted that at each meeting on this subject, it seems that
more information is brought forward. Motion carried unanimously.
Mr. Prokop asked if the Planning and Zoning Board has any information on the
review of the existing special use permits? Mayor Gourley said these are
being considered by the Council at this time. Mr. Prokop said he would like
a list of the existing special use permits.
Mr. Rudy Tschida had not arrived. Mr. Heath asked about the Krysinski's
special use permit to sell used cars - this had been tabled, but he is still
selling used cars - what is the status of this? Mr. Schumacher said he had
received some plans but they had been inomplete and he had returned them to
the applicant for completion.
Jerry Carlson, 6808 E. Sandow Lake Drive. - He asked if there was any designa-
tion for Outlot F? Mr. Johnson said this is NSP property - and they had
"'proposed to give this to the City, but, at this point in time the City has
not accepted.
Mr.Heath asked for Council action report from Mr. Schumacher. Mr. Schumacher
said all the action is in the minutes, unless someone had a specific question.
Mr. Prokop moved to adjourn. Seconded by Mr. Johnson. Aye.