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Appearing to discuss the new ordinance regulating amusement devices were Sam Nilva, National Amusement Company, 3591 Glenhurst, who owns the machines in Apache Plaza Ball and Jerry Schiena, 2821 Hilldale Avenue N.E., of St. Anthony Lanes. Mr. Nilva said he had operated amusement devices at Apache for the past 15 years and had never received a complaint about misbehavior of children who used such machines. He opposed the provision in the ordinance which would require more than 10 of such devices to be placed in a specific center with supervision provided for that center. Ile felt isolating the machines would result in a "pool hall atmosphere" which would encourage the patronage of a disruptive class of juveniles. He said such a center in the basement of Apache had to be discontinued for just that reason. The 23 electronic games and 7 rides provided by Mr. Nilva in the mall area are now supervised by the security guard, provided by the Apache management for sur- veillance of the center. Councilman Sundland arrived at 7:55 P.M. Louis Chiodo, 3001 Silver Lake Road, former security guard for Apache, agreed with fir. Nilva. Rather than being called to the shopping Center to answer complaints about juveniles using the games, the City police answered complaints regarding the "elements in the bowl- ing alley below the mall or shoplifters at Montgomery Flr_rd". He contended that police had never been called because of intimidation of the shopping center's customers by youths who play the devices. In an effort to establish the respectability of his electronic amusement devices, fir. Nilva cited numerous civic organizations, churches, hospitals and motels who use his machines as well as shop- ping centers where such devices are not confined to one area. He said he had already refused to provide devices for the roller rink which had been proposed for the building just vacated by the flea market. Councilman Stauffer agreed with his assumption that the rides might be supervised by the parents of the youngsters who patronized them but said that left the other 23 electronic devices which are played by juveniles to a large extent unsupervised. fir. Shiena then wondered if the 10 machines whicl, include a pool table in operation in his bowling alley would constitute a center under the new ordinance and was told the pool table came under separate licensing. He also questioned the wisdom of the provision in the ordinance which would prohibit the transfer of licenses from. one machine to another and that was one of the points which Council members will consider in further study of the ordinance before the second reading at the November 23rd Council meeting. The Manager said the Police Department would have a representative present at that meeting to comment on the reasons they had recommended the new ordinance. (2)